Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[astronaute]

I also noticed the lack of responsiveness in this game and really hope they will patch it as soon as possible, it is a game breaker for me

[Taboo]

This is the ability queuing system you are describing, its not a bug, its working as intended.

 

This is designed so you don't have to spam your keyboard every millisecond so you hit your ability the second it goes off gcd. You hit your ability within the threshold that you can set up in your settings and the ability is used the next time your off GCD.

 

Understand that SWTOR isn't an exact copy of WoW, its its own thing, and maybe there won't be a need for these pointless threads.

 

It was only a matter of time before someone posted "Don't worry guys, this is a feature!

 

People are talking about when the GCD finishes, hitting their ability, and then the ability cancelling and not happening at all.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Taboo

[Xcore]

Some of it has to somehow be lag, latency, or FPS/Hardware related.. because I have this problem.

 

... but not all of the time, or in all of the areas, simply from a PVE standpoint. That's not to say your points are incorrect.. but I think it's a more complicated issue. It almost feels like the UI does not respond as quickly to your key presses when you're getting heavy FPS lag... which is a Bad Thing . I certainly have not done extensive testing but that'd just a gut feeling on my part in my playtime. It is an overarching problem that I do hope they iron out with some work. It took WoW a long time to really iron out and get the tech working to where you could adjust it manually for your delay, too, so... Give them some time.

 

Ok well I'm fine with your post and points but lets not worry about how the game/ui handles client side lag input... I'm willing to just not even think about that aspect.

 

Lets concern ourselves with the easy to notice, standing in the middle of nowhere, 40-60+ FPS and 20-50ms... Ability Lag.

[Leilei]

Ok so for me as a sniper; the most noticeable example would be rolling into cover and commencing my ambush cast. It reaches mid way and cancels itself and needs to be recast.

 

If i was too early and still entering cover, the cast would not begin so I must be in cover for it to even start.

 

What it appears to be is once ive reached cover, my Sniper does a little adjusment so that she's knelt with gun level. It looks to me that this is interrupting my cast.

 

You should have no problems recreating this.

 

Worth noting that this is only rolling into natural cover. Using Kneel or "mobile cover" does not cause this problem despite being the same sequence of abilities.

 

It only happens with ambush right? Not with snipe?

 

I tried the rolling thing and using charged burst and it NEVER stopped midway through cast.

 

Thats what Im trying to find out atm. Which are bugs and which are just plain part of the animation system that swtor uses x.x Id say that rolling into natural cover and using the ambush and getting stopped mid cast randomly IS a bug. I tried rolling into cover and spamming charged shot while rolling and not once did my cast time get interrupted.

 

Wonder if people during the beta actually pointed these things out specifically

[Azure_Reaper]

Agree 100% with the op i love this game but i am sorry if this does not get fixed in a couple months i cant see me still playing this.

[Morzak]

I think you misunderstand. Having tested the queue system myself (personally I loathe and detest queue systems) the queue STILL only abides by animation, not the GCD. The ability will activate after the animation has finished, and not the cast bar/GCD.

 

 

Yes this is how it works most of the time, the animation has to play out before the next begins. This is a problem for Casted spells that have a longer Animation then Casttime and instants that have longer Animations then the GCD (even though i didn't encounter this issue on my BH). i think a fix for those animations is in order. Don't expect that the combat system will be totally changed to ignore animations, this would probably cause a huge rewrite of the system. So before the next expansion don't expect any major changes to the system.

[Mandemalex]

It only happens with ambush right? Not with snipe?

 

I tried the rolling thing and using charged burst and it NEVER stopped midway through cast.

 

Thats what Im trying to find out atm. Which are bugs and which are just plain part of the animation system that swtor uses x.x Id say that rolling into natural cover and using the ambush and getting stopped mid cast randomly IS a bug. I tried rolling into cover and spamming charged shot while rolling and not once did my cast time get interrupted.

 

Wonder if people during the beta actually pointed these things out specifically

 

Damn you xD Are you SURE you're not using the queue system? (preferences - controls - scroll bottom - ability action queue window) cause it sounds like you're experiencing exactly what everybody here WANTS to experience hehe

[Xcore]

It only happens with ambush right? Not with snipe?

 

I tried the rolling thing and using charged burst and it NEVER stopped midway through cast.

 

Thats what Im trying to find out atm. Which are bugs and which are just plain part of the animation system that swtor uses x.x Id say that rolling into natural cover and using the ambush and getting stopped mid cast randomly IS a bug. I tried rolling into cover and spamming charged shot while rolling and not once did my cast time get interrupted.

