Arena won't be implemented with data supporting

[Badlander]

This. Arena has always been a garbage PvP format.

 

Way too much gimmicky sandbox. The format just translates really poorly to an MMORPG.

 

 

SWTOR will never be a PvP game. The game is not designed for it, similar to WoW (although WoW put so much effort into it after the fact that it can grudgingly be said to have some PvP).

 

Don't get your expectations up and just play SWTOR PvP casually.

 

 

Then explain why Bio has hired a full team to work on nothing but PVP.

 

"We plan to continue releasing Flashpoints, Operations, Warzones and new pvp game systems on a regular cadence."

Edited December 29, 2011 by Badlander

[Killadrix]

This is only partly true. If you love arena so much, why would you sub to a game that doesn't have it? I dunno sounds like a flimsy argument, but your points are not totally off. I am a little disappointed with the space battles in this game though.

 

Because if someone is bored with the game in general or something new comes out they want to try it doesn't mean they are not participating in Arena because arena is unpopular.

 

Sorry, I just hate it when people say "herpa derp can't argue with statistics" then completely ignore 2-3 confounding variables.

[Celebrus]

Then explain why Bio has hired a full team to work on nothing but PVP.

 

Because it's part of the game? Why would they hire an art team if this game isn't going to be focused around painting pictures yoooo gaaaaaaiizzzz?

[Killadrix]

Then explain why Bio has hired a full team to work on nothing but PVP.

 

We plan to continue releasing Flashpoints, Operations, Warzones and new pvp game systems on a regular cadence.

 

While I agree that they SAID this - I'm just not seeing it.

[Izini]

Arena was a failure Blizzard even admitted it. People who like small scale battles aren't any more hardcore than people who like 8v8 and larger. Besides this is a team game its about working together in large numbers, its a massive multi-player online game therefore its designed for larger scale battles. People want to play along side many others, that is what a MMO is all about.

 

If you're all about the very small scale with rpg gameplay then there are games out there being designed around being so, like WAR: Wrath of Heros. A MMO isn't for you.

[Killadrix]

Arena was a failure Blizzard even admitted it. People who like small scale battles aren't any more hardcore than people who like 8v8 and larger. Besides this is a team game its about working together in large numbers, its a massive multi-player online game therefore its designed for larger scale battles. People want to play along side many others, that is what a MMO is all about.

 

If you're all about the very small scale with rpg gameplay then there are games out there being designed around being so, like WAR: Wrath of Heros. A MMO isn't for you.

 

Oh dear God, they did not admit it.

 

You people need to really give it up.

[Hydrott]

Statistics show 60% of the blacks in US have a criminal record. Does that mean we should start ignoring them as well??

Also, do keep in mind that Blizzard made Arenas absolete so its only natural that people stop participating.

[Cadivus]

Arenas alienated players from WoW(myself included) to the point i only logged on wednesdays for points then log back off to the further point of canceling my sub.Now that is sad for a PvP'er...Push World PvP.Push BG's! That's where it's at(The Cream).

[Celebrus]

Oh dear God, they did not admit it.

 

You people need to really give it up.

 

Yes, they basically said either the game needed to be built, from the ground up, for arena, or they should have scrapped the project altogether. They didn't outright say it was a failure, but they said "It may have been a mistake."

 

The fact that they felt that way about arena is probably why they implemented rated BGS. The masses would rather be in BGs, while the minority hardcore venom spewers would rather be in arenas. They would rather give their players a rated BG system than award failure in order to bribe you into trudging through your 10 matches per week.

 

No thanks.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Celebrus

[murkin]

For the people who oppose arenas go back to your dungeons. There is a lot more people than you think who are for or in support of arenas.

 

You have what you want in game. I think it's time us competitive PvPers receive ours

[poofz]

Sigh this thread again....

 

The reasoning why arenas in WoW didn't work out is simple.

 

1: Blizzard sucks *** at balancing. Seriously a monkey with mental retardation could have done a better job. The fact that BW have started on the right track for PVP and PVe balance (Separating the two) suggests they might be better then this.

 

2: 2v2 and 3v3 could never be balanced. Adding these game modes was a big mistake. Every game has a sweet spot in regards to person skill/teamwork. Add too many players and you get a zerg v zerg skilless action (Basically anything more then 6-8 players in most games). Too few and class rock paper scissors comes into play (This varies from as low as 1 to 5 in most games). In team class based games, the sweet spot is generally between 4-6.

