Spamming GSF, and i wish i was not.

[Vox_Mortuum]

I like space fighter games. Grew up on them.

 

This is a tragic parody of a space fighter game. It's so bad that the only way it could be worse is by intent.

 

0 ability to meaningfully customize your controls.

No mouse sensitivity, no camera controls. no ability to change or customize your crosshairs color or shape (some people see shapes and colors differently so this would be helpful)

 

Hell, just giving the camera the ability to zoom in to first person would probably help a lot of people.

 

Poorly balanced ship classes and upgrades.

 

A gun ship should not be capable of simply face tanking a full weapon energy bar AND a missile from any setup with any number of mods. Ever.

 

And then, to top it all off, it has an incredibly counter intuitive control set up. Where your weapons fire at where your mouse is pointing, rather than where your ship is pointing, up to a point. While at he same time your mouse location on the screen is your only form of steering. This means that putting your mouse over a spot you want to shoot at will very likely cause to you overshoot and miss.

 

Now maybe, just maybe, if you have a nice computer that play at 150 fps and perfect ping, this can be managed without massive rage inducing frustration. It's just a shame most casual gamers don't HAVE those things.

 

This game is borderline intentionally user unfriendly.

 

If it was worth even slightly less exp/credits/conquest points it would not ever be worth enduring.

[tunewalker]

If you had played the "on Rails" shooter that this game came out with you would have known the controls were basically the same as it was there.

 

Its more of an Arcade shooter then a "simulator"

 

For balance, yes strikes are bad we know this, the other ships (gunships included) are well balanced among each other for players that know the game and are comfortable..

 

Hint Hint... Missiles suck. Disto is on 2/3ds of the competitive ships which basically makes Missiles useless.

[Danalon]

I like space fighter games. Grew up on them.

 

This is a tragic parody of a space fighter game. It's so bad that the only way it could be worse is by intent.

 

0 ability to meaningfully customize your controls.

No mouse sensitivity, no camera controls. no ability to change or customize your crosshairs color or shape (some people see shapes and colors differently so this would be helpful)

 

Hell, just giving the camera the ability to zoom in to first person would probably help a lot of people.

 

Poorly balanced ship classes and upgrades.

 

A gun ship should not be capable of simply face tanking a full weapon energy bar AND a missile from any setup with any number of mods. Ever.

 

And then, to top it all off, it has an incredibly counter intuitive control set up. Where your weapons fire at where your mouse is pointing, rather than where your ship is pointing, up to a point. While at he same time your mouse location on the screen is your only form of steering. This means that putting your mouse over a spot you want to shoot at will very likely cause to you overshoot and miss.

 

Now maybe, just maybe, if you have a nice computer that play at 150 fps and perfect ping, this can be managed without massive rage inducing frustration. It's just a shame most casual gamers don't HAVE those things.

 

This game is borderline intentionally user unfriendly.

 

If it was worth even slightly less exp/credits/conquest points it would not ever be worth enduring.

 

 

I'll try to help with some of the problems you describe.

 

You can customize controls only by changing keybinds.

There are camera controls, you can see what keys to press in the GSF-keybind-menu.

Mouse sensitivity is a problem for a lot of players because you can't tune it down enough ingame - if you have acces to a mouse with DPI-settings then assign one of the settings to GSF and see if it helps. I can recommend to get a gaming mouse as it's not only easier to play GSF with it but also it's helpful in almost any game.

I miss customizable colors for the crosshair and especially for the indicators too, things are hard to see sometimes as a red-green colorblind.

First person view will probably not make the game easier because it reduces the field of view. Especially close things are hard to see then.

 

Balancing is always an issue in PvP environments but in this case the skill gap between players playing in the same game has more influence than balance. It's very unpleasant as a new player to run into enemies with a lot more experience who are also in a premade and have mastered ships (worst case scenario obviously).

 

If youre having problems with gunships, maybe this will help:

Don't approach a gunship from the front. Pay attention which gunship you approach - Condor/Jurgoran-type gunships have some close combat capabilites. If you're in firing range check it's debuffs to see what shield it's using. When it uses Distortion Field and trys to shoot you down outmaneuver it until the shield buff is gone. When it uses Fortress Shield then fly behind it, it can't move while the shield is active and it turns relatively slow then.

