For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You know what would be interesting? If they released those metrics that they used, in their entirety. You know why they won't? Not because of some coorporate secret, but because then the statistically inclined among us could take those numbers and make them verifiably show whatever we wanted, just like they did.

 

Tin foil hat much.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

-snip-

 

A post based on so many assumptions and numbers you just don't have yet Bioware do. Who is more likely ot be right in their conclusions, you and your assumptions or Bioware and their actual hard data?

 

Your talk of how long people play for etc. almost seems to come across as though Bioware never took this in to consideration but yet you have and you're here to show them the error of their ways ... with numbers you don't have ... maybe I'm just interpreting whatever point you are trying to make wrong.

 

So true. Numbers are just numbers...they don't tell the story behind them.

 

Depends on the numbers, how accurate they are, if they took in all possible different types of possible scenarios and what they could mean etc. etc. For example Pagy's post - did they take all that into consideration or did they not? We'll never know but with the amount of data they have access to I would think they probably had more than enough of the story behind them to make a well educated decision.

 

As to why don't they share them ( more to the previous poster than you ), why would they? Here is the decision they are making, here is what you are getting, in the future they're also going to do this ( ops/fps ). If people don't like that then it is what it is and they need make a decision on their sub based on what suits them. Seeing the numbers aren't going to change anything is it?

 

So people can say "Hah told you so! You can't analyse this data anywhere near as good as I can from my computer chair!" and unsub anyway or continue to spout on doom n gloom. It would change nothing.

[Mewan]

No doubt metrics would point to story being the main thing players do in Swtor. It is also the main reason I came back. But the simple truth is metrics point to story being the main activity because everything else in the game was so poorly done. I prefer PVP in MMO's, in Tor world pvp is non existent due to being so instanced and warzones quite simply suck after a couple hours of playing. The game can't even handle more then 10 players fighting in the same area, pvp is torture with lag. Once I finish the main story of every class and the new expansion, I plan to put the game down for a while. Should line up perfect with Battlefront, I'm sure many others have the same plan.

[Mewan]

how does one classify a player?

one who is a sub? f2p?

one that logs in at least once a month? a week? a year?

while i dont think that end-game raiders or end-game pvpers make up a sizeable portion of a game's playerbase, they make up a sizeable portion of the game's "very active" playerbase. these are people that log a lot of hours.

for an mmo to survive, it requires a healthy, consistent population.

if you look at number and types of players, you can't automatically put more value on the greater segments; they are players that play only a couple hours a month.

how does one weigh the value of the minority that log A LOT of hours that compose a larger portion of the population in fleet, instances at any given time?

 

EAware giving us more solo story? ok, i'm sure it will be fun. it will be shorter than I think they want us to believe, but it will be fun. but providing no pvp content and no ops content is completely unacceptable, esp given the mmo options out there. they are repeating mistakes of the past. without endgame content, people leave.

their lack of information lends credence to the whole "this is a marketing ploy to keep players subbed as long as possible before the patch lands" viewpoint.

 

Exactly what is wrong with this game. It directly stems from the game being on rails so much compared to a more open sandbox style. The first max exodus was when players hit level 50 and got bored, pvp was so neglected that the PVP servers went extinct. Now they are excluding not only PVP players but also players that play for OPS. No doubt after the new content is completed there will be another exodus because the rail style system of this game won't entertain anyone once all of the stories are completed. With the new Star Wars movies coming out, one would think TOR could benefit from it but I doubt players will stick around. Would love to see a new Star Wars MMO off the new movie time line with a little better balance than TOR but one could only dream.

[Hockaday]

No doubt metrics would point to story being the main thing players do in Swtor. It is also the main reason I came back. But the simple truth is metrics point to story being the main activity because everything else in the game was so poorly done. I prefer PVP in MMO's, in Tor world pvp is non existent due to being so instanced and warzones quite simply suck after a couple hours of playing. The game can't even handle more then 10 players fighting in the same area, pvp is torture with lag. Once I finish the main story of every class and the new expansion, I plan to put the game down for a while. Should line up perfect with Battlefront, I'm sure many others have the same plan.

