Shwarzchild Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 We're moving into a situation where we may need to call the video game version of the CDC. This is turning into a stage 5 outbreak of entitlement. If only "revenue" equaled profit. I'd be so happy to ignore the things in my life that eat away at my monies. Here OP: http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/122214/what-difference-between-revenue-and-profit.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) We're moving into a situation where we may need to call the video game version of the CDC. This is turning into a stage 5 outbreak of entitlement. If only "revenue" equaled profit. I'd be so happy to ignore the things in my life that eat away at my monies. Here OP: http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/122214/what-difference-between-revenue-and-profit.asp What are you talking about I already accounted for that also in the many posts I posted give me proof I gave you all. give me proof that SWTOR barely gets any profit. Edited July 23, 2015 by adormitul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwarzchild Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) What are you talking about I already accounted for that also in the many posts I posted give me proof I gave you all. give me proof that SWTOR barely gets any profit. If you give me proof that you actually understand concepts, and won't just twist any three words in a way to support your assertion as fact when it is incorrect in nature then I will start to take your request for proof seriously, and I will then tell you how to use google to find evidence. EDIT: Im bored at work trying to ride out the rest of the day so let's play. I've reviewed your posts, and your evidence. Unfortunately, your evidence refers to different games and then you extrapolate out to meet your assumptions regarding this one. This ends in subjective statements that are not truly based in fact. When you write a research paper, you would do this to form your introduction/ lit review and the extrapolations would form your hypothesis which you would then test in some fashion. So for example you say: "....Since SWTOR is 10 percent the size of WOW can I assume that the upkeep is 20 million per year..." The problem here is that you stop right there. Your assumption takes hold which you use to support your notion. To specify, the problem is that you forgot to go forward to find the actual numbers to test your assumption. Second, just because a game is a triple A title does not mean that it is an equal comparison to an MMO. Lastly, you have no accounted for any of the additional costs that eat into the revenue stream. You stop at revenue, and jump to profit without any accounting for the in between. You may think you have, but you skip it entirely in each of your posts. edit 2: source material for my previous 200 million dollar cost of swtor: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-the-old-republic-cost-200-million-to-develop/1100-6348959/ source for the revenue of swtor: http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/10/swtor-revenues-climb-over-100-million-for-2014.html also: already provided you a source to describe the difference between revenue and profit. Edited July 23, 2015 by Shwarzchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 If you give me proof that you actually understand concepts, and won't just twist any three words in a way to support your assertion as fact when it is incorrect in nature then I will start to take your request for proof seriously, and I will then tell you how to use google to find evidence. You gave no proof no proof just empty words. Then you accuse me of not knowing the concepts give a link of what is revenue and what is profit without saying why I was wrong. Prove you are right prove that SWTOR will not get any profit without the cartel market, prove that the profit from this game goes towards other games in EA even if they sell millions of them in a few months after release at 60 dollars each copy. Prove to me that they spent millions on creating single player games that they need the profit from TOR to make the next game and it did not cost a couple dozen as it was with the Witcher 3. But no its better to make personal attacks instead. If you have no proof then give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You gave no proof no proof just empty words. Then you accuse me of not knowing the concepts give a link of what is revenue and what is profit without saying why I was wrong. Prove you are right prove that SWTOR will not get any profit without the cartel market, prove that the profit from this game goes towards other games in EA even if they sell millions of them in a few months after release at 60 dollars each copy. Prove to me that they spent millions on creating single player games that they need the profit from TOR to make the next game and it did not cost a couple dozen as it was with the Witcher 3. But no its better to make personal attacks instead. If you have no proof then give up. Because thats how business is done. They take ALL the money they get from ALL the projects the do for that year, use it to plan their budgets for the remaining years. Especially NEW products that havn't been made yet (i.e new IP which is what they do to grow). lets put it in the concept of movies. A production company has a budget of $1 billion dollars a year for ALL the movie they plan to make that year. Of which includes say 1 blockbuster than can make $1billion on its own and only cost say $300 million to make. that 1 movie pays the budgets of every other movie they make (since they have to spend the money to make it and can't guarantee it will make anything when sold). R&D is 100% done on deferred revenue. they spend money they have in the bank now (from other games or a huge loan) on the premise that they will make it back over some time frame in the future (hence deferred). that is how business work, which is why we say the money from TOR is used to make other games..whose income is then used to make TOR or other games. Which is then used to make TOR or other games. etc. why is that so hard to understand? apparently you've never done any business work. the concept of "it takes money to make money" think of it like flipping houses. You take out a loan and buy a house. upgrade it and sell it for a profit. That profit pays off that house, and is used to buy and update other houses. so forth and so on. The more houses you update and sell the bigger the house you can do next time and grow into different markets. or the more houses you can do at once, rather than one at a time. but the revenue from one sale is used to make new sales (ie. money) that is called growth. do you understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwarzchild Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) You gave no proof no proof just empty words. Then you accuse me of not knowing the concepts give a link of what is revenue and what is profit without saying why I was wrong. Prove you are right prove that SWTOR will not get any profit without the cartel market, prove that the profit from this game goes towards other games in EA even if they sell millions of them in a few months after release at 60 dollars each copy. Prove to me that they spent millions on creating single player games that they need the profit from TOR to make the next game and it did not cost a couple dozen as it was with the Witcher 3. But no its better to make personal attacks instead. If you have no proof then give up. I edited my post above to show you where I pulled my information. edit: regarding how revenue is shared across company: http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/1/3439738/the-state-of-games-state-of-aaa When you read that article pay attention to the part about EA. In the "In the Numbers" section. 4th paragraph. Edited July 23, 2015 by Shwarzchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Because thats how business is done. They take ALL the money they get from ALL the projects the do for that year, use it to plan their budgets for the remaining years. Especially NEW products that havn't been made yet (i.e new IP which is what they do to grow). lets put it in the concept of movies. A production company has a budget of $1 billion dollars a year for ALL the movie they plan to make that year. Of which includes say 1 blockbuster than can make $1billion on its own and only cost say $300 million to make. that 1 movie pays the budgets of every other movie they make (since they have to spend the money to make it and can't guarantee it will make anything when sold). R&D is 100% done on deferred revenue. they spend money they have in the bank now (from other games or a huge loan) on the premise that they will make it back over some time frame in the future (hence deferred). that is how business work, which is why we say the money from TOR is used to make other games..whose income is then used to make TOR or other games. Which is then used to make TOR or other games. etc. why is that so hard to understand? apparently you've never done any business work. the concept of "it takes money to make money" think of it like flipping houses. You take out a loan and buy a house. upgrade it and sell it for a profit. That profit pays off that house, and is used to buy and update other houses. so forth and so on. The more houses you update and sell the bigger the house you can do next time and grow into different markets. or the more houses you can do at once, rather than one at a time. but the revenue from one sale is used to make new sales (ie. money) that is called growth. do you understand? Ok that is true very true but this discussion all started because someone said that without the cartel market will this game will have died and I said that they recovered their investment a few times over. I also gave proof with the example being WOW that only 200 million of the 1 billion they won a year went to paying the employee, the server, marketing well all the costs of maintaining a mmo and said that most of those money go towards the server fees. So assuming that is only 20% like in case of WOW this game being 10% the size of WOW I assume the server is also only 10% the size of WOW so 10% the cost. With SWTOR winning 100 million a year with only 30% being subscribers I guess meaning 30 million a year with 20 million a year going to the cost of maintaining this mmo there is still a 10 million profit. But 10 million may be to small for creating other projects to create new sales meaning growth so they will close the game because its not good for growth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcidicBeauty Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Personally I want to see Voss be playable This. So much this. I'd love to play a Voss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Ok that is true very true but this discussion all started because someone said that without the cartel market will this game will have died and I said that they recovered their investment a few times over. I also gave proof with the example being WOW that only 200 million of the 1 billion they won a year went to paying the employee, the server, marketing well all the costs of maintaining a mmo and said that most of those money go towards the server fees. So assuming that is only 20% like in case of WOW this game being 10% the size of WOW I assume the server is also only 10% the size of WOW so 10% the cost. With SWTOR winning 100 million a year with only 30% being subscribers I guess meaning 30 million a year with 20 million a year going to the cost of maintaining this mmo there is still a 10 million profit. But 10 million may be to small for creating other projects to create new sales meaning growth so they will close the game because its not good for growth? CM saved the game because the number of subscribers and revenue from that, was not going to cover future development nor would it cover continued maintenance costs for servers. And all those revenue numbers being reported are based on the CM. it needed something like 500k subs to be "profitable" but that wasn't enough for expectations for this game. it was expected to bring in billions over its lifetime. in a company that has a billion dollar budget, one game making $100million a hear is a drop in the bucket. Why is this hard to grasp? all revenue goes into a pool and are budgeted out to all projects and bills then rest is profit. some areas more profitable than others which si why they divest and why they make new IP to grow, otherwise its just stangnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 CM saved the game because the number of subscribers and revenue from that, was not going to cover future development nor would it cover continued maintenance costs for servers. And all those revenue numbers being reported are based on the CM. it needed something like 500k subs to be "profitable" but that wasn't enough for expectations for this game. it was expected to bring in billions over its lifetime. in a company that has a billion dollar budget, one game making $100million a hear is a drop in the bucket. Why is this hard to grasp? all revenue goes into a pool and are budgeted out to all projects and bills then rest is profit. some areas more profitable than others which si why they divest and why they make new IP to grow, otherwise its just stangnation. Okay got it they pool the money so they can afford to make new IP. But how do you know that it will not cover the maintenance cost for servers? So future development will not be covered as I said in the previous game and I assume that EA will not bring new content for this game to survive if it has so little earning and the profit from the previous year already have been used for new IP's whatever they are that is because EA want to bring more revenue and have more profit and not stagnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Cosmetic features cost extra for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor_the_Bruce Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Really Not really, only the OP has to pay CCs, or did no one tell him yet that we all got them for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pscyon Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 not really, only the op has to pay ccs, or did no one tell him yet that we all got them for free? shh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmwfte Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 shh!!! Guess he wasn't actually subscribed long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 1. I do not care if its horrible for others nobody is forcing them to have the race 2. I do not care again nobody is forcing you to have the race. 3. I am pretty sure they work. 4. I do not really care about them. With the new expansion you can imagine that the new level 60 is a veteran of the galactic war that is not is not one of the heroes and for that matter why not a hero. More people do care, than don't. I mean, you care so much about Wookiees that you can't even be arsed to spell it right. So obviously, you're just throwing some stuff out for attention, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I like this forum for one reason the mods really do not like personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I like this forum for one reason the mods really do not like personal attacks. I like your nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor_the_Bruce Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Not really, only the OP has to pay CCs, or did no one tell him yet that we all got them for free? I was mostly poking fun at the title of the forum topic. I love it when people ask the quesion Really?!?!?!?!....it just requires one word to answer them. lol And yeah, i don't think he realized that subs bascially got the new race for free. I'd be lol'ing if he felt the need to actually make a purchace of CC to buy this. Some peoples children....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts