Friday Night Team Ranked

[Dacri]

lf team

[Sobre_Dinalt]

Hello,

Before I start asking for help, I suppose I'll introfuce myself as I don't post on the forums often. I started the game as a healing sorcerer--Aeolus. Mainly, my computer sucked so much at the time melee was not an option. Now I play a concealment operative, Zephyros. I'm fairly decent in regs but compared to say, Lucke, Sabir, or Busy, I could use a lot of improvement. Also, just help with understanding ranked so I don't drag down teams all the time would be great. Perhaps if one of you are free this weekend, you could teach me the ways?

--Zeph

 

Just whisper me sometime and I'll help with what I can. Same likely goes for most of the others who have posted here

[gokussjdios]

The one thing Lucke can teach you is the art in getting globaled. That's all, really. He's perfected it.

 

Reported for shaming me on the forums, enjoy your ban.

 

Zeph whisper me in game and I'll help you out, I'd take you and anyone that wants to learn stuff in my group for ranked if we can ever get kickball style groups goin. Tho I'm not really good in group ranked or anything besides getting globaled :'(

Edited May 18, 2015 by gokussjdios

[gokussjdios]

lf team

 

Thought you didn't have any toon left in here

Edited May 18, 2015 by gokussjdios

[foxmob]

Zygo, I think you are truly missing the point. If a given team can beat another given team, they deserve the win, period.

that's not entirely true. or, rather, that doesn't mean the weaker team should keep Qing. for example, if my team's "true" skill is in the1500s (I think that's reasonable for me w/o being narcissistic), but when I queue, I face a shots fired team whose "true" skill is 1700s, then every time I queue up, I'm losing elo while (slightly) feeding elo to the shots fired team. the DR on gaining elo kicks in pretty hard, but every loss still costs elo. thus, my rating continually drops and drops...and by the time I'm around 1400, I'm like, "screw it." I'm better than this, but if I'm going to constantly face these guys, it just pushes me down to a rating that I know is not representative of my skill. why would I keep Qing up?

 

I'm not sure what "right" a new team has to presume they should get 1350 or 1450 or w/e the t2 threshold is, but I certainly understand dodging teams that are head and shoulders better than you. if the grp queue were remotely representative of the pvp population, this would not be an issue. but we all know it's an extremely top-heavy queue. and that, imo, is why it will always be a desert and require these "let's make a date threads"

[Sobre_Dinalt]

that's not entirely true. or, rather, that doesn't mean the weaker team should keep Qing.

 

...and by the time I'm around 1400, I'm like, "screw it." I'm better than this, but if I'm going to constantly face these guys, it just pushes me down to a rating that I know is not representative of my skill. why would I keep Qing up?

 

It is true that whichever team wins deserves the win. That applies to every competitive game, sport, etc in the world. However, you are correct that it is up to each team whether to continue to or not. The thing is, too many people assume they deserve a reward, or a certain rating, or whatever.

 

To be frank, you never deserve anything you aren't able to earn. At the time of this posting, Merris (my sage) has earned a 1700 solo rating, and has earned a 1087 group rating. The reason is because we ran into a better team, and made the decision to better ourselves by fighting them over and over. And while we lost ELO, we gained experience, technique, and capability. So that means when I run into that team again, we have a better chance of pulling off a win. Or if we run into another team, we're going to be even harder to beat than before. Our attitude is not that we 'deserve' to be a 1700 rating team, or a 1500 rating team, or whatever. It's that if we are one, we will earn it regardless of who we run against. And with the current group ranked situation, pops are happening often enough that good teams will rise, average teams will be in the middle, and teams that are struggling will fall.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sobre_Dinalt

[Sobre_Dinalt]

However, your example of fighting over and over and losing then calling it is fine - there iss def a point where banging your head against a wall isnt helping. As long as you try first, and dont give up immediately. This post is here to organize more teams coming together so it is not just one team vs another all the time. Edited May 18, 2015 by Sobre_Dinalt

[ZygomaticBone]

To steal one of Vergere's lines, everything worth learning is gained through pain.

 

If you're brand new and queue up, unless you're all good players, you're bound to get crushed by some of the better guilds. You still might take matches off of other, less-talented groups...but yeah. If you go against my team or a few other teams, you'll get stomped. And if you avoid us, you're never going to improve in that setting. Ever. I used to run a DPS dojo pre 3.0, teaching players certain specs that I myself knew very well. I also have an MA IRL so that I can teach at the collegiate level. I actually like helping players who want to get better at what they're trying to do. And from your statement it's clear that you're either ignorant or that it's you who care about your elo, instead of becoming better as a player. If all you do is queue your group in secret and go against other bad players and guilds (a certain win-trading guild on pubside comes to mind, name withheld because I'm a gentleman like that) then you're going to stay mediocre, regardless of whether you win every single match and get a high rating farming worse players. In that scenario, even if you have a tier 1 rating, what does it matter except to stroke your own epeen? You're still garbage. You'd still get crushed against any good group.

 

Might as well queue up with everyone else, win some, lose some, keep queuing, keep asking questions, and earn people's respect while improving yourselves and your team. Also, like Busy said, where were you preseason 4? Perfect time to learn all this was when rating didn't matter at all. Yet very few teams queued at all.

 

I don't want your help. You charge millions for the Warstalker title (which is very easy to get). Your group is very mercenary in nature at face value.

 

It's not win trading, it's just more on par with my skill and a better chance for me to improve.

 

Again, forum users who notice this threat should realize that all the hawks will be out on Friday. I'm not showing up so this is only to caution you guys on Jung Ma.

 

When you make a forum post you aim to involve the community. The community isn't on par with the teams that plan to show up.

Edited May 18, 2015 by ZygomaticBone

[Impulsive_Clone]

Seems to me there are two arguments being made here.

 

One saying that, organizing a night which groups can queue together for ranked matches, is disingenuous because the people organizing are better than the community as a whole. So, they believe that they are gaining the system to increase their own ELO rating at the expense of the community.

 

The other saying, for this not to be the case, people have to get together and put in the same time and effort that they have, so this won't be the case any more.

 

I think that the simple fact that the people who are good at PvP, have spent the time getting their own faces rolled against better teams, to the point that they got better. They've put their time in. They've spent the hours practicing and getting beaten, over and over again. We've all been new at one point or another. I don't think anyone who is attempting to put this together has some sinister agenda, to increase their own ELO. For the most part, I think they really want competition. But in order for there to be competition, there have to be competitors to compete against. And that is the reason for this whole thread. Telling people to stay away, because you have some half baked idea about people's motives, doesn't really belong here, nor is it based on any factual evidence, I don't think.

 

Sometimes the PvP community can be a bit toxic or elitist, which is what drives people away, but that's another topic.

 

If people are good at what they do, I don't think they should have to play less well or make apologies for it, for others to step up and take a shot. Step up, take your licks like a man, and improve. It's really pretty simple, EVERYONE goes through the same process and, honestly, it's REALLY gratifying when you finally win that match on your own merit, instead of having someone throw the match for you. Or making excuses why you never participate and encouraging people to do the same. Personally speaking, I'd rather win because I won, rather than someone letting me win.

 

TL;DR - You're not doing yourself any favors by circumventing the learning process, by not competing against better people than you.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Impulsive_Clone

[sifudies]

I don't want your help. You charge millions for the Warstalker title (which is very easy to get). Your group is very mercenary in nature at face value.

 

It's not win trading, it's just more on par with my skill and a better chance for me to improve.

 

Again, forum users who notice this threat should realize that all the hawks will be out on Friday. I'm not showing up so this is only to caution you guys on Jung Ma.

 

When you make a forum post you aim to involve the community. The community isn't on par with the teams that plan to show up.

 

How is telling all these people not to queue going to help anybody get better? And what makes you think any of us are going to just queue to steam roll all over you? It's been said that we'd all love to take anybody in on a group to help them learn and get better so they can pass on what they've learned to their guild friends team etc. and make more people experienced enough to go against some of the bigger better teams. This post isn't to let people know when not to queue so they can get their rating and shiny items that mean nothing if its win traded its to help this servers pvp community come together and do more ranked

[MotherAnimal]

Here's something to be considered:

Let's say you're a newer team to ranked, having no prior competitive experience prior to season 5.

You're looking at those tier one rewards and thinking to yourself, "I'm going to get that".

Let's take a team in the professional English football Second Tier getting promoted to the Premier League.

Do you think that those guys are looking at the Title or even a Champions League spot in their first season?

No, they're not. They're going to just try to stay up for next season, get the experience with the league and make a push to improve every season.

If you're a new team in ranked during season 5, you are most likely not going to get your tier 1 and you're not going to be on the top of the ladder.

You should really set your expectations for your rating low if you're new.

You should expect to lose a lot.

BUT you should be looking to improve and looking to how you can compete next season.

If you're setting these unrealistic expectations for you and your team, you're going to get scared of losing rating and you're going to make mistakes.

 

At this point how ranked works, you can do 1 of 2 things:

 

Transfer. There a probably more teams on other servers and you'll more likely get the competition that's tailored to your skill level.

 

or

 

You can get better.

Queue up for ranked. Talk to the people who you think are good or have high ratings, get in their voice chat, pvp with them.

Listen to them and how they communicate.

Learn how they set up their teams and compositions.

What I've seen with most new teams that weren't so hot is that they don't have the communication, they don't have a shot caller, they don't set marks, they don't have CC roles or anything like that.

If you want to know what all of that is about, play and talk to the experienced people and copy what they do.

And then queue more and you'll still probably lose, but you'll see you're getting better and the games are getting closer.

Sooner or later you're going to be taking Elo off the better teams and your confidence will start to rise.

Sure, you might miss out on the Nexu mount or whatever this season but next season you're going to have a winner's mentality and a better attitude and alot more experience and skill to compete next season, and hell, you might even get tier 1.

[gokussjdios]

Seems to me there are two arguments being made here.

 

One saying that, organizing a night which groups can queue together for ranked matches, is disingenuous because the people organizing are better than the community as a whole. So, they believe that they are gaining the system to increase their own ELO rating at the expense of the community.

 

The other saying, for this not to be the case, people have to get together and put in the same time and effort that they have, so this won't be the case any more.

 

I think that the simple fact that the people who are good at PvP, have spent the time getting their own faces rolled against better teams, to the point that they got better. They've put their time in. They've spent the hours practicing and getting beaten, over and over again. We've all been new at one point or another. I don't think anyone who is attempting to put this together has some sinister agenda, to increase their own ELO. For the most part, I think they really want competition. But in order for there to be competition, there have to be competitors to compete against. And that is the reason for this whole thread. Telling people to stay away, because you have some half baked idea about people's motives, doesn't really belong here, nor is it based on any factual evidence, I don't think.

 

Sometimes the PvP community can be a bit toxic or elitist, which is what drives people away, but that's another topic.

 

If people are good at what they do, I don't think they should have to play less well or make apologies for it, for others to step up and take a shot. Step up, take your licks like a man, and improve. It's really pretty simple, EVERYONE goes through the same process and, honestly, it's REALLY gratifying when you finally win that match on your own merit, instead of having someone throw the match for you. Or making excuses why you never participate and encouraging people to do the same. Personally speaking, I'd rather win because I won, rather than someone letting me win.

 

TL;DR - You're not doing yourself any favors by circumventing the learning process, by not competing against better people than you.

 

THIS. Thank you! To be honest any PvPer much rather go against a better team and lose with good match and learn new stuff than just roflstomp someone. It is why we've tried to offer help, get more teams to queue and don't even run a stacked fotm group or something. We'd be avoiding <Shots Fired> team and stuff if Zygomatic's guess about us was right.

[Aetrus]

I don't want your help. You charge millions for the Warstalker title (which is very easy to get). Your group is very mercenary in nature at face value.

 

It's not win trading, it's just more on par with my skill and a better chance for me to improve.

 

A) I don't charge anything. That's my guild, of which I am a member and have approximately zero say in what we sell or the prices we set for vanity sales.

 

B) You're the one who cares so strongly about your rating and your own ego being undeservedly stroked. I queue group ranked on my Gunslinger, which is probably my 4th or 5th best class. Why? Because my main was the best PT/VG on the server in solos and groups for three seasons now, and it'd be boring to walk over every other DPS in group ranked. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else and don't need to farm a group of 14-year olds who probably play at an 1100 skill level to feel good about what I do. I play my Gunslinger to challenge myself, learn the spec/class/matchups and improve where I'm weak.

 

C) Have fun not queuing when everyone else is. You aren't going to hit tier 1 without win-trading, and if you do it's obvious who you are and will be so easy to report and have your rating stripped and you temp banned. You also aren't going to learn anything worth knowing by beating Brothers Grimm or Systems, whom a lot of people noticed you queuing against yesterday. Great competition, really.

