So Bioware, about people bypassing the locked part on Ziost to fight the OP Boss etc.

[Anaesha]

As I posted yesterday, punishment for exploiting should be:

 

1. Removal of all in game credits from all characters in account

2. Removal of all gear from all characters in account

3. Removal od all Legacy levels and perks

4. Removal of all titles and achievements

5. Removal of all experience boosts for 30 playing days (not just 30 calendar days, but 30 days of game play)

6. Barring from ability to group for 30 days

7. Barring from guild membership for 30 days

8. Return all characters in account to level one and return them to the starting planet as new characters

9. No in game chat for 30 days

 

No bans needed.

 

That's to extreme for a single offense.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

As I posted yesterday, punishment for exploiting should be:

 

1. Removal of all in game credits from all characters in account

2. Removal of all gear from all characters in account

3. Removal od all Legacy levels and perks

4. Removal of all titles and achievements

5. Removal of all experience boosts for 30 playing days (not just 30 calendar days, but 30 days of game play)

6. Barring from ability to group for 30 days

7. Barring from guild membership for 30 days

8. Return all characters in account to level one and return them to the starting planet as new characters

9. No in game chat for 30 days

 

No bans needed.

 

Yeah because that's worse than a ban lol. Anyone getting that kind of punishment will simply create another account so they can at least group up, join a guild, use exp boosts etc. Effectively self banning.

[Atlanis]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to give you an update on the Ziost exploit that was discovered. As mentioned in my post yesterday, we took action against those players who had participated and we are continuing to monitor for additional players throughout May 4th. In doing so, we have discovered more players who were exploiting last night. Since we had previously expressed that participation was considered an exploit, we are going to be increasing the action taken against these players. Those players will all be receiving a minimum of a one week suspension, along with the other actions which we listed yesterday.

 

To reiterate, we will continue to monitor this issue throughout the morning of May 4th when the area goes live. Action will continue against players who participate in this exploit. Thank you all for helping us to keep The Old Republic a fun and fair place for everyone.

 

-eric

 

Nice ^^

[TUXs]

As I posted yesterday, punishment for exploiting should be:

 

1. Removal of all in game credits from all characters in account

2. Removal of all gear from all characters in account

3. Removal od all Legacy levels and perks

4. Removal of all titles and achievements

5. Removal of all experience boosts for 30 playing days (not just 30 calendar days, but 30 days of game play)

6. Barring from ability to group for 30 days

7. Barring from guild membership for 30 days

8. Return all characters in account to level one and return them to the starting planet as new characters

9. No in game chat for 30 days

 

No bans needed.

This is just moronic. Are you hoping players just quit the game?

[idnewton]

Honestly, I don't care for the heavy handed approach too much.

 

Punishment is needed, and bans are warranted, but being too heavy handed just drives people away from the game, even when the punishment is warranted.

 

I think punishment like the kind given here is acceptable, but yes I agree there is a limit. Suggestions like this are just plain absurd:

1. Removal of all in game credits from all characters in account

2. Removal of all gear from all characters in account

3. Removal od all Legacy levels and perks

4. Removal of all titles and achievements

5. Removal of all experience boosts for 30 playing days (not just 30 calendar days, but 30 days of game play)

6. Barring from ability to group for 30 days

7. Barring from guild membership for 30 days

8. Return all characters in account to level one and return them to the starting planet as new characters

9. No in game chat for 30 days

I agree that level of severity is totally uncalled-for and would drive legitimate players away from the game too.

there comes a point where you have to weight how you deal with them against your public image. Being too heavy handed with punishments can have unpredictable backlashes for the game's proprietors.

That's what would happen if this ridiculous idea was used.

 

 

Honestly, I don't care for the heavy handed approach too much.

 

Punishment is needed, and bans are warranted, but being too heavy handed just drives people away from the game, even when the punishment is warranted.

The punishment should drive certain people away. Not the common player, but exploiters and cheaters. The trick is to design the punishment so it's severe enough to deter exploiters, but mild enough that innocent players don't miss a beat.

 

 

whether there is a 1, 2, and 10 day ban, cheaters are still going to cheat if they think there is a chance they can get away with it.

This is why this action is needed. The fact that the exploiters had their achievement, 204 gear, and ill-gained commendations removed is a good sign. It's also good to see that temp-bans were given. However, the most important part of Bioware's action against the exploiters is the part which deals with players guilty of both the Ziost and the Ravagers exploits. At the end of the day, temp-bans are really just a slap on the wrist. What Bioware needs to show is that persistent refusal to abide by the rules will result in much more serious consequences.

[Murdura]

As I posted yesterday, punishment for exploiting should be:

 

1. Removal of all in game credits from all characters in account

2. Removal of all gear from all characters in account

3. Removal od all Legacy levels and perks

4. Removal of all titles and achievements

5. Removal of all experience boosts for 30 playing days (not just 30 calendar days, but 30 days of game play)

6. Barring from ability to group for 30 days

7. Barring from guild membership for 30 days

8. Return all characters in account to level one and return them to the starting planet as new characters

9. No in game chat for 30 days

 

No bans needed.

 

 

 

This is the worst idea. Even worse than Jar-Jar Binks.

[DarthDymond]

Hehe, Poe's Law is definitely in full effect in this thread.

[The_Wulff]

So.....if the people from yesterday rec'd a 3 day, then that means the people doing it last night through this morning are not the same people, correct? Why would they get a week and not 3 days?

 

Stupid question time, and if it is a stupid question my apologies in advance, but other than on these forums, has this warning been posted anywhere else? Is it possible if someone isn't a forum browser/reader they have no idea about this warning? (I haven't had a chance to log on to play since Tuesday evening so I don't know if there's a message on the launcher or something.....)

 

Fair question. The warning was posted in this thread and it shows up in the Dev Tracker. It was also repeated on Dulfy and the SWTOR Reddit.

 

It is common for the SWTOR team to make fast turn around game announcements on the Dev Tracker. It is true that not all players read it but it is publicly available. To be fair the Dev Tracker is where announcements of bug fix patches take place as well.

[ekwalizer]

Eric, you probably lack this tech, but other MMOs that have had areas which were off limits for a duration after being patched to live used a teleport mechanic to instantly teleport any player character that enters the area back to a safe zone.

 

I guess in the guess of SWTOR, if you can't do that, maybe you could have put in place exhaustion zone in there.

 

We'd prefer you to patch again a week later than to have exploits live like this. Players will always find away around, so you need to make being there impossible.

 

There are certain places on Rishi's boardwalk that if you fall off you will be teleported to the cantina. Not sure if that is intentional or not.

[EvilTazz]

Got my 72 hours and I'm fine with that. I killed the world boss and got a decoration, hence I'm getting punished, will I 'exploit' again? No. I didn't go anywhere near the raid boss, so please don't start with 204MH's, etc.

 

One thing I'd like to ask however, for a first time offender this punishment seems out of proportion compared to punishment people have received for the Ravagers exploit - Didn't take part in that but know people who did. Why are people who got a decoration - myself - receiving 72 hour bans compared to those who got free 192 gear and a substantial amount of Matter Transubstantiator's in Ravagers and only got a 24 hour ban with none of these ill-gotten items removed?

 

Also, why are people who abused the Ziost speeder in warzones not receiving punishment?

 

In terms of preventing things like this in the future, please either just release all the content at once - not staggered, as you can see some of us can't withstand temptation. However if you are going to stagger content with hidden areas and bosses then make said areas an exhaustion zone or similar to the Rakghoul event and teleport players away from the area.

 

Oh and community, please stop this witch hunt/mob mentality, unless I've done a personal grievance to you then please don't have a go at me, we're all human after all.

Edited April 30, 2015 by EvilTazz

[Infernixx]

Got my 72 hours and I'm fine with that. I killed the world boss and got a decoration, hence I'm getting punished, will I 'exploit' again? No. I didn't go anywhere near the raid boss, so please don't start with 204MH's, etc.

 

One thing I'd like to ask however, for a first time offender this punishment seems out of proportion compared to punishment people have received for the Ravagers exploit - Didn't take part in that but know people who did. Why are people who got a decoration - myself - receiving 72 hour bans compared to those who got free 192 gear and a substantial amount of Matter Transubstantiator's in Ravagers and only got a 24 hour ban with none of these ill-gotten items removed?

 

Also, why are people who abused the Ziost speeder in warzones not receiving punishment?

 

In terms of preventing things like this in the future, please either just release all the content at once - not staggered, as you can see some of us can't withstand temptation. However if you are going to stagger content with hidden areas and bosses then make said areas an exhaustion zone or similar to the Rakghoul event and teleport players away from the area.

 

Oh and community, please stop this witch hunt/mob mentality, unless I've done a personal grievance to you then please don't have a go at me, we're all human after all.

 

"Well, if they didn't want me getting into their house, they should have had a stronger lock on the door."

