Concern about nerfs to dps for PVE content

[mastirkal]

I disagree.

 

Enrage timers are one of the important gimmicks that's been going on in every MMO (WoW, FFXIV, Wildstar, etc.). Hard enrages are there to meet DPS/Mechanic awareness checks. Taking it away will remove the essence of Hard Modes being "hard". D:

 

Revan I might argue doesn't need a hard enrage though because there is no point in the revan fight where something isn't hurting you. Transition between floor one and two has the focuses that increasingly do more damage, and the 80 seconds before instant gib between floor two and three make sure you can't stall there. Floor three obviously has abs and the core which you can't survive forever on. Now that I think about it, why does revan need a enrage timer? All of his mechanics ensure there is a soft enrage that you can't just sit around and wait for/ All the other nine bosses make sense, but not really on revan.

 

On the same token, there's not really a reason why not to have a hard enrage on revan, seeing as you can't stall anywhere in the fight (maybe second floor before revan comes) anyway, you're already on a predetermined time between each floor.

Edited April 13, 2015 by mastirkal

[LordYoshii]

I disagree.

 

Enrage timers are one of the important gimmicks that's been going on in every MMO (WoW, FFXIV, Wildstar, etc.). Hard enrages are there to meet DPS/Mechanic awareness checks. Taking it away will remove the essence of Hard Modes being "hard". D:

 

enrage timers are the stupidest mechanic ever invented and have been since the first time they were used in wow. The most annoying thing i hear when raiding is to stuck it because we lose one person and cant make an enrage timer anymore. Enrage timers remove the ability for the raid to recover from a disaster and make an epic comeback, which if you watch any sports is one of the most entertaining things people like to watch. Its like watching a hockey game and the other team scores, then you just give up and forfeit the bloody game.

 

Im old so i no longer remember what my point was for this post but yeah, enrage timers should not be used as a mechanic outside of nightmare mod, anything earlier and its just lazy design

[FerkWork]

enrage timers are the stupidest mechanic ever invented and have been since the first time they were used in wow. The most annoying thing i hear when raiding is to stuck it because we lose one person and cant make an enrage timer anymore. Enrage timers remove the ability for the raid to recover from a disaster and make an epic comeback, which if you watch any sports is one of the most entertaining things people like to watch. Its like watching a hockey game and the other team scores, then you just give up and forfeit the bloody game.

 

Im old so i no longer remember what my point was for this post but yeah, enrage timers should not be used as a mechanic outside of nightmare mod, anything earlier and its just lazy design

 

Enrage timers prevent groups from just taking tanks and the rest healers and making a long boring fight. It gives DPS something to work for rather than make the fight all about the tanks and healers.

 

I haven't fought Revan yet but is his hard enrage as severe as Ruuger's?

Edited April 13, 2015 by FerkWork

[Terro_Fett]

THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUTWEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE FEW.

 

youz tha few btw.

if 9/10 guilds don't want to pull more Revan as it seems like a job they might go play another game...

Say they nerf Revan and these 9/10 players go 10/10. What happens then? What does their raid week look like going forward? You either have:

a) Farm 10/10 each week to min/max, gear alts, etc. to prepare for the next tier of content

or

b) Quit or Take a break/vacation/etc since there is nothing more to do at this time

 

Say they don't nerf Revan, these 9/10 guilds decide he's not worth the time and headaches required to kill. What does their raid week look like?

a) Farm 9/10 each week to min/max, gear alts, etc. to prepare for the next tier of content

or

b) Quit or Take a break/vacation/etc since there is nothing more to do at this time

 

The only difference between the two situations are whether or not you can farm a 198 main hand.

 

People say the devs shouldn't focus on the super elite 1%. Well if you are 9/10 capable it means you have access to 90% of the available content. Even 8/10 players have it good. There is literally 1 fight in the entire game at lvl 60 that is targeted towards the rare upper echelon. One boss out of this entire tier that is designed to challenge them. You can't do much less than that without excluding them entirely. I think giving them one boss is perfectly fair

Edited April 13, 2015 by Terro_Fett

[namesaretough]

Revan I might argue doesn't need a hard enrage though because there is no point in the revan fight where something isn't hurting you. Transition between floor one and two has the focuses that increasingly do more damage, and the 80 seconds before instant gib between floor two and three make sure you can't stall there. Floor three obviously has abs and the core which you can't survive forever on. Now that I think about it, why does revan need a enrage timer? All of his mechanics ensure there is a soft enrage that you can't just sit around and wait for/ All the other nine bosses make sense, but not really on revan.

 

On the same token, there's not really a reason why not to have a hard enrage on revan, seeing as you can't stall anywhere in the fight (maybe second floor before revan comes) anyway, you're already on a predetermined time between each floor.

