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Quarterly Producer Letter for Q2 2024 ×

Light/Dark side - Penalized for Neutrality

Jisu

By Jisu
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Jisu

Jisu

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if this is the best place to post this - I didn't see a suggestions forum.

 

At any rate, I've noticed that I'm missing out on some great bonuses for staying relatively neutral. I'm a 45 Operative, and probably about halfway through Act 3. When I think of an Imperial Agent, I think of someone who's not necessarily good or evil, but more or less grey, doing what they can, when they can, to advance the Empire. Sure, some evil stuff plays into it - I mean, if I'm undercover and someone knows my identity, it's only natural that I solve the situation in a way that they won't be able to pass along that knowledge (ie. kill them). But on the whole, I tend to go back and forth between light side and dark side. A lot of the dark side choices don't make much sense to me - why am I going to slaughter a bunch of people that don't know who I am or what I'm doing? Why am I going to renege on an agreement when someone has performed admirably to my satisfaction? On the flip side, the good choices aren't really that much better most of the time, and a lot of them don't make much sense either if I'm trying to do my job right (I'm not going to let some dork go if it's going to blow my cover, or I'm not going to let someone live when I can pretty much cover up my tracks and what I did entirely).

 

A lot of the choices I've been given throughout the game I've chosen because I thought they would better represent what someone would do in my position. It's not about being mean, or being a goody two-shoes - it's about doing what's best for the Empire. Unfortunately, going this route, and only being only Dark 1, I've noticed I'm missing out on some great relics for my level because I'm not inherently good or evil. In fact, there are very few of these items that I can actually use. I don't have anything in my relic slots, because I simply don't meet the requirements. I'm sure I could probably use some lower level ones, but that's beside the point.

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that, with a class that I think was made specifically to be "grey" and to walk that thin line, I feel I'm being punished for following my story and doing what I think best serves the cause. It would be nice if some of these restrictions on items were removed, or some were made specifically for neutral characters. As it is, you've gotta lean heavily to one side or the other to get any benefit, and I don't feel my character/class fits that particular way of thought.

Edited by Jisu
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PowerElectronic

PowerElectronic

Posted
Posted (edited)
Not sure if this is the best place to post this - I didn't see a suggestions forum.

 

At any rate, I've noticed that I'm missing out on some great bonuses for staying relatively neutral. I'm a 45 Operative, and probably about halfway through Act 3. When I think of an Imperial Agent, I think of someone who's not necessarily good or evil, but more or less grey, doing what they can, when they can, to advance the Empire. Sure, some evil stuff plays into it - .

 

there is not need for you to justify to anyone how you want to play your character.

 

alignment neutral game should have existed since beta. WHAT THE *********** ****.

 

I am missing out on 40 endurance at least, at my current level because I cant use relics.

Edited by PowerElectronic
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snooggums

snooggums

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When alignment is based on actions, not intent, there is no room for depth of character. By aiming for neutrality, you are following the same blind alignment pattern as someone who goes all dark or all light if you are actually looking at your alignment bar at any point and leaning one way or another.

 

I just don't see how anyone can consistently answer questions and somehow end up in that thin window between light and dark with the available choices unless the choices are completely inconsistent. I agree with what you are saying conceptually, I have no idea how it can apply to this game's choices as you describe them unless there are fewer light/dark only choices than I remember.

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Caelrie

Caelrie

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Posted
When alignment is based on actions, not intent, there is no room for depth of character. By aiming for neutrality, you are following the same blind alignment pattern as someone who goes all dark or all light if you are actually looking at your alignment bar at any point and leaning one way or another.

 

I just don't see how anyone can consistently answer questions and somehow end up in that thin window between light and dark with the available choices unless the choices are completely inconsistent. I agree with what you are saying conceptually, I have no idea how it can apply to this game's choices as you describe them unless there are fewer light/dark only choices than I remember.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

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Daeada

Daeada

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There will be neutral gear, the devs know it is wanted.

