Aetideus Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) As the title suggests, Superheated Flamethrower should tick twice as fast in order to have effective cleave results. It is already gimped compared to ST and would be more usable taking in account the loss of the 30% DR on Area and Stun of the old spec. Edited April 13, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Or, have the ability to move while using Superheated Flamethrower. That would fix 90% of the problems with Pyrotech... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Or, have the ability to move while using Superheated Flamethrower. That would fix 90% of the problems with Pyrotech... That would make Pyro OP. Or any spec that would have that AoE on the move - and even I dont think that can be implemented due to the AoE mechs. It is not AoE. Edited April 13, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 As the title suggests, Superheated Flamethrower should tick twice as fast in order to have effective cleave results. It is already gimped compared to ST and would be more usable taking in account the loss of the 30% DR on Area and Stun of the old spec. i approve of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 and even I dont think that can be implemented due to the AoE mechs. It is not AoE. Ever turn while flamethrowering? That's moving the flamethrower. It is 100% possible to make flamethrower work on the move with the engine swtor is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 Ever turn while flamethrowering? That's moving the flamethrower. It is 100% possible to make flamethrower work on the move with the engine swtor is running. You are right about turning, not exactly sure about the moving cone beyond the 10m radius though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Or, have the ability to move while using Superheated Flamethrower. That would fix 90% of the problems with Pyrotech... I approve this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) I approve this message. I don't. Meta doesn't need more mobility. Nor does Pyro need double flamethrower speed. pre 3.0 AP was more than fine, and it's flamethrower ticked no faster than Pyrotech's. Also making Flamthrower usable while moving doesn't fix the issue with famethrower. The issue with flamethrower and the rest of Pyrotech is that the damage is ****. Pre 3.0 AP's flamethrower while being just as vulnerable as Pyrotech's current was compensated by the fact that old flamethrower actually killed people if you caught them in it. Now you can facetank the full channel and shrug it off like it was nothing. The fact of the matter is that in 3.0 the devs decided to combine old Pyro's dot mechanics with old AP's cleave and burst spec mechanics. However with the dots added in, the devs gutted the AP cleave and it's single target in order to prevent the spec from being overpowered in PvE. Also since the spec retained the AP mechanics, the devs also couldn't justify making the dots hit hard either. Simply put old AP was never designed to be a dotspec, just as old Pyro was never designed to be a cleave spec. Frankensteining the two together was a poor idea. Basically as long as Pyro has it's dots, the flamethrower, and the rest of the spec will be trash in PvP. I honestly think the vanguard community would be bettered served pushing for a complete overhaul of the spec. While such a overhaul obviously won't happen in 3.x, it is something that should be consistently kept on combat devs minds so that hopefully that will fix their mistake in 4.0. Edited April 15, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I don't. Meta doesn't need more mobility. Nor does Pyro need double flamethrower speed. pre 3.0 AP was more than fine, and it's flamethrower ticked no faster than Pyrotech's. Also making Flamthrower usable while moving doesn't fix the issue with famethrower. The issue with flamethrower and the rest of Pyrotech is that the damage is ****. Pre 3.0 AP's flamethrower while being just as vulnerable as Pyrotech's current was compensated by the fact that old flamethrower actually killed people if you caught them in it. Now you can facetank the full channel and shrug it off like it was nothing. The fact of the matter is that in 3.0 the devs decided to combine old Pyro's dot mechanics with old AP's cleave and burst spec mechanics. However with the dots added in, the devs gutted the AP cleave and it's single target in order to prevent the spec from being overpowered in PvE. Also since the spec retained the AP mechanics, the devs also couldn't justify making the dots hit hard either. Simply put old AP was never designed to be a dotspec, just as old Pyro was never designed to be a cleave spec. Frankensteining the two together was a poor idea. Basically as long as Pyro has it's dots, the flamethrower, and the rest of the spec will be trash in PvP. I honestly think the vanguard community would be bettered served pushing for a complete overhaul of the spec. While such a overhaul obviously won't happen in 3.x, it is something that should be consistently kept on combat devs minds so that hopefully that will fix their mistake in 4.0. To be fair, 3.0 removed Tactics/AP completely, renamed Assault/Pyro to Tactics/AP and emphasized the burst nature of