All I Want for 4.0: Ranked Objective WZs

[Saikochoro]

Personally, I would prefer a straight 1v1 system for ranked, matched by class and role. So jugg tank vs jugg tank, merc dps vs merc dps, etc. That would be the only true display of personal skill as it would be completely balanced. But that's just me reminescing Lineage 2s Olympiad system

 

8v8 would be more fun and would allow class balance to work better than Arenas, but it would also allow bad players to get carried to high elo 10x easier than in an Arena. Off the top of my head, I can think of 4 reg matches today where I witnessed an operative sitting in stealth the whole match in huttball and civil war just to finish his daily, he contributed nothing at all, ended the game with 3 medals (defender medals from afking) and we still won the match, so he got completely carried.

 

In regs, I don't care about that scenario. If that were ranked however, it would be highly annoying, and it would be SO much easier for people to AFK their way to tier one than it is now since a 3v4 arena is basically a lost arena for the team of 3.

 

I would support 8v8, but only if it were restricted to teams only and a solo queue option wasn't available because I hate leeches.

 

I honestly wish there was a better vote kick system. I know it would be abused, but the afkers infuriate me.

[xAgonyyy]

No that would be arenas and the wasted effort in class balance around arenas.

 

um no that would make the game actually balanced, if they legitimately balance it purely around areans

[Raansu]

um no that would make the game actually balanced, if they legitimately balance it purely around areans

 

Balancing around arenas is the reason the class balances is complete mess right now. Arenas are fun and I do enjoy them at times, but even Blizzard admitted that adding arenas to pvp was a mistake as it is 100% impossible to balance a pure deathmatch around a class based game. It is the reason why Valve said they will NEVER add deathmatching to TF2. It just doesn't work.

[KingKalbo]

PVP game is dead until EA puts some development cash into it( If ever). Maybe the new movies will give them the drive to do it; but I doubt it will go toward any PVP development of any kind. I will say as far a 1v1 scenarios go; snipe v snipe, merc v merc, and mara v mara would always be entertaining.

[xAgonyyy]

Balancing around arenas is the reason the class balances is complete mess right now. Arenas are fun and I do enjoy them at times, but even Blizzard admitted that adding arenas to pvp was a mistake as it is 100% impossible to balance a pure deathmatch around a class based game. It is the reason why Valve said they will NEVER add deathmatching to TF2. It just doesn't work.

 

Wrong. They never balance this game around areans that's like the sole reason why swtor is joke of a game in the pvp balancing aspect. Instead of listening to ppl who actually do 4s the devs chose to listen to random pve scrubs and casuals and made this game easier than it should

Edited July 5, 2015 by xAgonyyy

[Raansu]

Wrong. They never balance this game around areans that's like the sole reason why swtor is joke of a game in the pvp balancing aspect. Instead of listening to ppl who actually do 4s the devs chose to listen to random pve scrubs and casuals and made this game easier than it should

 

Ya thats not true at all but whatever.

[Psychopyro]

Wrong. They never balance this game around areans that's like the sole reason why swtor is joke of a game in the pvp balancing aspect. Instead of listening to ppl who actually do 4s the devs chose to listen to random pve scrubs and casuals and made this game easier than it should

 

Listen to PvE players... yea w/e. You have no idea what you're talking about. The problem is they keep TRYING to balance around arenas and are failing. So much so that some classes are really starting to feel the pain in PvE.

[Raansu]

Listen to PvE players... yea w/e. You have no idea what you're talking about. The problem is they keep TRYING to balance around arenas and are failing. So much so that some classes are really starting to feel the pain in PvE.

 

Nah the real problem is they listen to no one, doesn't matter if its pve or pvp. 80 pages of feedback for annihilation spec for marauders and the developers did the exact opposite of what everyone was giving feedback on, effectively making the spec worse lol.

