annabethchase Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 So, as strongly suggested by Bioware, I've begun playing ranked since 3.3. I have my gear and 4 years of practice and no more excuses not to play. The pool of players is as big as it's going to get so I should no longer be "dragging others down" if I'm not a gold tier player. However, that's not at all what I'm experiencing. Now instead of gear, people judge instead by your dps in round 1 and start the same hate speech. Aproximately, aren't all 4 of us equal ability more or less since the ELO system put us together? What makes you think it's ok to insult everyone who is trying to participate and expect the community to grow enough to ever get more PvP development.? Bioware said this was the fix to get higher participation, but you'll scare everyone away, again, if you keep acting the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 1.) Its always been like that. If your dps is low people are going to get pissy. Not having gear just made it worse. 2.) That's how ELO is supposed to work. Too bad for us ELO doesn't work correctly in this game due to the population being way too small for a rated scene on a single server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teclado Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Eh, don't worry about it. It's just an RP thing that pvpers do: they like to pretend that they are the best ever and the only reason that they lose is because of everybody else. Here is what you can do. When you enter the warzone, assert your dominance as the best elite PvP RPer by insulting everybody's choice of hair color. If the toons are wearing head coverings, exclaim that they are so ugly that they don't even want to show their faces. If bald...just conveniently ignore saying anything about them - they are extra sensitive. If you do these things, they will accept you as one of their own and everything will go more smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Eh, don't worry about it. It's just an RP thing that pvpers do: they like to pretend that they are the best ever and the only reason that they lose is because of everybody else. The truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Chambers Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Even if what they're saying is true, they're just going about it the wrong way. Are you doing really low dps? Not that you should stop queuing, but to make it more enjoyable for yourself try to always look for areas to improve upon, even in wins. Though, I do encounter so many people who believe that having full dark reaver is supposed to grant you like insane boosts over what your gear normally was, and it's not rly true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmarantKando Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) Ranked is/should be for the top of the notch pvpers that want to test their skills against eachother. If you are not skilled enough you shouldnt queue for ranked and just keep training in regs. Ofcourse I dont know what happened in your match, but if you do terrible dps then your team has all the right to get angry at you.. And like Jake_Chambers said, try to look at area's to improve in. But try to do this in regs, not in ranked. Edited August 13, 2015 by AmarantKando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aniajan Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 The problem is that even on the most populated servers during primetime, there are rarely more than 3 games open at the same time. That is way to low to bring together players of roughly the same skill, particularly given faction imbalance. At the same time, ranked really is endgame PvP and there are so many people hopping into it currently (thanks to 3.3) that I can totally understand the frustration of everyone that takes ranked really serious. If you are out there to win and get as high a ranking as possible, there are just many games where you have no real chance of winning due to the composition of your team. Bads are just gonna be bads. There is nothing anyone can do. It is not even specific to PvP. Bads in PvE are even more prevalent, you just have more tools to avoid them. Really the only way to change the situation is make ELO work and that just necessitates a higher population. I played on TRE, ToFN and T3-M4 this season. During primetime, I figure there would be a combined 10+ games open. Maybe 12. If you combine that with the other European servers (which I have no knowledge about) I think that would create a sufficient player pool to alleviate the problems with ELO. Regarding the community/manners aspect: I usually don't flame too much and consider anyone who does it childish and not very likable. But then, I don't care about my rating too much - whether I am at 1100 or 1400 or above any of the given thresholds. There are just too many factors involved that I cannot influence for me to care and I don't play enough games to even it out. Pulling a character out of ELO hell (where you get grouped with the worst bads continuously) is futile anyways. At the same time, I consider not being willing to put a decent amount of preparation into playing ranked offensive, too. If you don't have stim, medpacks, grenades etc on you, that is just downright indefensible. The same goes for augments. If you then go out and get stomped in your first few games of ranked, that is fine. But you have to be willing to learn and improve. If you were a clicker, start to key bind. Start to use new skills that you don't necessarily have to use earlier (stuns, roots, slows, mezzes). Obviously not everybody is going to be a really good player. Many people (including myself) are going to stay mediocre. But aspiring that is the minimum I consider not to be offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmst Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I was always wondering why people keep saying that PVP population is elitist and toxic. Have you tried pugging a HM op when your tanks got no idea about boss tactics, dps pull horrendous numbers, healers cant keep tank alive through scripted burst damage and you either wipe right away or hit enrage back to back 10 times? Every time you trying to get into ops (i mean current content