 

I found the controls very intuitive and easy to learn, compared to flight controls in some fps shooters for example. I can't help you with this point. Overshooting targets will happen less the more you fly and get practice.

 

You don't need a perfect computer to play this game. I need to turn off the bloom effect and set shaders to the lowest setting to be able to play with acceptable fps. In lost shipyards with all the dust floating around my fps sometimes drop noticeable when an ship explodes in front of me or when a gunship close to me charges it's railgun. If you have problems with low FPS you might want to think about getting a new PC.

 

Usually there aren't as many conquest points rewared for GSF. Credits depend on the level of your character. XP depends on character level and performance and is affected by bonuses.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Danalon

[Vox_Mortuum]

Oh yes, the gunship spam is because the player base only wants to spam the most balanced ships. it has nothing at all to do with the fact a gunship can 1shot just about anything, from a range half again longer than the next longest range weapon system. oh no, that certainly has nothing to do with it at all.

 

typical game. 8 or 9 enemies. 4 or 5 gunships a few bombers and the odd scout or fighter. But that has nothing to do with gunships being strong.

 

 

The "camera controls" are a joke. not a funny one either.

 

And yes, being able to go first person would help me a lot. For that matter so would the ability to fix the mouse to the center of the screen permanently, or the ability to tether the mouse to the center of the screen, so that it can't go too far out and transform into a little grey dot... on a black background full of little gray dots, gray lines. gray reticles, gray and brown asteroids, gray ships, gray particle effects. Maybe its just me, but I have a hell of a time tracking where my mouse is when it becomes a little gray dot.

 

And I haven't got money to buy a specialized mouse and a new computer just to MAYBE overcome the poor design of one minigame and MAYBE make it enjoyable.

[Ramalina]

Gunship are basically long range air defenses and bombers are point defense systems.

 

Scouts are light multirole fighters.

 

Strikes are heavy multirole fighters that are a bit obsolete.

 

In a complex combat environment you have to keep track of the air defenses if you want to fly a fighter/attack craft.

 

The gunships and bombers are both a lot less effective than SAMs or AAA in a good modern air combat simulator.

 

Controls are a bit wonky, but at least it's mouse based, you put the, "steer by gunnery cursor," system on a stick and it becomes even more of a disaster. With a mouse it's more or less manageable with practice.

 

Also worth noting that the rewards are by no means fantastic. You could just do regular PvP or PvE if GSF isn't your cup of tea.

[Archonitek]

A gun ship should not be capable of simply face tanking a full weapon energy bar AND a missile from any setup with any number of mods. Ever.

 

Well what lasers and missiles were you shooting it with? How many shots actually landed? If you could tell us your set up most of us would be happy to give you pointers in improving your game.

[OKonst]

I like space fighter games. Grew up on them.....etcetc...

 

I have only some points to make regarding your ranting:

 

1. You've obviously never played Freelancer in your youth - that game and GSF have almost identical controls which function really well if you have the guts to learn them. It's an arcade shooter, not a space-sim and never has wanted to be anything else!

 

2. You're ranting about gunships being able to "face-tank" lasers and missiles (which they won't do for long unless they have Fortress Shield up, which makes them an even easier target). Did it ever cross your mind that you probably shouldn't approach a SNIPER (!!!!) head-on when he is targeting/looking at you?

 

Oh yes, the gunship spam is because the player base only wants to spam the most balanced ships. it has nothing at all to do with the fact a gunship can 1shot just about anything...

3. If you ever really played a stock gunship, you would quickly realize that gunships miss a lot of shots if targeting high evasion targets like scouts or trying to hit targets at the outer edges of your sniper scope. Even mastered you'll still miss quite a few times.

On the other hand, there are so many unskilled gunships out there you can shoot them out of the sky in a few seconds. Just don't make it easy for them by coming at them head-on...

 

But considering that you just continue to blame your poor performance on enemies having a Quantum Computer and a Razer Gaming Mouse with 18 macroed buttons playing gunships....you should probably just quit altogether and wait for Star Citizen.

