Tutorial issue

[StrixHiraeth]

I´m not defending him. I was pointing out that argument "I played more matches than you, bow before me and obey my commands" is not the the best in some cases.

 

No one said that. But the OP is insisting that there is a paygate despite several veteran pilots saying it isn't true. I also get the impression that you're defending the OP.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Ymris

[Angevord]

Ymris:

 

"The full game mode is playable from level 1, for free. If you're not patient enough to progress your character, that's your issue."

 

It doesn`t change a fact, that You can make progress much faster, and less painful, if You have sub and cash. GS is forcing just this way - because as newbe - without even basic training - You are fighting into naked ship vs. veterans and players who are paying for faster progress because they`re not patient enough. They will win a match, not You.

 

BTW - my point of view is different than Yours. I`m not a veteran, but "cannon fodder".

Edited April 8, 2015 by Angevord

[Bolo_Yeung]

Well...

 

The equipment cap is unaffected by payement. You will get the same gear at the end, regardless of being f2p or sub.

There are no bonuses for p2p players except the progress speed. No damage bonus, no speed bonus etc.

The only difference isspeed of progress - P2P players go 50% faster, excluding daily/weekly rewards that have the same value regardless of sub status.

 

So, while it will take longer, f2p player can become an ace pilot as well.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Bolo_Yeung

[Danalon]

Well...

 

The equipment cap is unaffected by payement. You will get the same gear at the end, regardless of being f2p or sub.

There are no bonuses for p2p players except the progress speed. No damage bonus, no speed bonus etc.

The only difference isspeed of progress - P2P players go 50% faster, excluding daily/weekly rewards that have the same value regardless of sub status.

 

So, while it will take longer, f2p player can become an ace pilot as well.

 

There are actually CC items (no idea what they're called) that grant you the 50% additional requisition. They're tradeable via GTN.

[Bolo_Yeung]

There are actually CC items (no idea what they're called) that grant you the 50% additional requisition. They're tradeable via GTN.

 

Starfighter passes - but they won't do anything for subscriber, just increase f2p/preferred to subscriber level.

Also, I forgot to add - CM versions of ships have 10% increase fo reqs gathered, because those ships are considered already 'mastered'.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Bolo_Yeung

[Danalon]

Starfighter passes - but they won't do anything for subscriber, just increase f2p/preferred to subscriber level.

Also, I forgot to add - CM versions of ships have 10% increase fo reqs gathered, because those ships are considered already 'mastered'.

 

Having the 10% requisition bonus from the beginning gives you a total bonus of around 14.6k ship requisition until you reached the 160k-ish requisition needed to fully upgrade the components of your choice.

 

Edit: 160,500 is the amount you need to spend on a new ship if you had to replace every component and upgrade it. 1/11 of this is 14,591 which equals the maximum bonus you can get until a normal version of that ship with the same build would be mastered too. The actual bonus is lower because of commendations and because you won't have to replace every component. In other words, depending on how good someone is, he might save 8-15 played games until his preferred build is fully upgraded.

 

Edit2: Obviously you "save" 5000 fleet requisition when buying the ship, equal to around 15-25 games depending on how good you are. This probably has more impact on the upgrade status of your hangar than the 10% ship requisition bonus.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Danalon

[Ramalina]

- let`s take 2 friends - they have same amount of time, same skills and both playing only GS - one Empire, second Republic but one has cash and sub, second playing as F2P

 

- if they meet into battle after even 1 week, player (F2P) be "cannon fodder" with his barely upgraded scout ship

 

Only if the F2P friend has no clue how earning requisition in GSF works and hasn't learned anything about flying during that week.

 

If they find and complete the introduction to GSF quest, which you do have to discover on your own because there aren't any good pointers to it in the GSF hangar interface, then by the second game of GSF that they ever play both can already have whichever ship type they want.

 

Ship choice is not gated behind anything but time played. How much time? Well however much time it takes you to get to the Fleet station and find the quest at the PvP terminal plus about 8-15 minutes to play your first game, turn in the quest, and then open up the hangar and purchase the ship you wanted. It won't get you all ships, but it will get you any ship.

 

Subscribers do get a modest increase in requisition earnings, which as has been pointed out is available on the Cartel Market and hence can be purchased on the GTN for regular credits if you let people with CCs know that there's a demand for the GSF pass, so it's available to F2P players too if they care enough to get it.

 

Even without the bonus requisition, by the time the subscriber masters their ship the F2P player is only going to be a few final tier upgrades behind, and if they knew what they were doing when they spent their requisition those will be the final tier upgrades that have very little effect on ship performance.

 

If GSF is supposed to be pay-to-win then it's one of the least effective designs for extracting money from the customer that the gaming industry has ever seen. They seriously might be doing better with a link to Paypal labeled, "buy the devs a cup of coffee." In order for a freeware to payware model to work on any basis other than, "take pity on the poor starving developers and send them some grocery money," the payware version has to offer significantly greater functionality to the paying user, and GSF does not do this.

 

GSF does not offer a very friendly initial experience to a random person logging in to play for the first time. This isn't a matter of inherently unfair design though, it's a matter of assumptions about knowledge that the core audience is expected to have before seeing GSF.

 

Things like: the ability to do math at a 7th to 8th grade level or better, some familiarity with typical role-playing-game mechanics (tabletop, electronic, or both), the ability and inclination to read component tooltips, the ability to enter, "GSF," and, "SWTOR," into a browser search bar, and the ability to ask other players for help.

 

If you have those, then there's really not a significant handicap to being F2P. If you don't have those then even blowing $1000 on cartel coins isn't really going to do you much good in terms of gaining an advantage.

 

There's also the issue of previous experience with air/space combat sims, but GSF breaks so many of the rules of that genre that, "knowing how to fly," in the general sense is of very limited use in GSF.

 

It doesn`t change a fact, that You can make progress much faster, and less painful, if You have sub and cash. GS is forcing just this way - because as newbe - without even basic training - You are fighting into naked ship vs. veterans and players who are paying for faster progress because they`re not patient enough.

 

What we the veterans who understand the mechanics very well are telling you the newb who clearly does not understand all of the mechanics very well, is that your statement above is FALSE.

 

If you know the mechanics, you can optimize requisition earned as a F2P and reduce the advantage of a player that has paid to a negligible level.

 

The GSF introductory experience does very little to help a new player figure out how to achieve that optimization though.

 

You're conflating several real issues ( poor documentation, inadequate tutorial, your lack of skill in GSF) into one imaginary issue ( devs creating unfair pay-to-win game mechanics).

 

The good news is that the experienced players (even Verain when he's not in the middle of a rant) really are willing and able to help with learning GSF. Use /cjoin GSF, ask for help during a high traffic time of day (you can even look in the guide stickied on the forum for a list of players who have volunteered to help new players and get the names of people you can contact in game for help) and if possible make sure you have Mumble and TeamSpeak 3 installed on your computer (tutoring in voice is so much faster than tutoring by text).

 

We could probably stand to do a full-detail, "optimizing GSF requisition," type section for the guide, but I'm wall-of-texted out at the moment, and it does have the rudimentary basics.

[Angevord]

Ramalina:

 

"You're conflating several real issues ( poor documentation, inadequate tutorial, your lack of skill in GSF) into one imaginary issue ( devs creating unfair pay-to-win game mechanics)."

 

So, are "poor documentation" and "inadequate tutorial" only small mistake?. IMO - no - this is deliberate action. Casual players, newbies like me - who are trown into battle - have only one role in this "RPG" - to be "easy targets". Nobody likes that role, and it is hardly surprising that some will pay for less painful progress. BTW - I had many matches like that vs. veterans and well upgraded gunships and bombers. Was trying to do something, but what You can do, if Your team contains only rookies the same like You. And this is not fun, fair match, this is an experience which is forcing many players to pay for "mastered ships" or whatever - what will bring more fun. And please dont tell me, that this is fair and honest gameplay - because You can even read on chat during battle what people write and how angry they are. I don`t want to be an ace, veteran or whatever - just only would like to fly a bit, and play some matches - but kinda fair. There are such many player`s ideas how to improve it, how to change it - but it means nothing, and never be used by BW/EA because there is only one goal - "cash".

 

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Edited April 8, 2015 by Angevord

[StrixHiraeth]

Casual players, newbies like me - who are trown into battle - have only one role in this "RPG" - to be "easy targets".

 

That's wrong, end of story. You're starting to seem like a troll now.

[Karaiblis]

Then save up your coins and buy a mastered ship if you really believe that ridiculous claim, they were even just on sale.

 

Then come here and cry because you paid money and you aren't any better at all because spending CC doesn't help

 

Then instead of saying something completely wrong like "they make you spend money to win, no fair" your cries will change to "I payed money and it doesn't help at all, BW cheated me out of my money, no fair"

[Angevord]

and you aren't any better at all"

 

Please, read maybe before You will write something. I`ve already explained everything in previous posts (since first one) and dont want to repeat again. BTW - this is not about only me but about entire GS gameplay. And this is EOT. Feel free to insult me, call "troll", "crying kid" or whatever. I didnt attack anyone here personally, just only shared first impression - and point of view.

 

Regards

Edited April 8, 2015 by Angevord

[caederon]

...it means nothing, and never be used by BW/EA because there is only one goal - "cash".

Your argument has been refuted very effectively. The only barrier to you performing better in GSF is commitment of time and willingness to seek out the help of others. You do not need to buy anything that can't be obtained very easily with in-game currency (fleet and ship requisition) to be an effective and successful player in GSF. If you do not know what to spend your requisition on, ask people or read this forum.

 

The only barrier to people being successful in GSF is overcoming stubbornness, pride, and intellectual laziness.

 

Ask veterans for advice and group with them. Follow their advice. Watch Drakolich's videos and stream. Watch other GSF videos, there are lots out there. Seek, and ye shall find.

 

- Despon

[Ryuku-sama]

Nah... You're wrong. The progress is so fast in this game I deliberately chose to not do my dailies because once I get every ship, I kinda feel cheated out of my leveling every single time. I fly my ship, do the weekly and convert it to unlock a new ship or a 10-15k upgrade and grind the remaining the hard way.

My current main (Nämëlëss on Jedi Covenant) is flying his Blackbolt. I never used TT or upgraded pods right now. Sabo Probe and EMP field are among the weakest weapons in the game. First because they don't fovarize the Blackbolt hit'n'run playstyle at all. They favorize a stay and fight playstyle. My KDR on this ship is over 3 and will jump over 5 once I stop playing around without any killing power and get Pods, StE and TT.

My previous main (Kee-Chokk on JC) was flying Quell, Rycer, Gladiator and Imperium. I have a KDR between 3.5 and 4.5 on every strike (arguably the weakest class). My Rycer is still almost stock (T4 HLC and T2 Retro, T3 Large Reactor and Regen Thruster, everything else stock) and have 4.32 KDR.

 

Between. The Blackbolt is considered weak by every non-ace player simply because it is squishy. Aces consider the Blackbolt as a poor man Sting. Only a few actually use the StE Blackbolt effectively.

[Ardaneb]

Everyone posting agrees that new players do not have a fair chance against established veterans, the learning curve for GSF is steep, and the tutorial needs improvement. It is the great weakness of GSF. Essentially all of us want to improve that problem. The real question is how we can improve the tutorial given the limited resources. Solid answers have been presented in other threads.

 

Extrapolating developer motives and engaging in a pay-to-advance is pay-to-win debate are only going to interfere with that goal. It will do nothing to help new players who really would benefit from a better tutorial.

[Binthurmung]

i WISH i could pay to get better at this game LOL. cant pay CC to learn how to hit the space bar and evade someones lasers flyin at your cornhole last time i checked. IMO the GSF minigame is the LEAST "cash-grabby" thing IN this game. IMO like i said.

[StrixHiraeth]

In the spirit of scientific investigation, I bought $20 worth of cartel coins and used them to convert an alt's ship requisition from unused ships to fleet requisition. Then I used that fleet requisition to upgrade my favorite ships to fly (Jurgoran, Sting, and Bloodmark). I have concluded that my $20 got me perhaps a few days or a week ahead, progression-wise. It did make a pretty significant difference in those ships, and those who are willing to spend cartel coins will "level" their ships quite a bit faster than those who don't.

 

However, time is the great equalizer--after a few weeks, those who didn't spend coins will catch up with those who did. Additionally, most of the ace pilots have all of the upgrades they are interested in and therefore gain no advantage whatsoever from cartel coins. So by no means is Galactic Starfighter pay-to-win or a cash grab. You get better by playing the game, and there's nothing but paint jobs and laser/thruster colors you can't get by playing the game. Even those can be bought for credits off the cartel market.

 

OP, you continue to insist that:

 

1) The tutorial isn't good enough.

2) New players are too weak in comparison to veteran pilots

3) Galactic Starfighter is little more than a cash grab.

 

No one is arguing with 1). Though I will say that actual matches are more effective learning tools than any tutorial could be. 2) and 3) have been refuted, and suggestions have been made which you blatantly ignore. Players who are starting out in PvP are always at a disadvantage; this is true of all MMO's. If you think all players should be even whether new or not, you might be better off in a different style of game (Call of Duty for example).

 

Your behavior is, at best, trollish; at worst, it is misinformative and deterring to new pilots perusing the forums.

 

If you aren't willing to consider points of view other than your own, then it is pointless for you to invite discussion (posting on discussion forums is inviting discussion).

 

In light of the above, I request that this thread be locked by a forum representative. Failing that, it's time for the thread to die. You've wasted enough of our time, OP.

 

To any new pilots who happen upon this thread, I say: the OP got the wrong impression, don't listen to him.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ymris

[Drakkolich]

However, time is the great equalizer--after a few weeks, those who didn't spend coins will catch up with those who did.

 

I really think you should say "after so many games" instead of weeks. It really depends on how much you are willing to play. It just sounds so wierd to me that it takes you weeks to earn 60000 requisition.

 

If you average a win/loss of 50% and aren't subbed you probably average about 500 requisition per match?

Assuming that 60000 requisition would be 120 games. That's not even counting you get 500 free on every ship every day and 750 free on every ship every day if you do the dailies.

 

On most servers I've played you can play 3-4 games per hour. Assuming only 3 games per hour, this is only 40 hours of playing to get 20$ worth of ship requisition.

 

(Like I said those 40 hours aren't including dailies at in that equation, you can even increase it dramatically by buying a starfighter pass with credits)

 

 

If you only did the daily every day to gain that 60000 on one ship, heres what would happen.

You would play 1-2 games and gain about 1500 requisition + 937 from the daily.

From doing that you would gain 3125 from the weekly which divided by 7 is 445.

So 1500+937+445=2882 per day all for just playing 1-2 games. 60000 divided by 2882 is just under 21 days.

 

So if you mean to gain 60000 requisition without spending a dime and only playing the daily every day, yes it would take 3 weeks.

[StrixHiraeth]

I really think you should say "after so many games" instead of weeks. It really depends on how much you are willing to play. It just sounds so wierd to me that it takes you weeks to earn 60000 requisition.

 

If you average a win/loss of 50% and aren't subbed you probably average about 500 requisition per match?

Assuming that 60000 requisition would be 120 games. That's not even counting you get 500 free on every ship every day and 750 free on every ship every day if you do the dailies.

 

On most servers I've played you can play 3-4 games per hour. Assuming only 3 games per hour, this is only 40 hours of playing to get 20$ worth of ship requisition.

 

(Like I said those 40 hours aren't including dailies at in that equation, you can even increase it dramatically by buying a starfighter pass with credits)

 

 

If you only did the daily every day to gain that 60000 on one ship, heres what would happen.

You would play 1-2 games and gain about 1500 requisition + 937 from the daily.

From doing that you would gain 3125 from the weekly which divided by 7 is 445.

So 1500+937+445=2882 per day all for just playing 1-2 games. 60000 divided by 2882 is just under 21 days.

 

So if you mean to gain 60000 requisition without spending a dime and only playing the daily every day, yes it would take 3 weeks.

 

Okay, then. Eventually everyone will be at the same level of upgrades. Eventually.

 

Yeah, it takes me weeks to get 60k requisition to spend on a single ship. Probably 2 weeks, give or take. Dunno. That $20 I spent seem to give me about a week's worth of progress. I assume that most SWTOR players play less GSF less than I do. I think your estimate for those who just play enough games to do the daily/weekly is probably about right.

 

Gonna have to inspect my ship engines, I must be leaking requisition somewhere.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ymris

[Linuxizer]

So, are "poor documentation" and "inadequate tutorial" only small mistake?. IMO - no - this is deliberate action. Casual players, newbies like me - who are trown into battle - have only one role in this "RPG" - to be "easy targets". Nobody likes that role, and it is hardly surprising that some will pay for less painful progress.

...

there is only one goal - "cash".

 

Experienced players will beat new players, largely because of skill accumulated through experience. The range of skill levels shows the depth of the game. If you do not believe experienced players will perform well in unupgraded ships, see this thread and this thread. There is also a Stock Night this Saturday is very timely.

 

GSF is extremely unforgiving to new players. Everybody agrees with this. But if you have played many matches, you should have had some favorable matchups against weaker teams, otherwise you may be on one of the less balanced servers, and you may want to try the opposite faction or a different server.

 

EA is a publicly-traded company and cash is definitely their goal! EA will make money by making a good game. Or do you believe they have a masterplan to punish all new players? And then these new players will give them money? And if you think the 50% requisition bonus in GSF is a cash-grab, then the 12x XP event must have been armed robbery!