WedgeFan Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Replace community with public, and then ask yourself, should all of the public be punished for individuals within that public? I'd still like know where anyone, other than the community members involved, has been punished. Nowhere did I read that you (specifally you, since you are speaking for me) were going to be banned for what they did. Banning you would be punishement. What Eric did (in my opinion) was to set down some new ground rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 It's not a straw man when it is an exercise in showing through a figure of speech that the basis of the argument is flawed . You realize you guys sitting here getting onto them for their reaction to what happened is, in itself, harassment of them, yes? Just thought I'd point out the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henge_Wolf Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Wait a minute, someone actually harassed one of the devs, like, IRL? I don't see any reason to punish the community for that. It's not like everyone was in on it or something. That said, they have every right to be angry about it, I mean that is SO FAR over the line it's literally not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 What I also think that a lot of devs fail to realize, is that we are PAYING them! We are the reason they have a job, and a product that generates income. Without the paying customers, there would be no SWTOR, and Bioware Austin. Are there crazy customers, rabid about the franchise? Sure, but that is not an excuse to punish all your paying customers, and in fact when you do start disregarding and threating all your customers, you won't have them for long. If a customer came in to my place of work and started harassing me and my family and tried to tell me it was OK because they paid me, I would throw them the **** out on their ***. And then probably call the cops on them. Being a customer does not give you the right to be a douchebag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharySosa Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Wait a minute, someone actually harassed one of the devs, like, IRL? I don't see any reason to punish the community for that. It's not like everyone was in on it or something. That said, they have every right to be angry about it, I mean that is SO FAR over the line it's literally not even funny. I thought it was funny. Someone actually harassing someone IRL over an online game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'd still like know where anyone, other than the community members involved, has been punished. Nowhere did I read that you (specifally you, since you are speaking for me) were going to be banned for what they did. Banning you would be punishement. What Eric did (in my opinion) was to set down some new ground rules. Ground rules that none of us have any control over, and therefor shouldn't have been included in. How are you going to stop some ***-hat from doing some crappy thing to a dev? They will do it regardless of what you or I want. AND THEREFOR we ultimately will be the ones being punished as a result. The problem with drawing a line in the sand is that It now tempts those bad members to cross it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 WRONG. THIS COMMUNITY did NOT HARRAS John's family, and that's the point. MEMBERS of this community did, but those members DO NOT REPRESENT THE ENTIRETY OF THE COMMUNITY. And by throwing the baby out with the bathwater, you end up alienating a lot of people who otherwise would have had your back in this instance. Its like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. What the **** is wrong with some of you people????? He NEVER SAID THE ENTIRE MOTHER ******* COMMUNITY! He said "IF THE COMMUNITY", meaning ANYONE IN IT, NOT EVERYONE, ANYONE THAT IS A PART OF IT!!! What the hell is with some of you thinking that just because a term is used the COULD include you, you automatically assume it DOES include you? It doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 It's not a straw man when it is an exercise in showing through a figure of speech that the basis of the argument is flawed . Please read the part about tort law and civil liability. You may have missed the edit. You argument ignores this. Thus you comparison of a customer base to the general public is an apples to oranges comparison... Period... Fact....dead stop...sorry that how civil liability works conflicts with your preferred view of this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Wait a minute, someone actually harassed one of the devs, like, IRL? I don't see any reason to punish the community for that. It's not like everyone was in on it or something. That said, they have every right to be angry about it, I mean that is SO FAR over the line it's literally not even funny. Short version: Dev came to the forums, posted changes about marauders and sentinels. People got butthurt, took it to social media. Harassed the dev and the dev's family. Eric came on to the forum and said "If that happens again, we'll just stop talking to you guys" People are now butthurt that he said that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarekCyphus Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Hey look at the title...COMMUNITY MANAGER responded. He is not a Dev. Eric is the Community Manager here...John a Dev. It is Eric's JOB to communicate..John, as we see in Eric's post, does not have to. At best your link proves nothing at worst (for your point) it proves mine right. Except you said: The actual Devs ARE doing us a favor. In No other MMO which I play/have played do have the devs been as communicative about their vision for the game, classes etc. It is the Community team whose Job it is to communicate....not the Devs. This is industry standard. You may not like it but it is what it is. Then there's what's below. So, again. Wasn't hard to find, and WoW has over a half a dozen CMs that ROUTINELY communicate the Development Team's intentions. So Blizzard's devs REALLY don't have to do squat...BUT THEY DO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'll say what I've said in the other threads on this: your subscription does not require the developers to post design philosophy on a public forum. You aren't entitled to it. The fact they do it is good will on BioWare's part. Now, if the process of doing that actively puts the developers in harm's way, then they simply won't do it. Asking them to put themselves and their family in a position to get harassed and threatened is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Wait a minute, someone actually harassed one of the devs, like, IRL? I don't see any reason to punish the community for that. It's not like everyone was in on it or something. That said, they have every right to be angry about it, I mean that is SO FAR over the line it's literally not even funny. They also went after his family. If EA doesn't take firm action A) the employee can sue them. B) they will find it nearly impossible to hire competent employees in the future. Welcome to corporate America and civil liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) What the **** is wrong with some of you people????? He NEVER SAID THE ENTIRE MOTHER ******* COMMUNITY! He said "IF THE COMMUNITY", meaning ANYONE IN IT, NOT EVERYONE, ANYONE THAT IS A PART OF IT!!! What the hell is with some of you thinking that just because a term is used the COULD include you, you automatically assume it DOES include you? It doesn't. EVERYONE in the community is AFFECTED by the CONSEQUENCE of the dev decisions, therefor the "Whole Community" term is indeed correct. Edited May 8, 2015 by Holocron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Short version: Dev came to the forums, makes inflammatory post about marauders and sentinels. People got butthurt, for good reason. "A few" took it to social media. Harassed the dev and the dev's family. Eric came on to the forum and said "If that happens again, you all will suffer due to the actions of a few" People are now butthurt that he said that, too. For good reason. Fixed. disclaimer - that's my version Edited May 8, 2015 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Replace community with public, and then ask yourself, should all of the public be punished for individuals within that public? That's not how it works. We have laws that govern the public that I'm restricted by, even though I've never taken part in anything that brought about those laws to begin with. I've never dealt drugs, but there are laws against that. I've never murdered anyone, but there are laws against that. I drank a ton while underage...I contributed to the laws that punish that. See how that works? I'm bound by a ton of laws that I have no part of, but because some people in the public have been, there have been policy changes that impact me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Except you said: Then there's what's below. So, again. Wasn't hard to find, and WoW has over a half a dozen CMs that ROUTINELY communicate the Development Team's intentions. So Blizzard's devs REALLY don't have to do squat...BUT THEY DO. Yeah please read what I said. I said devs don't have to...the community team does. A community team member responded to that post. So you posted a link that proved my statement. I don't understand your point unless you simply do not understand the difference between a Community Manager (like Eric here) and a Dev. Edited May 8, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 That's one way to sugarcoat a story to fit your agenda. Well, it's all in the delivery, right? You're more than welcome to provide your own summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Well, it's all in the delivery, right? You're more than welcome to provide your own summary. I did, i fixed yours for ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WedgeFan Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Ground rules that none of us have any control over, and therefor shouldn't have been included in. How are you going to stop some ***-hat from doing some crappy thing to a dev? They will do it regardless of what you or I want. AND THEREFOR we ultimately will be the ones being punished as a result. The problem with drawing a line in the sand is that It now tempts those bad members to cross it. There's a lot in this world you don't have control over. If some internet troll ruins it for the rest of us and they stop posting to us.....and that really upsets you..... I'm pretty sure that line in the sand (as you put it) is quite wide. The example that lead to all this is an extreme. The day to day insults that occur on this forum will continue with no punishment of the communtiy at large. Edited May 8, 2015 by WedgeFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarekCyphus Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Well, it's all in the delivery, right? You're more than welcome to provide your own summary. Then here's mine: People really suck on the Interwebs.™ #FirstWorldProblems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 EVERYONE in the community is AFFECTED by the CONSEQUENCE of the dev decisions, therefor the "Whole Community" term is indeed correct. Yeah, again, if a few members of society go rogue, the masses will be faced with monumental change. Look at 9/11...prior to 9/11, I could walk past the one sleeping guard at the baggage check point...now days, I'd be thrown in jail pending background checks on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 What the **** is wrong with some of you people????? He NEVER SAID THE ENTIRE MOTHER ******* COMMUNITY! He said "IF THE COMMUNITY", meaning ANYONE IN IT, NOT EVERYONE, ANYONE THAT IS A PART OF IT!!! What the hell is with some of you thinking that just because a term is used the COULD include you, you automatically assume it DOES include you? It doesn't. Ah yes, I love these discussions where we have to argue who is represented. From the context of Eric's post, its pretty damn obvious its referring to members of the community, not the entirety as a whole. Context and common sense people. Use it. Threatening someone's family is scum activity. Its a damn video game. Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Fixed. Yea, sure, fixed, right. You really expect the devs or anyone to want to come talk to the community when something like this is a possible outcome? Eric wasn't threatening, he was stating a fact. This type of thing will make the devs not want to post here out of fear. Your point of view is so incredibly selfish. This poor guy just had his family threatened and all you can think about is "MEMEMEMEME". Edited May 8, 2015 by Icebergy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I love how none of the people attacking the Devs on this one acknowledged my point about how they're only proving the Devs right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) I did, i fixed yours for ya! Haha. I see that. Dev came to the forums, makes inflammatory post about marauders and sentinels. People got butthurt, for good reason. "A few" took it to social media. Harassed the dev and the dev's family. Eric came on to the forum and said "If that happens again, you all will suffer due to the actions of a few" People are now butthurt that he said that, too. For good reason. Honestly, I actually kept any judgements over whether or not the people were justified in being butthurt about it, that's really the only difference between your summary and mine. And it's a matter of opinion whether or not the initial statements were a) inflammatory or b) whether the players had good reason to get butthurt over it. I like to think my version was less judgemental p.s. He didn't say "you will all suffer due to the actions of a few." My paraphrasing was far more accurate. You can read what he said as "you will all suffer due to the actions of a few" all you want, but what he actually said was "we'll stop talking". Edited May 8, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts