New Ziost boss and 204 MH

[Bradypan]

Curious but how did you feel when this was the situation:

 

"They cannot keep 180 MHs from HM Council, NiM TFB nerfs (I don't recall if there were NiM SNV nerfs), and the title(s) all at the same time. There is absolutely no situation here in which 180 MHs should be obtained from an easier boss with less gear requirements than a boss that drops a 175 MH."

 

Was NiM TFB/SNV not more difficult than HM DF/DP? Did people not farm easier content to be able to clear the more difficult content and get those titles/mounts?

 

Will this all not blow over when the next tier of HM content drops 210 gear or whatever?

 

DF and DP are a completely different tier of operations from TFB and SNV. You could probably tell that DF/DP HM dropped better gear than TFB/SNV HM, and DF/DP NiM dropped better gear than TFB/SNV NiM You could make that claim that Monolith is a whole new tier of operations, if you'd like, and that TC was also a whole new tier of operations.

[ReyCielo]

I think his point is that most of the NiM Kell Dragon drops required more skill to obtain than what was dropped in HM DF/DP. The loot wheel rolls. Edited April 29, 2015 by ReyCielo

[Bradypan]

I think his point is that most of the NiM Kell Dragon drops required more skill to obtain than what was dropped in HM DF/DP. The loot wheel rolls.

 

My point is that the loot wheel shouldn't roll from what is essentially a World Boss. Was NiM EC more difficult than SM TFB? Yes, but TFB should have new gear because it's a whole new tier of operations, for progression teams to work on. Was TFB/SNV NiM more difficult than DF/DP HM? Yes, but DF/DP HM should have new gear because it's a whole new tier of operations for progression teams to work on. Did TC HM drop 180 MHs and should it have dropped 180 MHs? How many teams went: "YES WE'RE 1/1 TC HM!!!"? No progression team considers 1 boss "operations" to be progression, and any teams working on HM Rav/TOS certainly will not be considering Colossal Monolith the next tier of progression. If they were to keep the same level of gear drops as TC, Monolith SM would have a random unassembled 192, Monolith HM would have a random unassembled 198. I'd still rather not have an easy HM boss drop the same token as the hardest fight in the game, but that'd still be better than the current case. If you don't agree with me then fine, I guess I'll see your team on the World Progression Tracker for Monolith HM.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Bradypan

[mastersdr]

I guess I am having a hard time figuring out what the complaint here is.

 

I don't think anyone can just go kill HM Revan with just a 204 MH. It takes two things, optimized gear and skill. Which is alot of casual players don't have. Lets say a fresh 60 in 186 com gear went and got a 204 MH. Does this mean he can go and kill Revan hm in his current gear? Of course not, He needs 192 optimized gear with auguments which takes while to get. The biggest thing is Skill, a person needs to know everything about their class (rotations, cooldowns). They need to know how and when them. There is still some people that don't know their class that well, and they need to have raid awareness. Even with 204 MHs, people will still struggle with the current hard mode tier.

 

Besides, it will take weeks for the majority of the playerbase to get their 204 MH with the weekly lockouts.

[ReyCielo]

My problem is that your argument contradicts itself in the same paragraph.

Logic Flow

Only the hardest bosses should drop the best loot. --> NiM TFB Difficulty > HM DF --> NiM TFB should drop better gear than HM DF

Progression groups should work on the hardest content --> Nim TFB > HM DF --> We only consider NiM TFB current progression because its harder even though HM DF is new.

 

You can't have it both ways to suit your argument. TC was part of the progression wheel where guilds would go get the mats and craft. Now, your simply bypassing the crafting part to improve your gear. For me to buy into your argument, you need to tell me that the quality of loot should be a more direct representation of the difficulty of the boss and that the way loot has been done previously, like for NiM TFB vs HM DF was poor. You can't just say, "Well its a new operation so of course it should have better gear." Which is essentially what your saying. If you do that, then I can simply throw your argument back at you, "Well this is a new instanced boss, of course it should have better gear."

[bdatt]

My point is that the loot wheel shouldn't roll from what is essentially a World Boss. Was NiM EC more difficult than SM TFB? Yes, but TFB should have new gear because it's a whole new tier of operations, for progression teams to work on. Was TFB/SNV NiM more difficult than DF/DP HM? Yes, but DF/DP HM should have new gear because it's a whole new tier of operations for progression teams to work on. Did TC HM drop 180 MHs and should it have dropped 180 MHs? How many teams went: "YES WE'RE 1/1 TC HM!!!"? No progression team considers 1 boss "operations" to be progression, and any teams working on HM Rav/TOS certainly will not be considering Colossal Monolith the next tier of progression. If they were to keep the same level of gear drops as TC, Monolith SM would have a random unassembled 192, Monolith HM would have a random unassembled 198. I'd still rather not have an easy HM boss drop the same token as the hardest fight in the game, but that'd still be better than the current case. If you don't agree with me then fine, I guess I'll see your team on the World Progression Tracker for Monolith HM.

 

If they had introduced this boss at the same time as the next sm/hm tier that drops 204/210 respectively would you have been ok? [Hypothetical.]

 

At least introducing it now gives guilds stuck at 2/10, 4/10, 8/10, whatever a piece of gear to go for and then possibly reinvigorate interest in the current HM tier instead of quitting/unsubbing.

Edited April 29, 2015 by bdatt

[mastersdr]

My problem is that your argument contradicts itself in the same paragraph.

Logic Flow

Only the hardest bosses should drop the best loot. --> NiM TFB Difficulty > HM DF --> NiM TFB should drop better gear than HM DF

Progression groups should work on the hardest content --> Nim TFB > HM DF --> We only consider NiM TFB current progression because its harder even though HM DF is new.

 

You can't have it both ways to suit your argument. TC was part of the progression wheel where guilds would go get the mats and craft. Now, your simply bypassing the crafting part to improve your gear. For me to buy into your argument, you need to tell me that the quality of loot should be a more direct representation of the difficulty of the boss and that the way loot has been done previously, like for NiM TFB vs HM DF was poor. You can't just say, "Well its a new operation so of course it should have better gear." Which is essentially what your saying. If you do that, then I can simply throw your argument back at you, "Well this is a new instanced boss, of course it should have better gear."

 

Fair enough. I was trying to say Revan HM will still be difficult even if you have 204 MH ended up rambling lol.

Edited April 29, 2015 by mastersdr

[ReyCielo]

This was more for the other guy, your post was spot on. Mechanics must still be met. The gear wheel always turns. Revan could have been cleared in 192s or 198s. What do we care how min/maxed you were when you killed it. it's your achievement with your own group. Own that, don't try to own everyone else's experience striving to that.

[Nic__]

While you are undoubtedly correct, how much aim would you be losing out on by switching from a 198 reflex barrel to a 204 commando compared to the increase in tech power/weapon damage? Wouldn't they still come out on top with the 204 barrel?

 

While that may be true as I said it is still a real d*** move to that pt/vanguard in the group for who that's his for (at least on their tank set) where as that merc will just discard it later once he does get his reflex barrel which is his bis

Edited April 29, 2015 by Nic__

[FerkWork]

My problem is that your argument contradicts itself in the same paragraph.

Logic Flow

Only the hardest bosses should drop the best loot. --> NiM TFB Difficulty > HM DF --> NiM TFB should drop better gear than HM DF

Progression groups should work on the hardest content --> Nim TFB > HM DF --> We only consider NiM TFB current progression because its harder even though HM DF is new.

