Buying a gaming computer.

[Draqsko]

Make sure you get a good video card, a decent CPU, a mess of RAM (Depending on what your motherboard can take) and a good cooling system (I have liquid and swear by it) if you plan on any type of overclocking.

 

No, the single most important thing when you are going to overclock is... Power Phase.

 

Good overclocks that are stable require stable power, the only way to get that is a good motherboard with robust power phase arrangement, 6+2 or 6+2+2 or 8+2, etc. The 4+2 and 4+2+2 arrangements are simply not meant for overclocking and they will have issues with stability.

 

You can get a decent overclock with the stock cooler if you just get rid of that crap thermal paste they give you and use Indigo Xtreme. But the voltage has to be stable otherwise you have to over-volt to account for vdroop, which makes temps higher which makes you require more volts for stability and so on, hence power phase is the most important.

 

Also for ram, if you are overclocking it is better to have few but large sticks to ease the load on your memory controller and allow you to obtain a faster overclock on your bus speed while keeping the timings tight on the ram. So 2 sticks of dual channel ram of the maximum amount that the motherboard can handle (8 GB per stick so 16GB total for example) is the best recommendation if you are overclocking.

 

Remember, bus speed overclocks are where you see real life performance gains, not multiplier overclocks. My FX-8350 is ranked in the 95th percentile on Userbenchmark out of over 4k individual cpu's. The average bench for that CPU ranks it at 151st, my OC'd version ranks at 61st. All I've done so far is hit the standard sync point of 233 MHz FSB and kept the multiplier at 20, which matches the 1866 MHz ram speed with its tested CAS latency of 8 clocks. It's little things like this that make overclocking work and translate into real world performance gains.

[Draqsko]

That's incorrect. Assuming you have a motherboard with quality VRM's etc, then the limiting factor is going to be the CPU's luck of the draw followed by cooling. Adding a fan to the back of the socket or adding airflow around the socket does nothing for overclocking. I speak from over 18+ years of overclocking experience ranging from air to custom phase change units featured at Xtreme Systems and EOCF.

 

I have an ASUS M5A99 FX PRO R2.0, and it was definitely a problem with aftermarket cooling and hitting over 72C on the socket temps during stress testing in either Prime or OCCT. I took apart an old stock cooler I had, stuck the fan on the VRM heatsink and the temps on the socket never got over 60C on a faster overclock, 4.667 vs 4.4, with higher voltage, 1.35 vs 1.2875.

 

Sorry, I've been building PCs and overclocking them since I was 13, that was 27 years ago. Things have changed, even in the last 5 years. The boards today need good air movement to keep cool. It must be provided by either a good case, open-air design, or a cooler that pushes air against the motherboard and not the peripheral of the case.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Draqsko

[SuspectDown]

I have an ASUS M5A99 FX PRO R2.0, and it was definitely a problem with aftermarket cooling and hitting over 72C on the socket temps during stress testing in either Prime or OCCT. I took apart an old stock cooler I had, stuck the fan on the VRM heatsink and the temps on the socket never got over 60C on a faster overclock, 4.667 vs 4.4, with higher voltage, 1.35 vs 1.2875.

 

Sorry, I've been building PCs and overclocking them since I was 13, that was 27 years ago. Things have changed, even in the last 5 years. The boards today need good air movement to keep cool. It must be provided by either a good case, open-air design, or a cooler that pushes air against the motherboard and not the peripheral of the case.

 

Inadequate VRM cooling is not socket cooling....

[SuspectDown]

No, the single most important thing when you are going to overclock is... Power Phase.

 

That's not necessarily true either. As long as it's a decent board, cooling is going to be far, far more important. You'll experience a wall with your cooling before you will with most motherboards (assuming it isn't a garbage bin board). For example, my first 2500K ran 4.7 GHz 1.3v 24/7, then 5.0 GHz 1.4v, and I benched it slightly over 5.6 GHz, all of this with AIO cooling and a Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H. The board is just a simple analog 4 phase board with half-decent mofsets, capacitors, and inductors.

