Healers are a Problem Buff DPS

[jediharrsion]

Yep between Healer+Tank combo and at least 3 healers in almost every warzone this problem has gotten way out of hand. But I'm not going to suggest nerfing anything, instead go back to the dps classes like the Marauder/Juggernaut/Mercenary and buff them. We already got the FOTM PT/Sin/Sorc, Sniper/slinger are ok for now, Operatives are in a class of there own so they are ok, So buff the rest of the dps classes/specs, Make the Merc/Mara feared again. This will solve the healer problem very quickly. Edited July 25, 2015 by jediharrsion

[mmmbuddah]

Yep between Healer+Tank combo and at least 3 healers in almost every warzone this problem has gotten way out of hand. But I'm not going to suggest nerfing anything, instead go back to the dps classes like the Marauder/Juggernaut/Mercenary and buff them. We already got the FOTM PT/Sin/Sorc, Sniper/slinger are ok for now, Operatives are in a class of there own so they are ok, So buff the rest of the dps classes/specs, Make the Merc/Mara feared again. This will solve the healer problem very quickly.

 

Doubt anything will happen, remember when BWs metrics said they should nerf plasmatech and pyro? Yeah. Logic isnt their strong suit.

[AngusFTW]

The problem isn't healing being strong or dps being weak.

The issue is pebkac for most of the random dpsers you run into in wzs who barely break 700 dps who dunno how to play there class properly.

Edited July 25, 2015 by AngusFTW

[Lalainnia]

One important thing to note other than people in general not knowing how to play. Healing is easier to perform than dpsing as a healer specifically Sorcs and Operatives you aren't bound as strictly as dps specs to a rotation to get effective results that doesn't mean a sorc spamming dark heal or a operative doing nothing but hard casting Kolto injection is good but it's far more effective than say a Tactics vanguard spamming it's ion pulse w/e its called for that spec and the list goes on for dps specs. Pretty much a poorly played healer is 1000x better to have than a poorly played dps....even though in the end it comes back to learning how to play sadly.

[Alec_Fortescue]

There really isn't a point in extensive balancing changes right now as we're very close to some significant rebelancing changes that are to come in KotFE, including new level cap, abilities etc. Pretty sure they're going to sort many things out in KotFE. I have hope! Edited July 25, 2015 by Alec_Fortescue

[AngusFTW]

One important thing to note other than people in general not knowing how to play. Healing is easier to perform than dpsing as a healer specifically Sorcs and Operatives you aren't bound as strictly as dps specs to a rotation to get effective results that doesn't mean a sorc spamming dark heal or a operative doing nothing but hard casting Kolto injection is good but it's far more effective than say a Tactics vanguard spamming it's ion pulse w/e its called for that spec and the list goes on for dps specs. Pretty much a poorly played healer is 1000x better to have than a poorly played dps....even though in the end it comes back to learning how to play sadly.

idk i think a vg spamming that would still do more than 700dps xD

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Healers are not the problem. Tanks are not the problem.

 

The problem comes from some DPS players being so crap at this game it begs belief on occasion.

[helpmewin]

Ok than mediocre sorc healer that can easily broke 2K+ HPS under non-stop pressure is ok. And mediocre DPS that doing 800-900 DPS - he is bad, that is problem! U guys just full of logic nowdays.

DPS bad - Not enough DPS, not enough CC-s, not enough focus fire. What we need to hear tooday?

Edited July 25, 2015 by helpmewin

[alexsamma]

Ok than mediocre sorc healer that can easily broke 2K+ HPS under non-stop pressure is ok. And mediocre DPS that doing 800-900 DPS - he is bad, that is problem! U guys just full of logic nowdays.

DPS bad - Not enough DPS, not enough CC-s, not enough focus fire. What we need to hear tooday?

 

If the healer is only pulling 2k hps then he is not under non-stop pressure, 2k hps is "I was half asleep that game, wake me up when the real dps get here."

 

You should be able to hit 1k dps as long as you are:

 

a: Not constantly getting globalled

b: You are not sitting on a node with your thumb up your ***

c: You are activating a dps ability every gcd

 

Stop thinking that 1k dps is "good" or "acceptable," 1k dps is something that should just happen (unless the matching making rng gods have decided to **** on you).

[Technohic]

The guy quoted below from another thread will explain it better than me, but I don't want a HPS vs DPS race which I think is a bigger problem

 

The buff to healers was a horrible change and here's why. Which no one in this thread I think even understands.

