For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[Majestic_Jazz]

wow this thread is just full of butt hurt people, what a joke these forums have become.

 

I think this pretty much sums up the replies to this thread. In the end, many people are upset that Bioware decided to focus on story with KotFE and they are the loudest. I am not going to let them ruin my enjoyment because I know MANY people that I talk to in chat in game that cannot wait for KotFE and they are only subscribers because of the new expansion.

 

People are just irked about story so that they will throw out anything or dismiss anything that contradicts their belief that story/solo play is not what people want in SWTOR. I bet you that if KotFE was Ops/PvP based expansion and James Ohlen came out and said, "We decided to focus on Ops and PvP for this new expansion because based off of our metrics, most people tend to play/focus on Ops and PvP related content" If this was the case I wonder how many people would be claiming that Bioware only sees what they want to see when it comes to metrics? I wonder how many people would dismiss Bioware's use/reliance on metrics then? I would predict that most people here wouldn't because the metrics align with their beliefs which is that most people don't care about story and only want to do group related content. Thats all it boils down to. Oh, the metrics do not justify my opinion so therefore the metrics must be wrong! Yeah....okay....

 

I'll say it again, at the end of the day the only thing EA cares about is making money. If they find out that people want to play as unicorns on a planet full of rainbows and butterflies, if that is what the data/community/focus groups is telling them....then by all means the next expansion would feature unicorn mounts and sending players to a new planet full of.....rainbows and butterflies. So this conspiracy theory that EA and Bioware just wants to troll the consumers and degrade their own game for the lulz by focusing on story and ignore other parts is just ludicrous.

 

Second, people act like Bioware and EA wants SWTOR to be the #1 MMO of all time. Yes, I believe that prior to launch, EA and Bioware was betting hard on the idea that SWTOR could leapfrog WoW and become the world's most popular MMO with months and months of millions of subscribers and all the like. However, around early 2012, a BIG drop off of subscribers occurred and Bioware/EA was humbled. Ever since then, they have been trying to find their place within the market. So instead of focusing on total domination of the MMO genre which is where they were back in 2008-2011, now they are just looking for a niche that they can exploit and be profitable. That niche is casual/cross-over MMO/Single Player RPG gamers....those gamers that probably never will play a traditional MMO but may give SWTOR a look because it appeals to them in a way that Mass Effect, Fallout, or Dragon Age may appeal to them in terms of story, characters, choice, and adventure all while also hosting MMO features such as OPS, Economy, and Warzones. In a way, SWTOR really isn't a true MMO but rather a hybrid of the single player RPG genre and that of the MMO genre.

 

Third, people want to question the decision of Bioware/EA to focus on single player for the next 12-18 months and they question how they will be able to retain subscribers. Well, it is simple, they are releasing the story content over a period of 12 months or so. We are going to get a large batch at launch and starting in early 2016, we would get regular updates (chapters) to the story that continues our adventure. These updates could possibly even be monthly! And in the meantime, there will still be Warzones for people to play in and there will still be OPS for people to do.

 

Finally, Bioware nor EA never said that story/solo play will be the main focus for SWTOR going forward. Go find me a quote where they said that! No, they only said that with KotFE and the next 10-12 months or so would be an endeavor of good ole Bioware cinematic storytelling with choice. They never said that there will never ever be new OPSs or Warzones, just that they aren't the focus right now. Who knows, after satisfying the solo player crowd, 2017 could be the year of the PvP or year of the Raiders. Who knows, 2017 could be the year where they try to focus more on the MMO bits of SWTOR and put the solo play in the backseat for a while. Point is, we do not know but what we do know is that Bioware never said they are done with the MMO bits as they continously say that SWTOR still at heart is a MMO and that they will still continue to look to support such features. It seems that people tend to ignore that and only focus on the doom and gloom that KotFE will bring because it doesn't have new OPS or Warzones.

 

 

Fact is, I am looking at this from a glass have full and not half empty. People since the open beta back in November 2011 have been claiming the death of SWTOR and yet 4 years later, it still endures. Does it have the massive numbers that it did back in early 2012? No, but why does that have to be a measuring stick for success? KOTOR never sold millions and millions and millions of units the same way Skyrim did or the same way GTA5 did or how Fallout 4 will, so does that make KOTOR any less of a game? People, SWTOR does not have to have WoW subscriber numbers to be a success or to be profitable. EA just invested a butt load of money into a blur trailer for KotFE which means they have some disposable money laying around. If SWTOR was such a failure and is holding EA back, I doubt KotFE would have gotten the introduction that it has. Obviously SWTOR is profitable enough for EA for them to warrant such an investment.

 

 

But you know what, who cares what I say, people have already made up their minds and they will continue to be subscribers to SWTOR just so that they can continue to predict the failure of SWTOR, a failure that has said to come in 2012....no 2013.....no I mean 2014.....oh wait, I guess it is 2015......no I am totally wrong, 2016 will be the year.....or could it be 2017?

 

You guys keep guessing while I go back to playing SWTOR and enjoying my time. Hopefully you guys can find something in life you can enjoy to.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Majestic_Jazz

[Glower]

For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

This is MMORPG, well used to be. I don't care what their fancy metrics says. MMORPG without new PvE or PvP content is not a normal MMO, it's just a multiplayer game or a session based game.

[Majestic_Jazz]

This is MMORPG, well used to be. I don't care what their fancy metrics says. MMORPG without new PvE or PvP content is not a normal MMO, it's just a multiplayer game or a session based game.

 

Have you perhaps considered the idea that maybe EA is positioning SWTOR as not a traditional MMORPG but rather a hybrid MMORPG with single player elements?

 

And again, if this bothers you, why subscribe?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Majestic_Jazz

[Beakertanks]

Have you perhaps considered the idea that maybe EA is positioning SWTOR as not a traditional MMORPG but rather a hybrid MMORPG with single player elements?

 

And again, if this bothers you, why subscribe?

 

Isn't that kind of the point?

 

Your argument is that the game has hung on for years with people predicting the death of the game. IF THEY RADICALLY CHANGE THE GAME THIS NEGATES THAT ARGUMENT. The bottom line is that it hung on as it existed. If they change the paradigm then the subscription paradigm will change. You and BW are hoping that the focus on story will bring in a lot of new people. Enough to offset the losses due to the lack of group content. Looking at the threads, what makes you think that is going to happen?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Beakertanks

[Majestic_Jazz]

Isn't that kind of the point?

 

Your argument is that the game has hung on for years with people predicting the death of the game. IF THEY RADICALLY CHANGE THE GAME THIS NEGATES THAT ARGUMENT. The bottom line is that it hung on as it existed. If they change the paradigm then the subscription paradigm will change. You and BW are hoping that the focus on story will bring in a lot of new people. Enough to offset the losses due to the lack of group content. Looking at the threads, what makes you think that is going to happen?

 

Also read https://torcommunity.com/database/update-previews/858-kotfe-companion-compendium

 

For those that love the story part of this game.... prepare to be disappointed. Unless you all hate your Love interests and like Skadge a ton.

 

Sigh, I cannot wait for KotFE to come out so that the cry babies can leave and a new batch of solo-minded players can come in.

 

When did Bioware ever say that SWTOR will NEVER focus on PvP or OPS again? No, they never said that. The only thing they said was that with this coming expansion, it will be solo based. But whos to say that the next expansion will not be PvP based or OPS based? Or group-focused based?

 

People just want to throw anything out there to complain about because they are upset that KotFE does not appeal to their play type.

[Beakertanks]

Sigh, I cannot wait for KotFE to come out so that the cry babies can leave and a new batch of solo-minded players can come in.

 

When did Bioware ever say that SWTOR will NEVER focus on PvP or OPS again? No, they never said that. The only thing they said was that with this coming expansion, it will be solo based. But whos to say that the next expansion will not be PvP based or OPS based? Or group-focused based?

 

People just want to throw anything out there to complain about because they are upset that KotFE does not appeal to their play type.

 

You mean like the time they said waiting over a year for new ops was a bad idea and they were not gonna do that again? Until I see a timeline I don't trust anything BW says.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Beakertanks

[Majestic_Jazz]

You mean like the time they said waiting over a year for new ops was a bad idea and they were not gonna do that again? Until I see a timeline I don't trust anything BW says.

 

Also. You read the article?

 

You don't trust anything BW says and yet you subscribe to their product?

[mrsrachelm]

The OP has it exactly right. Plus, it's not like group content is going away. It will still be there for those who want it just like the FP's for SoR are both solo and group versions. Story is what the majority of SWTOR players want. We don't want a carbon copy of raid-centric, PvP-centric content at higher levels where all it is is going from one raid or battleground to the next ad nausea doing the gear grind. While I understand that's what some folks want, there are a TON of MMO's out there to cater to that. SWTOR is taking an innovative approach and appealing to a different audience which has been largely ignored in most other games once they get to end-game material. Frankly, I applaud this new direction that takes SWTOR away from the stereotypical "grind, grind, and more grind" and even further into story, immersion, etc. It's one of the FEW who really can say that and it's nice to know there is an truely story-driven MMO to play. Edited August 15, 2015 by mrsrachelm

[FerkWork]

Green

 

You choose..... Wisely:rak_03:

[mrsrachelm]

You may enjoy running the same story for the 22nd time but its ultra boring and reminds me of the Forged Alliance quest that you drags out until you ding 60.

 

Those who think paying £9 a month for a 1-2 hour cut scene special needs their heads testing - seriously.

 

 

And the difference between "running the same story for the 22nd time" and raiding the same top end raids or PvP'g over and over and over over and over to gear grind is what exactly? Seriously. Just because the main focus of the game isn't on raiding or PvP progression? That's just a horse of another color and in SWTOR, they are focusing on story...thank god.

Edited August 15, 2015 by mrsrachelm

[Kakisback]

Screw the story casuals, cater to hardcore mmoers. I love SW lore and single rpgs, but that is not what this game should be about.

[Majestic_Jazz]

And the difference between "running the same story for the 22nd time" and raiding the same top end raids or PvP'g over and over and over over and over to gear grind is what exactly? Seriously. Just because the main focus of the game isn't on raiding or PvP progression? That's just a horse of another color and in SWTOR, they are focusing on story...thank god.

 

Great reply!!

[Canareth]

Screw the story casuals, cater to hardcore mmoers. I love SW lore and single rpgs, but that is not what this game should be about.

 

They clearly think they can make more money off the former than they can off the latter.

[Diviciacus]

I thought that I just point that out.

 

And in refutation, I'd like to point out that their metrics are biased.

 

There's virtually relevant Ops content at level 60 (Both TOS and Rav can be done on story mode in under an hour combined), and PvP (prior to the 3.3 changes to equipment costs) had the steepest barrier to entry I've ever seen for something game-related in any game ever.

 

Making very little content to do, or making it virtually impossible (and/or massively discouraging) to do the content there is does not count as "people are not doing Ops/PvP." Sorry. It's like trying to sell a car with no wheels. "Why aren't people buying my car?" Because the effort required to make it do what a car is supposed to do is greater than their desire to have your car. They'll either walk, or buy someone else's car.

 

Gamers will either not do PvP/Ops (what their metrics show) - or they'll play another game. The Devs aren't smart enough to ask WHY the metrics show what they do. They're treating the symptoms, not the disease.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Diviciacus

[Jeweledleah]

And in refutation, I'd like to point out that their metrics are biased.

 

There's virtually no Ops content (Both TOS and Rav can be done on story mode in under an hour combined) at level 60, and PvP prior to the 3.3 changes to equipment costs had the steepest barrier to entry I've ever seen something game-related in any game ever.

 

Making very little content to do, or making it virtually impossible (and/or massively discouraging) to do content does not count as "people are not doing Ops/PvP." Sorry.

 

this!. consider also that figuring out bolster can be confusing to people not scouring various online guides. and that we haven't had anything new pvpwise in... over a year at least? well other then slightly recolored rewards for ranked.... yeah

[Glower]

Have you perhaps considered the idea that maybe EA is positioning SWTOR as not a traditional MMORPG but rather a hybrid MMORPG with single player elements?

 

And again, if this bothers you, why subscribe?

 

Why subscribe? Because i love the core part of SWTOR? And after 4.0 this core can be transformed into something weird...

Edited August 15, 2015 by Glower

[Glower]

And the difference between "running the same story for the 22nd time" and raiding the same top end raids or PvP'g over and over and over over and over to gear grind is what exactly? Seriously. Just because the main focus of the game isn't on raiding or PvP progression? That's just a horse of another color and in SWTOR, they are focusing on story...thank god.

 

I think it's obvious - solo content vs raid groups with real players or pvp against them is the difference...

[Nefla]

I have to wonder why hardcore MMO players who hate story and BioWare story and character driven RPGs are even playing this game, the story has always been the focus and the selling point.

[Kurkina]

Have you perhaps considered the idea that maybe EA is positioning SWTOR as not a traditional MMORPG but rather a hybrid MMORPG with single player elements?

 

And again, if this bothers you, why subscribe?

 

Certainly that IS what they are doing, and therein lies the risk. If too many people ask themselves the very question that you stated, the game will lose a huge load of subscribers and suffer. Not right away, launch will surely bring in numbers. But half a year, 8 months later, when content is barely trickling out, people may wonder why they are subscribing.

 

I believe that it is therefore in the best interest of those who DO like to the story to ALSO urge BW to diversify their content releases. If the game remains relatively diverse (as it has been up until now), more people will find their niche playing style, more people will subscribe, the game remains healthy and everybody wins.

 

Last point, with regards to a new and bold move in "positioning SWTOR as a hybrid", that's fine and well, BW can try whatever they want. But in that case, I think they should also try a new business model. "Testing out" whether people will still play full subscription price for a game that no longer offers support and updates of the elements which other full subscription price games offer might backfire on them.

 

I think KotFE was a perfect opportunity for them to change the game to a Buy-to-Play model. Pay $50 up-front for KotFE, but drop the subscription model completely (and keep the cartel market, of course).

[Kurkina]

Sigh, I cannot wait for KotFE to come out so that the cry babies can leave and a new batch of solo-minded players can come in.

 

FACEBOOK. You and those that think this way are a product of the facebook generation. Everyone is SO connected, but completely alone.