Edited April 30, 2015 by OKonst

[tommmsunb]

I'm sorry OP but you're the reason why we can't have nice things. Nothing you said was correct in your original post, you can change everything that you commented about. The only thing that you said that held any grain of truth is that the game doesn't have the ability to zoom in. That is the only premise that was correct in your original post.

 

The only thing I deem worthy to respond to because you so clearly gave up without looking at your resources available to you is your perspective on gunships and face-tanking.

 

 

This is completely and utterly false. With proper power management and being able to hit the broad-side of a barn there is not a single gunship mod in the game that can survive an entire weapon power bar.

 

 

 

Also, if you don't enjoy something, that is your prerogative, but don't be so arrogant to assume that we care.

Edited April 30, 2015 by tommmsunb

[Danalon]

I tried to give some advice and even explained that I myself have some of the exact same problems as OP (I have problems with the Indicator/Crosshair colors and my PC is a cheap 4 year old laptop). I can understand that GSF is hard to get into as a new pilot but if you post on a forum then you have two options: 1) Seek help/advice 2) Rage/whine. OP chose the latter.

 

 

 

 

You've obviously never played Freelancer in your youth - that game and GSF have almost identical controls which function really well if you have the guts to learn them. It's an arcade shooter, not a space-sim and never has wanted to be anything else!

I played Rogue Squadron on the N64. Third person view, lasers shoot where the crosshair is, ship follows the crosshair. There are some differences but overall it feels relatively similar.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Danalon

[Verain]

Oh yes, the gunship spam is because the player base only wants to spam the most balanced ships.

 

It likely has to do with you not knowing much about the game.

 

it has nothing at all to do with the fact a gunship can 1shot just about anything

 

A gunship can one-shot an unupgraded scout, if it crits (so it first has to pass the evasion check, then has to roll that 16% crit chance). Nothing else in the game can ever be one shot.

 

from a range half again longer than the next longest range weapon system. oh no, that certainly has nothing to do with it at all.

 

Consider taking advice from the forum, that has played a lot more games than you.

 

The "camera controls" are a joke. not a funny one either.

 

I have no idea why you think that. The camera can pivot to any direction you choose, including "directly at targeted enemy". That seems pretty adequate. I'd like some third person stuff for videos, but for playing, this is an area where GSF does just fine.

 

And yes, being able to go first person would help me a lot.

 

Fun fact: It absolutely would not. Not only would you lose a lot of information (such as the position of your hitbox), you would gain nothing in exchanges (the typical reason for first person is accuracy, and that wouldn't change with GSF- you still bring the reticule to the target).

 

So it would cost you a lot of information, and gain you nothing at all. The option would be nice, but it would mostly be a trap for players like you, who think it has merit when it does not.

 

For that matter so would the ability to fix the mouse to the center of the screen permanently,

 

The ability to "fix the mouse to the center of the screen" would represent a substantial change in controls, because you would need to toggle that on and off depending. You would also gain a seriously strange feature where you are happy with the reticule over the target, or for them to be in the center, but nowhere else.

 

The fact is, your ship tracks when you move the reticule. The actual correct way of doing this would be to allow the ship pitch, yaw, and roll to be controlled by analog sticks while the hat of the joystick controls the gimballing, instead of the gimbal being tied to the ship's movement. But that would basically mean that the game would be all about a HOTAS.

 

Being able to snap to target as you describe would be a pretty odd decision, and it would substantially change the way the ships fly, adding a whole layer of complexity to a game that already has a pretty steep learning curve.

 

Maybe its just me, but I have a hell of a time tracking where my mouse is when it becomes a little gray dot.

 

You are not supposed to take your mouse out of the circle. If you are doing that on purpose, stop. If you are doing that on accident, practice until you don't and get better mouse control.

 

And I haven't got money to buy a specialized mouse and a new computer just to MAYBE overcome the poor design of one minigame and MAYBE make it enjoyable.

 

Yes, we all have GSF mice, from the premium GSF store, bought with all the gold we got for rolling gunship.

 

 

If you can't keep a mouse cursor inside a giant red circle a third the size of your monitor, you don't need a new mouse, you need, like, myelin?

[Verain]

SControls are a bit wonky, but at least it's mouse based, you put the, "steer by gunnery cursor," system on a stick and it becomes even more of a disaster. With a mouse it's more or less manageable with practice.

 

Though OP didn't mention the joystick, if you could separate the axis of controlling the ship from the gimbal of the weapon, it WOULD be a substantial buff. But this control scheme pretty much requires a solid joystick to make that happen- having special "save points" on the keyboard (for instance, a button that makes you shoot to center, a button that makes you shoot a little up and right ,etc) would be the practical version of what he's talking about- those would be an absolute hot mess.

 

What he THINKS he wants is to snap the RETICULE to center, and then control the ship's pitch and yaw with the mouse. That's how some older flight sims did mouse and keyboard, and wow was it bad.

 

The problem is that you lose the ability to figure out where you are "steering". GSF 'steers' you by giving you a pitch and yaw axis, and letting you select your pitch and yaw off of this 2D plate. By putting the reticule at the top, you'll strongly pitch upward. Put it only a little above the center and you'll pitch upward lightly. If you were to hide the cursor and do this, you wouldn't know how to get back to center. So without it visible, you'd not be able to use this scheme at all, instead having to go SOLEY on mouse movement- meaning pitching would require constant mouse movement, a design that has been tested in several games and is unreasonable and awful.

 

 

The best controls for GSF would be the HOTAS setup, but then everyone would need a HOTAS setup.

[AceFirstCav]

A gunship can one-shot an unupgraded scout, if it crits (so it first has to pass the evasion check, then has to roll that 16% crit chance). Nothing else in the game can ever be one shot.

Damage and Weapon overcharge in TDM don´t exist anymore? Otherwise GS can one shot much more than just unupgraded scout for sure.

[Verain]

Do you think that's what OP is talking about? If so, take it up with him. Mention the existence of DO, how to recognize it, the zone wide call out in red, etc. A scout with a DO has a tiny time-to-kill (much smaller than the gunship) and requires a team to peel him, and of course, with DO, the number of things that one shot go way up (thermite, proton, etc.).

 

Damage overcharge isn't a one shot. Damage overcharge is a map specific mechanic.

[Nemarus]

I'm not going to bump this thread more than once, but to clarify, to reach maximum turning rate, I believe you do have to take your cursor out of the firing arc--this may seem less apparent with BLC/Cluster arcs, but it is obvious when using narrow arc weapons like Quads or Heavies.

 

Back in beta, we complained that the line-dot cursor that appears out of the arc should be more visible, as it can get lost amidst visual clutter. It was never changed (nothing in the interface was).

 

That being said, I think "losing track of it" mainly only happens if your mouse sensitivity is super high, and you haven't yet developed muscle memory about how much radius is required to max turn.

 

This is one of the reasons I always recommend that new GSF pilots set their mouse sensitivity comically low, and then work their way back up as their hand learns to play.

[Verain]

You could well be right. I'll pay attention when I'm next in game. Certainly, I've never lost my cursor since like the first week of play.

[Vox_Mortuum]

 

Also worth noting that the rewards are by no means fantastic. You could just do regular PvP or PvE if GSF isn't your cup of tea.

 

 

Its the conquest points, q pops much faster than FP daily's. and WZ doesn't load for some reason. So I spam this while I craft. The EXP and credits aren't that bad either.

[Vox_Mortuum]

Well what lasers and missiles were you shooting it with? How many shots actually landed? If you could tell us your set up most of us would be happy to give you pointers in improving your game.

 

The heavy lasers that come on the strike fighter, and a proton. he was stationary, so I know everything landed. And he took all of it, killed someone else, turned around, and one shot me from full shields and life.

[Vox_Mortuum]

Blah blah bah..

 

Also, if you don't enjoy something, that is your prerogative, but don't be so arrogant to assume that we care.

 

When did I assume you cared? Until you posted I had no idea you even existed, so how could I possible hold any assumptions about your state of mind?

 

I wrote this for my benefit and my benefit alone. Spending time venting frustration is important for mental health and performance.

 

Furthermore, the fact you bothered to drop in and post your opinion about my rant at all indicates some level of caring.

[Lendul]

When did I assume you cared? Until you posted I had no idea you even existed, so how could I possible hold any assumptions about your state of mind?

 

I wrote this for my benefit and my benefit alone. Spending time venting frustration is important for mental health and performance.

 

Furthermore, the fact you bothered to drop in and post your opinion about my rant at all indicates some level of caring.

You know what else can help with frustration? Educating yourself. That way you will not get upset with false assumptions of what you "think" is happening to you.

[nyghtrunner]

The heavy lasers that come on the strike fighter, and a proton. he was stationary, so I know everything landed. And he took all of it, killed someone else, turned around, and one shot me from full shields and life.

A stationary target by no means guarantees a hit, but your viewpoint here is instructive. As for the missile, he probably didn't get hit by that either.

 

Tier 3 Distortion Field, which is pretty standard fare on all gunships (yes, some people run other shields, but I think they are in general inferior. That said, it can be fun to troll someone with Feedback Shields), grants a missile break on activation, along with giving the user a significant boost in Evasion for 6s, which means your shots are far less likely to hit. I wish it weren't so, but Evasion >>>>>>>>> Hit Points. It's part of their design choice for the module, just one I've never been a fan of, since I tend to dislike RNG based things because it takes control away from the user to some degree, but that's a personal preference.

 

As for the 1-shot, outside of a TDM and your target having Damage Overcharge, that's highly unlikely (there are all kinds of explanations as to why it would appear to be a 1-shot to you, even though it most likely wasn't). Won't bother trying to dissect it, though, because it sounds like your mind is made up, and you wouldn't want to hear explanations anyway.

 

I must confess... I wonder what the purpose of coming in here and starting this thread was, if your plan was to discount anything anyone in the community says, or attempts to help, and just rage about the game. What's the point? If you hate the module this strongly, quit playing... There are generally plenty of ways to make Conquest Points that offer a much better RoR with regards to time invested. Soloing some of the LVL50 FPs as a LVL60 comes to mind... It's not mine, nor the module's fault that you feel compelled to fly GSF for conquest points, so why come at the community and module we've grown to love and start throwing acid around, then continue to throw it when people try to offer friendly advice or pointers?

 

I couldn't care less if you hate GSF and don't want to bother learning anything about it. I couldn't care less if you want to keep flying for conquest. And I certainly won't be bothered to give you any help considering the condescending attitude you've shown to others in this thread whom I consider my peers and in some cases, friends.

 

I wrote this for my benefit and my benefit alone. Spending time venting frustration is important for mental health and performance.

Then do us all a favor, vent in Notepad or Word, read it, save it, and close it. If it's for personal health, you don't need to bother subjecting us to it. From my perspective, you came in here with an axe to grind, so you can kindly show yourself the door.

Edited April 30, 2015 by nyghtrunner

[Vox_Mortuum]

But considering that you just continue to blame your poor performance on enemies having a Quantum Computer and a Razer Gaming Mouse with 18 macroed buttons playing gunships....you should probably just quit altogether and wait for Star Citizen.

 

Don't put words in my mouth.

 

I ranted a lot about what I consider poor design choices. I replied to the suggestion that I aught to buy a better mouse and or computer to play. I did not at any point suggest that other players having these things was the reason I was doing poorly.

 

If you disagree with me, that's fine. I enjoy a good argument. But disagree with what I actually say, don't misrepresent me so you can get that end post dig in.

[Vox_Mortuum]

Yes, we all have GSF mice, from the premium GSF store, bought with all the gold we got for rolling gunship.

 

 

If you can't keep a mouse cursor inside a giant red circle a third the size of your monitor, you don't need a new mouse, you need, like, myelin?

 

Again, I did not suggest that you having a better mouse or computer was in any way the cause of my irritation. If your going to disagree and be sarcastic, that's fine. Just aim it at something I actually suggested or said.

 

You don't know how my monitor is set up, therefore you have no grounds to assert how large anything appears on it. It was a nice try though.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Vox_Mortuum

[Ardaneb]

The people posting in this forum care about GSF. At the higher levels of skill, GSF is unbelievably fun. The problem is the learning curve. We don't like it when someone comes into the forum and confidently makes claims that no one would make once they advance far enough along the learning curve.

 

There are balance problems in GSF:

1. All strikes need a buff.

2. Low requisition gunships and bombers are more powerful than low requisition scouts and strike fighters.

3. New players can perform much better in gunships and bombers than they can in scouts and strike fighters because the skill floor on gunships and bombers is higher.

4. The steepness of the learning curve creates an enormous gap between new and experienced players. For example, you just confidently stated that because a target was stationary that you know all of your shots hit, when that gunship probably broke your missile lock and activated an evasion buff (distortion field) that would make it very unlikely for all centered shots to land.

5. Several of the default components need a buff and new players waste requisition upgrading them instead of switching to more valuable components.

 

There have been several threads started with suggestions on fixing all of the above problems. The only real disagreements in those threads is moderate buff versus large buff of the starter ships.

 

Look at #2,3 and it will tell you why there are so many gunships. It is because of the intermediate players. It has nothing to do with game balance at the top end. We should probably make an effort to respond to all posts like yours by saying "Yes, you are right, but the balance problem is not exactly where you think it is. Several of the starter ships need a buff. We are working on it, but the developers have more or less stopped working on GSF since June 2014."

 

I encourage you to keep with this game. If you inventory the responses to your posts, you will see that many offered explanations of what you are seeing. What is less obvious, is the majority of those responses came from pilots who prefer to fly scout. It turns out, good scouts are not afraid of gunships.

 

I recommend that you get the Razorwire/Rampart and the Mangler/Quarrel with your fleet requisition and then get yourself a sweet little Sting/Flashfire and a Drone carrier. If you want to dogfight in the current meta, you probably need to go with the Sting/Flashfire, but take time to understand at least one bomber and one gunship. They will seem easier at first, but when a top scout comes along against your gunship, I promise you will have a new understanding. Keep with it and good luck!

[Verain]

You don't know how my monitor is set up, therefore you have no grounds to assert how large anything appears on it. It was a nice try though.

 

Incorrect. SWTOR is a full screen app, so something meant to be a big part of your monitor is exactly that. The targeting circle is that large, no matter whether your monitor is big or small, no matter whether you are in good resolution or bad. So yes, I know exactly its size, and it's more than a nice try.

 

Unless you want to claim you are playing SWTOR in some tiny window. We've had some pretty fantastic stuff on the forums, but if you seriously have a large complaint about the size of something and you are playing in a tiny window too, I don't even think I could contain my mirth. Let it be true let it be true let it let it

[Verain]

There are balance problems in GSF:

1. All strikes need a buff.

2. Low requisition gunships and bombers are more powerful than low requisition scouts and strike fighters.

3. New players can perform much better in gunships and bombers than they can in scouts and strike fighters because the skill floor on gunships and bombers is higher.

4. The steepness of the learning curve creates an enormous gap between new and experienced players. For example, you just confidently stated that because a target was stationary that you know all of your shots hit, when that gunship probably broke your missile lock and activated an evasion buff (distortion field) that would make it very unlikely for all centered shots to land.

5. Several of the default components need a buff and new players waste requisition upgrading them instead of switching to more valuable components.

 

All of these are true, but I would say this:

1) - If the meta was a bit more diverse, it's entirely possible that the Clarion wouldn't need a buff. As it is, it does need at least a small one, and moderate would be fine. The type 1 and type 2 strikes unquestionably need a buff.

(2)- I think part of the issue here is just that low req ships aren't intended to be played for very long. Medium req ships mostly do what they should, and mastered ships are clearly what the game is designed for. I think low req bombers (and to a lesser degree gunships) are a lot more powerful than low req scouts (and definitely strikes).

(3) is true, but I'm not sure if it is an actual problem. It's good to have a "low skill floor" ship. It's frustrating to not start new players WITH that ship, however. I think the game could be totally fine with this continuing to be true.

(4,5) Definitely and entirely true.

 

There have been several threads started with suggestions on fixing all of the above problems. The only real disagreements in those threads is moderate buff versus large buff of the starter ships.

 

Also true. The GSF community is only in scrambles on the details here. There are issues that divide us, as any pvp group would had, but there's a large amount of agreement on changes that are needed. A big part of that is that everyone flies pretty much every ship, and so it's not like the ground game where you sort of need to play your main a certain amount of time or fall behind on gearing (and if you DO have multiple fully geared characters, you are a definite rarity, and if you stop playing for three months that won't be the case any more).