 

Wonder if people during the beta actually pointed these things out specifically

 

Aimed shot it cancels sometimes halfway through, Charged Burst appears to just delay by about 0.5 or 1 second after the roll...

[tehmoose]

I'll have a quick video up of this issue shortly.

 

I illustrated it with the mount skill.

 

Cast, cast bar completes, move forward, skill is cancelled.

 

Cast, cast bar completes, animation begins, move forward, animation cancels.

 

Its reproducible at will.

[CandiMynx]

I notice it way more on my Gunslinger than I do on some of the other classes, for the obvious reasons. I wasn't disagreeing, Xcore, simply adding to your points that I think there's a few problems working together to really mess with some of the combat. I had some severe problems with my GS in the first area of Alderaan for no apparent reason. A lot of lag and delay of abilities which made things feel pretty awkward. I don't notice it nearly as much on melee heavy, instant ability characters versus the cast-bar types though... so it could be combination of animations, char class abilities and other things you've pointed out.

[Nanotech]

You say his logic is terrible, yet he says nothing illogical and in fact backs up his point with examples. You do nothing but deny what is an obvious flaw in the gameplay AND resort to such petty comments as 'L2Read' whilst I try to hold a genuine discussion.

 

You're either a troll, very young - or very dense.

 

Please explain to me how good players are at a disadvantage against bad players when all things are equal. If you can explain that to me, then i'll concede that his logic is absolutely perfect. Also: examples =/= fact and crying about my use of internet vernacular is more petty than using it. As for your little epigram at the end: wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Nanotech

[Corwingeorge]

yo man put my mounting video in ur post

[Thradar]

I've not noticed this "issue."

[Nanotech]

You're one hell of a Troll... well done sir. Either that or the worst Bio-Drone I have seen to date.... incredible.

 

How am I trolling again? I'm pretty sure trolling is making baseless claims in an attempt to drum up a reaction. Looks like you're a troll too, then.

[Xcore]

I notice it way more on my Gunslinger than I do on some of the other classes, for the obvious reasons. I wasn't disagreeing, Xcore, simply adding to your points that I think there's a few problems working together to really mess with some of the combat. I had some severe problems with my GS in the first area of Alderaan for no apparent reason. A lot of lag and delay of abilities which made things feel pretty awkward. I don't notice it nearly as much on melee heavy, instant ability characters versus the cast-bar types though... so it could be combination of animations, char class abilities and other things you've pointed out.

 

I know, sorry... don't get me wrong I agree there are several aspects of the combat mechanics that contribute to an overall feeling of unresponsiveness but I was just saying that its easiest to see and understand in the lag-free environment etc.

 

What you described with client side lag factoring into UI response etc, thats likely more advanced and detailed issues. We really aren't there yet, imo. First lets get the combat fluidity/avatar responsiveness right in the lag-free environments.

[Mandemalex]

Yes this is how it works most of the time, the animation has to play out before the next begins. This is a problem for Casted spells that have a longer Animation then Casttime and instants that have longer Animations then the GCD (even though i didn't encounter this issue on my BH). i think a fix for those animations is in order. Don't expect that the combat system will be totally changed to ignore animations, this would probably cause a huge rewrite of the system. So before the next expansion don't expect any major changes to the system.

 

To be perfectly honest, I very much like how the game plays - so I wouldn't be in favour of a complete rewrite (it sounds like most people here wouldn't want that)

 

I think what ultimately we would like to achieve here, is either having animations prematurely cancelled if another ability has been used (within GCD limitations etc)

 

OR

 

Adjust the cast times of abilities so that they are more fitting to the animations (not so much an actual change, it feels like less of a lie when a 1.5 second cast actually takes 1.6 seconds) and for instant casts to 100% abide by the GCD, regardless of animation.

 

I absolutely <3 the animations in SWTOR, and I wouldn't want to see them totally sacrificed in place of gameplay, so I wouldn't totally like the idea of option 1 if it makes gameplay look 'glitchy' - but I would certainly want to see a compromise.

 

Obviously this kind of stuff is down to the developers, in essence i'm only spewing out what I know from previous experience of gaming, and have no real knowledge on a technical scale, of how this would be possible.

 

But I'd like to think Bioware perhaps have some tricks up their sleeves.

[dekey]

It only happens with ambush right? Not with snipe?

 

My snipe is talented to be instant cast on entering cover so I cannot try that, sorry.

 

[edit]Also interestingly Ambush is 2.5 sec default cast and generally fails after roughly 1.5 seconds, whereas Snipe is 1.5 sec. Perhaps Snipe is uneffected due to completing before whatever is interrupting Ambush, triggers?

