Lethality OP's in ranked

[stridemachine]

I've been playing Ruffian since 2.0 and absolutely love the playstyle -- it is hands down my favorite class in any MMO. However, I can't seem to make it work in ranked. I've read a few posts by people claiming Lethality is ranked viable -- I'd love to see what I'm doing wrong and what you're doing right. To that end I'm asking all the greats to please post some videos of ranked matches against good players/teams. I'd love to learn to play the class better.

 

In fact, I'd love to see regular warzone videos as well. Showcase yourself against stacked teams/focus targetted/well coordinated players -- IMO so much more can be learned by seeing how players handle difficlut circumstances than by watching one-sided, spawn camping videos.

Thanks!

[stephenalandavie]

Lethality in pvp?. Don't get me wrong play what style which suits you but in ranked?. lethality has no place there really. Regs are fine any spec is. But in ranked i wouldn't if i were you.

[Armadyil]

I have been thinking about this... Unfortunately, I don't know how to record, edit, post etc etc. Not much of a wizkid

 

When I go to a computer store, I ask for a 'good computer'...

 

If I can get myself motivated, I'll certainly post it on these forums (won't be any time soon, got stuff to do the coming weeks). Maybe the holidays are the right time...

[Armadyil]

Btw I also looked on YT for good Leth Operative vids. The best I found were of Helos Swtor, he only made 2 and they were of regulars, but he plays really good; I'd certainly advise to look at 'm

[Fellow-Canadian]

Ruffian is regstar viable but I would not use the spec for ranked.

 

Ruffian has an extremely long ramp up time before you do any burst and even after the ramp up time it's not always possible to reliably get off a full rotation. Scrapper burst by comparison has no ramp up time and the burst is almost immediate. You could say ruffian playstyle in ranked is high risk medium reward and scraper is low risk high reward.

 

In 3.0 the ruffian dots on their own don't even hurt. It's total crap damage so the old 2.0 playstyle of sitting in the back and throwing out dots isn't viable in 3.0 anymore. 40% of ruffian damage is in brutal shots alone so if you're not spamming brutal shots a lot your damage will be garbage.

 

Ruffian healing is actually really strong but it has to be because the spec needs to be able outlast people to kill them. The really high gcd requirement to perform any meaningful damage limits the potential of this spec for ranked.

[dego-harmonium]

Both operative dps spec's are not optimal for ranked unfortunately, its arguably one of the worst AC's for ranked. If you find it fun for regs go nuts, but concealment is the superior pvp spec. Lethality as a pressure spec should be able to pull 2kdps easily in regs, but it doesn't, currently concealment pulls better dps Edited May 11, 2015 by dego-harmonium

[Adovir]

Ruffian is regstar viable but I would not use the spec for ranked.

 

Ruffian has an extremely long ramp up time before you do any burst and even after the ramp up time it's not always possible to reliably get off a full rotation. Scrapper burst by comparison has no ramp up time and the burst is almost immediate. You could say ruffian playstyle in ranked is high risk medium reward and scraper is low risk high reward.

 

In 3.0 the ruffian dots on their own don't even hurt. It's total crap damage so the old 2.0 playstyle of sitting in the back and throwing out dots isn't viable in 3.0 anymore. 40% of ruffian damage is in brutal shots alone so if you're not spamming brutal shots a lot your damage will be garbage.

 

Ruffian healing is actually really strong but it has to be because the spec needs to be able outlast people to kill them. The really high gcd requirement to perform any meaningful damage limits the potential of this spec for ranked.

 

While I don't fully agree with how he did it, one of the guys in my guild made T1 with using ruffian, by focusing on healing and syncing ques while the good players were playing republic, a 1661 to be exact

Edited May 11, 2015 by Adovir

[stridemachine]

I have been thinking about this... Unfortunately, I don't know how to record, edit, post etc etc. Not much of a wizkid

 

When I go to a computer store, I ask for a 'good computer'...

 

If I can get myself motivated, I'll certainly post it on these forums (won't be any time soon, got stuff to do the coming weeks). Maybe the holidays are the right time...

 

Bandicam is a good source. I also believe youtube has some basic video editing features -- I don't think you'd need to do much work to a video outside of editing out respawn time.

 

Both operative dps spec's are not optimal for ranked unfortunately, its arguably one of the worst AC's for ranked. If you find it fun for regs go nuts, but concealment is the superior pvp spec. Lethality as a pressure spec should be able to pull 2kdps easily in regs, but it doesn't, currently concealment pulls better dps

 

I miss those old days pre 3.0, when our dot's mattered; we had sab charge and flyby. When 3.0 hit I felt impotent.

 

Anyways, still on the lookout for new videos. Any takers?

[stephenalandavie]

Bandicam is a good source. I also believe youtube has some basic video editing features -- I don't think you'd need to do much work to a video outside of editing out respawn time.

 

 

 

I miss those old days pre 3.0, when our dot's mattered; we had sab charge and flyby. When 3.0 hit I felt impotent.

 

Anyways, still on the lookout for new videos. Any takers?

If your doing ranked just switch to concealment.

[Cotlu-Hunlon]

Btw I also looked on YT for good Leth Operative vids. The best I found were of Helos Swtor, he only made 2 and they were of regulars, but he plays really good; I'd certainly advise to look at 'm

 

Hey Armadyil, Helos here

 

Thanks for the shoutout, and not for the first time I've noticed either I have eyes everywhere!

 

About you wanting to make videos I'm more than happy to show you what you need and point you in the right directions. It's really very simple

 

---------------------

 

As for Ruffian in ranked, yeah it's garbage. Sorry, there's no beating around the holo-tree.

Very fun pre-60, a complete soggy noodle at 60 content

[Armadyil]

Hey Armadyil, Helos here

 

Thanks for the shoutout, and not for the first time I've noticed either I have eyes everywhere!

 

About you wanting to make videos I'm more than happy to show you what you need and point you in the right directions. It's really very simple

[/Quote]

Hey

 

Thanks for your offer to show me some things about making vids, I'd like that, especially because I prefer your style of videos (constant gameplay with comments in text).

 

It just won't happen the coming time, as I'm going on a 2 week excursion abroad soon (ah, work ), but I'll really keep it in mind. PS: I'd like it if you make more Ruffian vids!!

 

As for Ruffian in ranked, yeah it's garbage. Sorry, there's no beating around the holo-tree.

Very fun pre-60, a complete soggy noodle at 60 content

I wouldn't say it's garbage, I'd pick a Lethality/Ruffian a 100 times over a sent, merc or sniper, if only because I then live long enough to do stuff... There are better specs for sure, but it can work imo.

[Adovir]

Hey

 

Thanks for your offer to show me some things about making vids, I'd like that, especially because I prefer your style of videos (constant gameplay with comments in text).

 

It just won't happen the coming time, as I'm going on a 2 week excursion abroad soon (ah, work ), but I'll really keep it in mind. PS: I'd like it if you make more Ruffian vids!!

 

 

I wouldn't say it's garbage, I'd pick a Lethality/Ruffian a 100 times over a sent, merc or sniper, if only because I then live long enough to do stuff... There are better specs for sure, but it can work imo.

 

I can't play leth in ranked because conc has spoiled me with immunity roll, it just feels so empty with out it

[Armadyil]

I can't play leth in ranked because conc has spoiled me with immunity roll, it just feels so empty with out it

 

Hehe, yea losing that would feel like a major nerf, I get that. It lets you stay much longer in the fight and is a great escape mechanism. On Lethality it's a little more 'hope I don't get focussed '

Edited May 14, 2015 by Armadyil

[Rion_Starkiller]

I got a solo 1350+ rating, with most matches as ruffian.

 

With that said, I think that it's important to focus on slows, roots, stuns, dots, and even hots, while your teammates burst your opponents down. Once everyone is dotted, and your stuns are on CD, go back to the primary target and burst them down with brutal shots. You will probably not be highest dps, but you are versatile and slippery.

 

In the end, it'll probably come down to what class/spec everyone else is playing.

[diadox]

Leth is quite good in solo ranked... ...up until the point where anything remotely bursty focuses you. You get forced to go completely defensive and lose all output because burst defense is **** and so much survivability is on the gcd. What the spec has going for it is pretty much the best Hatred defense in the game between Evasion and 30% dot DR. Then again, it has awful offense against sins, so in the games where you can actually take proper advantage of that anti Hatred defense you get forced into offheal dull-mode because trying to set up for the burst is pointless until late-game. /endrant

 

Performance of the spec isn't amazing, but it's also not horrible. My biggest issue with it in solo ranked is more that in the context of the game mode it will often lose the playstyle that makes the spec fun to me.

Edited May 31, 2015 by diadox

[Shred_the_Cheese]

Ruffian is defiantly viable. The current top scoundrel, Whïte, plays only ruffian with a 2084 rating. It works for him cause 1.) he's amazing, and 2.) he throws out hots and dots constantly and plays a huge 'support' role in matches. And it's not just viable in just dps matches. It's especially helpful if you have a competent tank (because you can keep hots rolling on him) as well as in healer matches. Four brutal shots after a Point Blank Shot deal quite a chunk of dmg. And most of the time you'll be able to free cast in healer matches since the strat usually consists of everyone sitting on either a healer, vg, slinger, or something of that nature. If you're focus in matches, unless you up against 4 scapper scoundrels, you probably won't die as long as you roll out early and keep hots up. You have to play ruffian with more caution since you don't have your troll-roll.

[stridemachine]

Ruffian is defiantly viable. The current top scoundrel, Whïte, plays only ruffian with a 2084 rating. It works for him cause 1.) he's amazing, and 2.) he throws out hots and dots constantly and plays a huge 'support' role in matches. And it's not just viable in just dps matches. It's especially helpful if you have a competent tank (because you can keep hots rolling on him) as well as in healer matches. Four brutal shots after a Point Blank Shot deal quite a chunk of dmg. And most of the time you'll be able to free cast in healer matches since the strat usually consists of everyone sitting on either a healer, vg, slinger, or something of that nature. If you're focus in matches, unless you up against 4 scapper scoundrels, you probably won't die as long as you roll out early and keep hots up. You have to play ruffian with more caution since you don't have your troll-roll.

 

Does this guy stream or post videos on youtube?

[Shred_the_Cheese]

Does this guy stream or post videos on youtube?

 

Not that I know of, no

[Nefczi]

Ruffian is defiantly viable. The current top scoundrel, Whïte, plays only ruffian with a 2084 rating. It works for him cause 1.) he's amazing, and 2.) he throws out hots and dots constantly and plays a huge 'support' role in matches. And it's not just viable in just dps matches. It's especially helpful if you have a competent tank (because you can keep hots rolling on him) as well as in healer matches. Four brutal shots after a Point Blank Shot deal quite a chunk of dmg. And most of the time you'll be able to free cast in healer matches since the strat usually consists of everyone sitting on either a healer, vg, slinger, or something of that nature. If you're focus in matches, unless you up against 4 scapper scoundrels, you probably won't die as long as you roll out early and keep hots up. You have to play ruffian with more caution since you don't have your troll-roll.

 

The problem with all this is that the moment you are focused, you cannot do your job(dps/support) cos you have to go all out defensive. And Ruffian/Lethality has one of the worst anti-focus/burst defensives in game. Most of the time you will be forced to use your combat stealth early, cos even if you pop all your defensive CDs(which most of are on GCD, so you cannot do anthing else in the meantime) you gonna melt fast. Our dots are great in 1v 1 situations and when you suffer sustained damage, but they become quite insignificant when you get focused/bursted. Same goes for our other defensive CDs. The only "oh sh**" defense is going stealth, which removes us from the fight for the duration turning a match into 3 vs 4.

 

Problem with Lethality/Ruffian is that both, your offense and defense has very long setup times. That doesnt work well in enviroment(ranked) where fast target switching and target focusing/bursting down are crushial.

[Rion_Starkiller]

The problem with all this is that the moment you are focused, you cannot do your job(dps/support) cos you have to go all out defensive. And Ruffian/Lethality has one of the worst anti-focus/burst defensives in game. Most of the time you will be forced to use your combat stealth early, cos even if you pop all your defensive CDs(which most of are on GCD, so you cannot do anthing else in the meantime) you gonna melt fast. Our dots are great in 1v 1 situations and when you suffer sustained damage, but they become quite insignificant when you get focused/bursted. Same goes for our other defensive CDs. The only "oh sh**" defense is going stealth, which removes us from the fight for the duration turning a match into 3 vs 4.

 

Problem with Lethality/Ruffian is that both, your offense and defense has very long setup times. That doesnt work well in enviroment(ranked) where fast target switching and target focusing/bursting down are crushial.

 

^This

 

Spot on 100%

[Quarast]

The problem with all this is that the moment you are focused, you cannot do your job(dps/support) cos you have to go all out defensive. And Ruffian/Lethality has one of the worst anti-focus/burst defensives in game. Most of the time you will be forced to use your combat stealth early, cos even if you pop all your defensive CDs(which most of are on GCD, so you cannot do anthing else in the meantime) you gonna melt fast. Our dots are great in 1v 1 situations and when you suffer sustained damage, but they become quite insignificant when you get focused/bursted. Same goes for our other defensive CDs. The only "oh sh**" defense is going stealth, which removes us from the fight for the duration turning a match into 3 vs 4.

 

Problem with Lethality/Ruffian is that both, your offense and defense has very long setup times. That doesnt work well in enviroment(ranked) where fast target switching and target focusing/bursting down are crushial.

 

I think- and this is just a personal view- that when the specs were created, lethality was meant to have defense against sustained dps, while concealment was meant to be able to mitigate more burst damage. The heal and hots in lethalitu are very strong sustained heals, to the point where hatred with its op burst might get you, but poor madness sorcs will have a hell of a time. Concealment roll speaks for itself:cool:

[Odyseus]

Lethality is IMO the best spec for Regs. I win 99.9% of on my one on ones, can assist in healing, can reach objectives quickly with roll, can debuff the opposition with poisons and very hard to kill which leads to many times where multiple players are trying to rage kill me and ignoring the objectives due to their bloodlust which tips the scales in my teams favor by drawing them away from the objective.

 

Now when it comes to ranked. I do well in the first round. After that I'm focused and I'm relegated to kiting and healing myself and not putting out meaningful DPS since it's ramp up DPS. This is what frustrates me about this game. These classes are not balanced for 4 on 4 matches. That's why you see the same FOTM dominating. I like regs better anyway. I don't need any titles or shinning gear to know my worth. I will continue to be a regstar playing Lethality. Concealment is powerful, but gets boring to play really fast.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Odyseus