 

I thought I was civil enough in my first post but this guy's a douche and doesn't deserve anything but the garbage he's spouting out of his uninformed small-minded little mouth. Bads will be bad, and that's the last post I'm devoting to such an ignorant dimwit.

[Wystan]

Wait aetrus i thought you played your gunslinger because you don't want me doubling your dps on your main so you go on your crappy alt . but in all seriousness if you don't want to q against us then don't. Have fun farming *******s or even losing to them. You won't get better and it will still require no effort from any good team to demolish you.

"Sorry we're good" -Taelord 2015

 

p.s. i love you aetrus

[ZygomaticBone]

A You aren't going to hit tier 1 without win-trading, and if you do it's obvious who you are and will be so easy to report and have your rating stripped and you temp banned.

 

It's not about winning, it's about facing people I have a chance of winning against. I just want fun matches that aren't facerolls.

 

However, your example of fighting over and over and losing then calling it is fine - there iss def a point where banging your head against a wall isnt helping. As long as you try first, and dont give up immediately. This post is here to organize more teams coming together so it is not just one team vs another all the time.

 

There, I lost a match to you. Are you satisfied?

Edited May 18, 2015 by ZygomaticBone

[Sobre_Dinalt]

There I lost a match to you. Are you satisfied?

 

?

 

There were teams in q, we found people who wanted to participate, and we q'd. Then you one and done'd it against me on my Commando, the Brothers Grimm healer, Greg on tank, and Aravail (and we've never, ever run as a group before - it was a PUG). You put up a solid fight with your double dps-geared assassin tank team. I sincerely don't understand what you're upset about. I even went over and offered to help out afterwards because you're making a big deal about all this and you just ignored me. There is a common theme here dude - your attitude is terrible. Until you fix that, you're not gonna get anywhere. Get your head straight.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sobre_Dinalt

[Dacri]

Thought you didn't have any toon left in here

 

made like 15k ccs with the ref things, im gonna be moving a lot hah

[Zoom_VI]

The issue is not that Vicious is the top ranked guild, the issue is that Vicious is the only ranked guild on the server, or at least the only stable ranked guild. No homegrown team will ever upset Vicious since if any team queues against Vicious with the consistency to improve their game enough to be considered competitive they will have in the process taught Vicious all the best ways to take them apart, much in the same way a parent knows all of their child's faults.

This is problematic long run because it means there is no light at the end of the tunnel for new teams, and you don't need a psychiatrist to know that if people have zero chance of success, then their motivation to continue is going to be very low to non-existent.

 

The only way I think Jung Ma will ever see a good team ranked participation is if a large number of new teams all show up all at the same time. Despite what Vicious thinks, new teams playing new teams can and will leads to stronger teams long run. What qualified as a top tier team back in the early days of ranked 8v8 was way lower than what qualified a top tier team at the time of 8v8s removal, simply because the brand new teams of 1.3 slowly improves strategies and invented new ones over time.

Heck I honestly believe the singular factor that lead to the gradual death of team ranked arenas is that ranked arenas where predated by ranked 8v8 which meant that there where already dominant teams with loads of ranked experience on the very first day of ranked arenas.

[Sounders_Fan]

I think the issue that stifled ranked, both 8v8 and 4v4 was the rather terrible class balance at the time those where introduced. now, this is going a ways back, but I seem to recall in 8v8 that if you didn't have 2 kick *** snipers/slingers your team was effed.

 

class balance right now is pretty good; but it wasn't when ranked was introduced. fast forward to season 2/3 of the 4v4 and folks got tired of losing to FOTM teams, tired of almost having to reroll FOTM to compete and then being steam rolled by those that played a class since launch that got buffed into FOTM.

 

now you have teams from Shots Fired that have a bunch of really good players, that are good in multiple roles, classes and tactics that beat up on everyone.

 

and something that many haven't addressed: its summer.

 

The Guardians have lost a lot off our pvpers to the better weather, other games and life events. Our best pvp healers, tanks and many others of our better PVPers are not playing currently; of our active player base, if we could get our 4 best to play at the same time, we could put together a decent team. one that may even make shots fired work for the win a few times; but I have no allusions that we would win much more than maybe 2 out of every 10 games against all comers. as crinn noted, losing all the time wears on you and you start to return to regular WZs.

