BrianDavion Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 a guildy of mine had read the Revan book just recently and thus did a absolute comparison of this to Nethema he notes that on Nethema the Emperor consumed eveything, there wasn't even droids left. and droids where left on Ziost. that combined with a lack of any referance to holes in the force etc makes me suspect Ziost may be by comparison imperfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadess Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 That is something that bugged be about the post-cine convo... but I suppose you could rationalize it away as having difficult dealing with the scale of what happened? As for Ziost vs Nathema... My personal theory is that this is what would have happened everywhere had the Knight failed to stop the Emperor throughout Act 3. Glad to see there's some basis for that, so maybe he's going for it world by world, because he doesn't have the support structure anymore to do it all in one go anymore? And let me just say: Holy hell, Bioware, major kudos for this one. Not really for the cinematic, there's only so much you can do given the engine, but stepping onto Ziost afterwards, especially if you had just done the Ziost story, is haunting. Only a few droids to fight, no NPC's aside from a few droids, none of the life on it that was everywhere before, and all of the daily quests are just about trying to figure out... what the hell happened. It can be very hard to tell a story with almost no dialog... but the daily quests on Ziost do more to show the power of the Emperor and the stakes we're dealing with far, far more than a thousand speeches. Just superb. I agree with this sentiment. And I too cried when I first saw it... Especially since I do try to look for the good and see there might be hope... And then to see it all taken away in one go? Bioware that was amazing. *claps* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSVEindhoven Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 And let me just say: Holy hell, Bioware, major kudos for this one. Not really for the cinematic, there's only so much you can do given the engine, but stepping onto Ziost afterwards, especially if you had just done the Ziost story, is haunting. Only a few droids to fight, no NPC's aside from a few droids, none of the life on it that was everywhere before, and all of the daily quests are just about trying to figure out... what the hell happened. It can be very hard to tell a story with almost no dialog... but the daily quests on Ziost do more to show the power of the Emperor and the stakes we're dealing with far, far more than a thousand speeches. Just superb. I agree totally with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branosaros Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'm surprised that they didn't show your character having a psychological break down. I mean, some people would shrug it off, but you essentially witness the destruction of an entire planet and all it's inhabitants. I sorta expected my agent to fall to his knees at the sight of it. Well, I for one think playing the Empire is more interesting, anyway. It's not fun being in the Republic for me, there's no real social turmoil like playing Light Side Empire. Light Side Empire is a LOT more interesting than Light Side Republic... that's just my opinion, any-who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think Jedi Knights would take it the hardest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I think Jedi Knights would take it the hardest... I dunno, Ziost was a pretty major world imp side, it's very possiable imperial characters would have just lost someone(s) they knew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I dunno, Ziost was a pretty major world imp side, it's very possiable imperial characters would have just lost someone(s) they knew True, true. But the JK spent their entire life trying to stop the Emperor from doing this very same thing. The wound goes beyond the loss of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrrant Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 True, true. But the JK spent their entire life trying to stop the Emperor from doing this very same thing. The wound goes beyond the loss of life. Yeah, the Knight is basically the main class for this, as far as I'm concerned. Its their first loss to Vitiate since the end of Act 2, after... at least 5 direct victories over him, most of those victories to prevent... exactly this from happening. On top of the huge loss of life... it has to feel like a punch to the gut that the Knight surely thought they had won once again... only to be shown how false that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 That is something that bugged be about the post-cine convo... but I suppose you could rationalize it away as having difficult dealing with the scale of what happened? As for Ziost vs Nathema... My personal theory is that this is what would have happened everywhere had the Knight failed to stop the Emperor throughout Act 3. Glad to see there's some basis for that, so maybe he's going for it world by world, because he doesn't have the support structure anymore to do it all in one go anymore? And let me just say: Holy hell, Bioware, major kudos for this one. Not really for the cinematic, there's only so much you can do given the engine, but stepping onto Ziost afterwards, especially if you had just done the Ziost story, is haunting. Only a few droids to fight, no NPC's aside from a few droids, none of the life on it that was everywhere before, and all of the daily quests are just about trying to figure out... what the hell happened. It can be very hard to tell a story with almost no dialog... but the daily quests on Ziost do more to show the power of the Emperor and the stakes we're dealing with far, far more than a thousand speeches. Just superb. The description of what happened to Nathema in Revan is just chilling though. Darth Nyriss: "But in the aftermath of the war—after our defeat at the hands of the Republic and our flight to escape the massacre of our people by the Jedi—he emerged from his solitude to call a great council of all the Sith Lords who remained. He dominated their minds, crushed their resistance. He turned them into slaves to his will, forcing them to participate in the most complex ritual of Sith sorcery ever attempted. Calling on the dark side, Lord Vitiate devoured them. He fed on their power, absorbing it into himself, utterly obliterating all traces of his victims. But the ritual was not confined to the doomed Sith Lords. They were but the eye of the storm; the center of a vortex that spread across the entire planet. Every man, woman, and child on Nathema died that day. Every beast, bird, and fish; all the insects and plants; every living being touched by the Force was consumed. When the ritual ended, Nathema was no longer a world. It was a husk sucked dry. Lord Vitiate sacrificed millions, stealing their life force to make himself immortal. Their deaths also made him stronger than any Sith who had come before, and he ceased to be known as Lord Vitiate. On that day, the Emperor was truly born." "You feel the chill of the Void. The Force is energy; it gives heat to our emotions and our minds. But here it has been stripped away." Wookiepedia: The act also destroyed almost all technology on the planet, overloading the circuits of droids and wiping out their memory cores. The rite leeched color, sound, and heat from reality itself, leaving Nathema a brown, barren and lifeless planet upon which the absence of the Force could cause anything alive on its surface—especially Force-sensitives—to die if they stayed there long enough. So this seems more like a cross between Darth Nihilius's Force Drain of Katarr or Kaan's thoughtbomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelieCZ Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) If the Ziost is now like Nathema: 1. How can we use the Force there? 2. How can creatures like Monolithes live there? 3. How the droids can work there? As I remeber, after Vitiate's ritual whole planet Nathema was "empty" - no life, even no Force. Most likely like Nathema. 1. Gameplay mechanics. You wouldn't want to fight the WB as a melee Sage, now would you? 2. IIRC they're the spawns of Vitiate's Sith alchemy, made to withstand his murderblast. 3. Most technology on Nathema was destroyed, not all. There's very few of the droids after all. (and I also believe they were send there as probes after Ziost was destroyed and simply crashed on the surface) Edited May 6, 2015 by SteelieCZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terro_Fett Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Yeah, the Knight is basically the main class for this, as far as I'm concerned. Its their first loss to Vitiate since the end of Act 2, after... at least 5 direct victories over him, most of those victories to prevent... exactly this from happening. On top of the huge loss of life... it has to feel like a punch to the gut that the Knight surely thought they had won once again... only to be shown how false that was. After playing through this on most of the classes now. I can agree that this arc really does fit best with either the Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior. Those two have by-far the most compelling reasons to be there. Both the Sith Warrior and JK really can view the Rishi through to Ziost story arc to be their act 4 in a lot of ways since it feels almost like a direct continuation of their individual class stories. Edited May 6, 2015 by Terro_Fett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varium Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'm so glad they had something like this. Before this expansion I was hoping they would have something dramatic like this, and it's so nice for them do it. What comes to the Theron and Lana not reacting strongly, people usually when something major disaster happens and they are interviewed they seem fine, that's because they are in shock and haven't yet fully registered what has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWUSS Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'd be interested to know what sort of effect his abilities have on the SW and possibly the SI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divinecynic Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 You know I think I like Ziost all the more because it is such a rare thing to get in a video game. How often to do we get a loss? The pc does all they can and Vitiate still wins. Great emotional impact and build for the next section of the story. Hell this is some of the best storytelling they have had in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWUSS Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 You know I think I like Ziost all the more because it is such a rare thing to get in a video game. How often to do we get a loss? The pc does all they can and Vitiate still wins. Great emotional impact and build for the next section of the story. Hell this is some of the best storytelling they have had in a while. In BioWare games? That sort of thing happens rather frequently. However, that's more of a "you lost the battle" rather than "you lost the war" - I don't think BioWare's ever really delivered or provided the option of the total failure of "losing the war" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 this is definatly a MAJOR loss for our characters and I applaud BW for giving it to us. I've long suspected that the storyline will be DARK DARK DARK DARK DARK when the emperor returned. and it's looking like it's gonna be the case. Ziost is looking to be our Empire strikes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfumblez Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 In BioWare games? That sort of thing happens rather frequently. However, that's more of a "you lost the battle" rather than "you lost the war" - I don't think BioWare's ever really delivered or provided the option of the total failure of "losing the war" Jade Empire actually had a way kinda like that. And Mass Effect 2's Suicide mission. And (ugh) Mass Effect 3 with low war powers or the Refusal ending. Dragon Age 2 can also be seen as a "You Fail" game ( which would explain some of the polarizing reception if we're honest). Even Baldur's Gate had that, I believe. Don't quote me on this one, though. The "Hero Loses, Villian Wins" Is rare because it's astoundingly depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkerSide Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Oh and by the way. I felt some tears coming up when I saw what was happening, I'll be honest. Don't know if that's either good or that it means I'm crazy. Oh it gets worse. At the end of the Emperor's Eye mission (one of the dailies) there is an inscription on a monument that reads "Though you leave us Your humble subjects on Ziost We know it's not forever Though you are away Your eye gazes upon us We know you see our doings Though we are alone Your lessons remain We know our considerable duty Though the distance must be great Your return is a certainty We know we will be united once more As if you were never gone" The billions of people on Ziost loved that man more than their own parents and it took him roughly 6 seconds to wipe them put. Reading this was one of my worst moments in gaming and I had to consciously keep myself from breaking down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Oh it gets worse. At the end of the Emperor's Eye mission (one of the dailies) there is an inscription on a monument that reads "Though you leave us Your humble subjects on Ziost We know it's not forever Though you are away Your eye gazes upon us We know you see our doings Though we are alone Your lessons remain We know our considerable duty Though the distance must be great Your return is a certainty We know we will be united once more As if you were never gone" The billions of people on Ziost loved that man more than their own parents and it took him roughly 6 seconds to wipe them put. Reading this was one of my worst moments in gaming and I had to consciously keep myself from breaking down. Yeah, dude brainwashed over 100 Billion sentient beings into worshiping him as their God, and is now planning on eating them along with all other life in the Galaxy. I know evil seems redundant when talking about a Darth, but HE'S EVIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkerSide Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, dude brainwashed over 100 Billion sentient beings into worshiping him as their God, and is now planning on eating them along with all other life in the Galaxy. I know evil seems redundant when talking about a Darth, but HE'S EVIL. Exactly Ironically enough, most Sith in swtor are fine, honorable people, all things considered (the war, etc). Palpatine and Nihilus are the only ones who come even close to how terrible Vitiate was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, dude brainwashed over 100 Billion sentient beings into worshiping him as their God, and is now planning on eating them along with all other life in the Galaxy. I know evil seems redundant when talking about a Darth, but HE'S EVIL. Vitiate was never a Darth. Jumped from Lord to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Vitiate was never a Darth. Jumped from Lord to God. Huh, I just assumed he was Lord Tenebrae and then Darth Vitiate. Edited May 9, 2015 by AshlaBoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 In BioWare games? That sort of thing happens rather frequently. However, that's more of a "you lost the battle" rather than "you lost the war" - I don't think BioWare's ever really delivered or provided the option of the total failure of "losing the war" true it isnt over yet but my knight who was the first and only so far to do ziost considering ive been trying to stop this very thing since chapter 3 it really felt like i had failed as a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimasterjac Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior are closely tied. Both have reason to be there. My Sith Warrior is my main - And I honestly thought we could win. I thought we could stop him, and he'd run, and we'd chase him. Then he said his final lines to me - How I would be kept alive, and I would see the destruction. And I literally got chills. I swear, it was the darkest moment I've seen in an MMO to date. Very rarely do you see so much buildup, so many things you do to thwart the bad guy, the quests start to look like you're winning, and then... Poof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Huh, I just assumed he was Lord Tenebrae and then Darth Vitiate. Nah, it goes like this: He just gets born, throws a fit and hurts mommy. Distant daddy comes and Vitiate's all "WHERE MAH CHILD SUPPART?" and Marky Rags is all "Daaayuuuum guuuurl you a Lawd naow," and then the new Lawd says "hey gais come here," and erbuddeh is all "Sure thang soul sistah," and then he's all "NOPE LEL," *om nom nom* Den he leads de Empahr to victoreh. Edited May 9, 2015 by Exosasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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