 

You can't have it both ways to suit your argument. TC was part of the progression wheel where guilds would go get the mats and craft. Now, your simply bypassing the crafting part to improve your gear. For me to buy into your argument, you need to tell me that the quality of loot should be a more direct representation of the difficulty of the boss and that the way loot has been done previously, like for NiM TFB vs HM DF was poor. You can't just say, "Well its a new operation so of course it should have better gear." Which is essentially what your saying. If you do that, then I can simply throw your argument back at you, "Well this is a new instanced boss, of course it should have better gear."

 

TC is not an Operation it's an instanced world boss. No one cared for world 1st clears of TC HM. Second, his logic is fine as this is not the next tier. Tiers by BW are either NiM additions followed by 2 new Ops. Third, while Mechanic wise NiM SnV is harder than HM DP the gear requirement for HM DP is higher (174). Here the gear requirement is less than Revan HM and drops better gear which doesn't make sense progression wise. If it of the same tier as to be completed in the same gear as these Ops or less than it should be reflected there.

Edited April 29, 2015 by FerkWork

[JouerTue]

i think it's just a cheap nerf.

 

in the end it's not that important which gear you use..the hardest ops are the hardest even with a slightly better gear.

 

i know the weight of 4-5 MHs, but in this moment, i welcome this change,

 

especially if it helps stuck guilds and if it brings back dps classes not viable for the content.

 

finally if you downed revan already or you are close to, you won't care much about which weapon you used.

[ReyCielo]

Honestly, I just have a problem with the elitist attitude. You still beat it first, you're still a better play, other people downing it doesn't diminish this fact. The only people that really have a bone to pick here, in my opinion, are people who enjoy the high end crafting in this game. Understandably, progression groups use funds from crafting to fund their numerous pulls against these bosses. Heck, if you had approached it from that specific angle, I'd totally feel you. I made several hundred millions crafting during the TFB/SV NiM days. The progression of crafting in this game has always been a crapshoot. Like essentially liquidating all of my mats supplies before 3.0 because I didn't want to risk the drop to 0 in price. If I had been wrong, the speculators would have made a small mint.

[agentwx]

TC is not an Operation it's an instanced world boss. No one cared for world 1st clears of TC HM. Second, his logic is fine as this is not the next tier. Tiers by BW are either NiM additions followed by 2 new Ops. Third, while Mechanic wise NiM SnV is harder than HM DP the gear requirement for HM DP is higher (174). Here the gear requirement is less than Revan HM and drops better gear which doesn't make sense progression wise. If it of the same tier as to be completed in the same gear as these Ops or less than it should be reflected there.

 

Do Free to Play or Preferred status players need a weekly operations pass to encounter the boss? Yes they do, therefore it's an operation. Short? Very. Still it's an operation.

 

As a side note despite being "only" a single boss encounter there was quite a hype around Nightmare Pilgrim, Dread Tooth, Dreadful and Hateful Entity back in the time.

 

One can still see people searching for a guild which is willing and able to sell them Crest of the Dread Master.

 

[midianlord]

Happy coincidence, the guy who got the blaster was in my guild, lucky sod, hope he breaks 6k deeps!

 

Hope he does it before his ban for exploiting comes in, at any rate.

 

Oh, hey, wait a minute...AustinWare.

 

Right then, carry on.

[Pietrastor]

I guess I am having a hard time figuring out what the complaint here is.

 

I don't think anyone can just go kill HM Revan with just a 204 MH. It takes two things, optimized gear and skill. Which is alot of casual players don't have.

 

Seriously. 180s and lvl 55 didn't help most PUGs clear EC HM/NiM. Took lvl 60 and most damage reflected for EC to become puggable. DF/DP hm pugs require achivs often when LFMing on fleet because lvl 60 and 198 gear doesn't overcome tactics of HM version of these ops, let alone NiM

[FerkWork]

Do Free to Play or Preferred status players need a weekly operations pass to encounter the boss? Yes they do, therefore it's an operation. Short? Very. Still it's an operation.

 

As a side note despite being "only" a single boss encounter there was quite a hype around Nightmare Pilgrim, Dread Tooth, Dreadful and Hateful Entity back in the time.

 

One can still see people searching for a guild which is willing and able to sell them Crest of the Dread Master.

 

That's neat but we are discussing semantics. It's not a full operation in the sense their is 4-5 bosses. Who cares anyways. /shrugs

[FerkWork]

Seriously. 180s and lvl 55 didn't help most PUGs clear EC HM/NiM. Took lvl 60 and most damage reflected for EC to become puggable. DF/DP hm pugs require achivs often when LFMing on fleet because lvl 60 and 198 gear doesn't overcome tactics of HM version of these ops, let alone NiM

 

Can't wait for 4.0 Wing farming on Brontes then

[GhOsTPrOz]

I came across 2 screenshots from TRE that will support the OP.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Yv6Tzwv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uamLe3H.jpg

 

Do you care to explain Bioware?

 

Very interesting shot....its a assassin tank with a main hand ment for a power tech...also it appears to be vender gear or something as the mods are un min maxed ...I say it's fake

[invertioN]

Very interesting shot....its a assassin tank with a main hand ment for a power tech...also it appears to be vender gear or something as the mods are un min maxed ...I say it's fake

 

lol the mainhand ls linked in chat and also it's not fake...

[FerkWork]

lol the mainhand ls linked in chat and also it's not fake...

 

Yeah the person linking and the one screenshotting are different lol.

[Overmind]

Maybe new op will drop 210 MH, thats why 204 is on WB.

[Czajja]

I really cant believe they are so stupid to create next tier of gear only for faceroll WB........

 

This is madness.

[FerkWork]

I really cant believe they are so stupid to create next tier of gear only for faceroll WB........

 

This is madness.

 

[Frostbytez]

Sorry but I don't see why the 204 mainhand would be any problem.

 

I can't say for everyone but I myself, as a progression raider, do raids for progression and achievements, not to get the most powerful gears in-game. Everyone need better gears for progression, yes, but that's it. Unless we need the gears pretty badly that we wouldn't be able to progress without them, I'm fine. (still wearing many 192 pieces when we downed Revan)

 

So... I can say I didn't do Revan for 198 MH, not primarily. I did it for the achievement, for self-esteem and such. To be able to claim that we have done it and we're good enough to do it. The joy when we successfully achieved it. In my PoV those are the actual rewards, the MH is just a give-away for the achievement. If someones would skip Revan and get their 204 MHs from the new boss, then it's fine. And why not? If they had not done Revan they still had not done it.

 

Anyway, don't get me wrong. I do want that 204 MH like everyone does. But I'll be just fine with or without it as long as I and my raid team can do what we do. In the end, achievements speak louder than gears.

[mastirkal]

Sorry but I don't see why the 204 mainhand would be any problem.

 

I can't say for everyone but I myself, as a progression raider, do raids for progression and achievements, not to get the most powerful gears in-game. Everyone need better gears for progression, yes, but that's it. Unless we need the gears pretty badly that we wouldn't be able to progress without them, I'm fine. (still wearing many 192 pieces when we downed Revan)

 

So... I can say I didn't do Revan for 198 MH, not primarily. I did it for the achievement, for self-esteem and such. To be able to claim that we have done it and we're good enough to do it. The joy when we successfully achieved it. In my PoV those are the actual rewards, the MH is just a give-away for the achievement. If someones would skip Revan and get their 204 MHs from the new boss, then it's fine. And why not? If they had not done Revan they still had not done it.

 

Anyway, don't get me wrong. I do want that 204 MH like everyone does. But I'll be just fine with or without it as long as I and my raid team can do what we do. In the end, achievements speak louder than gears.

 

On a technical aspect, giving 204s are fine, people know who killed revan and got a legit mainhand, title etc. and it helps teams that haven't got the kill yet. On a pride level it's an insult to anyone who got a legit main hand from revan. It's not a new operation and it's not the last boss of said operation. It's a pushover world instance boss.