ofc) ppl asking you for achievement and gear. So why would you expect to hop into yolo during season and get carried without having any idea how to focus target, peel, avoid being globaled, offheal, skank tank etc? The community is toxic regardless whether it is pve or pvp. People just dont like bad players who are there for the weekly. Start taking ranked seriously, admit your mistakes and you will notice that the amount of foul language towards you will drop drastically. Alot of times i raged at some PT who got globaled every single game while doing 5k damage. Then he whispered me and told that he s really sorry that he let our team down and asked for advice - how to kite, how to use his dcd's properly - the basic stuff. I felt uncomfortable that i raged at him at first and gave the guy some tips. Can't say he became stellar but at least he s pulling his weight better now. Problem is the part of population that is terrible and does no effort to become better. That zones in in the hopes of getting carried or thinking that "Ok, so what if i lose 99\100 of my games, i will still grind enough tokens for some bronze title in the end". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Actually, the issue with 3.3 and people not queuing as much is the lack of rewards. The season rewards list is out and if you don't like the rewards there is no reason to play ranked, since all we get is tokens for gear you may not even want. BW did a great thing by lowering the cost of the gear, and then mucked it up by not rewarding players properly for playing ranked by removing wz comms. Now you can play a lot of ranked and not be able to even make use of the legacy lockboxes that were just put in. Once they put wz comms back in, ranked will be played again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGblazed Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Because pple who play ranked need to be told they are good for thier home life is horrible. So they want praise in this GAME. They think they are the elite. These are the same pple who must have a premade to win regs. And then when they lose, we are considered reg stars. These are the same pple who sit on fleet telling everyone to QUEUE UP REGS.. just so they can get on the other faction and sync que. What can you do? Ignore button= win in any mmo. But I still get qued with them. All that you can do is play your game in solo ranked. If you enjoy pvp, then Dont Do Solo-Ranked. Save yourself the headache or take every loss with a grain of salt its a game ment to be enjoyed not hated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flintfire Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Because pple who play ranked need to be told they are good for thier home life is horrible. So they want praise in this GAME. They think they are the elite. I just want the rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopijkee Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) Solo ranked arena = Normal wz but arena = Typical public casual match like in every other online game Nothing similiar with competetive gameplay Just take it easy Edited August 13, 2015 by kopijkee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmarantKando Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) A lot of times i raged at some PT who got globaled every single game while doing 5k damage. Then he whispered me and told that he s really sorry that he let our team down and asked for advice - how to kite, how to use his dcd's properly - the basic stuff. I felt uncomfortable that i raged at him at first and gave the guy some tips. Can't say he became stellar but at least he s pulling his weight better now. Problem is the part of population that is terrible and does no effort to become better. That zones in in the hopes of getting carried or thinking that "Ok, so what if i lose 99\100 of my games, i will still grind enough tokens for some bronze title in the end". This is exactly how it works. Edited August 13, 2015 by AmarantKando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Chambers Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 This is exactly how it works. But at the same time, would you feel comfortable asking someone for help that just took you apart verbally in front of others? I mean unless you know the person who is to say the one asking for advice is worse than the one giving it. Maybe if reg matches have same rewards as a win or loss people wouldn't feel so compelled to need to win every match and would learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmarantKando Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) But at the same time, would you feel comfortable asking someone for help that just took you apart verbally in front of others? I mean unless you know the person who is to say the one asking for advice is worse than the one giving it. If you want to become better you must not be afraid to ask others for help. And if you dont want to ask help from some guy that just cursed at you, there are still enough people on the fleet who can give you advice. A big problem I see with a lot of bad players is that they dont realise that they are actually bad, and that they dont want to improve themselves / listen to advice. If you can set that aside and just use the advice and ask for help to improve yourself where needed, then nobody will hate on you . Edited August 13, 2015 by AmarantKando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlightlySychotic Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Ranked is/should be for the top of the notch pvpers that want to test their skills against eachother. If you are not skilled enough you shouldnt queue for ranked and just keep training in regs. Ofcourse I dont know what happened in your match, but if you do terrible dps then your team has all the right to get angry at you.. And like Jake_Chambers said, try to look at area's to improve in. But try to do this in regs, not in ranked. 1) Ranked is where everyone who regularly plays PvP progress to. If it were just for the elite there'd be no form of matchmaking beyond role-balancing. 