 

...this...this is a you issue. Not saying there aren't further optimizations that could be made etc...but I mean...I do 16m raids fine, pvp has 16 people in it, I've done 20 plus world bosses...it's a you thing.

[Soultranna]

Ok, show of hands:

 

How many solo'd their class missions, before the 12x XP?

 

How many habitually press 'space' to abort dialogue?

 

How many run flashpoints, or ops? How many PvP? and of those, how many go with pick-up teams as opposed to premade groups? How many actually use Group Finder?

 

How many get characters to 50 without getting many Social Points, or changing Social tiers?

 

This is the kind of datamining that the devs can look at and say, "hey look, people solo this stuff more than they group up. We have a lot of people on server X who skip the dialogue, but most of server Y does not, even on the second or third pass thru the same material."

 

It's not just 'what you say' that determines these decisions, it's 'how you play'.

[Ghisallo]

Ok, show of hands:

 

How many solo'd their class missions, before the 12x XP?

 

How many habitually press 'space' to abort dialogue?

 

How many run flashpoints, or ops? How many PvP? and of those, how many go with pick-up teams as opposed to premade groups? How many actually use Group Finder?

 

How many get characters to 50 without getting many Social Points, or changing Social tiers?

 

This is the kind of datamining that the devs can look at and say, "hey look, people solo this stuff more than they group up. We have a lot of people on server X who skip the dialogue, but most of server Y does not, even on the second or third pass thru the same material."

 

It's not just 'what you say' that determines these decisions, it's 'how you play'.

 

Actually it's not the kind of data mining that devs look at. The datamining they are looking at has to do with the actual logs they generate. They get INSANE amounts of information. Enough information just from their logs that Psychology departments regularly contact MMORG games for copies of logs to look at social and psychological dynamics (though many companies won't release the data). As an example http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2009/02/aaas-60tb-of-behavioral-data-the-everquest-2-server-logs/

 

What you are asking for amount to a straw poll which notoriously has issues in terms of reliability. As a matter of fact that study showed something rather relevant to your "straw poll"

 

...The example highlights the risk of using self-reporting for behavioral studies and the potential of the virtual world data....

Edited August 22, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Derat]

Just tried to pvp as a healer. Got the "new" huttball map. So I'm on the middle floor but the names of people getting killed on the bottom floor are lit up like they are in range, Try to heal "Cannot see target" Next guy, try to heal "Cannot see target". I quit because I can't stand hutball but that map as a healer is a GFYS from Bioware. I re-que after 30 or so seconds, thrown back into same match, quit and log on to a lowbee toon to level.

 

Metrics say I hate PVP and LOVE story right?

Edited August 22, 2015 by Derat

[Kurkina]

All I am saying is "this is not about any current player, story or end game fan. So do not expect this to become a Single Player RPG because they are going to make new end.game content. This expac is about attracting and maintaining new player BUT there is a risk that in focus on this they annoy enough current players to do some damage"

 

For those who still cannot see and accept this very basic point, you need to examine more than just your own perspective on this issue.

 

And if it's 40 hours? 80 hours?

 

If there is that much playing time (for a single character) in the entirety of the KotFE story, I will eat my hat. But there is nothing to indicate that there will be, given the Rishi-->Yavin-->Ziost progression. Also, if it was being planned on such a large scale, if would be reasonable to expect BW to be trumpeting this everywhere, which they are not. They have been somewhat vague about how much content there is, I think because there isn't that much.

 

Still I find it funny you bought 6 months sub when there was less "new" content around and decide to quit when they announce more new content. When you bought that sub were they promising you any new end game content?

 

I pay to play with friends in my guild.

 

I'm not of the opinion that anyone in these threads is intellectually superior or inferior. We're just talking. Maybe you should examine the source of this emotive outburst. BUT ... Yes, I do believe that BW is pulling the wool over people's eyes. The reason that those people cannot see that is because they've had the wool pulled over their eyes.

 

Maybe read what you just wrote and you'll see exactly how you come across as trying to put yourself as somehow intellectually superior "You all have the wool pulled over yours eyes but I don't, I see the truth!"

