Hardcore players are bane of mmos in current stage

[Slowpokeking]

it IS a lot easier. You rarely have to worry about enrage, damage doesn't get so high that healers have trouble keeping up and you can survive a lot of things that would've killed you at 55. if you're wiping now it's because someone ****ed up the mechanics and gear or hp can't really help you with that.

 

No, I worked with PVE guild on TFB and it still went enrage for a couple of times due to ppl died. The Brontes 6 fingers encounter is still very intensive.

 

Fact: 90% or more of the pugs can't do 55 NiM ops, even many guilds wipe on that, more than 50% of the pugs can't do HM level 55 ops.

[Slowpokeking]

so i read 4 pages of this garbage... /yawn

 

leave us elitist c**** alone

 

what do you define as a hardcore player? time played? player skill? my epeen is bigger than your epeen? look at mah sweet gear i bought off a 10/10 guild? i have all cartel stuff unlocked? i have over 1 billion credits?

 

i actually blame the casuals cries for easy content for ruining the game, people are not learning anything if they can faceroll content.

Lets face it, if it can be facerolled it loses its appeal very quickly with alot of people.

 

First thing you do when playing a board game for the first time is read the instructions so you know how to play.

Same should apply to video games yeah, learn to play the game and youll get the most out of it.

 

Its sheer laziness on most peoples part as to why they cannot complete the content, they dont want to improve or "learn how to play the game"

 

they instead want the Developers to make it so you can auto attack your way to victory, which is sad because it removes the challenge of content.

I think casuals need to stop crying and saying that "hardcore" players are the bane of mmo's and actually learn to play the game.

 

All that being said, it wouldnt hurt Bioware to include some guides built into game that help new players with endgame content (flashpoints, operations etc...)

 

 

tldr: learn to play the game you are playing and stop button mashing

 

/rant

 

Again, it depends on the content.

 

New ops should be hard and challenging.

 

Old ones should be easy.

 

2-3 years "ancient" ones should be faceroll.

[Slowpokeking]

Me: New content should be hard, 2-3 years old ones with mostly crappy drop should be mostly faceroll by pugs.

 

Some ppl: No, everything other than SM should be hard and challenging, even those 2-3 years old HM NiM content.

 

What does 2-3 years mean in MMO timespan? 1-2 xpc, at least 15 big patches, 3-4 raid content at least. It's enough to reshape most of the game. Why shouldn't such be very easy to most of the pugs?

 

Let's talk about TFB, the oldest level 55 one(used to be 50), it's very hard to find a group on Harbinger(one of the most populated PVE servers) for HM(came out 3 years before), and nearly nobody pug for NiM(came out more than 2 years before). Really?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Slowpokeking

[Cheveu]

Yes but rescalling the thing correctly would make it interesting again, thus people would like to raid there and get gear too.

You have to remember that most PvE players right now never played TFB and before with the "real" difficulty, or even not at all period.

[Slowpokeking]

Yes but rescalling the thing correctly would make it interesting again, thus people would like to raid there and get gear too.

You have to remember that most PvE players right now never played TFB and before with the "real" difficulty, or even not at all period.

 

Why not make new ones than bring up old content?

 

Yeah I know it, but its era has long passed, it shouldn't have been hard now.

[Khevar]

Why not make new ones than bring up old content?

 

Yeah I know it, but its era has long passed, it shouldn't have been hard now.

Of course this is the best solution. Most everyone wants this.

 

But we live in a world where Bioware is NOT doing this. They are NOT spending developer beans on new operations. We went from a new operation every 3-4 months (between 2011 and 2013) to one new operation a year. Who knows when the next one is coming out. 2016? Never?

 

My personal objection to your demand for level 55 NM ops to be made "faceroll" is that it is borne out your desire for the REWARDS. You're not trying to make the game better. You simply want the loot.

 

And in the absence of any dev schedule of newer content, you're asking for existing content to become 100% obsolete. Simply because you want a mount or some decos.

[Slowpokeking]

Of course this is the best solution. Most everyone wants this.

 

But we live in a world where Bioware is NOT doing this. They are NOT spending developer beans on new operations. We went from a new operation every 3-4 months (between 2011 and 2013) to one new operation a year. Who knows when the next one is coming out. 2016? Never?