 

And the difference between "running the same story for the 22nd time" and raiding the same top end raids or PvP'g over and over and over over and over to gear grind is what exactly?

 

Player interaction. I run Ops repeatedly not only for the content, but for the Ops group itself. We have been together for nearly 2 years and have a good time together. The Ops is our "Pub" or bar where we get together twice a week. The beer is OK, mind you, but it is not THE reason we go there.

[DarthSabreth]

To be honest I really like what BW did with SOR xpack. I almost never did any of the FPS when I leveled Pre SOR because getting a group was a pain and in some cases we never finished for one reason or other so I never got to see all of the content. by having a solo option allowed me to see all of the content. its not game breaking because they don't give any special gear except lvling gear for that lvl.

 

I have friends that I play with and I am in a very good guild but having the ability to hop into any instance I want solo gives me another option to keep myself happy. This Xpack was the first time I saw all of the FP story lines and when they allow for solo mode ops it takes that to a hole new level. It wont effect anyone because it wont reward high level OP gear.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

This is what James Ohlen, the Game Director for SWTOR had to say in regards to why Bioware has begun to really key in on solo play story with KotFE, Shadow of Revan, and even the new solo-mode ops coming with 4.0

 

 

 

For many who are sour that Bioware is focusing too much on story and making this mostly a solo-player experience at the cost to the fans, well, that simply isn't true because Mr. Ohlen just said that not only have players within the community been asking for more story but based off of how a majority of the players play SWTOR, it isn't the OPS, Flashpoints, GSF, or Warzones that people play the most, it is the level 1-50 class stories!

 

So for those who think that this is another mistake that Bioware is taking with SWTOR and that people will leave this game in droves because of the focus on solo play, then you are wrong. In fact, this expansion will satisfy a majority of their player base! In fact, the only reason why I am here and back as a subscriber is because I am excited for this new solo-friendly approach to SWTOR and while waiting for KotFE, I am leveling up a few characters that I will import into KotFE later this year.

 

I thought that I just point that out.

 

Did it ever occur to you that people rerun alts constantly as there is so little endgame content?

 

If their metrics are correct, and one has to always raise an eyebrow at BWs interpretation of their own statistics, the real question needs to be, why are people having to rerun the same content over and over, at the expense of anything more fun for them to do once they hit level cap.

Edited August 16, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Jeweledleah]

To be honest I really like what BW did with SOR xpack. I almost never did any of the FPS when I leveled Pre SOR because getting a group was a pain and in some cases we never finished for one reason or other so I never got to see all of the content. by having a solo option allowed me to see all of the content. its not game breaking because they don't give any special gear except lvling gear for that lvl.

 

I have friends that I play with and I am in a very good guild but having the ability to hop into any instance I want solo gives me another option to keep myself happy. This Xpack was the first time I saw all of the FP story lines and when they allow for solo mode ops it takes that to a hole new level. It wont effect anyone because it wont reward high level OP gear.

 

I'm ALL for solo modes. if solo modes allow more people to see content, that also means there's higher chance of there being group versions of that content. hell, I would be the first to cheer if they make it possible to run simplified ops with npc's instead of a group of other humans. I would just like some new group content is all, you know to go with that story that I cannot repeat once I'm done.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[ivanhedgehog]

Did it ever occur to you that people rerun alts constantly as there is so little endgame content?

 

If their metrics are correct, and one has to always raise an eyebrow at BWs interpretation of their own statistics, the real question needs to be, why are people having to rerun the same content over and over, at the expense of anything more fun for them to do once they hit level cap.

 

as a wise man said, "there are 3 kinds of lies..Lies, damn lies and statistics" metrics say what you want them to say. if you are honest with your search criteria, you will get honest results, if you are looking for self justification, thats what you will get.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Also, much of the current end game content is gated behind inconvenient measures.

 

Lockouts.

Enforced/Encouraged 'too large' guilds that discourage use of various group finders so queuing can take too long.

PVP Queueing issues because a lack of cross server play..

 

ETC.

 

Limitations based on devs not listening to players for _years_ about what dissatisfied them while devs happily pushed out stuff customers said they didn't want/need.

 

When I am sitting, waiting, in a queue I am going to do something.. anything.. to pass the time. All the game activities are relatively boring at cap when you are sitting/waiting... so you're either going to run dailies until your eyes bleed, or you're going to say screw it and make an alt and level them and put them in queues for pvp or Fp's or whatever so at least you can feel like you are doing something different and productive with your time.

 

Imam still surprised that this company absorbed so many people associated with Mythic/DAoC and couldn't not see the potential of the Galactic Conflict™ and instead went with the stupid WoW model of PVP.

 

This last misstep will likely be their last for me. I'll give it a go once, but I am already disappointed because the game they are making is NOT the game I have been paying for since release.