[Conundrum-NSA]

You guys are way beyond the original question.

 

Also, not all CPUs come with a stock cooler these days.

[tattoohero]

All you need is a good graphics card and power supply and any cheap computer from wal-mart will play it.

 

That is the last place I'd send anyone to buy a PC. No, no, bad, bad.

 

Best Buy is bad enough.

 

Build one, you don't get all the BS on it and you can make exactly what you want.

[MotorCityMan]

Realistically, you can order a gaming computer for about the same price as you can build one, maybe even cheaper. It does pay to educate yourself or at least have someone knowledgeable advise you so you know what you are getting. The advantage to building your own is that you are able to select exactly the components you want. But there are companies out there who have such a wide variety of choices that you can easily go that route as well and buy a nice built one. A great thing about built ones is that they have a warranty and will probably look nicer than the first few you build on your own. Edited July 17, 2015 by MotorCityMan

[CheaterLL]

It depends on how much money you want to spend.

Under 1000$, go with a 4th generation Intel i5 or i7 (i5-4xxx or i7-4xxx). Make sure you have at least 4 cpu cores. Get a GTX 970 graphics card and 8 GB DDR3-1600 RAM. The motherboard has to have the Intel Z97 chipset and LGA1150 socket.

1000$-2000$, 4th generation i7 (i7-4xxx; i7-4970K would be the best option), GTX 980, 16-32 GB DDR3-1600 RAM. The motherboard has to have the Intel Z97 chipset and LGA1150 socket.

Over 2000$, i7-5930K, GTX 980 Ti (custom version, I can recommend the MSI GAMING), 32 GB DDR4-2133 RAM and an M.2 SSD with 128 GB or more (only if the motherboard has a M.2 slot). Intel X99 chipset motherboard, socket LGA2011v3.

 

Make sure you buy the boxed version of the CPU because that comes with an adequate cooler. Also make sure that after the 4-digit version number there is either a 'X', a 'K' or no letter. Those are the overclockable and standard CPUs. A 'L' or a 'U' indicate throttled CPUs, which consume less power but also have worse performance.

In all cases, use a 120-512 GB SSD for your Windows and SWTOR and use a HDD with 512-2048 GB for other stuff.

Try out the software SWTOR Unleashed (check google for more info). This is the reason why I recommend getting so much RAM.

Another important part is the PSU. Add up the TDP of your CPU and graphics card and then add 50% on top of it. Then buy the next higher PSU. i.e. 140W TDP CPU and 250W TDP graphics card => 390W TDP + 50% => 585W => get a 600W PSU.

Make sure you have a case that fits everything. A standard 'midi' case fits normal ATX mainboards, EATX is a bit bigger but still fits many midi cases.

4k UHD monitors can seriously affect frame rate. Go with a normal HD 1920x1080 display.

 

 

This is assuming you don't want to overclock anything. If you want to OC, get RAM with a higher speed and add another 50-100W to your PSU.

[MuzluPasta]

I have 5930K, 16 GB DDR4 RAM, 2x970 and it still drops below 30 in certain fights.

Yes the engine sucks. It doesn't even use SLI.

 

Advanced shadow features are bugged. Increase them and you will never see 15+.

[MartinSPT]

i was planning on purchasing a new gaming computer. I've read many reviews about each big gaming company. I don't really know which computer to choose. I want one that can handle SWTOR on highest settings flawlessly. And I want it to be able to handle the upcoming Star Wars game, Battlefront. I also play Steam games on occasion, so I'd want it to be able to handle most big games on Steam. Thank you

 

Let us make this simple, and give you some tools to do your own research so you can make an informed decision.

 

The basics, listed in order of priority...

1. CPU - Intel i5 or i7 - DO NOT buy a system with an AMD CPU at this time.*
   
2. GPU - The fastest you can currently afford. (Don't bother with SLI or Crossfire)**
   
3. RAM - 8GB is a nice number, but as much as you can afford.
   
4. Monitor - Stick with a 1080p monitor - and get a nice size.
   
5. Windows 10 64bit (A system with Windows 8.1, and you get a free upgrade to Windows 10)
   
6. The rest of the computer can vary, as there is overall very little differences that will affect your gameplay.
   

 

Now, what level of performance are you getting and what should you consider to be the minimum is the next step. This is where you will need to do some work and lookup the specific parts and their performance to ensure they meet your needs.

 

CPU (Main Processor)

This is where you will look up the CPU in the computer you are considering:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Minimum Performance: 6500

Suggested Performance: 7000-8000

 

GPU (Video Card)

This is where you will look up the GPU (Video Card) in the computer you are considering:

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

Minimum Performance: 3000

Suggested Performance: 4500-6000

 

 

Here are a couple of additional resources that can help you find what CPU/GPU you should be able to afford, and remember that you can buy a non-gaming computer if it has a good CPU and put in your own GPU/Video Card. (Ensure it has a PCI/e Slot for the GPU and has a 450watt or better power supply.)

 

Best Gaming CPUs for the Money

(This is a monthly feature, and it is fairly accurate; however, ignore all AMD suggestions, just skip over them..)

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106.html

 

Best Video Cards for the Money

(This is a monthly feature, and it is fairly accurate in picking the best in each price range.)

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107.html

 

 

 

*

The reason to avoid AMD CPUs is that they perform very poorly in per core thread operations compared to Intel processors. So in a game like SWTOR, where the game is CPU heavy and is only using two Cores of your CPU most of the time, it is going to run much slower on an AMD CPU. You can see this represented in the single core thread performance tests:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

(Right now in computing in general and in gaming, we want faster CPU cores, not necessarily more CPU cores.)

 

 

 

**

SLI and Crossfire are usually more of a headache than the performance they provide. With Windows 10, the concept of SLI and Crossfire will slowly go away as the Windows NT GPU scheduler will handle the GPUs. This was supposed to happen in the days of Vista, but NVidia went bonkers and locked their drivers to prevent Windows from doing GPU SMP as the WDM/WDDM was designed to do. After AMD bought ATI, they also locked their drivers, so even though Windows has supported GPU SMP features since Vista, it hasn't been able to use them until Windows 10, where Microsoft is forcing NVidia and AMD to allow it. (So if you want to run multiple GPUs, wait a bit for the next generation of technology and for now, just buy one faster Video Card, as it will meet your needs.)

Edited July 18, 2015 by MartinSPT

[Jayshames]

You need a pretty damn good PC to run SWTOR on max detail. SWTOR is one of the most poorly optimised games I've ever seen.

 

Sure, you can get max detail when patrolling the world, but as soon as you join any sort of fight you're going to get a hard FPS hit. Even top of the range computers.

 

But yeah, as a side note.. buy from a specialist store or make yourself. Don't buy from large company shops, those are overpriced for what you're getting. "Gaming" to them is Mine Sweeper and Pinball.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Jayshames

[JediQuaker]

There's a lot of misinformation and BS in this thread - plus some good advice. So, let me add to the mess with my opinions.

 

First of all, I wouldn't recommend building your own computer at this time. In spite of what some people say, it's not really significantly cheaper to build your own, and anything you may damage along the way can instantly eliminate any savings.

Of course, building your own is a lot more fun, and can give you a great sense of pride in your rig and if you are willing to try it, go for it. But I would suggest you start by taking apart and reassembling an old computer first - to get a feel for how things go together - and then maybe building a basic web-surfer rig for your parents or kids, etc, before tackling your own main rig.

The best compromise is to configure a rig through Dell, Cyberpower, iBuypower, etc.

 

Oh, and a note about overclocking - don't do it unless you know what your doing. The actual in-game benefits are not worth the bother, and things can become unstable over time, so that 6-months down the road you are wondering why things are crashing. (while forgetting it's OC'd). If I had a nickel for every time a problem was fixed by removing an overclock, I'd have at least 25 cents.

 

So, for what you want, and to cover all bases, here's what you should look for .,....

 

CPU - any Intel i5-4xxx. There is very little in-game performance difference between any i5, but of course, every little bit counts. There is no need for an i7. Even with an Intel i5, you will experience fps drops in busy areas such as OPs or PvP (in SWTOR) or WvW and events (in GW2), etc.

This is a matter of the number of items the CPU has to keep track of and is common to most MMOs. (It's not actually because the SWTOR engine sucks - it's just a function of the type of game.)

Info: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106.html

 

CPU cooler - if you don't overclock, the stock cooler will work fine, but for a slightly quieter rig I would suggest a basic cooler such as a CM Hyper TX3 or TX4. If you plan to overclock, then get a CM Hyper 212+ (or similar) or an all-in-one water cooler.

 

RAM - keep it simple - 8Gigs of DDR3-1600. You can get away with 4Gigs if cost is a factor, and 16Gigs is overkill at this time. Get 2 sticks of RAM (2 x 4Gigs) rather than 1 stick (1 x 8Gigs). (If the motherboard you get has only 2 RAM slots, however, I would suggest you get 2 x 8Gigs (16Gig total) for better future proofing)

 

Motherboard - for most people, using a single PCIe graphics card, and the usual number of USB peripherals and hard/SSD drives, a basic socket 1150 B85 or H97 board will do nicely, or you can go for Z97 if you want or need the features.

 

GPU - the minimum you should go for, if you want high-ish settings at 1920x1080, is a GTX-960 or R9 270X/370. Anything less will involve some graphics setting compromises. Anything better, is .... better.

Some handy info: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107.html

 

Power supply (PSU) - a basic 80+ bronze power supply such as a Corsair CX500, will do nicely. There is no real need to spend the extra on a "gold" or higher rated PSU as the few cents saved in electricity will never offset the extra cost.

Also, 500/550 watts is enough unless you go for a more power hungry GPU (or multiple GPUs).

On the other hand, it is best to get a quality PSU - be leery of the "standard" power supply that comes with some systems unless it states what the make and model is, and you can look it up.

 

SSD/HDD - an SSD is nice (once you have one you don't want to go back), but if money is tight, put the money into the CPU and GPU before getting an SSD. You can start with a basic hard drive and add an SSD later.

Unless you go overboard with game installs and large video files, 500Gig is enough for most people. Of course, it's most cost effective to get a 1TB hard drive, rather than a 500Gig, but a single 500Gig SSD would do fine.

The "sweet spot" may be a 250 Gig SSD for the OS and games, and a 1TB HDD for data (mp3, mpeg, etc).

 

Case, etc - whatever floats your boat. Just make sure that the case you get matches the motherboard, size-wise. (You can't stuff a full ATX mobo into an ITX case ).

Edited July 18, 2015 by JediQuaker

[Lundli]

4k UHD monitors can seriously affect frame rate. Go with a normal HD 1920x1080 display.

 

I'm running the game in 4k, all set to max except shadows and AA (don't need it)

This is on a 4790K, 970 GTX and 16 GB ram, it actually runs pretty decent except on Alderaan but that seems to be a special case

I'm not doing ops atm, I'm sure I'd have to turn things down if I did.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Lundli

[Origami]

i was planning on purchasing a new gaming computer. I've read many reviews about each big gaming company. I don't really know which computer to choose. I want one that can handle SWTOR on highest settings flawlessly. And I want it to be able to handle the upcoming Star Wars game, Battlefront. I also play Steam games on occasion, so I'd want it to be able to handle most big games on Steam. Thank you

 

Well, I have an MSI GT70 Dominator laptop with 32 gigs of ram, an NVIDIA graphics card with it's own dedicated memory, and an intel core i7 processor and am able to play SWTOR, SKYRIM, GTA 5 and all my other games maxed out.

