Operations and Flashpoints in Fallen Empire

[mad_freeman]

I support this for flashpoints as well (all of them, not just ones on the solo list)!

And btw, as solo player I would welcome solo version of two last Dread Master operations (on Oricon). This would be truly awesome!

you whatm8? is it some kind of way to troll here? if not then visit doctor to check up your brain:rak_02:

[NigeldeJ]

Kinda curious to see how they plan on spreading out 1 tier of gear over 9(I think) operations, and a few instanced ops bosses. Probably gonna be a long grind.

 

But hey, they gotta come up with something to make up for their lack of endgame content

 

I kinda get the fact that they won't release an operations while they're in the middle of their grand story telling thingy, but no new WZ's? That's lame. From the looks of it, we're getting plenty of new areas to explore, surely they can at least put in 1 or 2 new WZ's at the new locations? It's not like you have to make 5 operation bosses, mechanics included. Heck, even a simple Domination(excuse my Call of Duty vocabulaire, couldn't think of a better word) or a straight up Deathmatch would be a sight for sore eyes. And I'm sure that 1 map doesn't take nearly as long to make compared to all the ''individualized stories'' they're gonna write and make.

 

If they'd go totally freaky, I'm sure a ''Capture the Flag'' kind of game mode isn't unthinkable. But alas, I'm not on Bioware's creative team, so who am I?

[Nomaad]

...

..BW, stop thinking your doing a great job by doing this.

 

FAIL.

[GalacticStarfigh]

No new GSF content. No new Flashpoints. No new Operations. No new Warzones. 10 million costing, 4 mins lasting daddy issues CGI. Cool.

 

I missed the note where it was decided video games don't need relevant gameplay anymore.

 

If this approach isn't enough to kill the MMO..I don't know what will.

 

How in ever living frak can Bioware have this much faith in their talking heads, I'll never understand. Seriously, when has the narrative in this game ever been that great? If you reply with " Vanilla" I can perfectly understand, if not agree. But Hutt, Revan, Emperor? It is mystifying people actually care if they get more of this stuff.

 

 

This is awful and ridiculous.

[MissButtercup]

I have done all of the old raids to the point of being absolutely sick of their bosses, locale, and mechanics. I don't want to be forced to do that content again if I want to keep playing this game at endgame, and it seems to me that a lot of other players feel that way too. Those old flashpoints and operations have nothing to do with your current story and ruin your wonderful transition from leveling by playing through the story and wrapping it up by defeating endgame content in the form of a flashpoint or operation. Your immersion is totally wrecked by the fact we are going off and killing these bosses whose story have nothing to do with your epic new direction.

 

I understand that there's logic behind catering to new players that desire a chance to experience the old content as fresh and challenging, but you forgot about your long time subscribers who have given you ridiculous amounts of money over the last almost four years through monthly fees and the cartel market. You're forgetting about your basis of veteran players who make up the core of endgame pvp and pve content, and for what? To entice new players who are probably just using this game as an escape from WoW for a month or two? New players will jump on the hype wagon for this expansion, then realize that this game doesn't get enough new content and leave. There's a reason these new players haven't played this game over the past four years, and it baffles me as to why you're choosing to cater to them now.

Edited July 9, 2015 by MissButtercup

[alexhimbur]

"I’m George Smith, Senior Designer in charge of Operations and Flashpoints and I am here to talk to you a little bit about what Knights of the Fallen Empire has in store for you."

 

Read More

 

This is absolutely disappointing. People have spent months and years playing this game because they loved new operations and raiding with friends. But as any top tier pve player can tell you, doing the same content you've mastered, though with friends, is not fun. But I guess it really doesn't matter to EA or Bioware because once those subs unsub, they won't have to worry about our opinions. Regardless, I'm unsubbing until there is challenging, new content. Not recycled content.

[Danw]

This is what you get when metrics are read by people who have no idea what an MMO is and what is required for people to subscribe and stay subscribed.

 

$15 every 4 months saves me $45 in subs and $200 in CC every 4 months, so i can see the story all at once...

 

Snave said it best "Just because I go to work everyday and spend the majority of my time there does not mean it what I want to do". He said it better

[kukumburr]

I'm very happy about this. I hate it when fps/ops become completely obsolete, especially the story-focused ones. I like that this game is trying to make story first and foremost. I don't think they should completely give up on making new raids but quite frankly World of Warcraft has and probably always will do raids way better, so SWTOR should focus on what it's good at instead of trying to woo the hardcore raider crowd. If they do add more raids/fps in the future they should focus on making them fun, easily accessible, and give them a compelling story line. But anyways I'm glad their revamping the old content instead of just letting it rot since some of them are pretty interesting story wise.

[Pietrastor]

We may as well all unsubscribe until October, resubscribe for a month to get the first nine chapters and buy a few Ops passes (they're on sale currently, btw) and clear out the 65 Ops in a couple of raid cycles before moving on to another game.

 

Raiders in nutshell, making MMOs fail since 2004 except WOW.

[Baron_amiral]

Winter is coming without operations

 

bye bioware .

[Crimus]

you guys at Bioware really don't have any idea of what your current player base wants...it's totally ridiculous and your comments about reading forums and trying to give the players what they want is proved false every time you guys actually do something to live game.

 

with this announcement, you guys actually confirmed what most of the naysayers were afraid you were going to do.. Grats on ending everyone in my guilds, including my own 3 year cancer that has been SWTOR, we kept hanging on in hopes that you'd listen to the community, but mostly just because it's Star Wars. I wasn't sure my friends were going to follow me to The Repopulation, now I am.

[MWidowmaker]

personally i like the changes... prerelease subscriber too

[Crimus]

This is also exactly the opposite of what your paying customer base feels like they were paying for..I highly doubt anyone with a sub was giving you money in hopes that you'd make old farmed stuff current again instead of coming out with new elder game. I feel like you've been stealing our money for months now. It's time to make this game completely free to play, make everyone a sub at zero cost, refund the last 3 months of subs and you can think about re-introducing monthly fees when you have new end game content, not old recycled stuff we've paid for over and over again.

 

I'm contacting my bank to report that I canceled my sub three months ago but you guys kept charging me in order to get my money back. I suggest the rest of the player base follow suit. I'd ask for more than 3 months, but I know that's all my bank/visa policy covers when it comes to monthly subs.

[Darth-Malice]

Bioware you dun goofed. Are you trying to destroy your game? You are the most incompetent half arsed development team in the history of MMO's. This makes TESO look like a well balanced and thought out game. You've lost my Sub and the sub's of hundreds of other people.

[LJ_Gibbs]

This is also exactly the opposite of what your paying customer base feels like they were paying for..I highly doubt anyone with a sub was giving you money in hopes that you'd make old farmed stuff current again instead of coming out with new elder game. .

 

I think there is the key there. Sure I am happy we are getting this new Chapter stuff... but then what? I know not everyone does endgame stuff, but there is only so many times you can run through the same stories before you get bored out of your mind.

[Sangiban]

The level sync system reminds of one system in City of Heroes (I think it was called mentoring) where you grouped with a lower level player and were dropped down to their level. So this isn't something without precedent and I'm with it. I'm not a big fan of the class specific loot drops; as that means that if a SW piece drops without any SWs in group, no one can use it for themselves. Which is frankly a waste of gear. The way gear drops lead from Tactical/SM FPs to HM FPs to SM Ops is a bit schizophrenic so here's hoping we get some rational gear lead ins; ie HM FPs no longer drop 184s when SM Ops require 186.

 

Red Reaper finally getting a hardmode is great to hear, I eagerly look forward to throwing myself at that first mob in sheer masochism. No sarcasm intended. I am genuinely happy we're getting a HM Red Reaper even as I hate doing that first pull. Here's hoping Colicoid War Games hasn't gone unnoticed and will get a HM too. The Esseless/Black Talon, Revan, and Ilum FPs getting a solo mode is great to hear since I won't have to skip them or let the Ilum quest chain go unfinished. The other leveling FPs getting a tactical mode is also good to hear since queue times will be much lower.

 

Personally I feel like recycling content, while a cheap way to keep it relevant, works at keeping it relevant. I like the idea of running EV at 65 and getting decent gear drops in it. It keeps old content relevant and that's what they were aiming for. It is a shame to hear no new operations with the launch of KOTFE, though I can imagine them introducing new ones down the line. Since their reasoning is to fix the current end game content (50-60) before making new things, I'm interested to see how they fix it. Ideally by the time they finish fixing it, they'll be ready to work on new ops.

 

I'm actually feeling optimistic to see what's coming next.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Sangiban

[LJ_Gibbs]

The level sync system reminds of one system in City of Heroes (I think it was called mentoring) where you grouped with a lower level player and were dropped down to their level.

 

Yes! The sidekick system... I miss CoH.

 

Exemplar was the drop of level.

[Ghisallo]

Raiders in nutshell, making MMOs fail since 2004 except WOW.

 

So why did the biggest failures in MMOs revolve around the lack of endgame.

 

I think, to an extent, the myth that is WoW created a false mtric. WoW is the ONLY MMO to sustain millions of subs...note I said MMO, MOBA's need not apply. What you as a player consider successful and what investors consisder successful are 2 VERY different things. Investors don't need to see millions of subs... they need to see an ROI.

 

EQ was successful and never got beyond 6 figures subwise. EQ2 was considered a success as well in terms of ROI...until roughly 2009 and 2010 and really it only started dropping off when Smedly did what he always does... rather than saying "we are doing pretty good" he started chasing the rabbit that was WoW. He forgot that he had over 3/4 of a million subscriptions because it WASN'T WoW.

 

These games only seem unsuccessful if you compare it to WoW. Doing that though is like saying Porsche fails because it does not sell as many cars as VW.

 

It is simply a fact that when you remove marketing SNAFUs (Wildstar and EoS) and bugs (Secret World) the third biggest killer of MMOs has been the lack of end game BECAUSE Endgame is not a hardcore or casual thing. I used to be a CRAZY hardcore progression raider. 3am wake up calls for contested mobs spawning, 4 days a week, 4 hours at a clip WITH the raid leader being able to fiat call a 1 hour extension if we were close to downing a progression mob.

 

I have a career now, a wife and it takes more time in the gym, running and on the bike to stay fit in your 40's. So my guild now has a couple OPs teams, each of which raids ONE night a wee for 2 hours. We are casual as all get out. Guess what? A LOTof these casual players are VERY disappointed. Why, because when the story ends we need something to do that doesn't feel like we have done it 100 times already.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Ghisallo

[SithEmpress]

I for one like most of the changes and I have been a player from day one. I’m sad the raider didn’t get any new content but the fact is there is a reason they chose to skip the operations for other content. If it was as important as some people are making it out to be they would be focusing there efforts on new operations/pvp. People claiming that raiders are the loyal and longer term player are just making assumptions, that there way of playing the game is more important. I’ve played since day one and I’ve never drop my sub but I also have never done the operations. I know I’m not the only one and that doesn’t make me less of a loyal and long term player. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a lot of long term and loyal players who never do operations.

 

As others have point out there has been a lot of data from other game showing that operations/raids are not done by the majority of the players. Am I saying they shouldn’t do them at all, no. I know many raiders who defeated the new operation and then drop the game till the next operation; this is no different than people who burn through the story. No matter which way you go with these type of players, they can’t be pleased because they will burn through the content too fast. What you want to do is keep the casual gamer who doesn’t complete everything new in the first month interested in hanging around. Of course that just my thought and they could be wrong.

 

Question I have are, with new solo operation will I be able to get decorations? Will I be able to have a friend tag along in solo mode, if I want to without it turning into a tactical flashpoints? What about those not include on the list are they just staying the same. Overall I’m happy there making the old content useful again and I can get my own loot when doing flashpoint etc.

Edited July 9, 2015 by SithEmpress

[hooty]

I like this plan. Make a whole bunch of woefully underutilized content relevant again. Presumably this serves a larger portion of the player base than developing new operations at this point. Once they are getting some bang for the buck out of the revamped old content, then add some new operations.

[TheSeventhJedi]

Achievements, mounts, and decos to chase with the promise of relevant rewards? I might get back into ops. I gave up a couple months ago because I just didn't care about the grind anymore.

[Ghisallo]

I for one like most of the changes and I have been a player from day one. I’m sad the raider didn’t get any new content but the fact is there is a reason they chose to skip the operations for other content. If it was as important as some people are making it out to be they would be focusing there efforts on new operations/pvp. People claiming that raiders are the loyal and longer term player are just making assumptions, .

 

Again falling into the trope that raiders are somehow this small hardcore group.

 

People need to stop thinking "raid" and think "endgame". Here is why.

 

An MMO, whether f2p, subscription or hybrid like here, requires the SAME people to play. The rate at which an MMO 2-3 years and older can bring in is pretty small. How do you keep those players interested in playing? They need something to do after the story ends.

 

Why do you think they are phasing in the last 7 chapters of the story? they have developed a LIMITED amount of new content and know if they gave it to us all at once we would be done it no later than December with nothing to do. The problem with this theory however is simply illustrated by the freak out people had over a 2 week wait for Ziost. This will be 4 weeks between chapters, not 2 weeks...spread out over 7 months. This is a MAJOR Gamble.

 

The purpose of endgame, whether it be Dungeon/FPs or Raids/Ops is to have something for players to do when they are done that story... there is simply NO way for them to make enough new solo content to stop a bleed and the altaholics are the true minority in these games.

 

I know people have an axe to grind against "elitist raiders" and it makes a convenient dodge to use them as the target of any defense of this plan, BUT if you bother to look at the MMO's that have succeeded and failed since the genre came out, when it comes to PvE, those with endgame lived and those without had issues. No assumptions about it, that is a simple fact.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Icestar]

Atleast it is fun for new players.

[Lorrimar]

What part of "I don't want to fight the Dread Masters for another 12 months" do you not understand?

 

This, so much this. As someone who has played since right after launch, I have seen SM of every op in the game, HM on 80% or more of them & even NiM on several. I DO NOT wish to keep doing the same ops I have cleared again and again for the last few years. It looks like I will have to find another MMO to give my 15 bucks to each month.

[SebastiaanZ]

Atleast it is fun for new players.

 

Maybe Bioware cares about new players, but I don't. I want content relevant for me, and scaled up old content is NOT relevant for me.