 

Yep, that's how it is. I still don't mean to make it sound like I am superior in any way or that anyone who disagrees with me is inferior. That is not my point, I am not railing against people on these formus, I am not mocking anyone for having the wool pulled over their eyes. I am upset with BW for pulling the wool over people's eyes blatantly and openly with base marketing/advertising propaganda and simply assuming that everyone will fall to their feet waiting for but a drop of that sweet BW nectar, an hour of which here and there will nourish us for eternity, or at least for a year. Well I'm calling them (BW) out on it, in hopes that more will do so as well in hopes that they will be more open as to the direction that they are taking the game and who they are marketing it towards.

[Kurkina]

Who is more likely ot be right in their conclusions, you and your assumptions or Bioware and their actual hard data?

 

This is just blind apologism. You could stand to adopt a little more or a survivalist approach and ask yourself why are you so vehemently supporting BW? What do you have to gain from defending them? Certainly not a better game.

 

Menace sorry, but all your arguments can be boiled down to "because they (BW) said so". Many people here are trying to analyze not what they said, but why they said it. That is where the discussion gets interesting, when examining the motivations behind BW's vague statemtents. If you continuously return the discussion to the level of BW's superficial statements, suggesting that they should be accepted at face value as absolutes, we get nowhere.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Kurkina

[Derat]

^ this

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If there is that much playing time (for a single character) in the entirety of the KotFE story, I will eat my hat. But there is nothing to indicate that there will be, given the Rishi-->Yavin-->Ziost progression. Also, if it was being planned on such a large scale, if would be reasonable to expect BW to be trumpeting this everywhere, which they are not. They have been somewhat vague about how much content there is, I think because there isn't that much.

 

Well I was initially talking the first 9 chapters we get ( you did say 3 months ) and assumed you meant that with your rather obviously understated "12 hour" comment. Thinking they say at least 1 hour of story content per chapter ( that's not game play, just the dialogue and cutscenes ) we get 9 hours so I was thinking 20-30 hours for the first 9 chapters played at an average speed seemed feasible ( there is a whole other topic on this somewhere, no point in going too in depth in this topic really and repeating everything that's been said ) but now you say the entirety of KoTFE which would be all 16 chapters ... that 40 hours looks easily obtainable.

Is it one of those hipster hats out of curiosity? I always wanted to see one of those guys eat one of those.

 

I pay to play with friends in my guild.

 

Ah and they're all quitting come KoTFE and share your opinion? That would make my point valid for an entire guild if that's the case. Nice one heh.

 

 

Yep, that's how it is.

 

Right because everyone is wrong and you are right. Mmmm hipster hat.

 

The rest of your post is just opinionated ranting, not really worth justifying with a response.

 

This is just blind apologism. You could stand to adopt a little more or a survivalist approach and ask yourself why are you so vehemently supporting BW? What do you have to gain from defending them? Certainly not a better game.

 

No it's apologism, not blind apologism because I was trying to state they are far more likely to be correct in their decision making based on the data they have to work with as opposed to you and your "I think this is how it is thus it must be this way" attitude.

I support them because I like their product, I get sooo much for the money I pay. You really need to question if you are soo dissatisfied with them and truly think so little of their company and their techniques then why are you not only wasting money but now you're wasting time trying to accomplish exactly what on these forums?

 

Is it to convince them to somehow change their ways and do things differently? Newsflash - we the forum users are a highly vocal minority.

They don't really give a **** what we think unless there was actually consensus amongst all posters, they care about what their data analysis and market studies probably tell them.

As for consensus there is certainly no consensus supporting your view, in all the topics like this there seem to be more people in support of KoTFE than against it. Even quite a few against the "no new ops" are still in favour of KoTFE but quite disappointed with the lack of new ops, fair enough, they're entitled to feel that way as are you to feel the way you feel.

 

However your problem is you seem to be on some sort of holy crusade to show the masses they are being blinded and fooled by Bioware. It's almost as though you are trying to tell me I don't actually enjoy the game, I don't actually get my monies worth, it's all in my imagination because Bioware are somehow brain washing me into thinking this.