[CheaterLL]

I'm running the game in 4k, all set to max except shadows and AA (don't need it)

This is on a 4790K, 970 GTX and 16 GB ram, it actually runs pretty decent except on Alderaan but that seems to be a special case

I'm not doing ops atm, I'm sure I'd have to turn things down if I did.

 

4k in ops you'll get framerates around 10 fps with medium settings, under 10 with what you have now.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I'm always dubious on these "advice" threads where the op doesn't respond at all to help participate in the discussion.

[Conundrum-NSA]

I'm always dubious on these "advice" threads where the op doesn't respond at all to help participate in the discussion.

 

Well most of them turn to crap...like this one. People giving all kinds of "advice" to buy things not needed or spend much more money on things not needed by most people.

[Roalmo]

Personally I recommend educating yourself and then building a computer. It's not nearly as hard or scary as it sounds and you will get much more bang for your buck.

 

Built my own, and just stopped doing so.

 

Large computer builders get deals on buying in bulk, so they can sell you the same build for less then you can get.

 

Plus here's the giant killer.. you get a great warranty, unlike one you build yourself.

 

Go see IBUYPOWER/Cyberpower/etc., I went with falcon northwest, but I did come into a bit of money .

[Conundrum-NSA]

Built my own, and just stopped doing so.

 

Large computer builders get deals on buying in bulk, so they can sell you the same build for less then you can get.

 

Plus here's the giant killer.. you get a great warranty, unlike one you build yourself.

 

Go see IBUYPOWER/Cyberpower/etc., I went with falcon northwest, but I did come into a bit of money .

 

Ummm...no.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Well most of them turn to crap...like this one. People giving all kinds of "advice" to buy things not needed or spend much more money on things not needed by most people.

 

I more meant how odd I find it that someone needing advice doesn't actually stay to participate in the thread they started.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Built my own, and just stopped doing so.

 

Large computer builders get deals on buying in bulk, so they can sell you the same build for less then you can get.

 

Plus here's the giant killer.. you get a great warranty, unlike one you build yourself.

 

Go see IBUYPOWER/Cyberpower/etc., I went with falcon northwest, but I did come into a bit of money .

 

You may very well be right in the USA but it's not the case for me at least. I can still buy the parts and build the PC for a few hundred cheaper than anywhere I see offering it pre-built.

 

And of course forget Dell/Alienware etc.

[Zoom_VI]

For just general buying? I bought a Gigabyte P37k laptop a couple weeks ago to replace my aging one, no issues with it at all. Runs all PvE content at 60 FPS even on ultra* settings and does 4v4 arenas at 40-50 FPS, and 8v8 warzones at 30 FPS (unless I'm frapsing then it's like 20 FPS iirc)

Obviously that's if you are looking for a laptop, which most don't want, since very few people need to have portable gaming systems.

There is the P**W and P**X if you want even more performance.

 

 

inb4 desktop elitists

 

*I did lower the shadow map resolution to it's minimum setting, and brought grass to 50. Am also running triple buffering + vsync which is gpu control panel setting and not a game setting.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[JokerThe]

From what I've read SWTOR is more CPU intensive than GPU intensive. Besides, I'm sure he wants to play other games too, not just one 4 year old MMO.

its very CPU intensive i have a gtx 970 and only 500+mbs are been used most of the time when i turn dsr to 2k jumps to 1+gb. i have i5 4690k @4.7ghz stable.

[pegasussgc]

There are a couple of options.

1. Build a PC - Here's an example build that would work well: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/pegasus912/saved/V7VgXL at $750, here's another at $1000 http://pcpartpicker.com/p/KcTWsY

2. Buy a pre-made, this is going to be less ideal but if you have the money it should be fine. You can try originpc, mainpower or something like that. It's going to be considerably more expensive than building your own, but it's an option.