 

When my time stabilizes outside of game I hope to at least get into the solo q on my guardian some more than I did last season.

[foxmob]

This post is here to organize more teams coming together so it is not just one team vs another all the time.

 

yeah. I know. I think they're a good idea. but I wouldn't bring my grp of bads into it either. I accept that if vicious and ghost and ruining lives want to sync up, that they can and should. but's more of a spectator sport for the "common man" these days.

 

I totally agree with you on the entitlement thing. lol it's not just video games though. it's culture in general. dude signs up for a gen ed. and thinks he automatically deserves to pass. heh not in my class, bub.

Edited May 19, 2015 by foxmob

[foxmob]

I think the issue that stifled ranked, both 8v8 and 4v4 was the rather terrible class balance at the time those where introduced. now, this is going a ways back, but I seem to recall in 8v8 that if you didn't have 2 kick *** snipers/slingers your team was effed.

 

class balance right now is pretty good; but it wasn't when ranked was introduced. fast forward to season 2/3 of the 4v4 and folks got tired of losing to FOTM teams, tired of almost having to reroll FOTM to compete and then being steam rolled by those that played a class since launch that got buffed into FOTM.

 

now you have teams from Shots Fired that have a bunch of really good players, that are good in multiple roles, classes and tactics that beat up on everyone.

 

and something that many haven't addressed: its summer.

 

The Guardians have lost a lot off our pvpers to the better weather, other games and life events. Our best pvp healers, tanks and many others of our better PVPers are not playing currently; of our active player base, if we could get our 4 best to play at the same time, we could put together a decent team. one that may even make shots fired work for the win a few times; but I have no allusions that we would win much more than maybe 2 out of every 10 games against all comers. as crinn noted, losing all the time wears on you and you start to return to regular WZs.

 

When my time stabilizes outside of game I hope to at least get into the solo q on my guardian some more than I did last season.

8v8 required specific ACs and specs, but the party was (literally and figuratively) larger. You NEEDED a guardian who could respec tank for huttball, and you NEEDED a person to pick up the ball at mid (sniper > sin > everyone else). you NEEDED a carnage mara predation for almost every WZ. you really really really wanted a PT tank for vstar (tunnels). you NEEDED an op healer (just much better at the time). you NEEDED a stealth to guard a node. there were a ton of needs, but it wasn't nearly as pigeon-holed as 4's. that's a huge difference that I don't think anyone can deny...having nothing to do with emotional dispositions.

[Zoom_VI]

Class balance has nothing to do with the popularity of ranked. There are games with balance that is way worse than SWTOR's but are way more competitive.

[ZygomaticBone]

You can get better.

Sooner or later you're going to be taking Elo off the better teams and your confidence will start to rise.

Sure, you might miss out on the Nexu mount or whatever this season but next season you're going to have a winner's mentality and a better attitude and alot more experience and skill to compete next season, and hell, you might even get tier 1.

A big issue for me is that most of the teams doing ranked seem to be on pubside. Even if I transfer my stuff I will still be missing most of my left side and unable to participate in ranked with the republic.

 

I apologize to Aetrus. I didn't aim to personally attack you, but I was simply stating my initial impressions of the group (I did say face value). I really would prefer to learn as much as possible on my own.

 

I don't hate you guys or blame you for queing with competent friends. It is just that I don't think it is productive for me to face teams way above my skill. If you would be willing to do a kickball mixup event I would be all for it.

Edited May 19, 2015 by ZygomaticBone

[gokussjdios]

A big issue for me is that most of the teams doing ranked seem to be on pubside. Even if I transfer my stuff I will still be missing most of my left side and unable to participate in ranked with the republic.

 

I apologize to Aetrus. I didn't aim to personally attack you, but I was simply stating my initial impressions of the group (I did say face value). I really would prefer to learn as much as possible on my own.

 

I don't hate you guys or blame you for queing with competent friends. It is just that I don't think it is productive for me to face teams way above my skill. If you would be willing to do a kickball mixup event I would be all for it.

 

See now that's a different attitude, and really there's no problem with you not wanting to queue no one can force you. And yeah about the kickball thing is something I'd like and be willing to do of course if there's 2+ kickball teams and no superteam in queue cause you wouldn't get to teach anything under the pressure of a better team haha.

[gokussjdios]

made like 15k ccs with the ref things

 

Holy **** teach me, master.