Taking Down a Credit Selling Ring

[clearsighted]

300 CC for all the non-credit sellers!

 

Always someone begging for a freebie on this forum. Slot machines compensation, collectors edition vendor rewards, security key vendors rewards, rewards for people that didn't cheat the hard mode, rewards for not buying credits.

 

I get you were probably trying to be ironic, but there were probably 10 posts after this one (in the 13+ pages I didn't read) that weren't. It's so sad.

[Dreadicus]

I must admit I'm starting to have some faith again in Bio/EM at the moment. December was a fiasco and I think they know that now and are 'on it' so to speak. Hats off on cracking the 'Cartel' (at least for the moment).

 

Someone mentioned earlier a guesstimate about it being roughly $27,000 in real cash they lost with 9 bil credits down the drain.

 

I'd also mention that these credit sellers also likely had actual subscription accounts to be able to 'hold' so much money - and likely had purchased the expansion on numerous ones so they could farm the 'good' chests in SOR. So that means, if they plan to continue (I'm sure they will to some extent) - they will also have to subscribe - and purchase SOR again on many accounts. That just tops off that 27k estimate as a good bit higher I'd think - along with time they will need to build up their countless hordes of box openers, spammers and whatnot. (GOOD)

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I do hope that all those credit farming "businesses", "just lay down and die" as HK would say. I hope they feel completely humiliated for all their "hard work" now into dust in the wind.

 

Actually on fleet on JC, they are spamming even more as if to say screw you to BW

[Bdachel]

Thank you!

 

To quote Emperor Palpatine: "Do not hesitate and show no mercy."

[Ghisallo]

Actually on fleet on JC, they are spamming even more as if to say screw you to BW

 

well it doesn't take much to get to fleet to spam. I wouldn't be surprised if this is an "okay lets sell our credits ASAP before our in game credit 'banks' get pinched in one fell swoop."

 

They can always start again but loosing BILLIONs of credits before sale is a pretty big loss for these outfits.

[alloganex]

So with those accounts missing, they're at it again. It's nice to have room to ignore again,but seriously? Can't you just sue the owners of the sites related? It was peaceful for five minutes in the game, and then they blew it again.

[alloganex]

Why not at least make fleet a level 10 and higher location? They tend to use the bare minimum level of 7 to get there.

[The_Wulff]

If they raised the fleet to 10 the spammers would raise their toons 3 more levels.

 

As per suing the gold sellers that would work except they operate from other countries. If the government of that country doesn't consider their actions illegal there is little that can be done.

 

All that can be done is we report funny actions we see, BioWare keeps collating data and banning as the data reaches the real money and accounts.

[DarthOvertone]

Nine Billion? That's a lot of Yavin chest farming.

[midianlord]

Start going after buyers, assuming you can consistently find them.

 

It may be the sellers/advertisers who initiate, but it's the buyers who perpetuate.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Start going after buyers, assuming you can consistently find them.

 

It may be the sellers/advertisers who initiate, but it's the buyers who perpetuate.

 

The problem is that like other MMOs the prices on GTN are so high, that some people feel the need to buy credits to purchase the things they want. That is more of a problem to control, or change then to simply go after credit farmers and buyers.

 

Rather then spend the money on Cartel items to sell for creds, some people see it as easier and cheaper to buy from credit farmers. And until you knock down demand somehow, someone will always be on the supply side. I mean the easy solution which would more then likely kill the credit farmers, is to offer credits for sale in BW's own store.

Edited May 8, 2015 by lightSaberAddiCt

[Anaesha]

The problem is that like other MMOs the prices on GTN are so high, that some people feel the need to buy credits to purchase the things they want. That is more of a problem to control, or change then to simply go after credit farmers and buyers.

 

Rather then spend the money on Cartel items to sell for creds, some people see it as easier and cheaper to buy from credit farmers. And until you knock down demand somehow, someone will always be on the supply side. I mean the easy solution which would more then likely kill the credit farmers, is to offer credits for sale in BW's own store.

 

BW could also try beating them at their own game and sell Credits for RL cash. Since BW doesn't have to work to amass the credits they can sell more credits for less money which would make buying from the gold sellers less worthwhile.

[midianlord]

The problem is that like other MMOs the prices on GTN are so high, that some people feel the need to buy credits to purchase the things they want. That is more of a problem to control, or change then to simply go after credit farmers and buyers.

 

Rather then spend the money on Cartel items to sell for creds, some people see it as easier and cheaper to buy from credit farmers. And until you knock down demand somehow, someone will always be on the supply side. I mean the easy solution which would more then likely kill the credit farmers, is to offer credits for sale in BW's own store.

 

PLEX in EVE Online, C.R.E.D.D. in Wildstar, I'm sure there are others.

 

Proven to work.

 

Oh, and in EVE, we can do what's called a "suicide-gank" of farmers/botters (suicidal in "high security" space, at least)...So....A little player-justice we can haz against all those level 7 Bounty Hunters hanging out by the GTN mail-kiosk and /yelling?