 

As far as maxing out one side or the other, no, you are not penalized for doing it. You can get comparable items to put in your relic slots without ls/ds points, you just have to do some datacron hunting and use the datacron assembly matrix to get them.

 

Also, you can play the character the way you want, then farm flashpoints at 50 for ls/ds points if you want the story of your choice, as well as the gear benefits of maxing a side.

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ElTorqiro

ElTorqiro

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What is even more galling is that while the mundane masses are blindly clicking Option 1 for every single conversation choice and racking up Light side points to access items, they aren't even penalised in terms of in-game rewards. Whenever there is a choice to be made for things like "No I don't need the reward! (+100 Light Points)", the very next thing the NPC does is say "Oh but you must take it, I insist". So they get the points, plus the rewards. ***?

 

This is Bioware's idea of "Innovative Storytelling"? Sure, if you are comparing to children's books it's about on par. This kind of nonsense no-consequence #1 clicking is ridiculous. They would have been better just forcing people to choose Light/Dark at the start of the game and not confusing the issue by pretending that characters actually have a choice of any kind.

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Jisu

Jisu

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When alignment is based on actions, not intent, there is no room for depth of character. By aiming for neutrality, you are following the same blind alignment pattern as someone who goes all dark or all light if you are actually looking at your alignment bar at any point and leaning one way or another.

 

Negative. 99.9% of the choices I've made, I made because I thought the outcome would be in mine, and the Empire's, favor.

 

I just don't see how anyone can consistently answer questions and somehow end up in that thin window between light and dark with the available choices unless the choices are completely inconsistent. I agree with what you are saying conceptually, I have no idea how it can apply to this game's choices as you describe them unless there are fewer light/dark only choices than I remember.

 

I suggest you play an Agent.

 

I also said I was Dark 1.

Edited by Jisu
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PowerElectronic

PowerElectronic

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There will be neutral gear, the devs know it is wanted.

 

As far as maxing out one side or the other, no, you are not penalized for doing it. You can get comparable items to put in your relic slots without ls/ds points, you just have to do some datacron hunting and use the datacron assembly matrix to get them.

 

Also, you can play the character the way you want, then farm flashpoints at 50 for ls/ds points if you want the story of your choice, as well as the gear benefits of maxing a side.

 

there is no in game guide on getting datacrons and assembling this matrix crap.

 

and I dont want to go read up a guide / waste my time. There should be neutral relics, nothing else is acceptable.

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Toxophile

Toxophile

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Posted

Bw really does need to go through an revamp the choice tree. I mean, it's either I am a holy, honorable person who loves children and puppies or I am a murdering backstabbing scum who wants to kill children and old ladies.

 

When faced with a choice or getting hard to find medicine, I can choose to get it for the soldiers fighting the battles, or the children who have been orphaned. So, if I want children to die while soldiers yuk it up, I have to go Dark Side. If I am a Saint with truth and justice (which is *alwasy* the right way!) on my side, I let the soldiers die and save the children.

 

Okay, so the evil guy saves everyone in the town thanks to now-healthy solders is who can kill the enemy. The holy guy condemns everyone in the town, including the now-healthy children, to slavery or execution because there aren't enough soldiers to fend off or defeat the enemy.

 

Why do I get Dark points for saving the whole town? This is why BW needs to redo their choice tree's. They are too cartoonish for a Sci-Fi genre.

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Jisu

Jisu

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I think a really simple solution for this is to just reduce the requirements of all light side/dark side items to just light/dark. I somewhat agree that it would be fairly difficult to keep yourself naturally and entirely neutral. I would wager that nearly everyone in the game is at least light side 1 or dark side 1, or is at that point by the end of the game. It doesn't make much sense that someone can use a certain item over someone else because they are "that much more evil" or "that much more good". You're either good, or bad, and I think the first level reflects that pretty well. They only thing higher levels of "karma" should affect is your appearance. Edited by Jisu
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LordJestR

LordJestR

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What is even more galling is that while the mundane masses are blindly clicking Option 1 for every single conversation choice and racking up Light side points to access items, they aren't even penalised in terms of in-game rewards. Whenever there is a choice to be made for things like "No I don't need the reward! (+100 Light Points)", the very next thing the NPC does is say "Oh but you must take it, I insist". So they get the points, plus the rewards. ***?

 

This is Bioware's idea of "Innovative Storytelling"? Sure, if you are comparing to children's books it's about on par. This kind of nonsense no-consequence #1 clicking is ridiculous. They would have been better just forcing people to choose Light/Dark at the start of the game and not confusing the issue by pretending that characters actually have a choice of any kind.

 

 

 

Your everyday interactions must be extremely fascinating.

 

Mum: Be a dear and go buy some milk"

 

You: **** you! Why must you force me to be either a good kid for accepting your request or a bad kid for refusing you. I'm just gonna do neither and stand here screaming at you like a deranged kid. And at the end of this rant, you better have some cookies ready.

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LordJestR

LordJestR

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Posted
hmmm, i don't really have ***** insecurity. so i joined on december 2011

 

Well in this dimension, Nov comes before Dec. So basically you just said you played in Nov with an acc that has not been created yet. I don't know about you but that is an incredible scientific breakthrough.

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PowerElectronic

PowerElectronic

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Posted
Well in this dimension, Nov comes before Dec. So basically you just said you played in Nov with an acc that has not been created yet. I don't know about you but that is an incredible scientific breakthrough.

 

Oh i guess in your primitive dimension people haven't invented to concept of multiple accounts.

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Taleq

Taleq

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Posted
When alignment is based on actions, not intent, there is no room for depth of character. By aiming for neutrality, you are following the same blind alignment pattern as someone who goes all dark or all light if you are actually looking at your alignment bar at any point and leaning one way or another.

 

I just don't see how anyone can consistently answer questions and somehow end up in that thin window between light and dark with the available choices unless the choices are completely inconsistent. I agree with what you are saying conceptually, I have no idea how it can apply to this game's choices as you describe them unless there are fewer light/dark only choices than I remember.

 

Its very easy to end up grey side. I am playing my Smuggler as a credit hound, but she has principles. She won't hurt children and won't be overly evil to make money, but she will lie and cheat to make a few extra credits. That's how I wanted to play Smuggler and its a grey sided choice.

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Toppins

Toppins

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Posted

There is neutral gear.

 

There are items that have the restriction "Must not be Lightside 1 or higher"

There are items that have the restriction "Must not be Darkside 1 or higher"

 

The only people who can use both?

 

Neutrals.

 

Thanks for coming!

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Daeada

Daeada

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Posted (edited)

Except there are, and I pointed them out, you are just too lazy to get them. Not really the developers problem. If you have the time to waste whining on the forums about a perceived lack of neutral relics, then you have the 10 seconds it takes to look up getting the neutral relics that already exist.

 

Here, I'll even help you out:

 

Datacron locations:

http://www.swtor-spy.com/datacrons/

 

How to assemble relics with the assembly matrix: http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Datacron#Level_50_cubes

 

 

There, you have no excuses now. Stop whining about a non-issue.

Edited by Zilrota
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jackalious

jackalious

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Posted
Well remember KOTOR pc game. The best jedi was the netural one cause you could use both light and dark abilities. However when they made the second game they made them weaker. You just have to see what they want is for you to pick a side light or dark. Some choices you make are good and some bad. What they should do is make spy, bounty hunter, a netural charater. That being said you should try to blend in. You should make bonuses that make it so you could go into a rebel base and them not know who you are. If you go into a rebel base and say kill murder and death they would look at you as a spy pretty quick the same if you are a republic smuggler. You should just want to go in and get out not always think of killing but not always trying to save a life. Han Solo could care less as long as he got paid for his services or could boost his ego. In empire strikes back he was going to leave the rebels cause he only cared about getting paid. Then for him it was carbinate. So I'm all for a penalty for smugglers and agents going to one side.
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