2) The only way to get better at ranked is to play more ranked. Playing regs to get better at ranked arenas is like playing solitaire to get better at poker. Anyway, even with the changes I lasted about a week before I started looking for other things to do. What's that Mitch Hedburg bit about how quitting smoking is the same as starting flossing? I just can't stand arenas: even winning feels bad. I'd rather just not play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDiggler Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) Ranked is/should be for the top of the notch pvpers that want to test their skills against eachother. If you are not skilled enough you shouldnt queue for ranked and just keep training in regs. Ofcourse I dont know what happened in your match, but if you do terrible dps then your team has all the right to get angry at you.. And like Jake_Chambers said, try to look at area's to improve in. But try to do this in regs, not in ranked. What is amusing about this post is that top notch "PVPERS" left SWTOR years ago. The flock you have now cant really be considered anything close to that. Most renown pvpers have moved on to MOBAs and other "SKILL" based pvp games. Also on one breath PVPers will cry about lack of ranked player based, Que sync, and MM'er while running off anyone new to ranked which is self defeating. Edited August 13, 2015 by DirtyDiggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavrinDosa Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 1) Ranked is where everyone who regularly plays PvP progress to. If it were just for the elite there'd be no form of matchmaking beyond role-balancing. 2) The only way to get better at ranked is to play more ranked. Playing regs to get better at ranked arenas is like playing solitaire to get better at poker. Anyway, even with the changes I lasted about a week before I started looking for other things to do. What's that Mitch Hedburg bit about how quitting smoking is the same as starting flossing? I just can't stand arenas: even winning feels bad. I'd rather just not play. Woooo preach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) Ranked is/should be for the top of the notch pvpers that want to test their skills against eachother.. good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read this, b/c I'd have spit it up when I burst out laughing. ranked is the place where you go for the best of the best. but solo ranked? c'mmon man. there's a reason ppl do solo ranked: team ranked is hard. if you're not the team that always wins, then you're the team that always loses to the team that always wins. but calling solo ranked the place where top notch pvpers go to test their skills is a joke. it is what it is: a middling tier that's the next step up from regs and the only form of pvp with role matched teams. it's not even close to the competition of grp, and the ppl that honestly believe it's the place for "top notch pvpers" need their heads examined. it's a good measure of one's (and one's AC's) ability to carry, but it is not high end pvp. expect that players show up prepared with stims, andrenals and augs. expect nothing else. Edited August 13, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRogue Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Here is what you can do. When you enter the warzone, assert your dominance as the best elite PvP RPer by insulting everybody's choice of hair color. If the toons are wearing head coverings, exclaim that they are so ugly that they don't even want to show their faces. If bald...just conveniently ignore saying anything about them - they are extra sensitive. If you do these things, they will accept you as one of their own and everything will go more smoothly. ^ROFL Wow, maybe I should try that. lol Ranked is/should be for the top of the notch pvpers that want to test their skills against each other. If you are not skilled enough you shouldnt queue for ranked and just keep training in regs. Ofcourse I dont know what happened in your match, but if you do terrible dps then your team has all the right to get angry at you.. And like Jake_Chambers said, try to look at area's to improve in. But try to do this in regs, not in ranked. Incorrect Amarant. You can not train for ranked by playing Regs. You can be number one in damage/heals/protection in a regular, get in a ranked match & be destroyed instantly. No your team does not have the right to be angry at you. Especially when they're cussing you, telling you to stop queuing, etc...A lot of which borders on harassment. Especially if they continue to whisper you after the match ends or start trashing you in fleet. How are you to improve your playing in Ranked, when in regs? Again you can't train for ranked in regs. It's a totally different play style in ranked than regs. Regs you have objectives, 7 other people on a team, very little to no communication needed unless guarding. Ranked matches you have 3 others on a team, you MUST communicate if you want to win, they're extremely fast paced, and you must have constant awareness of you, your team mates & the opposing team. If you play ranked you should know this. I was always wondering why people keep saying that PVP population is elitist and toxic. Have you tried pugging a HM op when your tanks got no idea about boss tactics, dps pull horrendous numbers, healers cant keep tank alive through scripted burst damage and you either wipe right away or hit enrage back to back 10 times? HM OPs is a totally different subject than ranked PvP, especially if you're pugging it. That's a discussion for another time. Every time you trying to get into ops (i mean current content ofc) ppl asking you for achievement and gear. So why would you expect to hop into yolo during season and get carried without having any idea how to focus target, peel, avoid being globaled, offheal, skank tank etc? That's where there is a difference in PvE/OPs running & ranked. You can learn to play your class via guides, watch all the fights & learn the mechanics in PvE. In PvP you have none of that basically. There is no set of guides for PvP. Nor builds. There is no set of mechanics to follow. You have to think fast, on your feet or get destroyed in seconds. The community is toxic regardless whether it is pve or pvp. People just dont like bad players who are there for the weekly. Start taking ranked seriously, admit your mistakes and you will notice that the amount of foul language towards you will drop drastically. HAHA That's highly amusing. You really don't play ranked PvP much, do you? You can be taking ranked as serious as possible & get flamed left & right. Admitting your mistakes while is correct, for most in ranked just feeds their attacks. The language will keep coming. Even if you improve you will still get it. Alot of times i raged at some PT who got globaled every single game while doing 5k damage. Then he whispered me and told that he s really sorry that he let our team down and asked for advice - how to kite, how to use his dcd's properly - the basic stuff. I felt uncomfortable that i raged at him at first and gave the guy some tips. Can't say he became stellar but at least he s pulling his weight better now. You're nicer than most RPvPers then. When I was struggling last season to pull better dps, I was harassed, belittled, name smeared in chat. Asking for help was a no no. *smh* It was not like I was on purpose trying to pull low dps too. I was searching on how to play, etc... If you want to become better you must not be afraid to ask others for help. And if you dont want to ask help from some guy that just cursed at you, there are still enough people on the fleet who can give you advice. A big problem I see with a lot of bad players is that they dont realise that they are actually bad, and that they dont want to improve themselves / listen to advice. If you can set that aside and just use the advice and ask for help to improve yourself where needed, then nobody will hate on you . Read above Amarant. If you ask for help in PvPing for ranked, you will instead be dissed, attacked, and belittled. And why on earth would ask someone who just cursed at you in the match?? I will agree some people think they're the best, when they're not & need to listen to advice. But that also goes the other way. Offer advice, instead of instantly attacking or trashing them. But I've run into a lot of ranked PvPers who think they're the best, will attack you for doing low DPS, but for some reason no matter how you get grouped if you're in their group you will lose. They will blame it on you, but when you can run a decent match & win, then next match you're with them again, you lose...That seems to tell me that even though they are pulling high(er) dps, they're not team playing. 2) The only way to get better at ranked is to play more ranked. Playing regs to get better at ranked arenas is like playing solitaire to get better at poker.[/u][/b] ^THIS! So much. There is so much double standards in ranked, it is not funny. You get globalled & die, you're trash. But let one of them get globalled & oh it's lag, this, or that, etc...Blame game. It's pathetic & wrong. In the end this is just a game; it's for entertainment/enjoyment. While you want to take it seriously for better your playing, so that you don't bring others down, if when you leave a match you're upset because you're trying hard & they're harassing you, that's wrong! Your rank means NOTHING in real life. In a year no one will even remember that "feat" in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 2) The only way to get better at ranked is to play more ranked. Playing regs to get better at ranked arenas is like playing solitaire to get better at poker. lol -- this was a good analogy. I lul'd. fairly accurate too. regs (even reg arenas) are nothing like either ranked format. and the learning curve actually works in reverse. I learn how to pwn ppl in reg arenas from my ranked experience, not vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmarantKando Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 You can not train for ranked in Regs. If you ask for help in PvPing for ranked, you will instead be dissed, attacked, and belittled. I dont agree with either of your arguments. I think you can train for ranked in regs. You can learn how to survive when getting focused on, you can learn how to effectively interrupt healers and what the best ways are to kill specific classes. Ofcourse, in regs there isnt as much communication as needed in ranked, but there is a lot besides communication that you can learn and train in regs. And for your second argument, it may be different on your server. But how I experienced it on the red Eclipse, is that if you ask for help on the fleet, you will defenitely find someone that can help you out. I also have a PT on ToFN, and when I asked for PT specific help for ranked I got several people that whispered me. So again, it may be different on the server you are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopijkee Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) The sad truth is - 99% bad players / guilds cant improve their results for years, they queue month by month and gettin reqt again and again , big % of them giving up after few days/weeks Yes , some of them really perfoming better , but usualy it happens when good (better) players are bored from the game and leave , or when remaining 1% srsly improving ( or class balance significantly changes , they rerolling and good players don't want reroll) and wreqing 'elite', and 'elite' ragequit That's how it usualy happens in this game (its much more about group ranked than solo tho) Edited August 13, 2015 by kopijkee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 The sad truth is - 99% bad players / guilds cant improve their results for years, they queue month by month and gettin reqt again and again , big % of them giving up after few days/weeks Since I began playing PvP 2 years ago, I insisted on the fact that no-one is able to learn ANYTHING within the 5 seconds until defeat. But still - "pro" PvP players have insisted all through these years that you CAN learn something within these 5 seconds until death. Me, I'm still waiting for the explanation, HOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabethchase Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Thanks for all the feedback. It's nice to see that with a decent amount of prep (i.e. actually geared, stimmed and experienced) that many of you are in favor of new players joining. Edited August 14, 2015 by annabethchase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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