xxtwofivexx Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Now I know why people like this spec in PvP. Just got min maxed in exhumed yesterday after leveling through PvP. I am amazed at the burst potential this spec has. I am absolutely loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaybred Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Glad you liked it. Please come back after experiencing the lack if dcd's in solo ranked, and feel you could trade some (alot) burst for some actually working dcd's. Happy hunting :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derzelaz Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Wait till you get in a solo ranked vs 3 sins and a sorc. That's when the ragequi-...I mean, when the fun starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterflyBullet Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Hmmm, I rerolled AP PT from Juggernaut recently. The reason I did so is because I believe that, even though the PT doesn't have as many defensive CDs as the juggernaut, its a much more viable class in solo ranked. My reasons follow: 1 - PT is one of the only 3 classes at the top of the solo leaderboards, along with sin and sorc. Both in S4 and S5. Juggernaut is nowhere to be seen. You can scream L2P all you want, but its hard to argue with such statistical evidence. 2 - A PT doesn't have to stay put when its getting nuked... A PT has massive mobility. Not only that but, crucially, running away from a melee dps or a cluster ****, does not gimp our dps. With TD, RS, and ED having a range of 30 meters we can still hit pretty hard on the run or at a safe distance. 3 - We still have heavy armour. That's not to be sniffed at. So in essence I think we trade defensive cooldowns for mobility and range, whilst still being able to mix it up at short range when required. Defensive cooldowns are no use if all they mean is that you can survive another couple of global cooldowns in a stun lock whilst getting focussed by 3 sins.... With all the CDs in the world, you're still gonna die, quickly, and you're still not gonna get any damage done... No, personally I happily trade defensive cooldowns for the ability to run away to a safe distance effectively negating aoe and melee damage at will, without gimping my dps. This is the great trade we make as PTs, and that's what makes us viable as opposed to unviable... Edited May 13, 2015 by ButterflyBullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaybred Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Wel just know that many of those are tanks. And not ap pt. Other than that all I can say is enjoy the pt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 The biggest issue about AP (at least in my experience) is that it's burst is incredibly predictable unless you bait with thermal det in which case ... what burst? oh yeah and 2 CD's, one of which only works at low health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxeDragoneth Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 oh yeah and 2 CD's, one of which only works at low health And can be burst through like you never even popped it. Wait until you get opened on by two sins and an op. shroud shroud dodge = no missile heals, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahavery Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Hmmm, I rerolled AP PT from Juggernaut recently. The reason I did so is because I believe that, even though the PT doesn't have as many defensive CDs as the juggernaut, its a much more viable class in solo ranked. My reasons follow: 1 - PT is one of the only 3 classes at the top of the solo leaderboards, along with sin and sorc. Both in S4 and S5. Juggernaut is nowhere to be seen. You can scream L2P all you want, but its hard to argue with such statistical evidence. 2 - A PT doesn't have to stay put when its getting nuked... A PT has massive mobility. Not only that but, crucially, running away from a melee dps or a cluster ****, does not gimp our dps. With TD, RS, and ED having a range of 30 meters we can still hit pretty hard on the run or at a safe distance. 3 - We still have heavy armour. That's not to be sniffed at. So in essence I think we trade defensive cooldowns for mobility and range, whilst still being able to mix it up at short range when required. Defensive cooldowns are no use if all they mean is that you can survive another couple of global cooldowns in a stun lock whilst getting focussed by 3 sins.... With all the CDs in the world, you're still gonna die, quickly, and you're still not gonna get any damage done... No, personally I happily trade defensive cooldowns for the ability to run away to a safe distance effectively negating aoe and melee damage at will, without gimping my dps. This is the great trade we make as PTs, and that's what makes us viable as opposed to unviable... I recently decided to do exactly the opposite, lol. My main was a PT - both AP and tank spec at times - and I decided to reroll a guardian/jug vigilance/vengeance spec for solo ranked. I did so because I think the tankiness of guardian/juggernaut fits my play-style better: jump into the fray with reckless abandon while doing some good damage. Hopefully my opponents run out of health before I do You have a lot of good points here, and I can see you spent a lot of time figuring out you wanted to re-roll. I just thought I'd add my two cents and play devil's advocate. 