[Psychopyro]

Nah the real problem is they listen to no one, doesn't matter if its pve or pvp. 80 pages of feedback for annihilation spec for marauders and the developers did the exact opposite of what everyone was giving feedback on, effectively making the spec worse lol.

 

Yea but the PvP metrics were "in a good place" and Marauders where "where they felt they should be".

 

I didn't say they listened to PvP players, I said they balance around arenas. They've made it very clear all they look at is their "metrics". I've been down this road before, if they start listening to their metrics all the time, it's gonna be a short trip.

[Raansu]

Yea but the PvP metrics were "in a good place" and Marauders where "where they felt they should be".

 

I didn't say they listened to PvP players, I said they balance around arenas. They've made it very clear all they look at is their "metrics". I've been down this road before, if they start listening to their metrics all the time, it's gonna be a short trip.

 

I know what you said, and I agree, I'm just saying BW is full of arrogant idiots.

[SlightlySychotic]

um no that would make the game actually balanced, if they legitimately balance it purely around areans

 

That's the thing: arenas can't be balanced. That's not saying they don't have the skill or that they're doing it wrong, it is not possible in a class-based game. Class-based games typically rely on counter-class and contextual superiority -- certain classes have advantages over certain other classes (and weaknesses to others) and/or are stronger in a given context (eg. stealth classes are better defenders than ranged DPS). Arenas focus almost exclusively on a single context meaning that classes that excel at that context have an innate advantage, typically bring them up on even footing with classes that they would be weak too (especially if those classes are weak in that context).

 

Seriously, name one other game that does arenas with a class/role based system and, more importantly, do them well.

[waterboytkd]

I would support 8v8, but only if it were restricted to teams only and a solo queue option wasn't available because I hate leeches.

 

Thing is, when 8v8 ranked is restricted to teams, it doesn't pop. At all. That's why they canned it.

 

Personally, I'd rather they bring back 8v8, but open the queue up to anyone, from party sizes 1-8. Don't like PUGing vs Premades? Hey, you knew what you were getting into when you queued ranked.

 

Sure, there's the chance of leeches, but I think that's a small price for a queue that actually pops.

 

Plus, if they went that route with ranked, they could actually balance the classes enough that "class balance" isn't an issue. Sure, there might be some imbalance, but in 8v8s, the game is messy enough that it's hard to pick out.

 

Besides, ideally I'd rather see rating tied to performance than exclusively wins and losses; a player who gets lucky being carried still wouldn't have as good a rating as a contributing player with the same win/loss record.

Also, to be perfectly blunt, I consider that a more than agreeable trade off if it means that classes that are unviable in arenas have a chance to play ranked.

 

I like the idea of rating being based off something other than win/loss. But it would have to be more than just objectives (like guarding or capping), because a match comes down to a lot more than that. A Marauder that spends his time killing dudes to try and keep a node clear for a capture is just as vital to that node capture as the one doing the actual capping.

 

The only problem there is people could farm "rating points" or whatever it is. Ie, say dealing X amount of damage in Y time gets you rating points, or dealing X% of a players health in Y time, or something like that, helps build your rating, it could encourage players to farm damage and deathmatch rather than play the objectives (a thing that happens now, when there is no incentive for it).

 

But maybe it could be more complex, like "Dealing X damage while within Y meters of an objective", or "within Y meters of an ally toggling an objective". I don't know.

 

But I like the idea of contributing towards the objectives (and thus victory) earns you rating, rather than just being on the winning team.

[Pherdnut]

While we're at it, give us an opt-out in regs too. Solo 4v4 is rarely fun or interesting as a gunslinger.

[Tamanous]

While we're at it, give us an opt-out in regs too. Solo 4v4 is rarely fun or interesting as a gunslinger.

 

I feel ya ... but leveling a scoundrel (main is Op) and now that they don't entirely suck at anything outside of healing pvp including arena is rather fun. I still want them rare on rotation.

 

The answer to sniper/slinger (I have both. I only play smuggler/agent) is to actually provide them with a defense against the initial focus. I am hoping the new ability they get when cap raises addressed this directly. All it takes is for the other team to know that a rush focus on a slinger/sniper isn't a worthy tactic.

 

The whole ranked warzone back story is hillarious. Bioware promised it before arena was ever talked about (in fact they always leaned toward not creating arena) then suddenly *POOF* they give us arena and told us ranked warzones wouldn't happen. No warning at all. Pvp has sucked because of it ever since because an mmo with diverse classes NEVER fits arena that only befits certain class types in every game ever created. Then you have all the balance issues impacting pve and even larger scale pvp (not that this game an even support large scale pvp).

 

Why was this done? Because their queue system cannot handle matching 8 man teams because the Swtor doesn't have a global queue (All of NA or EU) to pull from. It will never happen until a global queue is created. Bioware made a near single player game and converted it into an mmo ... and the game has suffered from it every since.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Tamanous

[Vashadan]

PvP is a minigame, always keep that in mind. Back when we had 8vs8 ranked ppl got fed up with seeing the same ppl, the same wzs and the same lack of attention on feedback coming from those who mostly played this minigame directed at those who held and still hold the future of Swtor in their hands. IMO it was a great move by BW to kill ranked wzs, not only cutting down those who asked for more content but also limiting the reasons for ppl to ask for a bigger playerbase, i.e. mega/crossserver.

The introduction of arenas was followed by handing out trinkets for those who would devote their time to a reduced minigame, which also mocked the term of what ranked PvP stood for, devoid of a larger impact on teamplay on a twice as big a scale, leaving mainly the win/defeat mentality that works in favor of the trinket system.

The fact ppl not only chase these trinkets but are also proud and happy to be nearer the top in a competitive surrounding split apart amongst servers speaks volumes about how BW solified PvP as a minigame and provided for themselves not only an excuse for choosing the game engine but also everything that brought them profit, aswell as the much called diversity ppl called for, or maybe did not i.e. GSF.

Not to string this out but personally I would love for 8vs8 to be introduced back into the game but those of you who were patient and bothered reading the above...think you get the picture.

[Raazmir]

Make solo ranked 8v8, the randomness of matchmaking is mitigated by the objective based pvp, and people generally seem to prefer at least certain objective WZ.

 

Make team ranked arenas. Easier to put together a team of 4.

[Raansu]

Make solo ranked 8v8, the randomness of matchmaking is mitigated by the objective based pvp, and people generally seem to prefer at least certain objective WZ.

 

Make team ranked arenas. Easier to put together a team of 4.

 

Ugh no, no more solo ranked. I want 8v8 ranked back but making a solo queue would be absolutely terrible. Granted it wouldn't be anywhere near the scale of 4v4's bad but it would still be bad.

[Lundorff]

Ranked 8v8? As in premade 8 vs premade 8? Are there anywhere near enough players for that? I think we need cross server for that.

 

1 vs 1 death match based on professions would be perfectly doable. Would be great to test how good or terrible you really are.

[Raansu]

Ranked 8v8? As in premade 8 vs premade 8? Are there anywhere near enough players for that? I think we need cross server for that.

 

1 vs 1 death match based on professions would be perfectly doable. Would be great to test how good or terrible you really are.

 

No, just no. If you wanna 1v1, go duel on your flagship or something, but having that as a queue option would be a complete joke.

[Lundorff]

No, just no. If you wanna 1v1, go duel on your flagship or something, but having that as a queue option would be a complete joke.

 

Well to each their own. I still think it would be great fun.

[Raansu]

Well to each their own. I still think it would be great fun.

 

Then go duel?

[SlightlySychotic]

Make solo ranked 8v8, the randomness of matchmaking is mitigated by the objective based pvp, and people generally seem to prefer at least certain objective WZ.

 

Make team ranked arenas. Easier to put together a team of 4.

 

Sounds about right. I've suggested mixed 4s objective matches before but was met with resistance from team players. That would just leave arenas for 4s ranked.

 

I would like to see full 8s brought back but that seems unlikely without cross-server. I have heard it rumored that mega servers are coming in the Fall, however. The drastic price drop for transfers gives credence to it.

[Jadescythe]

Even with cross server 8v8 complete teams isn't likely to happen. Too many people get butthurt after losing and stop queuing in this game. For all the people who claim to like objectives better than deathmatch, none of them queued for it when it was around. I see no reason to expect that to change.

[Raansu]

Even with cross server 8v8 complete teams isn't likely to happen. Too many people get butthurt after losing and stop queuing in this game. For all the people who claim to like objectives better than deathmatch, none of them queued for it when it was around. I see no reason to expect that to change.

 

JC had several teams that queued weekly prior to server transfers going live. Server transfers imo killed alot of communities. Granted I wont deny that I followed to POT5 but that was because we had over 30 teams on POT5 after the transfers....and that stayed strong up until BW came out and said they were removing 8v8 ranked.....Literally over night I saw several guilds disappear and now a days pvp guilds are practically non existent.

 

Before arenas there were always several pvp guilds, and people were always interested in doing 8v8 ranked on JC. Ya two teams were dominate but we still had a consistent pug teams and kickballs and a lot of interest in doing 8v8 ranked.

 

You don't ever see anyone pugging 4v4 or doing kickball matches because reality is the majority of the pvpers didn't like arenas. I don't mind them, they are kind of mindless fun, but adding them to this game was a mistake. Removing 8v8 ranked was a mistake, not adding cross server was a mistake, and personally I still believe implementing server transfers was a huge mistake. They should gave put their resources into either doing what ESO launched with which was having one mega server or they should have found a way to do cross server. Not addressing that among other garbage choices imo are what killed pvp in this game.

 

BW just made too many piss poor choices all in the name of trying to avoid putting resources into cross server or avoid the PR aftermath of of merging servers....both of which I think would have been better alternatives to deal with than what we have now. Lets also not forget that 8v8 was stuck in preseason for nearly two years. If it had the kind of stuff that 4v4 has going on now you would have seen way more participation.

[Jadescythe]

JC had several teams that queued weekly prior to server transfers going live. Server transfers imo killed alot of communities. Granted I wont deny that I followed to POT5 but that was because we had over 30 teams on POT5 after the transfers....and that stayed strong up until BW came out and said they were removing 8v8 ranked.....Literally over night I saw several guilds disappear and now a days pvp guilds are practically non existent.

 

Before arenas there were always several pvp guilds, and people were always interested in doing 8v8 ranked on JC. Ya two teams were dominate but we still had a consistent pug teams and kickballs and a lot of interest in doing 8v8 ranked.

 

You don't ever see anyone pugging 4v4 or doing kickball matches because reality is the majority of the pvpers didn't like arenas. I don't mind them, they are kind of mindless fun, but adding them to this game was a mistake. Removing 8v8 ranked was a mistake, not adding cross server was a mistake, and personally I still believe implementing server transfers was a huge mistake. They should gave put their resources into either doing what ESO launched with which was having one mega server or they should have found a way to do cross server. Not addressing that among other garbage choices imo are what killed pvp in this game.

 

BW just made too many piss poor choices all in the name of trying to avoid putting resources into cross server or avoid the PR aftermath of of merging servers....both of which I think would have been better alternatives to deal with than what we have now. Lets also not forget that 8v8 was stuck in preseason for nearly two years. If it had the kind of stuff that 4v4 has going on now you would have seen way more participation.

 

There were at most 5-6 teams on all of Pot5 when Arenas got announced. Let's not be overly optimistic about how great 8v8 was. I know the most we could get were some kickball games with HVND and some fun attempts to not get 3 capped by S-key. 8v8 wasn't popular post Fatman for the most part.