[DanNV]

This is just moronic. Are you hoping players just quit the game?

 

Only cheaters. If they quit other people are more likely not to.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Fair question. The warning was posted in this thread and it shows up in the Dev Tracker. It was also repeated on Dulfy and the SWTOR Reddit.

 

It is common for the SWTOR team to make fast turn around game announcements on the Dev Tracker. It is true that not all players read it but it is publicly available. To be fair the Dev Tracker is where announcements of bug fix patches take place as well.

 

I touched on this issue earlier and no one really picked up on it ...

 

Would it be that hard for Bioware to improve this communication? A simple login screen message stating there is a current important in game issue and people need to please read ( and links to the first BW post in this thread ) or something involving the ticket system with a green popup you get when you get a reply stating the issue and to not accept any summons etc. to Ziost and/or to quit group etc. if they do find themselves summoned to the area.

 

My main issue is the whole summon thing with guilds. It is quite easy for someone happily playing away to not know anything about this exploit and receive a summons, accept it, do the content, get banned and have no idea why as it seemed perfectly logical.

 

Whilst I'm the first to want to see cheaters punished ( hence the title in my sig that was awarded to me during Ravagergate ) I do feel I am fair in my views and in this case I can see innocent people getting punished ( when you pick up loot without killing a boss there is no innocent party involved, no one can claim that seemed 'normal' ).

 

Bioware are now stepping up punishment for people ignoring their warnings but they've not actually posted anywhere where EVERYONE can see to receive said warning.

 

Communication needs to improve.

[EvilTazz]

"Well, if they didn't want me getting into their house, they should have had a stronger lock on the door."

 

Yes, because what I do in a game transitions into what I'd do in life, absolutely.

 

I used the Ravagers bug quite a lot on a number of characters back when it was going on.

 

Pot, meet Kettle.

[JackChng]

So people who access the Lair Boss exploit are given a bigger punishment than those who constantly exploit Ravagers previously?

 

I would say the Ravagers exploit is even more serious and yet the punishment is way less than what you are recommending for this exploit. And best of all, those who exploited Ravagers got like a day ban but are allowed to keep their gear/loot from that exploit.

 

So Bioware, have you ever thought of this? I know people with seldom used toons start running an op with 198s already and boasting about it. I know where they got it from...and definitely not in hard earn ops. Before the patch, earning ult comms is slow and even if you do all the quests, you will barely hit the weekly limit.

 

Ultimately, the exploit is due to developers ignoring feedback from PTS users on insufficient QA before releash.

The best way to stop this is to actually test important parts of the game.

 

Bioware, it is just disappointing to see all these bugs, bugs long prevalent in ops, exploits etc and constant patches that just eats up our subscription time. Really disappointing.

Edited April 30, 2015 by JackChng
adding comments

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Got my 72 hours and I'm fine with that. I killed the world boss and got a decoration, hence I'm getting punished, will I 'exploit' again? No. I didn't go anywhere near the raid boss, so please don't start with 204MH's, etc.

 

One thing I'd like to ask however, for a first time offender this punishment seems out of proportion compared to punishment people have received for the Ravagers exploit - Didn't take part in that but know people who did. Why are people who got a decoration - myself - receiving 72 hour bans compared to those who got free 192 gear and a substantial amount of Matter Transubstantiator's in Ravagers and only got a 24 hour ban with none of these ill-gotten items removed?

 

Also, why are people who abused the Ziost speeder in warzones not receiving punishment?

 

In terms of preventing things like this in the future, please either just release all the content at once - not staggered, as you can see some of us can't withstand temptation. However if you are going to stagger content with hidden areas and bosses then make said areas an exhaustion zone or similar to the Rakghoul event and teleport players away from the area.

 

Oh and community, please stop this witch hunt/mob mentality, unless I've done a personal grievance to you then please don't have a go at me, we're all human after all.

 

Because they completely mishandled ravagers and it was far too much work to do the type of investigation and gear removal for that compared to this and also it was just too wide spread.

 

This time they caught it early and acted promptly and one would hope the ravagers exploiters caught this time will be out for weeks minimum per their warning at ravagers.

 

I think THIS is how they wanted to handle ravagers but it just couldn't be done thus they are prompt on to issues now.

 

One other gripe I have ... they can patch the speeder, revan and whatever the other one was quick enough but not this exploit? Makes you think they leave it there as a carrot because they want to ban people heh.

[dscount]

And slaps on the wrist risk driving away the more fair-minded players. Who do you think it's better to risk losing, the cheaters or the fair-minded?

 

While I usually shake my head at Muffin's posts.... I totally agree with Bran on this one.

 

Good playing folks shouldn't have to "Cheat" to try and keep up with those that knew about the latest exploit. Ravagers exploiter and Ziost exploiter added to the mix just means those folks should be seeing WAY more happen if they did BOTH of the exploits. Only way they are going to learn (Ouch that fire is hot...). Other MMO's Perma-ban for silly stuff like this, but we seem to be taking the feather tickle approach lately.

 

Time to WHACK 'em Boys!

 

FYI - Excellent FOLLOW UP communications Eric Musco! Thank you very much.

Edited April 30, 2015 by dscount

[EvilTazz]

Because they completely mishandled ravagers and it was far too much work to do the type of investigation and gear removal for that compared to this and also it was just too wide spread.

 

This time they caught it early and acted promptly and one would hope the ravagers exploiters caught this time will be out for weeks minimum per their warning at ravagers.

 

I think THIS is how they wanted to handle ravagers but it just couldn't be done thus they are prompt on to issues now.

 

One other gripe I have ... they can patch the speeder, revan and whatever the other one was quick enough but not this exploit? Makes you think they leave it there as a carrot because they want to ban people heh.

 

I agree that they handled this quite well and that this is how they should have handled Ravagers.

 

You do raise a good point, as others have said not all players are active on the forums and without an in-game warning and not blocking it off ,which I'm sure they could have done with today's emergency patch, it does seem odd.

[Nickious]

 

Now, with an exploit that they knew about from the PTS that has only been going on for two days, they handed out 3-day suspensions to the first offenders and then in a day upped it to 7-days? It's something they knew about before going live.

 

 

False. They fixed the first one they found in PTS. Someone found a second method to get through. Exploiters always find away.

 

They only upped it to 7 days because there was already a warning, and if you decided to flagrantly decided "lol thats it" and told Bioware to screw off the next day by doing it when it clearly said it was against the rules, its 7 days.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Nickious

[Infernixx]

Yes, because what I do in a game transitions into what I'd do in life, absolutely.

Pot, meet Kettle.

 

The difference between me and you is that when the Dev said "We're taking it seriously now, don't do it again" I listened and believed them.

 

See, I exploited the Ravagers thing and I did so repeatedly over a number of weeks. I did this based on the fact that the Dev ignored the exploiters in the Nefra thing. I saw that they merely fixed the problem and did nothing to the exploiters with their 180 and 186 gear, so when the Ravagers thing happened, I figured 'why not? The Dev don't care, so why should I?'

 

So, when they came out and punished us for the Ravagers thing and said "Worse is coming if you do it again", I believed them. And I didn't exploit again.

 

And hey, look at that, I guess we both found out how serious they are about it.

[Jimmajamma]

False. They fixed the first one they found in PTS. Someone found a second method to get through.

 

They should've just not spawned the bosses or checked to see if there were any other ways in, but the QA masters they are just said "eh, it's probably fixed".

 

Reading is hard.

 

I know they patched the first way out. My dig was that they couldn't possibly conceive that there would be another way in.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Jimmajamma

[dscount]

ERIC-

 

How about some LOGIN / SPLASH screen updates? Might eliminate the "gee I didn't know..." crowd before weekend hits.

 

But, seriously if folks are not aware of this in game by now they are blind or playing ignorant. GM's and Officers should be updating MOTD telling folks NOT to be stupid, etc.

[dscount]

And hey, look at that, I guess we both found out how serious they are about it.

 

Infernixx.. I'm busting up laughing on that... thx man.. :D:D

[MeNaCe-NZ]

ERIC-

 

How about some LOGIN / SPLASH screen updates? Might eliminate the "gee I didn't know..." crowd before weekend hits.

 

But, seriously if folks are not aware of this in game by now they are blind or playing ignorant. GM's and Officers should be updating MOTD telling folks NOT to be stupid, etc.

 

Agreed but then it's those same guild "leaders" who are going around summoning people in the first place.

 

All the more reason for people to be in a more mature guild lead by people who don't believe in cheating.

[Nickious]

Reading is hard.

 

I know they patched the first way out. My dig was that they couldn't possibly conceive that there would be another way in.

 

Why be up in arms at all? Whats the big deal if you did nothing wrong? Unless you happen to know some of the individuals or you were personally involved, there shouldn't be at all.

 

Surely you know going where you are told not to go when you signed ToS is wrong, whether they left it there on accident or not. Bugs and in general, **** happens.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Nickious