1) Cant argue with your #1. I would say most of the PT's on top of the leaderboard got there in AP spec. Why do I think that? Damage kills people, which wins matches. Tanks don't do as much damage, so have less of an impact on the outcome of a match. I'd like to hear Rahc's perspective on this, but when I rolled tank spec I always felt hostage to my team's draw on dps. Even if I protected my rear off it felt like the team with higher dps numbers usually came out on top. 2) Mobility is key. I agree. As a jugg in ranked it is very possible to get kited by an elite PT or VG. I have some tools to stop that, like an immobilize on saber throw, leap, and ravage. Stun you when you pop Hyrdaulic overrides, etc. However, I never fully grasped the kiting aspect of PT. And if you cant do that you get focused and die quickly. So, rather than alter my play-style, I chose to roll a class that WANTS to be as close as possible to opponents. So in essence, I believe everything comes down to preferred play-style and doing what you are best at. For you, it sounds like PT/VG is a good fit. 3) You do have heavy armor. In my experience, in full 168 pvp gear you have around 27% dmg reduction to energy and kinetic (correct me if im wrong, types of damage gets confusing for me at times). However, my Vengeance Jugg has 32% thanks to a passive 5% reduction for the discipline. So a jug is tankier, no question about it. Better mitigation and better effective health, thanks to our heal to full cooldown. Just something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaybred Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) All those true and amazing facts of the class and yet one if the absolute easiest classes to burn down relatively easy and pain free. Not to mention lock down. Wonder how this is. Edited May 14, 2015 by Slaybred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Hmmm, I rerolled AP PT from Juggernaut recently. The reason I did so is because I believe that, even though the PT doesn't have as many defensive CDs as the juggernaut, its a much more viable class in solo ranked. My reasons follow: 1 - PT is one of the only 3 classes at the top of the solo leaderboards, along with sin and sorc. Both in S4 and S5. Juggernaut is nowhere to be seen. You can scream L2P all you want, but its hard to argue with such statistical evidence. 2 - A PT doesn't have to stay put when its getting nuked... A PT has massive mobility. Not only that but, crucially, running away from a melee dps or a cluster ****, does not gimp our dps. With TD, RS, and ED having a range of 30 meters we can still hit pretty hard on the run or at a safe distance. 3 - We still have heavy armour. That's not to be sniffed at. So in essence I think we trade defensive cooldowns for mobility and range, whilst still being able to mix it up at short range when required. Defensive cooldowns are no use if all they mean is that you can survive another couple of global cooldowns in a stun lock whilst getting focussed by 3 sins.... With all the CDs in the world, you're still gonna die, quickly, and you're still not gonna get any damage done... No, personally I happily trade defensive cooldowns for the ability to run away to a safe distance effectively negating aoe and melee damage at will, without gimping my dps. This is the great trade we make as PTs, and that's what makes us viable as opposed to unviable... All those true and amazing facts of the class and yet one if the absolute easiest classes to burn down relatively easy and pain free. Not to mention lock down. Wonder how this is. Just que-sync teams or ST tank in leaderboard. AP in an uncoordinated team has little chance. Focused and out. Edited May 14, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterflyBullet Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Focused and out. And I think THIS is the main point... EVERY SINGLE CLASS EXCEPT SIN AND SORC] suffer from this problem... There is NO class that can withstand focus from 3 dps for very long at all, or do much damage whilst being stun locked and nuked... BUUUT, Sorc has bubble and heal to full, plus range, plus massive mobility, and cc; and Sin has stealthlolbai, and cc. THAT'S why those classes are top of the ranked; because they can avoid getting nuked out of the game in a few GCDs... Plus sorc can still do damage at range... And sin... well sin are extremely good at focusing, which is very important in arena. So where does that leave powertech? Well, it has the great mobility that sorcs have and swaps bubble and healttofull plus cc, for armour and instant casts. Yes, PTs are more squishy than Juggers, but that doesn't matter at all because Juggers have no way of avoiding the damage whilst still being effective in a fight. So actually PTs are much more likely to be able to have an impact in a fight, cos they can avoid the **** storm whilst still dealing damage... Juggers have no way to avoid the unbearable, colossal amounts of damage and cc, whilst remaining an effective dps... Edited May 14, 2015 by ButterflyBullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) And I think THIS is the main point... EVERY SINGLE CLASS EXCEPT SIN AND SORC] suffer from this problem... There is NO class that can withstand focus from 3 dps for very long at all, or do much damage whilst being stun locked and nuked... BUUUT, Sorc has bubble and heal to full, plus range, plus massive mobility, and cc; and Sin has stealthlolbai, and cc. THAT'S why those classes are top of the ranked; because they can avoid getting nuked out of the game in a few GCDs... Plus sorc can still do damage at range... And sin... well sin are extremely good at focusing, which is very important in arena. So where does that leave powertech? Well, it has the great mobility that sorcs have and swaps bubble and healttofull plus cc, for armour and instant casts. Yes, PTs are more squishy than Juggers, but that doesn't matter at all because Juggers have no way of avoiding the damage whilst still being effective in a fight. So actually PTs are much more likely to be able to have an impact in a fight, cos they can avoid the **** storm whilst still dealing damage... Juggers have no way to avoid the unbearable, colossal amounts of damage and cc, whilst remaining an effective dps... AP PT suffer more (unless there is a merc in yolo ) because is often targeted due to its burst. Edited May 14, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavrinDosa Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) And I think THIS is the main point... EVERY SINGLE CLASS EXCEPT SIN AND SORC] suffer from this problem... There is NO class that can withstand focus from 3 dps for very long at all, or do much damage whilst being stun locked and nuked... BUUUT, Sorc has bubble and heal to full, plus range, plus massive mobility, and cc; and Sin has stealthlolbai, and cc. THAT'S why those classes are top of the ranked; because they can avoid getting nuked out of the game in a few GCDs... Plus sorc can still do damage at range... And sin... well sin are extremely good at focusing, which is very important in arena. So where does that leave powertech? Well, it has the great mobility that sorcs have and swaps bubble and healttofull plus cc, for armour and instant casts. Yes, PTs are more squishy than Juggers, but that doesn't matter at all because Juggers have no way of avoiding the damage whilst still being effective in a fight. So actually PTs are much more likely to be able to have an impact in a fight, cos they can avoid the **** storm whilst still dealing damage... Juggers have no way to avoid the unbearable, colossal amounts of damage and cc, whilst remaining an effective dps... You're not playing jugg right. Juggs are never the focused target in ranked because they take forever to burst down because of ED. They can do whatever they want in 4s because of this. PTs job in 4s is to kill one player before they kill you and hope your team wins. I would trade our bUrst in a heart beat if it meant more survivability. PTs are more squishy than cloth wearers and that's a huge problem Edited May 14, 2015 by tavrinDosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterflyBullet Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 You're not playing jugg right. Juggs are never the focused target in ranked because they take forever to burst down because of ED. They can do whatever they want in 4s because of this. PTs job in 4s is to kill one player before they kill you and hope your team wins. I would trade our bUrst in a heart beat if it meant more survivability. PTs are more squishy than cloth wearers and that's a huge problem ED means nothing... Sure its a heal2full... But that's irrelevant, cos after you heal to full, you'll still be in cc lock, and you're still getting nuked to oblivion, and you still can't do any damage... All it buys you is a couple of GCDs of doing nothing... And I know I'm right, and that you're wrong... Why? Not just because I've tried it, but also because there are no juggs in the top ranks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Quick question whats a good target for Crit on AP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Quick question whats a good target for Crit on AP? No crit rating, full power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxeDragoneth Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) 1) Cant argue with your #1. I would say most of the PT's on top of the leaderboard got there in AP spec. Why do I think that? Damage kills people, which wins matches. Tanks don't do as much damage, so have less of an impact on the outcome of a match. I'd like to hear Rahc's perspective on this, but when I rolled tank spec I always felt hostage to my team's draw on dps. Even if I protected my rear off it felt like the team with higher dps numbers usually came out on top. Playing a support class in solos will always put you at the mercy of the dps draw. Healers have it harder than tanks, I feel. More often than not, however, it comes down to who the better tank is when you have dps close in skill; this is even more true for games with heals. Faster guardswaps cause more likelihood of wins. Take charge of your team and demand that they target x/y off guard and, if they follow, it will be you vs the other tank for who can carry their team to victory. PT tank actually has the most damage potential right now because they dumbed the class down to where you can swap guard and cleave without needing to re-target an enemy. That split second is keen. It's a stupidly easy spec to play right now in pure tank, dps, or a hybrid set of gear. It's almost not fun anymore because all you face are other PT tanks. Edited May 15, 2015 by AxeDragoneth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derzelaz Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I would trade our bUrst in a heart beat if it meant more survivability. Same here. I really really really liked how VG/PTs were before 3.0. Assaultt Specialist was a more burst oriented spec, BUT it didn't really solely on a single ability that you had to build stacks to use. And also, most important survival talent, Adrenaline Fueled, 30% dmg reduction while Adrenaline Rush was up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Same here. I really really really liked how VG/PTs were before 3.0. Assaultt Specialist was a more burst oriented spec, BUT it didn't really solely on a single ability that you had to build stacks to use. And also, most important survival talent, Adrenaline Fueled, 30% dmg reduction while Adrenaline Rush was up. If that is true then Pyro 3.0 should have more survivabilty than AP since AR was reduced a whole 60s. But is not true in most of the cases. Pre-3.0 Pyro was just not focused in Arenas, nobody cared cause the burst was balanced. Edited May 15, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterflyBullet Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) After a bit more experience playing the AP PT, and after realising that I got a bit heated/emotionally motivated in my last post (thus causing my objectivity to suffer) I feel I must moderate my message somewhat. Basically last night I got omgwtfbbqfacestomped by sins in a wz, 1 v 1. Twice. It was soul crushingly embarrassing actually. Both times they were at half health, I got first shot in, and they burned me down in a few GCDs... Now, I admit I played badly, and whatever, but, seriously?... No class should go down that easily imo... Sure I could have kited a bit more, but I think the result would have been largely the same. I must admit it did prompt me to dust off my juggernaut, and has discouraged me from completing the levelling process on my PT for the moment (was at 55). At least my juggernaut was always hard to kill in a 1v1 (though it has suffered terribly from "focused and out" in arena). Edited May 15, 2015 by ButterflyBullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) If that is true then Pyro 3.0 should have more survivabilty than AP since AR was reduced a whole 60s. But is not true in most of the cases. Pre-3.0 Pyro was just not focused in Arenas, nobody cared cause the burst was balanced. lolwut. Pyro in 2.10 had better survivability because it also had degauss which after buffed AR is one of the strongest VG DcDs available, at least in terms of negating a focus, and it had that in conjunction with buffed AR. It's also worth noting that the pre-3.0 meta was far more forgiving than the post 3.0 meta in terms of survivability. Also buffed AR pre 3.0 was superior to it's current implementation as pre 3.0 a VG under fire could push their AR CD to sub 1 min, while currently it sits at 2 mins. Edited May 15, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) lolwut. Pyro in 2.10 had better survivability because it also had degauss which after buffed AR is one of the strongest VG DcDs available, at least in terms of negating a focus, and it had that in conjunction with buffed AR. It's also worth noting that the pre-3.0 meta was far more forgiving than the post 3.0 meta in terms of survivability. Also buffed AR pre 3.0 was superior to it's current implementation as pre 3.0 a VG under fire could push their AR CD to sub 1 min, while currently it sits at 2 mins. You are right about Degaus, but if Pyro was focused in Arenas was dying as fast as 3.0 AP, as far as I can remember though nobody cared. It was known to be 'squishy' but, not a major threat. In that context, 3.0 AP has the survivability of it's predecessor but also the Sword of Damocles of OP burst. Edited May 15, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxtwofivexx Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 I have played a lot of solo ranked lately and I definitely agree how this class can be focused down pretty easily. It's kind of frustrating sometimes, but coming from playing a sniper in solo ranked it is 100x better lol. I still get really great games on this class and really enjoy what the class has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Spec is more than fine in pvp. Amazing burst, amazing mobility and good defensive capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locksley Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Well I jut started ranked on my pt ap, my gear is full pvp gear with reaver main/off,belt,bracers and ear piece. Yes its all augmented. Well out of 11 games ive won two, focused first every single time, stun locked and dead. Then team mates I use that term loosely say LTP or why you only doing 10k dps... I say back what do I do if im stun locked and cant use any abilities then im pushing up daisies. Its funny that the abuse comes from guys that hide, I mean play a cloaker class, I was being whaled on in one match and the op stayed cloaked watching on.... then he has the nerve to call me a nab. So I put it out there what am I meant to do if 4 focus me and im stun locked and cant use my abilities? im sure all these guys that say LTP must have the answer. Edited May 25, 2015 by Locksley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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