 

Heck not only me but everyone who basically is supportive of the direction BW are taking this game, we are all but sheep but your superior self knows the truth and can set us free if we would only but listen to the points your trying to make right?

 

Funnily enough to me at least it's that sort of attitude that basically makes me not take anything you have to say seriously because it just comes across as crazed conspiracy theory. Maybe if you had some sort of facts to back up anything you said it would be viable but alas you're just yet another misguided crusader mistaking their misguided opinion for some sort of righteous fact ... there is no facts here, there aren't the facts you're looking for. Move along.

[Kurkina]

but now you say the entirety of KoTFE which would be all 16 chapters ... that 40 hours looks easily obtainable.

 

My bet is that there will not be 40 hours of gameplay (cut scenes + questing) in the entirety of KotFE once it is finished. I would put real money on that. Of course I might be completely wrong, but that is my position, we'll have to wait and see. If there is indeed, yeah, i'll eat my hat, but ...

 

Is it one of those hipster hats out of curiosity? I always wanted to see one of those guys eat one of those.

 

... nope, it's a baseball cap.

 

Right because everyone is wrong and you are right.

 

Those who cannot tell that they are being "had" by BW and vehemently defend the company's actions are not necessarily wrong, they are victims to BW's propaganda machine. However, it is unfortunate that those same people, even after BW is challenged by others, are not able to go beyond the argument that "BW said so".

 

No it's apologism, not blind apologism because I was trying to state they are far more likely to be correct in their decision making based on the data they have to work with

 

This is where you just "don't see it". You have absolutely no logical reason for believing that, escpecially if you refuse to examine BW's motivation for releasing the type of information they do and the style that they do it in.

 

I get sooo much for the money I pay.

 

I urge everyone who thinks this (as of KotFE) to strongly reconsider their stance. You are not getting the class quests, those are free. You are not getting RotHC, Oricon, and SoR, the investment-in-development and return-on-investment cycles for those products are over. For your one month's subscription fee you are getting the opening chapters of KotFE, and beyond that, nothing, for several months at least, until they will being to spoon feed us the rest of the story. This is not value, this is preposterous.

 

Is it to convince them to somehow change their ways and do things differently? Newsflash - we the forum users are a highly vocal minority. They don't really give a **** what we think unless there was actually consensus amongst all posters, they care about what their data analysis and market studies probably tell them.

 

Actually, yes, that is what I am trying to accomplish. What are you trying to accomplish? This is what is still baffling to me.

 

As for consensus there is certainly no consensus supporting your view, in all the topics like this there seem to be more people in support of KoTFE than against it.

 

Slave-Master paradigm or a modern variation thereof, I won't bore people with that here but anyone interested can look it up, there is plenty of material on the subject.

 

However your problem is you seem to be on some sort of holy crusade to show the masses they are being blinded and fooled by Bioware. It's almost as though you are trying to tell me I don't actually enjoy the game, I don't actually get my monies worth, it's all in my imagination because Bioware are somehow brain washing me into thinking this.

 

Yep, this is my motivation. And I ask again, what's yours? A small adjustment of your statement though, I'm not saying people don't enjoy the game, but I am saying that we are not getting value for the money we are paying when SWTOR is taken in the context of the broader MMO landscape. This is one of the few MMOs left that runs a full-subscription model, but what subscribers "get" is a joke compared to other much less expensive models.

 

we are all but sheep but your superior self knows the truth and can set us free if we would only but listen to the points your trying to make right?

 

I answer only because you put a question mark at the end of the sentance and am assuming this is not a rhetorical question. Those that take BW's statements at face value and do not question the motivation and intention behind those statements are indeed "sheep" in that they have been brainwashed into complacency by BW's rhetoric. Again, you are constantly reducing the argument to "BW said so". This is not an "opinion", this is servility.