 

My personal objection to your demand for level 55 NM ops to be made "faceroll" is that it is borne out your desire for the REWARDS. You're not trying to make the game better. You simply want the loot.

 

And in the absence of any dev schedule of newer content, you're asking for existing content to become 100% obsolete. Simply because you want a mount or some decos.

 

Level 55 HM or NIM ops don't any useful gears other than a mount and a big decor from the final boss. It's not even 100% drop other than Brontes' wing, which means most of the ppl in the ops, or even the whole goup will get nothing from a run. That is quite poor reward. So why shouldn't it be easy to match the reward?

[Khevar]

Level 55 HM or NIM ops don't any useful gears other than a mount and a big decor from the final boss. It's not even 100% drop other than Brontes' wing, which means most of the ppl in the ops, or even the whole goup will get nothing from a run. That is quite poor reward. So why shouldn't it be easy to match the reward?

You've already got plenty of faceroll easy operations. What's wrong with running those? Why move more content into complete obsolescence in the absence of new development?

 

In other words: Why couldn't you wait until there were more new ops before asking for this? (The last question is not rhetorical. I'd like to know what you think.)

Edited August 15, 2015 by Khevar

[Slowpokeking]

You've already got plenty of faceroll easy operations. What's wrong with running those? Why move more content into complete obsolescence in the absence of new development?

 

In other words: Why couldn't you wait until there were more new ops before asking for this? (The last question is not rhetorical. I'd like to know what you think.)

 

What does those level 50s have to do with these ones? EC NIM actually have richer drop than a lot of the HM/NIM ops despite being a lot easier. Drop doesn't match the difficulty.

 

Because their time was up long ago?

[Khevar]

Because their time was up long ago?

The "age" of an operation is not as important as "how many new ones have been released since"

[Slowpokeking]

The "age" of an operation is not as important as "how many new ones have been released since"

 

5 big ops has been released since TFB came out, plus 2 single boss ops encounters.

 

S&V, DF, DP, Rav and ToS, plus Golden Fury and Monolith.

 

It's still not easy to find pug group for TFB HM and NIM on one of the most populated PVE servers.

[Khevar]

5 big ops has been released since TFB came out, plus 2 single boss ops encounters.

If this were all about TfB, we would be having an entirely different conversation.

 

You were asking for ALL level 55 NM operations to be nerfed to "faceroll". Which would leave only 2 operations and one instanced boss for anyone that desires any challenge in operations.

[Cheveu]

5 big ops has been released since TFB came out, plus 2 single boss ops encounters.

 

S&V, DF, DP, Rav and ToS, plus Golden Fury and Monolith.

 

It's still not easy to find pug group for TFB HM and NIM on one of the most populated PVE servers.

 

Yes because nobody gives a c*** about them. If you rescale them and make them drop good gear people will have an incentive to actually go there. New youth for the operation + the new players have new content (since they never did it at level 50/55)

Edited August 15, 2015 by Cheveu

[Slowpokeking]

If this were all about TfB, we would be having an entirely different conversation.

 

You were asking for ALL level 55 NM operations to be nerfed to "faceroll". Which would leave only 2 operations and one instanced boss for anyone that desires any challenge in operations.

 

Actually I'm mostly asking all the HM+ maybe TFB NIM to be faceroll, other NIMs shouldn't be so hard.

[Slowpokeking]

Yes because nobody gives a c*** about them. If you rescale them and make them drop good gear people will have an incentive to actually go there. New youth for the operation + the new players have new content (since they never did it at level 50/55)

 

But ppl love to do EV/KP/EC to farm for decor/comm. Again new gears and new challenges should be granted by new content, not revamp old ones usually.

[onegoldpls]

"Most players aren't running HM ops. Therefore REMOVE THIS CONTENT so they can't play it."

 

:confused:

 

What are you trying to solve? Developer resources or something? It's not like the amount of operations content we've gotten in the last 2 years (with not much to look forward to in the immediate future) is really taking up much of the budget ...

 

hardcore content should be removed completely so casuals can finally get everything , because why not?

 

 

Storymode for the story

Hardmode for the casual's challenge.

I like it, but nim should be forgotten like a terrible dream.

