Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Caramel_Ham]

Sorry, I misunderstood you then

 

My apologies.

 

I thought you were saying that Rift has the same problem as SWTOR. I pvp'd alot in Rift and it was always pretty nice and crisp in play and feel.

 

Rift was ugly as sin but the core mechanics were as tight as you'd expect in a modern mmo.

 

I played beta Rift and that game was every bit as responsive as WoW.

 

Hope Bioware really fixes this issue as this is a pretty fun game.

[dekey]

assumptions. you have a lot of them

 

i was healer for end game raiding in WOW. still am. however twitch skills are not needed there so don't generalize how a game is played under one play style.

 

Also i've tried to replicate the problem on WOW and the only time theree is a problem is when there's LAG.

 

however the problems i'm seeing here are not game breaking for me as instead of moving after the cast bar is finished i'll wait the half second for the spell to activate.

 

Ok Chris,

 

You were an endgame raider in wow. So let's look at this scenario:

 

You're main tank healing, you're pre-casting a big heal as he's about to get smashed with a flurry or something else lethal.

 

The cast ends and nothing happens, it failed. Tank dies. Raid wipes. Everyone feels that little bit more dead inside.

 

You enjoy this?

 

I appreciate its not a problem for you, but for some of us, it really is.

 

Sure we can adapt and overcome, eventually. But should we have to? Should the game not be catering to us rather than we adjusting to the game?

 

Perhaps my expectations are too great and perhaps "we are the 1%" but the fact remains that there is an aspect of this game (feature or bug) that we dislike enough to post about on the forums.

 

That stands for something, right?

[Godsfear]

perhaps they should look to the MMO that has done this before to see how they streamlined the process..

 

oh wait..

 

there is none.

 

You must be a angst ridden teenager. Anyone who can argue against some this obvious is blind to reason.

 

You would cut off your own nose to spite your face.

[Korizan]

SO with all this discussion, the bottom line is if BIO increases the cycle timers then problem will be solved.

 

Not what people want to hear but it comes down to people trying to do another action before the first one is complete.

 

The ones that don't notice any issue are those that aren't spamming keys or they have accounted for the delay and have managed to get the timing right.

 

In other words those that have rhythm in there play style see very smooth action and those that are rushing to key mash are seeing delays.

 

Different play styles and different results.

 

If Bio wants you to play in a rhythm then nothing will change or no problem.

[Taboo]

Ok Chris,

 

You were an endgame raider in wow. So let's look at this scenario:

 

You're main tank healing, you're pre-casting a big heal as he's about to get smashed with a flurry or something else lethal.

 

The cast ends and nothing happens, it failed. Tank dies. Raid wipes. Everyone feels that little bit more dead inside.

 

You enjoy this?

 

I appreciate its not a problem for you, but for some of us, it really is.

 

Sure we can adapt and overcome, eventually. But should we have to? Should the game not be catering to us rather than we adjusting to the game?

 

Perhaps my expectations are too great and perhaps "we are the 1%" but the fact remains that there is an aspect of this game (feature or bug) that we dislike enough to post about on the forums.

 

That stands for something, right?

 

Seems we had the same reply but yours is much better worded than mine

[Tinkersw]

I think you're confused. Many of us experiencing this issue are on good computers, getting over 60FPS. This is NOT graphical delay, it is the game engine/server not responding correctly to player inputs, because it is prioritizing the completion of animations over the completion of abilities, and in many cases creating a "hidden" global cooldown where abilities used off global while another ability's animation is still playing will cause major issues.

 

yes^^^

 

Yesterday when I logged to the game I was hoping for a patch a fix anything.

But nothing.

Today same thing .... How long can they leave this alone? I mean serioulsy,

this is absolutely game breaking.

[Zironic]

SO with all this discussion, the bottom line is if BIO increases the cycle timers then problem will be solved.

 

Not what people want to hear but it comes down to people trying to do another action before the first one is complete.

 

The ones that don't notice any issue are those that aren't spamming keys or they have accounted for the delay and have managed to get the timing right.

 

In other words those that have rhythm in there play style see very smooth action and those that are rushing to key mash are seeing delays.

 

Different play styles and different results.

 

If Bio wants you to play in a rhythm then nothing will change or no problem.

 

No, those who notice issues are those who expect things to happen when they click the button. Those who don't notice the issue are people that are just happy that their character appears to be doing something, and not terribly worried about -when- the character does it.

[dekey]

 

Not what people want to hear but it comes down to people trying to do another action before the first one is complete.

 

No Korizan that's not what we are saying.

 

What it actually comes down to is people trying to trigger another action before the ANIMATION for the previous ability completes. Even when the related cooldowns and such have finished.

 

There is a massive difference there.

 

And yes Taboo, get out of my head!

[chrisftw]

Ok Chris,

 

You were an endgame raider in wow. So let's look at this scenario:

 

You're main tank healing, you're pre-casting a big heal as he's about to get smashed with a flurry or something else lethal.

 

The cast ends and nothing happens, it failed. Tank dies. Raid wipes. Everyone feels that little bit more dead inside.

 

You enjoy this?

 

I appreciate its not a problem for you, but for some of us, it really is.

 

Sure we can adapt and overcome, eventually. But should we have to? Should the game not be catering to us rather than we adjusting to the game?

 

Perhaps my expectations are too great and perhaps "we are the 1%" but the fact remains that there is an aspect of this game (feature or bug) that we dislike enough to post about on the forums.

 

That stands for something, right?

 

touche..

 

perhaps its not game breaking for me yet since i'm still leveling. but even in flash points i've compensated by just firing off the heal a bit more early than needed. to give the game that extra half second to fire off my heal.

[Ryzerion]

SO with all this discussion, the bottom line is if BIO increases the cycle timers then problem will be solved.

 

Not what people want to hear but it comes down to people trying to do another action before the first one is complete.

 

The ones that don't notice any issue are those that aren't spamming keys or they have accounted for the delay and have managed to get the timing right.

 

In other words those that have rhythm in there play style see very smooth action and those that are rushing to key mash are seeing delays.

 

Different play styles and different results.

 

If Bio wants you to play in a rhythm then nothing will change or no problem.

 

They should of just made the game strictly auto attack then. Right?

[Wahrend]

SO with all this discussion, the bottom line is if BIO increases the cycle timers then problem will be solved.

 

Not what people want to hear but it comes down to people trying to do another action before the first one is complete.

 

The ones that don't notice any issue are those that aren't spamming keys or they have accounted for the delay and have managed to get the timing right.

 

In other words those that have rhythm in there play style see very smooth action and those that are rushing to key mash are seeing delays.

 

Different play styles and different results.

 

If Bio wants you to play in a rhythm then nothing will change or no problem.

 

People wants the skills to execute the moment they hit the button not a sec later. Thats what people wants and how it should be.

 

I don't want to be able to fire 2 skills at once. I want my controls to be responsive just like the OP has pointed out from the beginning.

[Zironic]

touche..

 

perhaps its not game breaking for me yet since i'm still leveling. but even in flash points i've compensated by just firing off the heal a bit more early than needed. to give the game that extra half second to fire off my heal.

 

Indeed it's not a terribly large problem while you're leveling, just a slight annoyance. However it's not something you'll want to deal with in the endgame.

[tehmoose]

SO with all this discussion, the bottom line is if BIO increases the cycle timers then problem will be solved.

 

Not what people want to hear but it comes down to people trying to do another action before the first one is complete.

 

The ones that don't notice any issue are those that aren't spamming keys or they have accounted for the delay and have managed to get the timing right.

 

In other words those that have rhythm in there play style see very smooth action and those that are rushing to key mash are seeing delays.

 

Different play styles and different results.

 

If Bio wants you to play in a rhythm then nothing will change or no problem.

 

Its hard to play with rhythm on a priority system. Its also hard to play with rhythm when you can't hear the music, or see your feet.

[Tinkersw]

SO with all this discussion, the bottom line is if BIO increases the cycle timers then problem will be solved.

 

Not what people want to hear but it comes down to people trying to do another action before the first one is complete.

 

The ones that don't notice any issue are those that aren't spamming keys or they have accounted for the delay and have managed to get the timing right.

 

In other words those that have rhythm in there play style see very smooth action and those that are rushing to key mash are seeing delays.

 

Different play styles and different results.

 

If Bio wants you to play in a rhythm then nothing will change or no problem.

 

Majority of these type post make me irratited but this one made me laugh!

[Wahrend]

touche..

 

perhaps its not game breaking for me yet since i'm still leveling. but even in flash points i've compensated by just firing off the heal a bit more early than needed. to give the game that extra half second to fire off my heal.

 

And in my opinion thats not ideal. You hit the button and the character respons instant. Not a sec later not 0,5 or 0,3 sec later. No. Instant.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Wahrend

[Vigilate]

Then leave the rest of us to our bad game and G-T-F-O?

 

I'm not alone when I say this, but I already have canceled my sub due to terrible combat. I would have been more than willing to continue to paying for ToR for a few months while they installed the other basic things like a moddable UI and combat log, but this ability lag is just killing it for me.

 

A bunch of people from my WoW guild bought ToR to play on the side after we finished Heroic Dragon Soul in roughly a month from now but I can just not justify paying for more than the 30 days included with the game with the ability lag. I'm a level 37 Jedi Shadow but even as a melee it's definitely noticeable. If I try and Low Slash right after using Double Strike or Project so that I can use a Find Weakness proc, half the time a a GCD with be triggered but no low slash will go out and I'll be standing their looking like a retard. This is extends for using a lot of abilities after a Double Strike or Project.

 

I've played rogue for 7 years in WoW (and still do) and have grown use to the fluid combat. If BioWare doesn't see the need to address it ASAP I don't see the need to give them $15 a month since it's just going to be a bad omen for any lack of Quality Assurance in the future. It's a shame though because a 2nd big name MMO that had close to the same size as WoW would mean that developers would not become complacent with going months without content updates.

 

All that aside, the BioDrones pretending that nothing is wrong with TOR are doing an injustice to the game. Saying that this is nothing but 70+ pages of trolling makes you out to be blind fanboys that would still play the game if all it was was spamming a button while attacking a target dummy just because it was designed by BioWare.

