Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Mandemalex]

I don't get it?

 

Why would people want responsive game play in a video game?

 

Let's just look at some successful video game franchises.

 

 

Uncharted series

Gears of WAR. Flawless gameplay

Halo series. Perfect targeting gameplay

COD series. Flawless mechanically

WOW standard setting

League of legends. Competitive pvp environment.

Diablo

 

As we can see all of these games had loose gameplay mechanics and were super succesful.

 

Players don't want tight gameplay as demonstrated by my list. all of these games built there foundation on sloppy gameplay mechanics.

 

You guys just need to get on BW/EA's level.

 

Forgive me, but are you being sarcastic? It's hard to tell with text and the fact that there are a lot of SWTOR fanboys who would say this game is absolutely flawless.

 

If you were being sarcastic, I lol'd... it's just I re-read the post and wondered if you were being serious or not xD

[baznasty]

Remember on WoW when you got so used to how responsive the casts are you could start running on your mount before the animation had even finished? You'd have a split second of running really fast on your feet and then the mount would appear? That's responsiveness. We enjoy fancy animations and we enjoy the game looking good. But the technical side of the game is what's important to a LARGE portion of players and you're completely destroying their experience.

 

Yep, that's because at the end of the abilities cast time you can start running, because it's almost exact. Even though the animation hasn't finished, the game lets you start gaining the benifit of mount speed. WoW chose fluidity and gameplay over animations and it made the game play like a dream.

 

This game made the decision to marry animations, and it's going to make it end in a bitter divorce.

[YzenDanek]

Really? People will just complain about anything and everything.

 

Everybody wants the game to feel like WoW, since that's what they're used to. I tell them to go play WoW if they want to play WoW.

 

This is a different game, different engine, and it's a much better game overall IMO.

 

Sure the delay may take a bit to get used to, but once you get used to it there is nothing wrong with it at all. People need to stop whining and adapt, rather than wanting everything catered to their whiny needs and demands all the time.

 

I actually got used to the delay overall. It may be a 0.5 second rotation delay, but once the rotation is started the delay isn't that noticeable, since the rotation has started. And people who say this will affect PvP are delusional since everybody is dealing with the same thing.

 

I would have no problem if they tightened the timing down, but the amount of QQ going out over this is a bit ridiculous IMO.

 

It's not just WoW. It's every FPS game in the world.

 

And yes, we could adjust over time, but why would we want to?

 

What you're talking about is akin to a hosting entity arbitrarily changing the size or weight of a game ball for one particular sporting event. Learning to use that new ball does nothing to improve players' competitiveness moving forward in the sport. It may even set them back returning to the regular sport as they have picked up some bad habits on account of the new ball.

 

What WoW did right is use a model that copied as near as possible the feel of an FPS game in an MMORPG, which made it instantly, perfectly familiar to the largest group of gamers on earth. It was the beginning of a certain continuity between competitive PvP games that was embraced by a record number of players.

 

Nobody in this thread is asking for SWTOR to emulate WoW in any other respect. In fact, you could disregard comments about WoW and just as easily ask it to emulate Team Fortress 2 in terms of responsiveness. One fact remains: nobody ever quit a game because it was too responsive, and many will quit over the opposite. We all want this game to succeed. There should be no argument.

Edited December 26, 2011 by YzenDanek

[Mandemalex]

 

This game made the decision to marry animations, and it's going to make it end in a bitter divorce.

 

I really hope this isn't the case, if anything has been seen throughout gaming history in the past ten years - it is that people prefer a game that requires 'skills' as opposed to a game that looks very nice.

 

There must a compromise somewhere in between, but I guess that's down to Bioware to discover.

[dcinnitt]

Yep, that's because at the end of the abilities cast time you can start running, because it's almost exact. Even though the animation hasn't finished, the game lets you start gaining the benifit of mount speed. WoW chose fluidity and gameplay over animations and it made the game play like a dream.

 

This game made the decision to marry animations, and it's going to make it end in a bitter divorce.

 

You have such a way with words! I'm glad I found this thread. It has been making me so angry listening to everyone defend the game making out like I'm a hater. I just want everyone to be given the standard we deserve and they will thank us for all the forum hate if it ever gets fixed "WOW THEY WERE RIGHT NOW THIS GAME PLAYS SO NICE, THANKS" :')

[Leilei]

1st its grenade then blaster which causes the problem, not the other way round.

 

2nd im referring to when you have reached your cover, not whilst still rolling. Yes im using my cover bar, I do know how to play a sniper

 

Ok I was mashing charged shot while i was rolling. it starts charging the moment i get in place and it fired perfectly.

 

Tried the grenade thing and judging by the timing, it triggers the GCD but it doesnt actually show that its triggering it.

 

I have to wait for the cooldown to use it again now x.x

 

Edit : I dont have a mount yet so I cant comment on how it is x.x

Edited December 26, 2011 by Leilei

[SWMudMaelstrom]

+1 to the OP.

 

I don't spam keys. Latency is around 75ms. My machine handles the game flawlessly (2600k, 560gtx). I've tried ability queue settings from the default 0.5s down to 0.0. From my perspective the problem is simply that the game puts a higher priority on animation timings than on my actual inputs.

 

This has two effects:

 

1) I play worse than usual. Obviously this is an issue of "L2P," "this isn't WoW," etc. I've improved somewhat by becoming more aware of the timings, and definitely have a ways to go. So I'm not here to argue that the game is broken or unfair. But...

 

2) I don't feel like I have direct control of my avatar. The comment above is spot on, it feels like "telling my character what to do" rather than actually doing it. It interferes with immersion. It interferes with the sheer "joy of combat/joy of movement" which is so important to keeping players interested over long periods of time.

[MonkJ]

So for example when i cast Aiming shot (gunslinger) my action bar will finish then my guy lowers his blasters then shoots like 0.5 seconds later. So is this problem in game related or is my hardware responsible for this lag?

[cdstephen]

+1 to the OP.

[asbalana]

This is a great game and I am enjoying it and will be playing for a long (I hope) while.

 

I do agree with the OPs comments. The combat system is currently flawed with delays in spells and some spells not casting. I have to work around the problems with my JC and have been killed by elites and bosses in fights that have come down to the wire because of casting glitches. The sad thing is that I like the combat in the sense of the spells and abilities and how they should flow.

 

I am working around the problems, but there will be a time when high level operations and flashpoints become difficult not because of the content or fight but because of the bugged casting. At that point many people who do love swtor will be forced to look elsewhere (in disappointment).

 

I would implore BW to take a look at this and comment and if they can fix it.

[Leilei]

So for example when i cast Aiming shot (gunslinger) my action bar will finish then my guy lowers his blasters then shoots like 0.5 seconds later. So is this problem in game related or is my hardware responsible for this lag?

 

That is game related.

 

Basically what we need for them to do(for abilities with cast time) is to bring the animations back a bit so that most plays while theyre casting and the actual effect goes off when the cast finishes.

 

Now for the instant abilities that have no cast time, we need to change it to have channel time equal to the animation time that way, the people who arent used to the way they handle combat can keep in proper timing. ( Like how CO handles it)

Edited December 26, 2011 by Leilei

[Astron_]

It's not that people are against a fix for it, it's that they feel like we are spies sent here from Blizzard and we are trying to destroy the game from the inside. They see a contructive feedback thread as a conspiracy to keep this game from succeeding when, in fact, it is the exact opposite. We are all dying to get this game to succeed. We are here to watch it flourish, but as long this issue persists, we must work to get it changed.

 

We see the turd in the punch bowl, we try to get it removed. Other people don't see the poo in the punch and think we are just here to keep them from drinking their delicious turd-flavored beverage.

 

Well put. Best reponse I've seen to all the extreme fanboyism going on around here.

[EliteJackson]

Agree completely. Rated and bumped.

[Mandemalex]

Ok I was mashing charged shot while i was rolling. it starts charging the moment i get in place and it fired perfectly.

 

Sounds like you play with the default ability queue setting (0.5 seconds queue time) and if this is the case, you would not notice any sort of lag because the computer says when the ability is ready to be used, and not the player/GCD.

[Godsfear]

.............jjjjjjjuuuusstt a bummmp for this topiccccc..............GCD! There it goes!

[Leilei]

Sounds like you play with the default ability queue setting (0.5 seconds queue time) and if this is the case, you would not notice any sort of lag because the computer says when the ability is ready to be used, and not the player/GCD.

 

No. I was using 0 queue window (queue disabled)

[DaPyro]

i don't get it?

 

Why would people want responsive game play in a video game?

 

Let's just look at some successful video game franchises.

 

 

Uncharted series

gears of war. Flawless gameplay

halo series. Perfect targeting gameplay

cod series. Flawless mechanically

wow standard setting

league of legends. Competitive pvp environment.

Diablo

 

as we can see all of these games had loose gameplay mechanics and were super succesful.

 

Players don't want tight gameplay as demonstrated by my list. All of these games built there foundation on sloppy gameplay mechanics.

 

You guys just need to get on bw/ea's level.

 

lol............

[Nephrahim]

Well put. Best reponse I've seen to all the extreme fanboyism going on around here.

 

I think MOST who read this topic get that it's a valid concern. I see a lot less bashing of this then the haters topics on general (Of which there are a few.)

[Omniana]

OP made a 5 star post.

[Leilei]

I think MOST who read this topic get that it's a valid concern. I see a lot less bashing of this then the haters topics on general (Of which there are a few.)

 

Well..Im not denying the effects being linked to the animation but I have yet to be able to cause a cd to appear or have problems with moves not going off.

 

Ive been trying for a few hours now x.x

 

And for cybertechs, grenades DO in face cause the GCD to work. The med packs also adhere to the GCD rules AND trigger the gcd.

 

Edit :

 

if you were to use an attack and a med pack at the same time, it will make the attack happen BEFORE the med pack. Im not biochem anymore so if anyone with a reusable medpack could test this then we could figure out how those consumables are affected by the priority

Edited December 26, 2011 by Leilei

[Skizzik]

This is my number one gripe about this game. Please fix this bioware. It's obviously not working correctly.

[Corwingeorge]

poppin in to say i hope they don't do a half-*** fix to this, where it's only slightly delayed. pretty sure an overhaul necessary. Edited December 26, 2011 by Corwingeorge

[MasterSyrio]

I am enjoying TOR quite a bit so far and am excited to see the level 50 game, but this is also my top complaint, the "feel" is just not there. I have experimented with 0.0, 0.5, etc. and attempted to adjust my gameplay to more aggressive ability queuing to see if that helps it feel smoother, but it just isn't there. I realize there are a lot of WoW haters here, but even the biggest hater has to admit, Blizzard got the ability/action system "right" and has reaped many rewards because of it. I really hope BioWare recognizes this issue and can tune to the same, I think endgame PvP and PvE alike will depend heavily upon it.

[DaPyro]

waiting for an official reply on this!

[Jigss]

The only other game to match the responsive i have seen in WOW was Guild Wars 2. Where everything was fluid especially visible when doing your rotations.

 

While i have seen worse then SWTOR (Warhammer and LOTR was horrible at this) when it comes to this. I think Bioware should look to improve here as it can certainly make or break the game.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Jigss