Edited August 15, 2015 by onegoldpls

[Khevar]

hardcore content should be removed completely so casuals can finally get everything , because why not?

Because there is more than ONE type of player that chooses to subscribe to an MMO. Not every piece of content should be homogenized down to a single playstyle.

I like it, but nim should be forgotten like a terrible dream.

According to this, there are no plans to make NM ops anymore.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Khevar

[Slowpokeking]

hardcore content should be removed completely so casuals can finally get everything , because why not?

Casual can't even get a 3 years old ancient content done well without a lot of wipes.

[Kayriel]

Not just in SWTOR but in every other mmo developers always try to satisfie two group of player: casuals and professional/hardcores.

The problem is that majority(casuals) simply can't be satisfied if hardcores(absolute minority 1-2% of all players) can be.

Hardcore players have all content avalable, while casuals(not very skilled players) have only part of it. Tthey want more, but they can't because they don't have enough skill - as result they quit which is bad for a game

Until developers forget about these cancerous hardcore communities and make mmo easy and happy for casuals, mmos will die. This same thing applies to wow, swtor and different mmos.

 

And the solution is simple - remove hard pve content.

Who want some challenge - pvp is your home.

 

 

I'm going to go ahead and give you a 7/10 for this . One of the best troll posts I've ever seen in a while ; i mean you got 12 pages of people actually replying to this post.

 

But in the off chance you are actually serious.... then... WOW! Are you freaking serious ? There is literally nothing in this game that is denied to you , you just want everything that take the tiniest bit of work to be handed to you on a silver plate and by this , i mean gear specifically , because the way operations are designed now and have always been , is that SM version is made so that everyone can complete it and get rewards and if you aren't interested in progression stuff , you are not obligated to do anything more than that.

 

Hard Mode content ( which could be considered the equivalent of the old NiM version of the ops ) is designed for people who enjoy a bit a challenge and group coordination and tactics and apparently you think you are entitled to the same stuff that they are , which is no , i repeat it is NOT the case.

 

Also , i am not sure you are using the term "casual" correctly. I used to run with a hardcore progression guild back in the days that i still played WoW and let me tell you that the experience there is nothing compared to here. We used to sit in Naxramas for hours on end each day of the week to get used to the mechanics , not to mention the fact that we had something called DKP , Dragon Kill Points , which , if you do a simple google search , will tell you that its a retardedly massive pain in the sides , but that was back in the day when i used to have no actual life outside of a game and that was hardcore gaming.

 

Now in comparison to that , this entire game is casual city. Due to RL responsibilities , i do not have more than maybe 2 hours , maybe 3 , to play this game and this is not even on a day to day basis , so going by that , i should be cataloged as a casual , but in those 2-3 hours , me along with my guild mates managed to clear 8 out of the 10 bosses in TOS and Ravagers and this is with us doing ops runs 1 or 2 times per week.

 

How much more casual would you like the game to be ? Unless you are a complete imbecile , that has lost their ability to press the damn keys on your mouse or keyboard , you can complete the SM version of ANY OPERATION IN THIS GAME and if you actually want more gear , you can put a bit of extra focus into learning your class along with encounters and mechanics and get into a guild and coordinate to do HM stuff as well.

 

In conclusion , i think that if you are not trolling ( which i still think you are and again i must congratulate you , since you got me to reply ) , then a MMO is not the game for you , since apparently content for you means wanting to have the same gear as the people who actually want to face a challenge and you crave their rewards for doing that challenging task , but don't want to put the same amount of effort as they did.

[Slowpokeking]

Still, some people here don't get it.

 

A content's vaule doesn't always stay the same. Being HM doesn't mean it should always stay challenging to top level players with gear.

[FerkWork]

Still, some people here don't get it.

 

A content's vaule doesn't always stay the same. Being HM doesn't mean it should always stay challenging to top level players with gear.

 

Well BW disagrees with you and it's there game.

Plus, really just stop, Yesterday 7man pugged SnV NiM on janky alts and didn't take more than 1 hour and that's including Bio breaks and 5 minute shooting the **** before every fight. Your groups must suck that bad if they can't do old content that is easy.