 

I've been playing EVE for almost seven years, and I can't remember the last time I saw RMT-spam in the four major trade hubs, or any of the secondary ones.

Edited May 8, 2015 by midianlord

[Ghisallo]

So with those accounts missing, they're at it again. It's nice to have room to ignore again,but seriously? Can't you just sue the owners of the sites related? It was peaceful for five minutes in the game, and then they blew it again.

 

Goodluck being an NA/EU centric company and then sue incorporated in Hong Kong and Singapore.

[Ghisallo]

The problem is that like other MMOs the prices on GTN are so high, that some people feel the need to buy credits to purchase the things they want. That is more of a problem to control, or change then to simply go after credit farmers and buyers.

 

Rather then spend the money on Cartel items to sell for creds, some people see it as easier and cheaper to buy from credit farmers. And until you knock down demand somehow, someone will always be on the supply side. I mean the easy solution which would more then likely kill the credit farmers, is to offer credits for sale in BW's own store.

 

Well the problem is this...BW has gotten rid of the plat sinks...so GTN price are crazy for those who can't or won't but off the cartel market to make credits. As such inflation is crazy.

 

BW selling credits WILL NOT correct this because they can't possibly undercut the sellers and all this would do is make the situation worse because it will simply make the buying of credits seem acceptable. The need to take credits out of the economy.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Anaesha]

Well the problem is this...BW has gotten rid of the plat sinks...so GTN price are crazy for those who can't or won't but off the cartel market to make credits. As such inflation is crazy.

 

BW selling credits WILL NOT correct this because they can't possibly undercut the sellers and all this would do is make the situation worse

 

I don't see how your reasoning makes sense. The gold sellers have to amass those credits through farming and GTN sales where as BW only has to use GM commands to generate the credits meaning they can charge less for more.

[Ghisallo]

I don't see how your reasoning makes sense. The gold sellers have to amass those credits through farming and GTN sales where as BW only has to use GM commands to generate the credits meaning they can charge less for more.

 

Bioware selling credits will add more credits into the economy making inflation WORSE. If you make inflation worse then it becomes a price war between the credit sellers and the devs. This doesn't fix the underlying issue. All that would happen is that BW would also make money off of credit selling and arguably this would make the situation WORSE because BW selling credits woulkd make it "okay." So if they beat the LOW price of the credit sellers currently... inflation would get worse... then more people would feel they HAVE to buy credits and think it was "okay" because heck BW is selling them. Thus more people WOULD absolutely buy credits. The economy would go sideways.

 

Dealing with credit sellers and their customers is like dealing with rl crime. it's just about minimizing it as much as possible, you will never eliminate it...period.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Anaesha]

Bioware selling credits will add more credits into the economy making inflation WORSE. If you make inflation worse then it becomes a price war between the credit sellers and the devs. This doesn't fix the underlying issue. All that would happen is that BW would also make money off of credit selling and arguably this would make the situation WORSE because BW selling credits woulkd make it "okay." So if they beat the LOW price of the credit sellers currently... inflation would get worse... then more people would feel they HAVE to buy credits and think it was "okay" because heck BW is selling them. Thus more people WOULD absolutely buy credits. The economy would go sideways.

 

Dealing with credit sellers and their customers is like dealing with rl crime. it's just about minimizing it as much as possible, you will never eliminate it...period.

 

That's what credit sinks are for and BW seems to be good at making those ""cough" slot machines "cough"

[AdrianDmitruk]

PLEX in EVE Online, C.R.E.D.D. in Wildstar, I'm sure there are others.

 

Proven to work.

 

Oh, and in EVE, we can do what's called a "suicide-gank" of farmers/botters (suicidal in "high security" space, at least)...So....A little player-justice we can haz against all those level 7 Bounty Hunters hanging out by the GTN mail-kiosk and /yelling?

 

I've been playing EVE for almost seven years, and I can't remember the last time I saw RMT-spam in the four major trade hubs, or any of the secondary ones.

 

The critical difference between EVE Online and this game that you're missing is that, in EVE online, the use of the spam reporting tool has immediate benefits to the player:

 

1) It immediately auto-ignores

2) It's immediately accessible; if you right click the spammer, "REPORT ISK SPAMMER" is right there, every time and not in a submenu

3) It immediately deletes all messages from the spammer from your client's chat, so you can see other stuff in local

 

I was there when the spam reporting was improved like that. That patch was after PLEX was introduced to the game, shortly after I first started playing in fact so I remember it well. The introduction of those QoL features to the reporting tool made reporting have immediate benefits to the player as well as to the game (namely the actual removal of spam from the client, that is important and improves the QoL of chat immensely). And RMT spam fell like a rock immediately following the patch and was practically exterminated by the community within a week.

 

When I explained how weak the spam reporting tool in SWTOR is to the game designers hanging out at the Community Cantina last year, their reaction was a mixture of cluelessness and an aghast look on their face. "You mean we don't already have that?"

 

No, we don't. But it would be incredibly useful.

[Ghisallo]

That's what credit sinks are for and BW seems to be good at making those ""cough" slot machines "cough"

 

And a minority of people used those things once they got nerfed. This game has the LEAST credit sinks I have ever seen in 16 years of MMO playing. They got rid of leveling abilities...with the costume designer I don't think I will will ever have to spend credits since I have, imo, "the look". The amount of credits I can accumulate since I have nothing to spend it on is retarded.

 

I have gone from thinking 1 million credits made me rich to almost 20 million credits across my toons ins what 6 months? That is stupid as all hell and BW selling credits would make that worse because my wife and I make 200k a year combined, have no kids and we both have bonafide pensions AND 401ks. I would be daddy warbucks in this game if BW sold credits and still I manage to see this is a bad idea.

 

Sorry the people who don't see this are either naive OR are simply being disingenuous and just want a "legitimate" path to buying credits...period and don't care about the impact.

 

My 2 credits.

[TitusOfTides]

If I get paid to do it, I am willing to go "Deep Cover" on the credit rings.

 

I can infiltrate their ranks, become one of them, gain their trust...

 

I'll have to serve some prison time before they trust me though, so they know I'm not a cop (or mod in this case). I'll be Leo DiCaprio in The Departed, minus dying in an elevator.

 

I can picture it now:

I walk into their base of operations Matrix style, whip out some Mac 10s and go "NI HAO MUTHA F***AS!"

Edited May 8, 2015 by TitusOfTides

[midianlord]

The critical difference between EVE Online and this game that you're missing is that, in EVE online, the use of the spam reporting tool has immediate benefits to the player:

 

1) It immediately auto-ignores

2) It's immediately accessible; if you right click the spammer, "REPORT ISK SPAMMER" is right there, every time and not in a submenu

3) It immediately deletes all messages from the spammer from your client's chat, so you can see other stuff in local

 

I was there when the spam reporting was improved like that. That patch was after PLEX was introduced to the game, shortly after I first started playing in fact so I remember it well. The introduction of those QoL features to the reporting tool made reporting have immediate benefits to the player as well as to the game (namely the actual removal of spam from the client, that is important and improves the QoL of chat immensely). And RMT spam fell like a rock immediately following the patch and was practically exterminated by the community within a week.

 

When I explained how weak the spam reporting tool in SWTOR is to the game designers hanging out at the Community Cantina last year, their reaction was a mixture of cluelessness and an aghast look on their face. "You mean we don't already have that?"

 

No, we don't. But it would be incredibly useful.

 

I've so rarely had to use the report feature in EVE-O, I honestly can't remember when it was re-tooled....Might even have been before my time? It all becomes a blur....

 

But hey, that's a good thing, innit?

 

E:

 

I still think that allowing suicide-ganking in TOR on the Fleets for say...a week...would be freaking hilarious, though.

 

Don't knock "accidentally'ing" a mining-barge until you've tried it

Edited May 8, 2015 by midianlord

[idnewton]

This is why BW doesn't police gen chat and insta-ban/mute spammers. For one thing they don't have the manpower, but also, by letting the spammers log on and off they can track down where the money is.

 

The solution to defeating gold spammers is not to strike the spammers. The spammers are pawn characters, they're leveled until they can fill up chat, they have nothing on them. What matters are the characters where the sites' creds are stored. Take that out, and there's nothing to advertise.

 

The fact that BW busted a ring does not mean the spam will simply stop; it means they took out a site or two. More importantly, though, they proved that they're capable of shutting down spammers. If they're persistent, it's only a matter of time.

[MbaxterBeau]

Good job Mr. Musco! I have been reporting and ignoring each one. I will continue.

[AdrianDmitruk]

I've so rarely had to use the report feature in EVE-O, I honestly can't remember when it was re-tooled....Might even have been before my time? It all becomes a blur....

 

But hey, that's a good thing, innit?

 

E:

 

I still think that allowing suicide-ganking in TOR on the Fleets for say...a week...would be freaking hilarious, though.

 

Don't knock "accidentally'ing" a mining-barge until you've tried it

 

Yeah I was there for the before-and-after of EVE's current spam report implementation. By the time I left to play SWTOR full time, I used it about once every 5 months. The community rejoiced at its implementation with something I guess you might call "spamageddon" (though that's my word for it, modeled after Hulkageddon), and spam nosedived about 90% overnight and exponentially decayed after that to the point where people who came into the game after that barely even know the function exists.

 

And yes, suicide ganking is fun! You don't know how often I've found myself wishing I could force choke the spammers through the computer screen and otherwise beat the hell out of them with my Sith Juggernaut. Bioware would need an army of cleanup droids to scour all the blood splatters and crushed bone powder from the GTN quadrant lol.

Edited May 8, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk