Lost opportunities - why i wont extend sub..

[ExarKuune]

NOTE: These comments are from the perspective of a proper PvP player. As such most of the playerbase will not agree to the views.

 

-No risk and no thrills PvP, is equivalent to being pointless PvP-

It might work in FPS games were it`s mostly about the stats, but in my experience MMO PvPers are not the same crowd as FPS gamers..

 

THE ARGUMENTS PRESENTED BELOW IS WHY I CANCELED MY SUB.

 

Facts:

There are more fans of fantasy than of sci-fi

There are more carebear players than PvPers

While there are far more carebears than PvPers, the latter crowd is still a large one

and i firmly believe that the game to reconcile the two crowds will draw great benefit

we generally don`t like each other, but games that have both of us instantly get

deeper, more engaging and alot more interesting.

 

The Old Republic was from day one in a unique position to capitalize on both genres and both player bases.

 

Star Wars is a fantasy game in a sci-fi setting. It has rich lore and already-written stories one can draw upon to provide tremendous content for PvE (carebear) players and work as a background for the PvPers.

 

Unfortunately Bioware drew singularly on WOW in developing their MMO and just as singularly on their own content and gameplay creation tradition with regards filling up this new world of theirs.

 

They`ve designed a game that feels very much like a single player game i`ve already played which is set in a universe catering to carebears (PvE players). While not innovating anywhere the solo content is safe and strong (which is why i`m playing it). Late game raiding might be fun for the carebears and certainly they approve of the on-training-wheels-PvP in the safety of arenas. And yes, i call Ilum an Arena. It`s one planet in a large universe, so it`s an arena- Calling it open world PvP is an insult to proper PvPers.

 

I was hoping they would at least take a look at what EVE and Perpetuum have done in regards to player driven economies and structuring PvP. I was hoping that the outer rim and border zones would be similar to EVEs low-sec areas (which would be in keeping with SW lore), but no.

 

Arenas, Warzones, Duels and consensual PvP without any penalties or consequences is NOT PvP. I was hoping for war declarations on other guilds, piracy and harassment and a sense of danger when traversing this dangerous universe..

 

..but what i have found is a kiddie-proofed-playground full of watchfull parents ensuring everyone plays "safe".

 

But Bioware should be aware that the uniqueness of their universe could have drawn a sizeable PvP playerbase if they had made the effort. Star Wars could have been a game that provided great PvE AND great PvP at the same time.

 

Maybe Bioware were to caught up in their own development history and the success of WOWs recipy. Maybe they just wanted a safe bet, as the stakes were high. The result however was that many players will probably like me, play the some or all of the single player story and then move on to another game. As for me, i will do a little more of the storyline, but will prioritize my EVE-online accounts where the politics and PvP actually matter.

 

BIOWARE have designed a Massive Online Role Playing Game (MORPG). At best its an MORPG with Co-op instances..

Edited December 28, 2011 by ExarKuune

[Kryptoniic]

He's a self proclaimed "proper" pvp player (unlike most of us) so this must be accurate. Edited December 26, 2011 by Kryptoniic

[Heliotic]

NOTE: These comments are from the perspective of a proper PvP player. As such most of the playerbase will not agree to the views.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

As for me, i will do a little more of the storyline, but will prioritize my EVE-online accounts where the politics and PvP actually matter.

 

Want to buy a leviathan pilot?

Edited December 26, 2011 by Heliotic

[Boesmith]

Spot on.

[Koyi_Aldira]

Can I have your stuff?

[Haristo]

''There are more carebear players than PvPers''

 

Watch out... we're dealing with a bad *** over here...

[Saizor]

Most of the whiners are Dec and Nov 2011....go figure....

[Darthneubauer]

sorry bro, but i've pvp'd in every game from UO to SWTOR

 

It doesn't need to have consequences to make PVP fun, which is the point of PVP.

the only thing wrong with PVP in SWTOR is the amount of *********** stuns/slows and knockbacks which have a slow built in and only 1 CCbreak which has no imminuty after casting it.

once pvp is tweaked and open world pvp actually has some form of a reward it will be great

[DarthDolemite]

NOTE: These comments are from the perspective of a proper PvP player. As such most of the playerbase will not agree to the views.

 

Facts:

There are more fans of fantasy than of sci-fi

There are more carebear players than PvPers

 

The Old Republic was from day one in a unique position to capitalize on both genres and both player bases.

 

Star Wars is a fantasy game in a sci-fi setting. It has rich lore and already-written stories one can draw upon to provide tremendous content for PvE (carebear) players and work as a background for the PvPers.

 

Unfortunately Bioware drew singularly on WOW in developing their MMO and just as singularly on their own content and gameplay creation tradition with regards filling up this new world of theirs.

 

They`ve designed a game that feels very much like a single player game i`ve already played which is set in a universe catering to carebears (PvE players). While not innovating anywhere the solo content is safe and strong (which is why i`m playing it). Late game raiding might be fun for the carebears and certainly they approve of the on-training-wheels-PvP in the safety of arenas. And yes, i call Ilum an Arena. It`s one planet in a large universe, so it`s an arena- Calling it open world PvP is an insult to proper PvPers.

 

I was hoping they would at least take a look at what EVE and Perpetuum have done in regards to player driven economies and structuring PvP. I was hoping that the outer rim and border zones would be similar to EVEs low-sec areas (which would be in keeping with SW lore), but no.

 

Arenas, Warzones, Duels and consensual PvP without any penalties or consequences is NOT PvP. I was hoping for war declarations on other guilds, piracy and harassment and a sense of danger when traversing this dangerous universe..

 

..but what i have found is a kiddie-proofed-playground full of watchfull parents ensuring everyone plays "safe".

 

But Bioware should be aware that the uniqueness of their universe could have drawn a sizeable PvP playerbase if they had made the effort. Star Wars could have been a game that provided great PvE AND great PvP at the same time.

 

Maybe Bioware were to caught up in their own development history and the success of WOWs recipy. Maybe they just wanted a safe bet, as the stakes were high. The result however was that many players will probably like me, play the some or all of the single player story and then move on to another game. As for me, i will do a little more of the storyline, but will prioritize my EVE-online accounts where the politics and PvP actually matter.

 

Well said

[Leggomy]

He's a self proclaimed "proper" pvp player (unlike most of us) so this must be accurate.

 

He even says most people will not like his ideas. I find it kind of hilarious he says the majority will hate these ideas but implement them anyways.

[WarTornPanda]

Arenas, Warzones, Duels and consensual PvP without any penalties or consequences is NOT PvP. I was hoping for war declarations on other guilds, piracy and harassment and a sense of danger when traversing this dangerous universe..

 

Mobbing around and ganking people with a 10:1 ratio is proper PvP to you?

 

Proper PvP is a testament of skill against other players. No skill involved in razing towns while vastly outnumbering your enemy.

 

Anyone can roll around in a mob and gank people.

 

Only a select few are capable of attaining high ratings in arenas or constantly crushing enemy players in a more balanced environment such as a warzone.

[Tarka]

Whilst I can appreciate what the OP is looking for, we must be mindful that the state of the game as it is at launch may change in the coming months / years.

 

For instance, the devs may decide to expand the landmass of certain planets to include such things as "lawless" PVP areas in the future.

 

However, we must also be mindful that not everyone WANTS to be thrust into such a zone for things like leveling, even though people like the OP might enjoy it. Eve may be good from a PVP'ers perspective, but that doesn't mean that PVE'ers will enjoy being ganked and griefed.

[Thorun]

Stopped reading at 'carebear'. I find internet tough guys use this word alot.

 

So its just another pvp QQ thread.

[Abriael]

LOL EVE and Perpetuum.

 

Perpetuum is a game that basically no one will ever care about. As much as I LOVE EVE, it will forever remain a niche game with a solid userbase, but will never, ever raise to mass appeal.

 

Mind you, EVE's is an userbase that is better lost than gained, considering that they're NEVER happy, and that they revel in utter negativity and hating whatever the developer does. If anyone thinks this forum is bad, they'd have to read EVE's and understand how lucky they are.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Abriael

[Valkirus]

Can'nt take this post serous when the OP tries to say TOR is a lot like WoW....it is so different than WoW. Some aspects of it are like WoW, but overall..there are a lot of differences also. If you can'nt see that, then this game is not for you...move along.

[invispoet]

NOTE: These comments are from the perspective of a proper PvP player. As such most of the playerbase will not agree to the views.

 

If you were a "proper PvPer", you'd be playing a First person shooter, not a massively multiplayer online role playing game.

 

MMORPG pvp will NEVER be balanced. MMO's strive on diversity. Diversity means everyone is different. different means not the same, and hence, not equal. Not equal means imbalanced. On top of that, any time a decent 'world pvp' system is put into a game, you get max level characters running around 1 shotting people in the low/mid level zones. Killing someone that has absolutely NO chance of even hurting you is NOT pvp.

 

While I agree they could have done a lot more unique things with the storyline, and the game is not perfect, there are in fact quite a few HUGE shockers in the flashpoint storylines

 

You're buying an apple and complaining that it's not an orange.

[Tarka]

Stopped reading at 'carebear'. I find internet tough guys use this word alot.

 

So its just another pvp QQ thread.

 

Gotta admit, I find that when someone uses that term, any argument they have instantly lose some credibility in my eyes.

 

If the OP is wanting more opportunities to just harrass and grief, then he's perhaps either on the wrong server or in the wrong game.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Tarka

[freekyjason]

Stopped reading at 'carebear'. I find internet tough guys use this word alot.

 

So its just another pvp QQ thread.

 

agreed

 

/thread

[tombsdie]

Most of the whiners are Dec and Nov 2011....go figure....

 

I agree with everything he said.

[Abriael]

Can'nt take this post serous when the OP tries to say TOR is a lot like WoW....it is so different than WoW. Some aspects of it are like WoW, but overall..there are a lot of differences also. If you can'nt see that, then this game is not for you...move along.

 

Exactly, the only aspects that are like wow are simply staples of the MMORPG genre, that wow copied from previous games anyway.

 

So yeah, SWTOR is a MMORPG. point being?

Edited December 26, 2011 by Abriael

[Valkirus]

Mobbing around and ganking people with a 10:1 ratio is proper PvP to you?

 

Proper PvP is a testament of skill against other players. No skill involved in razing towns while vastly outnumbering your enemy.

 

Anyone can roll around in a mob and gank people.

 

Only a select few are capable of attaining high ratings in arenas or constantly crushing enemy players in a more balanced environment such as a warzone.

 

TOR has not done pvp right...as no game out today has sence the early days of UO. Which had actual stiff penalties for dying to other players. Until a game comes out which has the type of pvp which UO had..I will show no interest in thier "soccer" style pvp.

[Abriael]

TOR has not done pvp right...as no game out today has sence the early days of UO. Which had actual stiff penalties for dying to other players. Until a game comes out which has the type of pvp which UO had..I will show no interest in thier "soccer" style pvp.

 

Yeah. punishing people for playing is an awesome way to do PvP right. Oh wait...

[JimG]

''There are more carebear players than PvPers''

 

Watch out... we're dealing with a bad *** over here...

 

LOL, must be one of those "hardcore" PVPers that ganks lowbies and gangs up on people 5 on 1. Clearly taking out a world boss is much safer and less difficult than ganking a lowbie.

[ExarKuune]

I have my characters and i might return at a later time if the PvP content is improved and expanded upon..

 

In the meantime i`ll play BF3 and EVE.

 

Keep in mind i do not wish to trash the game. I love the star wars universe and there is so much potential here.

 

I cancelled my sub mostly because i feel the design choices already made preclude interesting PvP for the foreseable future..

 

If this changes- we`ll see each other again..

[Tarka]

Most of the whiners are Dec and Nov 2011....go figure....

 

With all due respect, what exactly does the date of forum registration matter to an argument? Someone could having been following the development of this game for the last 3 years and never registered their account. And yet, they wouldn't know how the PVP in this game is UNTIL it launched.