 

It isn't the TOR-haters that are trolling in this this thread. It's the same 2 or 3 people who are trying to convince us nothing is wrong but when they're confronted, they change their story and say that this is how the game is supposed to work.

[Ryzerion]

Its hard to play with rhythm on a priority system. Its also hard to play with rhythm when you can't hear the music, or see your feet.

 

Signature status.

[StrikePrice]

I hope it's not too ingrained in the engine to ever be fixed.

[carnac_fett]

I would be fine with Bioware doing either of these things:

 

1. Reducing the animation length to match the cast length

 

2. Increase the cast length to match the animation length

 

Either way, once that cast bar fills up and disappears, I should be able to use another skill immediately.

[Hiramas]

I had this problem quit often, too.

And not only when mounting, there it is just guaranteed to happen.

It is especially frustrating in mid-combat if you don't know if you will interrupt another cast.

Sometimes, when the GCD AND the cast bar are down, you can't do the next attack, because my char is still stuck in an animation. I have to hit my keys twice then, sometimes even a third time if a little normal lag is involved.

This results in death quite frequently.

By now I have key combinations that need SHIFT as well as ALT and switching from one to another, then recognizing the last ability didn't get trough, switching back, but I'm already dead because I could not hit my interrupt properly.

 

Another situation is, when you try to finish an enemy and he is already dead, but still standing, because his death animation last 0.2 or 0.5 seconds. It is even possible to waste a CD on a dead enemy in case you use a non directional ability.

 

I imagine the solution would be to realign the abilities and the animations slightly, but I have a feeling that this is a problem rooted a lot deeper. As if the game needs extra time to recognize your or your companions last move (else, it could initiate the enemies death earlier, right?)

For me, the internal mechanics of the combat system seem to have communication problems.

 

I love this game, I don't want to play WoW (ever again) and it is not a game braking thing for a lot of people. But it is frustrating for some, who want to take on a challenge with a bigger mob maybe and try to sync a rotation perfectly.

[tehmoose]

Sorry, I misunderstood you then

 

My apologies.

 

I thought you were saying that Rift has the same problem as SWTOR. I pvp'd alot in Rift and it was always pretty nice and crisp in play and feel.

 

Rift was ugly as sin but the core mechanics were as tight as you'd expect in a modern mmo.

 

No worries. I came here from there, and am very likely to go back there when my 30/60 day love affair with TOR comes to an end.

[Korizan]

No, those who notice issues are those who expect things to happen when they click the button. Those who don't notice the issue are people that are just happy that their character appears to be doing something, and not terribly worried about -when- the character does it.

 

Not true.

I have just found that if a mash keys my DPS goes through the floor as I end up cancelling half my actions.

IF I get in the right rhythm I have zero issues and things go very smoothly, and my DPS goes way up.

 

Too many games are dependent on how fast you can hit a key, this is not one of them.

This one requires you to get with the flow.

 

I am not arguing that the timers do need a slight increase so it is clearer.

But it doesn't change the fact the spamming keys gives you no advantage in this game in fact it actually works against you.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Korizan

[Caramel_Ham]

Indeed it's not a terribly large problem while you're leveling, just a slight annoyance. However it's not something you'll want to deal with in the endgame.

 

Agreed, sometimes my toon is doing absolutely nothing for a bit, because the game didnt register me spamming my skill even after the cast bar for my previous skill had ended.

 

I can sort of put up with it right now, but i will not for the long haul. Considering Guild Wars 2 is just around the corner.

[Nightrode]

IF we want them to respond we need to make one single post explaining everything in detail.

 

We have a TON of other issues and making them sift through a bunch of anecdotal evidence then trying to reproduce it themselves THEN trying to figure out what would be the possible problems will make things go by slower o.o

 

How about we start with a list of abilities that are instant and have animation time longer than the gcd which cause the problems?

 

So far I have not gotten anything with that on my scoundrel. The animations always ends before the gcd is done ticking.

 

I already proposed a solution of making things have a "channel time" equal to the whole animation length even to the currently insta cast abilities so that it mimics Champions Onlines combat gameplay.

 

This. This is a very important post and should be noted.

 

It happens with a wide range of abilities but I find as a bounty hunter that Unload is a very bad offender. I run into situations where I often hit the ability and the cast timer goes off but the ability itself does not activate.

 

There are so many problems involving the combat abilities themselves and the animations that it makes this complicated.

[Hiramas]

Not true.

I have just found that if a mash keys my DPS goes through the floor as I end up cancelling half my actions.

IF I get in the right rhythm I have zero issues and things go very smoothly, and my DPS goes way up.

 

Too many games are dependent on how fast you can hit a key, this is not one of them.

This one requires you to get with the flow.

 

I am not arguing that the timers do need a slight increase so it is clearer.

But it doesn't change the fact the spamming keys gives you no advantage in this game in fact it actually works against you.

 

I would LOVE! to have a game which requires the "flow" and not the speed alone.

But right now, to get into the flow you have to disconnect the GCD, the normal CDs, the casting time and the animation. And that is certainly not "the flow" (which, again, I would love to have)