 

A good player. Not healer, just player will spend at least 20% of his globals on peeling damage or healer/tank control, utility. This is PvP. Not PvE where you put all your globals into healing/damage output. PvP is supposed to be dynamic and should reward players for using all their abilities not just healing/damage abilities, popping defensives when you get attacked. This is how you separate the good players from the mediocre. That's the whole point of player vs. player. When the game comes down to just output, because that's the best and in most scenarios the only option to succeed, your game has no depth.

 

I just cleansed spike on my sniper teammate, so he could get in cover before that marauder leaped to him and have dampers up for the next sin attack. Get on me level. Oh wait. The sin hit him for 10k anyways spiked crit him for 7k previously? Should have just used that global healing. Now I'm behind. GG reaction time.

 

What this change ultimately did was buff globals used on healing and in turn nerfed all other healer utility globals. When you make your game only about a dps/hps race, the globals spent cleansing, controling, stopping damage/healing or any other kind of utility become obsolete. Output races barely have any meta to them.

 

I think healing should have been buffed. It needed to be buffed. Still needs to be buffed. Things still die through freecasted spam heal. The meta should never allow someone to just straight die through cooldowns with no CC or interrupts on their healer. But there are ways to buff healing while encouraging the game's depth.

 

The bulk of healing should be counterable. The biggest heals. Counterable. There are no counters in this game to instant heals or hots. No offensive dispel/purge mechanic. Because the game lacks mechanics you have to homogenize all the healers into being cast based. Why casts? Because casts are countered by interrupts. That's the whole point of interrupts. When you give a sorc an instant cast roaming mend smart heal that can heal everyone in his group for 9k, you are throwing depth out the window.

 

What they need to do is nerf instant healing and buff casted healing in pvp. And buff casted healing to a point where if someone is getting casted heals off, their healing target will never die. Then buff interrupts to counter those casted heals. Add a 2 second healing school lockout or something, because right now interrupts barely counter healing output at all or go in some sort of similar direction. What you don't do is say 'DUR. We'll just increase pvp trauma'

 

It really is hillarious when a dev comes out and says. If healing is too strong, we'll just increase global trauma. How does increasing global trauma add to the game's depth? No concept of counterplay whatsoever. It's just amazing.

[Jake_Chambers]

If the healer is only pulling 2k hps then he is not under non-stop pressure, 2k hps is "I was half asleep that game, wake me up when the real dps get here."

 

You should be able to hit 1k dps as long as you are:

 

a: Not constantly getting globalled

b: You are not sitting on a node with your thumb up your ***

c: You are activating a dps ability every gcd

 

Stop thinking that 1k dps is "good" or "acceptable," 1k dps is something that should just happen (unless the matching making rng gods have decided to **** on you).

 

Your hps is just as much tied to the dps you're facing as much as your skill, can't heal if there's no dmg

[alexsamma]

Your hps is just as much tied to the dps you're facing as much as your skill, can't heal if there's no dmg

 

That's the point I was making, at 2k hps you're basically running on auto pilot as a healer.

[Obviousenuendo]

bla bla bla bla bad dps bla bla bla..

 

while that is a problem, a lot of people fail to understand that there is a lot of passive and powerful active damage mediation in this game, that's not even including guard.

 

Yes, you shouldn't be attacking guarded targets (unless it's only a tank and guarded target present, or target is not being guarded by an actual tank) but being that dps is the only role I ever play in any mmo, there are a lot of factors that drop dps.. I'll list them.

 

Being dead = a dead target is a target not doing damage, if your class is susceptible to focus fire for having poor DCD's this usally will be you.

On the same note = a person taking damage will have a lower damage output, because they are focusing effort on staying alive and using GCD's on DCD..

Active damage nullifiers = saber reflect, dodge, shroud, bubble, roll, the first two seconds of saber ward, chaff flare, etc etc. These abilities will be popped when someone sees that they are about to be bursted, and hence bringing your damage down, and most of these abilities are on low CD's meaning they will be used often. You shouldn't attack targets with these defenses up, but it will happen, at least the first GCD for sure. It's not uncommon to switch targets a few times in a row and be unlucky enough to conveniently attack when said things are present on multiple people.. I remember my sniper would switch being 4 juggarnats in one fight and get reflected on everyone of them..

Taunting/guarding = with this game and it's taunts, plus aoe taunt that can be spammed every 45 seconds, that lasts 6 seconds, that's an almost constant 30% DR on top of what most classes have, it can be noticed on display of your toon, but it's very easy to not see. or even tell who taunted if there is multiple tank classes.

