Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Nanotech]

Sir, does it bother you that because of your response I can tell with 100% certainty that you have neither.

 

A) Reached any top tier PvP in any MMO

B) Ever raided top level content in any MMO

 

This issue is a real issue, but only to people who are capable of seeing these flaws. You do not see them because your twitch movement is less than stellar. So, this game matches your slow response time perfectly.

 

Actually, I have done both, but keep on making blind assertions about me because right now you're batting .000. Every single one of your responses has attempted to infer something about me that is 100% un-true. However, i'll mention that i consistently destroy people in Warzones which is the only relevant comparison you can make. So, why don't you go back to those other MMOs you are so awesome at, because you clearly suck at this one.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Nanotech

[Valtyre]

I have to agree with the OP. It's not too noticeable when fighting some trash mobs, but when I'm in a tight battle with a higher level mob, fighting a boss or PVP it is notably frustrating. The worst in PVP.

 

I had a hard time trying to explain why I was so frustrated with PVP, but the OP points it out clearly. The delay! I can't rely on the animations to tell me about my ability being casted and I can't rely on the UI or cast bar either. It's like fighting in the dark sometimes.

[Mandemalex]

Sir, does it bother you that because of your response I can tell with 100% certainty that you have neither.

 

A) Reached any top tier PvP in any MMO

B) Ever raided top level content in any MMO

 

This issue is a real issue, but only to people who are capable of seeing these flaws. You do not see them because your twitch movement is less than stellar. So, this game matches your slow response time perfectly.

 

There is no candy-coating this. This is absolutely right. Until you have played to the full potential of most MMOs out there, you probably wouldn't see an issue with a 'slight' delay in some moves.

 

A 'slight' delay is STILL a matter between life and death, and all these people saying 'This is how the game is meant to be' or 'stop asking for a WoW-clone'

 

NO! It is not how the game should be, the cast times are there for a reason. The GCD is there for a reason. Animation should absolutely NOT override either of these mechanics, no matter what.

 

If this is a mechanic that really is meant to be in place, then I can see this game falling harder than Warhammer, which I really hope doesn't become the case.

[Mandemalex]

Actually, I have done both, but keep on making blind assertions about me because right now you're batting .000. Every single one of your responses has attempted to infer something about me that is 100% un-true. However, i'll mention that i consistently destroy people in Warzones which is the only relevant comparison you can make. So, why don't you go back to those other MMOs you are so awesome at, because you clearly suck at this one.

 

Nonetheless you avoid the key issue, what is the point in Cast times or the GCD - if we are supposed to rely on animations to know when we are able to act?

[ThreeKingdoms]

Well stated, OP. Fix this Bioware, it is frustrating !

[tehmoose]

The button press feels disconnected from when my character actually does something.

 

There's really no better explanation for it than the speeder mounting thing.

 

Press mount, cast finishes, and if you move before the *animation* finishes, the cast is cancelled.

 

So: press button --> half second cast --> animation starts --> half a second later, mount is summoned.

 

Most, if not all abilities do this. Look at trooper's Mortar Blast. 3 second channel, half of which is standing there doing nothing. The ani for the ability is about a second and a half long. It feels like I'm standing around idling a lot of the time.

[Nanotech]

Nonetheless you avoid the key issue, what is the point in Cast times or the GCD - if we are supposed to rely on animations to know when we are able to act?

 

L2Read. I didn't avoid any key issues; I have responded to this before. The fact of the matter is that there are still insta-cast abilities and short cast-time abilities that have little to no animation. Therefore a GCD is still required to govern these skills.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Nanotech

[baznasty]

Actually, I have done both, but keep on making blind assertions about me because right now you're batting .000. Every single one of your responses has attempted to infer something about me that is 100% un-true. However, i'll mention that i consistently destroy people in Warzones which is the only relevant comparison you can make. So, why don't you go back to those other MMOs you are so awesome at, because you clearly suck at this one.

 

The reason you "destroy people in warzones" is that you are being catered to by a broken system. Best way I can describe it is this:

 

If there was a game with no GCD at all, the players with the greatest reaction time and twitch would completely dominate. They are forced to think of and begin planning their next move well before they are going to use it.

 

Now, in this game, due to the 1.5 GCD coupled with the additional animation CD for many moves, you have about 2 seconds to decide your next move. So, the playing field becomes "dumbed downed".

 

We are wanting chess, we have checkers. You think you own at checkers. Grats.

 

Btw, I play a BH and I also "destroy in PvP". But guess what, I also destroy in other games PvP and have for many years.

[Mandemalex]

L2Read. I didn't avoid any key issues. I have responded to this before. The fact of the matter is that there are still insta-cast abilities and short cast-time abilities that have little to no animation. Therefore a GCD is still required to govern these skills.

 

By your 'L2Read' comment I shall be cautious in my reply to you, since you are clearly riled up from the previous poster.

 

I'm afraid this makes no sense. One rule for some abilities and another rule for other ones? GCD works on some abilities, but not on others? People should avoid using animated abilities so they're more efficient...?

 

From my point of view, this is a flawed game mechanic. I see what you are saying about instant cast needing a GCD, but in that case - why do the longer cast time abilities a) Take longer than actual cast timer and b) do not apply to the GCD, because of animation?

[tehmoose]

L2Read. I didn't avoid any key issues; I have responded to this before. The fact of the matter is that there are still insta-cast abilities and short cast-time abilities that have little to no animation. Therefore a GCD is still required to govern these skills.

 

In that case, an "instant" cast ability should not take longer to execute than the 1.5sec GCD.

[baznasty]

In that case, an "instant" cast ability should not take longer to execute than the 1.5sec GCD.

 

I have also had instant cast moves interrupted. Try to figure that one out.

[Mandemalex]

I have also had instant cast moves interrupted. Try to figure that one out.

 

LOL - it's sad, but certainly funny

[AlkalineKitten]

The reason you "destroy people in warzones" is that you are being catered to by a broken system. Best way I can describe it is this:

 

If there was a game with no GCD at all, the players with the greatest reaction time and twitch would completely dominate. They are forced to think of and begin planning their next move well before they are going to use it.

 

Now, in this game, due to the 1.5 GCD coupled with the additional animation CD for many moves, you have about 2 seconds to decide your next move. So, the playing field becomes "dumbed downed".

 

We are wanting chess, we have checkers. You think you own at checkers. Grats.

 

Btw, I play a BH and I also "destroy in PvP". But guess what, I also destroy in other games PvP and have for many years.

 

Props.

[Godsfear]

I am sorry, sir, but you appear to be speaking to yourself.

 

The UI is drawn and highly controlled through the video card. In many cases MMO's see errors in UI related to non updated video drivers.

 

all I can say is lol. If you are attributing the ability lag to GPU drivers your nuts. Maybe in 1 person's case somewhere on the moon but this is a systemic problem that is OBVIOUSLY not GPU related.

 

 

If the UI was failing because of outdated drivers than alot more than the UI would be failing.

 

I can also say that the Windows UI is highly controlled by the GPU driver. Is that the problem 99.9% of the time with a windows system error?

 

No, thanks for being a devil's advocate though new guy.

[Neverdyne]

I also have experienced a large amount of unresponsiveness. Especially with defensive cooldowns on my Marauder, Riposte and other "off the GCD" abilities that don't fire at all when I want them to. Add to this animation stuttering, notable when doing repeated Vicious Slashed one after the other, and it makes combat feel very bad.

 

The developers must understand that once the shiny and "story" elements of the game wear off somewhat, the underlying gameplay is what will keep us here. And if this gameplay is flawed as it is right now, I can see SWTOR going down the drain in a few months.

 

Sadly though, I kind of expected this to happen. Bioware has not much experience with this type of problems, KOTOR had a slow and different style of combat that somewhat resembles this one. But an MMO needs fluid and responsive combat, period. It's why WoW did so good, seriously.

 

When WoW launched it didn't have much content, it was buggy, etc., but what it did have was an astonishingly smooth combat. SWTOR NEEDS this.

[DarthLeland]

Um, SWG and EQ2 both had more subscribers in the their first couple months than WoW did. Where are you getting your information?

[Korizan]

Yes default is 0.5 but it is important to understand that it is not the Queuing of Abilities that is the issue, it is the execution of an ability.

 

It has nothing to do with this sadly, for example... I cast "Aimed Shot"... about 0.5 seconds after I hit my button it starts to cast (at 40-50 FPS and 20ms Latency). Also, my "next ability" that I am spamming already before the Aimed Shot Cast Time is completed (as to not miss any time between) never goes off and no animation ever happens...

 

I mean, the whole system is just messed up, not smooth... not responsive.

 

 

Actually you just described queuing or the lack there of.

IF you cast something and hit another cast before the first one completes it's cycle then one of 2 things will happen.

 

One if the game ques the next ability it will go off as soon as the first one completes it cycle.

 

Second No que means it will ignore ALL cast requests until the current ones cycle is complete.

Your example above describes a no Que condition.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Korizan

[Nanotech]

The reason you "destroy people in warzones" is that you are being catered to by a broken system. Best way I can describe it is this:

 

If there was a game with no GCD at all, the players with the greatest reaction time and twitch would completely dominate. They are forced to think of and begin planning their next move well before they are going to use it.

 

Now, in this game, due to the 1.5 GCD coupled with the additional animation CD for many moves, you have about 2 seconds to decide your next move. So, the playing field becomes "dumbed downed".

 

We are wanting chess, we have checkers. You think you own at checkers. Grats.

 

Btw, I play a BH and I also "destroy in PvP". But guess what, I also destroy in other games PvP and have for many years.

 

Your logic is terrible. TERRIBLE. You're trying waaaay too hard. I seriously doubt you destroy anything in this game when you don't understand the simple fundamentals guiding it. If you're good, then you're good. They don't need to convert SWTOR into WoW just so you can feel like a better player.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Nanotech

[fixit]

So, when I cast a spell that is 2 seconds long, then at the end of the 2 seconds the UI says that the ability is now ready to cast, then I hit the hotkey to cast it and nothing happens because the game is wanting the animation to finish because they couldn't get the animation to end at exactly 2 seconds in development.... I then should contact ATI or Nvidia?

 

I see....

 

Could not understand exactly the issue, now I do. And that IS annoying. I run at 120 FPS and 50ish ping most time and get this same 'bug'. Love how people asssume its the computer when in fact it's because it rarely effects classes that don't rely on casted abilities. Like my Assasin does not experiences this much, while my lvl 50 healy agent does often.

 

ie. cast snipe, then do it again...half time the bar might cancel entirely, or second cast completes and does nothing, or it DOES cast but there is no bar at all. Mmm bugs?

 

edit. gotten to point if I am chain casting, I have to check myself after every cast. 2 sec cast + pause .5 after GCD expires, 2 sec cast + pause .5 after GCD expires, instant cast + pause .5 secs after GCD expires, etc. Not as noticable with classes that use primarily instants, but still there.

Edited December 26, 2011 by fixit

[Morcova]

Very well said OP.

[thestackshow]

As a PvP first player, I cant see myself playing this game long-term if the ability delay isnt removed and is made more fluid.

 

I enjoy all other aspects of the game, but PvP is unplayable, clunky, and unconfortable and I will notbe playing a game long term in which that is the case.

 

Great job on all other aspects though Bioware, and im sure eventually you will get around to changing this game breaking feature.

[tehmoose]

I have also had instant cast moves interrupted. Try to figure that one out.

 

I can't. My head just asploded.

 

I can't tell you the number of times I've clipped "Master Strike" because its not done doing what its doing.

[Mandemalex]

Your logic is terrible. TERRIBLE. You're trying waaaay too hard. I seriously doubt you destroy anything in this game when you don't understand the simple fundamentals guiding it. If you're good, then you're good. They don't need to convert SWTOR into WoW just so you can feel like a better player.

 

Actually his logic is well in check, where is your evidence disproving what he is saying? You say a bunch of rhetoric nonsense about he is 'probably' bad, but actual points disproving him? Fact of the matter is, the longer things take to do, the longer you have to evaluate your next move.

[Nanotech]

By your 'L2Read' comment I shall be cautious in my reply to you, since you are clearly riled up from the previous poster.

 

I'm afraid this makes no sense. One rule for some abilities and another rule for other ones? GCD works on some abilities, but not on others? People should avoid using animated abilities so they're more efficient...?

 

From my point of view, this is a flawed game mechanic. I see what you are saying about instant cast needing a GCD, but in that case - why do the longer cast time abilities a) Take longer than actual cast timer and b) do not apply to the GCD, because of animation?

 

Except it does make sense. It just doesn't make sense to you. It's not that the GCD is only applited to instant-cast abilities, it's applied to every action you make. However, most animations are longer than 1.5 seconds so it only seems that way. It's really that simple. The GCD exists as a governor to control the flow of combat.

[Drawf]

As a PVPer this is killing my experience for this game. I'm sadly finding myself losing interest with each passing day. I don't want to lose interest in this game. But as the OP stated as we get out of the starting worlds, and the new shiny look wears off the cracks are starting to show for sure. I don't want this to be...but it seems inevitable.