 

Look if you want the chievios for SnV and TfB NiM, come to JC with some money and we can sort out the details and pricing

Edited August 16, 2015 by FerkWork

[FerkWork]

I'm going to go ahead and give you a 7/10 for this . One of the best troll posts I've ever seen in a while ; i mean you got 12 pages of people actually replying to this post.

 

But in the off chance you are actually serious.... then... WOW! Are you freaking serious ? There is literally nothing in this game that is denied to you , you just want everything that take the tiniest bit of work to be handed to you on a silver plate and by this , i mean gear specifically , because the way operations are designed now and have always been , is that SM version is made so that everyone can complete it and get rewards and if you aren't interested in progression stuff , you are not obligated to do anything more than that.

 

Hard Mode content ( which could be considered the equivalent of the old NiM version of the ops ) is designed for people who enjoy a bit a challenge and group coordination and tactics and apparently you think you are entitled to the same stuff that they are , which is no , i repeat it is NOT the case.

 

Also , i am not sure you are using the term "casual" correctly. I used to run with a hardcore progression guild back in the days that i still played WoW and let me tell you that the experience there is nothing compared to here. We used to sit in Naxramas for hours on end each day of the week to get used to the mechanics , not to mention the fact that we had something called DKP , Dragon Kill Points , which , if you do a simple google search , will tell you that its a retardedly massive pain in the sides , but that was back in the day when i used to have no actual life outside of a game and that was hardcore gaming.

 

Now in comparison to that , this entire game is casual city. Due to RL responsibilities , i do not have more than maybe 2 hours , maybe 3 , to play this game and this is not even on a day to day basis , so going by that , i should be cataloged as a casual , but in those 2-3 hours , me along with my guild mates managed to clear 8 out of the 10 bosses in TOS and Ravagers and this is with us doing ops runs 1 or 2 times per week.

 

How much more casual would you like the game to be ? Unless you are a complete imbecile , that has lost their ability to press the damn keys on your mouse or keyboard , you can complete the SM version of ANY OPERATION IN THIS GAME and if you actually want more gear , you can put a bit of extra focus into learning your class along with encounters and mechanics and get into a guild and coordinate to do HM stuff as well.

 

In conclusion , i think that if you are not trolling ( which i still think you are and again i must congratulate you , since you got me to reply ) , then a MMO is not the game for you , since apparently content for you means wanting to have the same gear as the people who actually want to face a challenge and you crave their rewards for doing that challenging task , but don't want to put the same amount of effort as they did.

 

Well said

[Khevar]

Being HM doesn't mean it should always stay challenging to top level players with gear.

HM? Possibly not. NM? I think it should.

 

When NM TfB and SnV were fresh, only the top-skilled players were able to beat them. When gear tiers went higher, more people were able to beat them. When 3.0 introduced a new level cap and more gear tiers, even more people were able to beat time.

 

As the gear and level grind goes on, older content becomes more and more accessible. Doesn't mean it becomes EASY. It means it becomes EASIER.

 

Unfortunately for those that wish for a faceroll experience, it requires more than just some additional gear. It requires the ability to avoid the mechanics of the instance. With the way this game is set up, that is only possible with a 10+ level difference.

[Khevar]

Being HM doesn't mean it should always stay challenging to top level players with gear.

I thought of something else as well.

 

What about the people that are only moderately good at ops? They weren't good enough to beat the top level content when it was relevant, but they may be good enough now, with a bit of extra gear. What do these people get?

 

According to you, the only thing they should be allowed to do is the two latest operations. I disagree. I think that older content should slowly become easier as gear gets better. And I think that is exactly what has been happening.

[Slowpokeking]

HM? Possibly not. NM? I think it should.

 

When NM TfB and SnV were fresh, only the top-skilled players were able to beat them. When gear tiers went higher, more people were able to beat them. When 3.0 introduced a new level cap and more gear tiers, even more people were able to beat time.

 

As the gear and level grind goes on, older content becomes more and more accessible. Doesn't mean it becomes EASY. It means it becomes EASIER.

 

Unfortunately for those that wish for a faceroll experience, it requires more than just some additional gear. It requires the ability to avoid the mechanics of the instance. With the way this game is set up, that is only possible with a 10+ level difference.

 

It depends on time, again. TFB NIM came out 2 years ago and only drops level 180 gears.

 

Easier? Very few people are willing to do a pug group even on Harbinger.