 

(snippets)

crazed conspiracy theory ... facts to back up anything ... misguided crusader ... there is no facts here

 

All of these things will be proven right or wrong or somewhere in between as the lifespan of KotFE unfolds. But to simply sit back and take whatever BW says at face value and without question should be against the nature of any consumer who is being asked to invest into something, especially when dealing with such a paradigm shift as there is in KotFE. We should be asking questions and getting answers (from BW). When those answers are not forthcoming, it begs further questions and an analysis of BW's motivations.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Kurkina

[Draqsko]

We who? We the minority? If they cater to a majority and get them doing ops and things like that they've never done before and GROWS the PVE community then it's beneficial not negative.

I get it, it doesn't cater to YOU, cut this we crap.

 

But it really won't grow the PVE community as much as you imagine, here is why.

 

This game has been dumbed down quite a bit, especially with 12xp and solo mode flashpoints. It'll be even more so with the xpac. New players will not get the skills they need to perform in operations until they actually start operations and that is a bad thing.

 

On top of it, the entire expansion is focus on drawing in single player, solo mode types. Do you really think those people care much about operations that are going to be tough? Right now I can get them interested in that content because I can run them through easier operations at level 50, and 55 instead of forcing them to take a big bite all at once in Rav/TOS. They die a few times always, and even if you clear a lot of times they don't feel like they were useful and decide Ops is not for them.

 

If you were a raid leader, you would have seen it at the tail end of 2.x, and seen it hit hard in 3.0. Anyone who has any experience putting groups together will tell you that when 4.0 comes out it is going to get ugly, really ugly, before it has a chance to get better. Like I said in another post, it's all going to hinge on how quickly BW can fix bugs with the new system, but let's not kid ourselves it will have issues at launch and how long those issues remain will determine how much this works. If it's like SoR was, it will kill PVE in this game at a high level.

[Draqsko]

Well I was initially talking the first 9 chapters we get ( you did say 3 months ) and assumed you meant that with your rather obviously understated "12 hour" comment. Thinking they say at least 1 hour of story content per chapter ( that's not game play, just the dialogue and cutscenes ) we get 9 hours so I was thinking 20-30 hours for the first 9 chapters played at an average speed seemed feasible ( there is a whole other topic on this somewhere, no point in going too in depth in this topic really and repeating everything that's been said ) but now you say the entirety of KoTFE which would be all 16 chapters ... that 40 hours looks easily obtainable.

Is it one of those hipster hats out of curiosity? I always wanted to see one of those guys eat one of those.

 

You might be the one eating crow. They've already said 1 hour of cutscenes per chapter, now I want you to compare all of the content in this game versus the cutscene length and tell me how 9 hours of cutscenes results in 40 hours of gameplay when the vast majority of the story quests in this game do not take as long as the cutscenes to do. Also, that 9 hours of cutscene length can be considerably less when you factor in "choices matter." Because if choices matter, then each permutation of choice results in a separate branching path such that some cutscenes you'll never see on a particular play through depending on choice.

 

I'll give you an example:

You have 1 conversation tree in a chapter that has 3 branches with 3 options at each branch. That's 27 different permutations for the results of that chapter. Let's say they say there's an hour of cutscenes in that chapter. Well in your play through you'll only see about 7 minutes of cutscenes assuming all paths are of equal length. Even if it takes you an hour to do all the quest content, which is actually more than Yavin or Ziost, that's still only an hour to play that chapter.

 

I figure 10 hours in Oct, and 10 hours spread out along the releases next year, it's a reasonable expectation given the development time they've had, especially when you consider the amount of subsystems they are reworking. Really that's the thing that everyone is ignoring, how much of the old content they are having to rework. Those resources have to come from somewhere, and those resources would have been resources they spent on Operations and new Flashpoints in 4.0 instead if they weren't doing that. The story content will probably be no more than RotHC in length. They haven't doubled their staff, so you can't expect them to double their output.

[Ghisallo]

This is just blind apologism. You could stand to adopt a little more or a survivalist approach and ask yourself why are you so vehemently supporting BW? What do you have to gain from defending them? Certainly not a better game.