 

3: Blizzard never really did anything with it past their initial push. To foster a esport, you need a strong indepth gameplay, tournies, and a good spectator experience. Aside from the first one (combat in WoW and their spell tree system is nice), Blizzard failed hard. Their half assed MLG support and lack of real spectator functions made the arena a failure as a esport.

 

4: Blizzard stopped supporting it: In a game where gear meant everything, blizzard pussied out and tried to stop arena by removing most of the appeal of its rewards.

 

And why could arena (Or some kind of 5v5 type of PVP?) work in SWTOR?

 

1: Arena doesn't cause imbalance. All it does is high light it. In WZ and WPVP, the huge mixture of randomness means balance has very little to do with who wins or loses. You have under leveled under skilled, under geared players mixed in with the best of the best. It's the equivalent of trying to determine the best football formations from a playground game. It's such a cluster**** that nothing really matters.

 

However in a Arena, with its matchmaking and high skill dependence, class balance plays a huge part. Which is where the misconception comes from that arena ruins balance. All it does is give hard proof that X is OP and Y is UP. not to mention casuals don't like seeing in pure numbers how much they suck.

 

2: Things are looking good on BW's part. Lets not beat around the bush. The 30% PVP only healing nerf was a huge step forwards in MMO balance. Even if you don't agree with it, you have to agree that BW has basically surpassed a stumbling block of understanding that most MMO's never reach: PVE and PVP needs to be done separately. Might seem simple but most companies lack basic common sense.

 

3: Esports is big money. Millions of people watch esports. Millions of people who might never want to play a MMO will generate advertising avenue (+ additional subs). Throw in possibility of deals with gaming companies (MLG SWTOR themed keyboards anyone?). Heck this is asia we're talking about. The only thing Asians love more then MMO's, is Esports.

 

4: You maintain the hardcore PVP playerbase that has been crying out for a new game. Hardcore PVE players are mostly satisfied with WoW to some extent (Worst case: They can stop leveling at 60 and do all the vannila stuff). However PVP and MMO's never really seem to go well together.

 

Would arena be easy. No. But name me one good thing that's easy? Do you really think it was easy adding that much voice acting into the game? Yet I'm sure everyone leveling would thank BW for taking that effort. The question isn't should BW make arena, it's more Are they a big and awesome enough company to do this? That answer will come up over the coming months.

 

Sir, just shut up and take my money already!

 

This is a perfect explanation. We like arena because it is less random, its no fun to have to decide whether to engage or not based on number of players/etc. Its fun to worry about position and not solely team presence.

[Xploits]

I understand that there are serious balance issues with arenas, but keep in mind that some classes and specific specs were made for either PvP or PvE. You wouldn't take a frost mage or a rogue to a raid so why take a warrior to an arena? Though some classes like paladins excel in both.

 

No. You are talking from ignorance. Don't mistake the outcome with the intentions.

[PurveyorOfTruth]

I don't care about Arenas per se, but the deathmatch kiddies need a place to go and let off some of their PvP steam. I'm tired of idiots playing objective based PvP as it were deathmatch.

[poofz]

I don't care about Arenas per se, but the deathmatch kiddies need a place to go and let off some of their PvP steam. I'm tired of idiots playing objective based PvP as it were deathmatch.

 

Yes do, I promise you wont have to participate in it if you dont want to.

[Daedricshots]

Arena destroyed every aspect of fun in wow because it all comes down to OP comps. Id rather see this game encourage more world pvp instead of facerolling fotm classes for free gear.

[poofz]

Arena destroyed every aspect of fun in wow because it all comes down to OP comps. Id rather see this game encourage more world pvp instead of facerolling fotm classes for free gear.

 

It doesnt have to give free gear. It could be a focus on wpvp, but give the option to those who want it. You dont have to participate. I understand if it gives them a huge advantage over wpvpers, but it should be on par if not yielding nongear rewards, but that doesnt mean it shouldnt be implemented.

[NoxiousAlby]

I have just have one thing to say, would you continue playing pve if they never came up with new content? look at arenas... not one new "arena" the balance is the worst its ever been, so how can you say People don't want to play it when Blizzard is the one who ruined it, they have put much more effort into BGs and rbgs so thats where many of the arena players went! its funny how you try and sound intelligent and take ur time righting a good size post about arena, when most people that want "arena" just want a fair even matched game with a couple of there friends against others that want that, They could at least put Rated War Zones, Let you Q with a full group, premades! etc...

 

I'm sure rated warzones as well as warzones exclusively for premades will come eventually. It will just take a bit of time

[Izini]

Do people actually think that an MMO has been or will be an E-Sport? Its a joke to me and just about everyone that talks about E-Sport here doesn't know what it really is. Edited December 29, 2011 by Izini

[poofz]

Let them think its an esport and let them have fun. You dont have to participate.

[Daedricshots]

It doesnt have to give free gear. It could be a focus on wpvp, but give the option to those who want it. You dont have to participate. I understand if it gives them a huge advantage over wpvpers, but it should be on par if not yielding nongear rewards, but that doesnt mean it shouldnt be implemented.

 

Sorry but I, like many others, play this game to get away from the garbage that wow has become. We dont need to bring everything here that wow has. If thats the case then go back to playing wow and let this game evolve into its own thing.

 

So many people caught up in trying to make this game another wow clone.

[poofz]

We want it to be better then wow. The balance here off the bat is amazing. The story and lore is rich. We want to participate in all that and have the option to compete in small team sizes. We dont have to be rewarded for that, but it wouldnt hurt you to let BW appeal to a larger audience. There were tons of players from SW:G, WoW, and other mmos waiting for a new mmo, why not let this be the mmo. It should be OPTIONAL and give no advantage, but how does it hurt you in anyway to let them have a ladder to see their progress in a deathmatch. You dont have to participate

[Wildfae]

Let them think its an esport and let them have fun. You dont have to participate.

 

Ok and what would happen is the "hardcore PvPers" as you people call it, would ***** about class balance in arenas. And Devs would be compelled to make bad decisions to balance it out .. and via that string of events it does affect other people not interested in Arena. that is the problem. That is the argument.

[poofz]

BW has been very smart about this so far, im sure they will do a great job. They are making a lot of clear distinctions between pvp and pve. For example a lot of abilites affect different targets differently, knocking back certain weak mobs but not strong mobs etc. 30% healing reduction in pvp. Making certain abilites/effects not work on players and certain abilites not usable in the arenas. Im sure they will do fine at keeping the two aspects of the game separate without affecting class balance outside of the arenas. Edited December 29, 2011 by poofz

[EasymodeX]

You have what you want in game. I think it's time us competitive PvPers receive ours

 

The top 0.05% of arena players are 'competitive PvPers'. The rest is trash gimmick re-rollers.

 

Arena is the ***-end subset of PvP.

 

 

Pretty sure they should focus their efforts the PvP issues that are affecting the vast majority of the players and tuning the framework they've already built:

 

 

- Priority matchmaking for level 50s versus level 50s.

- Priority matchmaking for premade vs. premade.

- UI frames working effectively for healthbars / healers.

- Dual targeting (I'm not holding my breath).

- Better focus targeting since devs are too ****-retarded to use the excellent dual targeting system from Warhammer.

- Better target reticles in general.

- UI ability glitches with the ability queuing (even when your queue is set to 0 seconds).

- Target Nearest actually working holy ****.

- Tab targeting working on targets in your camera view, prioritizing nearest and then center. Not based on your avatar's LOS.

- Removing the mandatory 'smart camera' ********.

- Better variety of Warzones, specifically including a Warzone that is actually about fighting other players, not retarded c****** gimmicks. Current Warzone "winning" methods are 90% non-PvP, and only 10% about actual fighting.

- Primitive macro system to reduce the UI / ability clutter by combining similar / semi-redundant abilities, or no-brainer priorities (no WoW-level decision logic in the macros though, FFS).

- Nerf the RNG of PvP rewards.

- Add gimmicky reward **** to Ilum (things already suggested like adding Merc comm chests) so that it's not purely a flip rotation event.

- Add serious rewards to Ilum, like ownership of the zone = 10% more damage and heals in all Warzones for that faction.

 

 

Make those fixes and the base PvP system would be twice as good. Then you can get on with more complex things like wondering why companions have zero kiting logic when they are integral to small scale open PvP, changing acid pit damage to true damage that bypasses general passive mitigations (including raw damage mitigation abilities and guard), the amount of Resolve that a root should really give, why WoW and WAR have stricter CC penalties than SWTOR, and a host of other more subtle things.

[poofz]

Yes arenas are definately not a top priority issue. First take care of the bugs/general game but i would like to see them in the future once the hot issues that affect everyone are fixed.