the spec, and then added Plasmatech/Pyro as the hybrid of patch 2.0-2.6. Unfortunately, the wrong things were emphasized from the hybrid. How the hybrid worked: In a perfect RNG situation of Flame Barrage/battering ram always proccing, the rotation would be: Retractable Blade -> Flamethrower -> Rocket Punch -> Rail Shot -> Flame Burst -> Flame Burst -> Flame Burst -> Rail Shot -> Rocket Punch -> Retractable Blade -> Flamethrower -> Flame Burst -> Rail Shot -> Incendiary Missile -> Rocket Punch -> Flame Burst -> Rail Shot -> Flame Burst -> Repeat If RNG was being unkind, Incendiary Missile would be dropped for a rapid shots to enable slightly more heat, but that was the only sacrifice required due to resource management. The emphasis of damage was not in the Flamethrower but rather the 2 uses of Rail Shot. Hell, Flamethrowers primary use was having 2GCDs for the price of 1, and the spec only had surge on Rail Shot, Burns, and Flame Burst. Now when 3.0 was released, you could easily see the similarities between the 2 specs. But things were missing, and surge was in the wrong spot, and the whole thing was prematurely nerfed due to a bugged set bonus... Oh and the more durable Shield Tech/AP Hybrid obviously turned into 3.0 Shield Tech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 To be fair, 3.0 removed Tactics/AP completely, renamed Assault/Pyro to Tactics/AP and emphasized the burst nature of the spec, and then added Plasmatech/Pyro as the hybrid of patch 2.0-2.6. Unfortunately, the wrong things were emphasized from the hybrid. How the hybrid worked: In a perfect RNG situation of Flame Barrage/battering ram always proccing, the rotation would be: Retractable Blade -> Flamethrower -> Rocket Punch -> Rail Shot -> Flame Burst -> Flame Burst -> Flame Burst -> Rail Shot -> Rocket Punch -> Retractable Blade -> Flamethrower -> Flame Burst -> Rail Shot -> Incendiary Missile -> Rocket Punch -> Flame Burst -> Rail Shot -> Flame Burst -> Repeat If RNG was being unkind, Incendiary Missile would be dropped for a rapid shots to enable slightly more heat, but that was the only sacrifice required due to resource management. The emphasis of damage was not in the Flamethrower but rather the 2 uses of Rail Shot. Hell, Flamethrowers primary use was having 2GCDs for the price of 1, and the spec only had surge on Rail Shot, Burns, and Flame Burst. Now when 3.0 was released, you could easily see the similarities between the 2 specs. But things were missing, and surge was in the wrong spot, and the whole thing was prematurely nerfed due to a bugged set bonus... Oh and the more durable Shield Tech/AP Hybrid obviously turned into 3.0 Shield Tech Well the 2.0 to 2.6 hybrid was never PvP viable (cuz them PvP mechanic thingies) and pre 3.0 AP was always used for it's cleave and it's cleave alone. (well except for that skank shenanagins in season 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Well the 2.0 to 2.6 hybrid was never PvP viable (cuz them PvP mechanic thingies) and pre 3.0 AP was always used for it's cleave and it's cleave alone. (well except for that skank shenanagins in season 1) I think the main reason the 2.0-2.6 hybrid wasn't used in PvP was because its defensive talents consisted of: Assault Frame/Flame Suit ... Yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) I don't. Meta doesn't need more mobility. Nor does Pyro need double flamethrower speed. pre 3.0 AP was more than fine, and it's flamethrower ticked no faster than Pyrotech's. Also making Flamthrower usable while moving doesn't fix the issue with famethrower. The issue with flamethrower and the rest of Pyrotech is that the damage is ****. Pre 3.0 AP's flamethrower while being just as vulnerable as Pyrotech's current was compensated by the fact that old flamethrower actually killed people if you caught them in it. Now you can facetank the full channel and shrug it off like it was nothing. The fact of the matter is that in 3.0 the devs decided to combine old Pyro's dot mechanics with old AP's cleave and burst spec mechanics. However with the dots added in, the devs gutted the AP cleave and it's single target in order to prevent the spec from being overpowered in PvE. Also since the spec retained the AP mechanics, the devs also couldn't justify making the dots hit hard either. Simply put old AP was never designed to be a dotspec, just as old Pyro was never designed to be a cleave spec. Frankensteining the two together was a poor idea. Basically as long as Pyro has it's dots, the flamethrower, and the rest of the spec will be trash in PvP. I honestly think the vanguard community would be bettered served pushing for a complete overhaul of the spec. While such a overhaul obviously won't happen in 3.x, it is something that should be consistently kept on combat devs minds so that hopefully that will fix their mistake in 4.0. Despite having fun with pre 3.0 AP, I don't view the current Pyro as inapplicable to PvP. Thread suggestion is an addition to burst. Even ~10k AoE in a gcd time is noteworthy. The other way would be a complete redesign to cleave/burst spec and doesn't seem too realistic in the upcoming updates as you say. Edited April 15, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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