The need for a hard enrage is tied to the auto-group rez when someone finishes the floor 2-3 jump. Without a hard enrage you could make floor 1/2 take as long as you wanted because you lost 1-4 dps and you would just have them all back at the start of floor 3. You either need an enrage or you need to do away with the mass rez.

 

WTB hard enrage on the full Coratanni fight, btw. Being able to sit around between phases to regen is a shame.

[FerkWork]

The need for a hard enrage is tied to the auto-group rez when someone finishes the floor 2-3 jump. Without a hard enrage you could make floor 1/2 take as long as you wanted because you lost 1-4 dps and you would just have them all back at the start of floor 3. You either need an enrage or you need to do away with the mass rez.

 

WTB hard enrage on the full Coratanni fight, btw. Being able to sit around between phases to regen is a shame.

 

Lack of Hard Enrage tied to both fights might be a game limitation as the change is one of areas as you get a load screen when you click which might mess things up. Also, it would add an element of RNG as the group that could load the fastest would have the advantage especially if on the other hand a group has several players still loading in (a 15 second loss in DPS in the most extreme cases). By the time I usually load my screen and can resume fighting at least 7 seconds have passed.

 

I agree on the healing though. One idea I have is that you have to leave the ship in a small amount of time before it explodes (5-7 seconds)

Edited April 13, 2015 by FerkWork

[namesaretough]

Lack of Hard Enrage tied to both fights might be a game limitation as the change is one of areas as you get a load screen when you click which might mess things up. Also, it would add an element of RNG as the group that could load the fastest would have the advantage especially if on the other hand a group has several players still loading in (a 15 second loss in DPS in the most extreme cases). By the time I usually load my screen and can resume fighting at least 7 seconds have passed.

 

It doesn't have to be particularly strict, an 11-12min one would be fine. Either that or a soft enrage encouraging leaving Cora's room after both bosses are dead is needed for nightmare, though. Sitting around for 8+min to combat rez group members is an issue.

[FerkWork]

It doesn't have to be particularly strict, an 11-12min one would be fine. Either that or a soft enrage encouraging leaving Cora's room after both bosses are dead is needed for nightmare, though. Sitting around for 8+min to combat rez group members is an issue.

 

The soft enrage would be fine. I edited my response with my idea while we were both typing.

Edited April 13, 2015 by FerkWork

[vdbswong]

It doesn't have to be particularly strict, an 11-12min one would be fine. Either that or a soft enrage encouraging leaving Cora's room after both bosses are dead is needed for nightmare, though. Sitting around for 8+min to combat rez group members is an issue.

 

Just have Cannon Barrage come back during the transition .

[TACeMossie]

Just have Cannon Barrage come back during the transition .

 

Nah, what should happen is 30 secs after cora flees, her ship should explode. Who cares if bird is still around, just it will make the fight more interesting cause it wont be a 100-0 burn on the bird - more of a 20-30% HP remaining burn if you want to avoid dying

[judgeender]

In my opinion, every fight should have a hard enrage, to avoid things like taking all tanks and heals, using some exploit on the fight that lets you drag the fight on for an extended period or simply standing around waiting for cooldowns to come back (like between Coratanni and Ruggar). However, I believe that in most cases, these hard enrages should not been seen by players doing the fight correctly/without excess delay. Basically, they should be longer than the fight should reasonably take. I don't have a problem with an occasional hard-enrage to require a dps check, but this really shouldn't be more than once an instance. Fights aren't fun when they are a fight against an artificial clock.

 

Having said that, I much prefer soft enrages where the mechanics of the fight basically create an enrage that will wipe the group if it isn't quick enough. This method is much preferred because it makes more sense in a fight than the boss simply enraging and wiping the group instantly. This type of mechanic also can often mean that a sloppy group will face the "enrage" well before a group that has perfected the mechanics.

 

By way of example, the Dread Guards in NiM TFB had a hard enrage. After a certain time, they simply enraged, and the boss ran around at super speed killing people. However, a soft enrage could have accomplished the same thing (though some timing/health type changes may have been needed). In the final phase, red circles spawned and they basically meant death if someone stood in them. For some reason, the fight was designed with a cap on the number of those circles that could exist. A soft-enrage could have been based on an unlimited number of circles (i.e. they keep spawning) that never disappear (and perhaps even continuing growing in size indefinitely). This would mean that the players slowly lose space to work with in the room. If they are sloppy with placement, they basically create their own death sooner. The better a group is at this mechanic, the more time they buy for themselves. Both a hard-enrage and soft-enrage result in the same thing, an effective limit on time to kill the boss, but one feels very arbitrary where as the other feels like its part of the fight.

 

In short, hard enrages should exist, but shouldn't be seen often as they should be in place to prevent exploits or really bad group compositions. Soft enrages can accomplish the same thing, but don't feel like an arbitrary end point (even though the time may be the same).