 

Menace sorry, but all your arguments can be boiled down to "because they (BW) said so". Many people here are trying to analyze not what they said, but why they said it. That is where the discussion gets interesting, when examining the motivations behind BW's vague statemtents. If you continuously return the discussion to the level of BW's superficial statements, suggesting that they should be accepted at face value as absolutes, we get nowhere.

 

The thing is that doing so acknowledges a fact, that BW is making a gamble. If none are their statements are founded, even if only partially, in marketing PR and are actual 100% fact then all is well, there is no gamble.

 

What makes me crazy is lets say it was 100% fact. Then why make all the contradictory statements and actions? To top it off I think we have seen enough angst around here, as well as simply knowing MMORPG dynamics in general, to see that the fact based numbers they used were GROSSLY misinterpreted. One factor that lent to my theory on the expac is that I give BW credit for intelligence and that it more likely the ONE single statement is marketing hype, otherwise they are a confused, directionless company.

 

As for the 40-80 hours I think people are exaggerating something because they are confusing then and now.

First They saw the talk about 1 hour of cut scenes and assume that also equals game play. If BW has proven anything they have proven that when they GO BIG on story stuff it can take more time than the playable content.

 

Second, i believe, they are thinking of all the side quests in the "old" game. Well BW said they were streamlining the leveling process. The way they explained it is that 12x do is going to be the baseline for leveling as such for a subscriber 12xp will not be necessary. As such side quests will not be necessary. The game is basically going to become, virtually, a single track game. This is also going to annoy a lot of the pure story fans I know. They got increasingly annoyed at the absence of side quests because they want to be immersed in the Star Wars Universe and many of those side quests existed exactly for that purpose. They give you insight into the world beyond what is directly impacting your character in the "main story."

 

Tbh of the story bit the only thing that will actually take a lot of time and money is the QA on the decision with consequences bit, you have to make sure they are consistent. With all the stat, gear and general mechanics changes, the rescaling of old content etc. and the lack of side quests the playable content is appreciably shorter than the cut scene portion because the same teams that would be making the playable content work are the ones doing the redesign and this is a PROFOUND mechanical redesign for the benefit of attracting new players. Basically we are looking at Ziost on steroids.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Elracor]

You might be the one eating crow. They've already said 1 hour of cutscenes per chapter, now I want you to compare all of the content in this game versus the cutscene length and tell me how 9 hours of cutscenes results in 40 hours of gameplay when the vast majority of the story quests in this game do not take as long as the cutscenes to do. Also, that 9 hours of cutscene length can be considerably less when you factor in "choices matter." Because if choices matter, then each permutation of choice results in a separate branching path such that some cutscenes you'll never see on a particular play through depending on choice.

 

Which actual story missions have shorter gameplay than cutscenes? I cannot think of any (except a couple that don't give XP) and especially not if you also consider travelling time here.

Edited August 22, 2015 by MFollin

[Max_Killjoy]

Which actual story missions have shorter gameplay than cutscenes? I cannot think of any (except a couple that don't give XP) and especially not if you also consider travelling time here.

 

That's what I was wondering as well... even with faster travel these days (no QT cooldown, free speeders for everyone, etc...), most missions take longer in travel time than the cutscene, let alone actually doing them.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Ghisallo]

That's what I was wondering as well... even with faster travel these days (no QT cooldown, free speeders for everyone, etc...), most missions take longer in travel time than the cutscene, let alone actually doing them.

 

SoR had a couple and Ziost narrowed it even more. Note the way I look at it is as follows. A chapter is Intro cut scene>adventure>concluding cust scene. As they are parts of the same whole intro+conclusion are counted together.

 

With that said next take in mind their statement that they are streamlining the leveling process. Next look at the fact each hour has an hour of cut scene. If base exp gain is basically the equivalent of x12 exp (for a subscriber) Faster leveling by definition results in less playable content per chapter. If it doesn't then you would level the whopping 5 levls WELL before the final chapter of the story and leveling is one of the main Pavlovian motivators in an MMO to keep people playing and thus paying.

[Elracor]

SoR had a couple and Ziost narrowed it even more. Note the way I look at it is as follows. A chapter is Intro cut scene>adventure>concluding cust scene. As they are parts of the same whole intro+conclusion are counted together.