Edited December 26, 2011 by dekey

[Nanotech]

People aren't even doing that. People have posted that they have to wait for a delay after an ability has finished before the other starts, even when the animation and GCD has finished. Why are you even argueing the point that a slow and clunky game would be better than a polished smooth one? Why?

 

I would have to actually agree that the gameplay isn't smooth to answer that question. I have played just about every class in this game and have yet to experience a delay that wasn't what I already described. If there is a game mechanic that falls out of line with the rest of the classes, i'm sure it's a bug and needs to be fixed. Otherwise, everyone has the same GCD and therefore everyone experiences the same exact "issue."

Edited December 26, 2011 by Nanotech

[Leilei]

My snipe is talented to be instant cast on entering cover so I cannot try that, sorry.

 

Well snipe is the operative version of the scoundrels charged burst and my charged burst doesnt get interrupted. Ill try underworld medicine soon but Im getting really bored of testing this out -.- I wouldve done more tests before if I actually got into beta. Srsly what were the beta testers doing x.x

[Caramel_Ham]

/signed

 

I agree with everyone who agrees as all the problems have already been explained by all previous posters.

[dekey]

Well snipe is the operative version of the scoundrels charged burst and my charged burst doesnt get interrupted. Ill try underworld medicine soon but Im getting really bored of testing this out -.- I wouldve done more tests before if I actually got into beta. Srsly what were the beta testers doing x.x

 

Don't worry about it, Leilei. We have a ton of examples.

 

You just go enjoy your game and thanks for contributing!

[Darka]

I've not noticed this "issue."

 

Same here, but I will admit that its never been something I have looked for either,

I do support the game being responsive, and smooth.

[Mandemalex]

Please explain to me how good players are at a disadvantage against bad players when all things are equal. If you can explain that to me, then i'll concede that his logic is absolutely perfect. Also: examples =/= fact and crying about my use of internet vernacular is more petty than using it. As for your little epigram at the end: wrong, wrong, and wrong.

 

Oh of course, it IS a level playing field - but not one that emphasizes skill, quick-thinking OR reaction times.

 

I believe someone made a chess reference earlier, but i'll bring it back up as an example to hopefully make the point clear.

 

Speed chess: Imagine if in the latest super-duper tournament of chess (don't know what it is, don't care ) decided that instead of only 30 seconds to make your next move, you're actually allowed 1 minute.

 

This would make an enormous impact on gameplay, strategy and of course - would allow for a lot more room for mistakes, evaluating those mistakes and correcting them.

 

This is the logic I referred to, nobody is at a disadvantage however these ability delays make the game require less 'skill' less reaction time, and leaves a lot more room for error.

[JediMikey]

absolutely agree. I love this game. But the ability responsiveness need improvement. Many times it feels like abilities "double clutch". Anyway good post. I hope Bioware listens.

[Morzak]

To be perfectly honest, I very much like how the game plays - so I wouldn't be in favour of a complete rewrite (it sounds like most people here wouldn't want that)

 

I think what ultimately we would like to achieve here, is either having animations prematurely cancelled if another ability has been used (within GCD limitations etc)

 

OR

 

Adjust the cast times of abilities so that they are more fitting to the animations (not so much an actual change, it feels like less of a lie when a 1.5 second cast actually takes 1.6 seconds) and for instant casts to 100% abide by the GCD, regardless of animation.

 

I absolutely <3 the animations in SWTOR, and I wouldn't want to see them totally sacrificed in place of gameplay, so I wouldn't totally like the idea of option 1 if it makes gameplay look 'glitchy' - but I would certainly want to see a compromise.

 

Obviously this kind of stuff is down to the developers, in essence i'm only spewing out what I know from previous experience of gaming, and have no real knowledge on a technical scale, of how this would be possible.

 

But I'd like to think Bioware perhaps have some tricks up their sleeves.

 

 

Yeah like i said if you make DMG and effects dependable from Animations you need to make sure that all instant Animations take no longer then 1.5 s and all Cast animations do not take longer then the cast time.

 

Problem with canceling animations is, if the Effects are dependend on Animations it will need a huge change to allow animation cancellations whitout loosing the DMG / Effect. At least thats what I would expect when seeing how it works now. Hopefully it's not like that and we can get a change to that but i wouldn't expect it soon.

 

Oh and another point Skills with positional prereqs should always check the positon at the beginning of the Animation (Button Press) not at the end, same should probably be done for stuff that requires a target to be stunned or dotted.