 

This is a trivial one but, you can't damage any enemy if there aren't any present = your team is facerolling or you're guarding will also lead to low numbers.. but the overall scoreboard and match usually reflects this so that's not really big.

 

point is, dps is more than spam a rotation and move around. there are only two classes in the game that can reduce healing targets receive (can't even reduce the healing someone does..or was it the other way around?) and 3 of them can use tankin abilities, two of which are fotm... guardians are also in a good place and fairly popular.. so realize it or not, dps is constantly being brought down..healing is not..

[MotorCityMan]

Healers are not the problem. Tanks are not the problem.

 

The problem comes from some DPS players being so crap at this game it begs belief on occasion.

 

So your solution is just to call the majority of players names? Brilliant.

 

And we wonder why Bioware ignores feedback.

[Brunner_Venda]

So your solution is just to call the majority of players names? Brilliant.

 

And we wonder why Bioware ignores feedback.

 

So much this. ^^^^

 

The only people who deny that a tank healer pair isn't a 1+1=4 situation are:

 

1. Tanks.

2. Healers.

 

Guard needs to be changed to only intercept a third of PLAYER damage.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Brunner_Venda

[Lhancelot]

Since 3.3, something is definitely off. Sure, sorcs got some performance buffs in PVP. But really, nothing else was changed, that would alter the gameplay as much as it has been since 3.3?

 

I am lost tbh. There is no doubt though, damage overall seems a little lower than usual, and when one team has 3 healers or more, no matter who you got on a team you are not breaking through their heals.

 

In one match, our team had top 3 damage dps in the warzone, a sniper, commando, a scoundrel, and then the rest were not far below us and we managed 2 total kills against a team that had 3 healers. Longest, most boring Civil War ever because all it became was a DPS-fest trying to find the softest target but to no avail. Very frustrating.

 

Yeah, these types of matches happened in the past. But, 5 out of 7 matches tonight? that's unusual. I will play tomorrow to see how it goes before I judge.

 

For everyone stating it's just bads doing dps I think you are wrong. I am watching pvp guilded players who know their classes failing to kill, and I know for a fact I am not terrible with my targeting/dps.

 

My suspicion is PVP is borked, and I wouldn't even say it's simply the changes to sorcs/sages, because I see ops/mercs healing just as much and there's no difference to the outcome, you simply cannot break through even with focus fire, on multiple healers.

[Lalainnia]

Since 3.3, something is definitely off. Sure, sorcs got some performance buffs in PVP. But really, nothing else was changed, that would alter the gameplay as much as it has been since 3.3?

 

I am lost tbh. There is no doubt though, damage overall seems a little lower than usual, and when one team has 3 healers or more, no matter who you got on a team you are not breaking through their heals.

 

In one match, our team had top 3 damage dps in the warzone, a sniper, commando, a scoundrel, and then the rest were not far below us and we managed 2 total kills against a team that had 3 healers. Longest, most boring Civil War ever because all it became was a DPS-fest trying to find the softest target but to no avail. Very frustrating.

 

Yeah, these types of matches happened in the past. But, 5 out of 7 matches tonight? that's unusual. I will play tomorrow to see how it goes before I judge.

 

For everyone stating it's just bads doing dps I think you are wrong. I am watching pvp guilded players who know their classes failing to kill, and I know for a fact I am not terrible with my targeting/dps.

 

My suspicion is PVP is borked, and I wouldn't even say it's simply the changes to sorcs/sages, because I see ops/mercs healing just as much and there's no difference to the outcome, you simply cannot break through even with focus fire, on multiple healers.

 

Sorc healing isn't just strong it's easy as in rotation set ups it's very easy to play. People in general will flock to whatever is easy to play but when it's the strongest that just makes it even better.

[MiaowZedong]

Stop calling for more buffs. You know how the current meta looks? In order to be viable, a class needs:

—Roots and/or snares

—A way to break roots and snares

—Powerful defensive cooldowns

—Powerful offensive/healing/more defensive cooldowns

—Something to do while CC'd or some immunity to CC (even PT have Shoulder Cannon, Sorcs can Jesus bubble while stunned, 'sin just have a load of immunity, Fury maras needed some CC immunity to become viable, etc)

—High mobility

 

If we're going to power creep even further, we might as well just skip to the end and give every class everything, then give them a counter to everything.