 

With that said next take in mind their statement that they are streamlining the leveling process. Next look at the fact each hour has an hour of cut scene. If base exp gain is basically the equivalent of x12 exp (for a subscriber) Faster leveling by definition results in less playable content per chapter. If it doesn't then you would level the whopping 5 levls WELL before the final chapter of the story and leveling is one of the main Pavlovian motivators in an MMO to keep people playing and thus paying.

 

The "streamlining" they mentioned only refers to the original class stories, 1 to 50-55. They'll most likely be removing 12xp but change the planets/story mission so each mission has less/no grindy parts and more focus on story.

 

They said they wanted leveling from 1 to 50 to be more like the length of KOTOR, which I guess is like 30-50 hours compared to the current 150-200 hours it can be for non-subs (and the what, 8-15 hours for 12XP?).

Edited August 22, 2015 by MFollin

[Draqsko]

Which actual story missions have shorter gameplay than cutscenes? I cannot think of any (except a couple that don't give XP) and especially not if you also consider travelling time here.

 

I don't know about you but.. I spent more time in cutscenes than doing Yavin or Ziost quests. Rishi took a little longer than the cutscene content because you had quite a bit of backtracking. Part of their streamlining old quests is narrowing down the amount of backtracking you had to do since most of that was involved in the side quests, so I imagine the new expansion will have very little backtracking as a time sink in it as well.

 

The actual combat or quest objects? You don't know quest grinding in this game because its never had the level of grind that other games have, even Tera which is pretty good and recently streamlined since FOA still requires about twice the kills for quest completion than SWTOR and it was a lot more than that a year ago in Tera. If they are eliminating pointless time sinks in the old content, why would they add new ones in the new content?

[Elracor]

I don't know about you but.. I spent more time in cutscenes than doing Yavin or Ziost quests. Rishi took a little longer than the cutscene content because you had quite a bit of backtracking. Part of their streamlining old quests is narrowing down the amount of backtracking you had to do since most of that was involved in the side quests, so I imagine the new expansion will have very little backtracking as a time sink in it as well.

 

Yavin cutscenes:

 

That video clocks in at 22 minutes of cutscenes for Yavin. There's absolutely no way you'd complete the Yavin content in 22 minutes.

 

Ziost cutscenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37S8AdPnSOs

 

Ziost cutscenes lasts about 29 minutes. Ziost content is probably doable in that amount of time unless you count the dailies too.

 

If they are eliminating pointless time sinks in the old content, why would they add new ones in the new content?

 

We'll have to wait and see. I agree that they won't be adding much/any grindy bits to KotFE but surely there has to be some gameplay - if nothing else then at least some tutorial'ish content to cater to the new players who go straight in with a fresh lvl 60 character.

Edited August 22, 2015 by MFollin

[Krikos]

My question is, Some of your guild or just some players get together for the new Fallen content, they will have to do the new content over and over for each player in the group? or will they have a option of one time for group?........

 

And god help the player who has like 14+ plus toons to run thru the new content. lol

[Draqsko]

Yavin cutscenes:

 

That video clocks in at 22 minutes of cutscenes for Yavin. There's absolutely no way you'd complete the Yavin content in 22 minutes.

 

You must be counting the dailies in it or something, because the main story line on Yavin is 3 quests and you spend more time watching the related cutscenes than actually doing those quests.

 

The Enemy Within has two ways of doing it, via Ops or via solo weekly method. IF they actually gave all those dailies a cutscene instead of making them like a terminal, the cutscene length would be much longer than the quest length. If you do not believe me go look up the original Belsavis daily and that is the kind of length of cutscene versus daily content it would have been had they actually did cutscenes for it.

[Draqsko]

My question is, Some of your guild or just some players get together for the new Fallen content, they will have to do the new content over and over for each player in the group? or will they have a option of one time for group?........

 

And god help the player who has like 14+ plus toons to run thru the new content. lol

 

It will be like everyone has the same class in the 1-50 content. All instanced areas will have to be done once per group member since only one member can advance in the story at the time. All non-instanced content will advance normally.