Marauder PvP Tips

[qwopicus]

I hear a lot of people exaggerating the difficulties to be had with playing marauders in PvP. While they are certainly challenging, they aren't the useless punching bags that many claim. Here are the strategies I've used to both have fun, and carry my team with my marauder:

 

Predation is love, predation is life.

 

If you are using berzerk, you're doing it wrong. If you aren't using unbound, you're doing it wrong. Predation, with that utility, makes us go from the most easily kited class to one of the most difficult. You'll stick to your targets like cheeto dust to a neckbeard.

 

 

No, seriously, stop using berzerk.

 

It cannot be overstated how idiotic it is. The only time berzark should ever be used is when you know that the target has no gap opener or kiting tools off cooldown, there is no danger of more enemies entering the fray, and your team doesn't need more mobility. The more knowledgable among you may recognize that this situation occurs exactly zero times in most PvP matches.

 

 

You are a team player.

 

Marauder is not a lone wolf class. If you go alone to grab that off node, or even worse guard your own, you'll get beaten like a redheaded stepchild. Stick with the mob. This also applies to predation: frenzy+predation at the beginning of a match gives your entire team a massive advantage in getting an early position at mid, getting to the voidstar doors before they're expected, or grabbing an easy huttball score. Just don't be the guy in my last match who used it in spawn in Alderaan Civil War, where it wore off before we got off the speeders.

 

 

If you're pugging, play carnage.

 

Carnage is the spec least dependent on berzerk to deal proper damage, and as you've seen: berzerk is bad, and you should feel bad if you use it. Additionally, like fury, it can execute a full burst phase from 10m. (Gore ->Devastating blast -> Vicious throw). Fury does well if there's another marauder on your team, or the enemies are brain dead (note: more brain dead than usual). And those are the only two marauder specs, I can't think of another one that we could play in PvP.

 

 

Your DCDs are precious.

 

Marauder DCDs are closer to assassins than juggernauts in application. They should be used as follows:

Saber Ward: Massive white damage incoming. Veng juggs, other marauders, marksman snipers, (arsenal mercs?) The F/T mitigation is good, but not that good.

Cloak of Pain: Your best DCD. Use it when you're going to move away from your healer, or the damage is a little too much to handle. 95% of enemies aren't smart enough to let it drop off you, so if you stay in combat you'll have 30 seconds of mitigation. This won't save you in that 3v1, but it buys you time and is versatile.

Obfuscate: Essentially a crappy, single target saber ward. Use it when a white damage burst phase approaches.

Undying Rage: Use it when multiple people are about to kick the piss out of you. 4 seconds is almost nothing, especially when sins get a functionally identical ability on a third of the cooldown. It will buy you time, or save you from huge hits.

Force Camo: Your second best DCD. The only thing that will save you if you're insane enough to play ranked. With Expunging camouflage and/or phantom, it gets even better. Use as a second gap closer, a way to sneak up on snipers, an aggro break, or a cleanse.

 

 

Be careful with CC.

 

In a match yesterday I saw a Jugg use intimidating roar, and then immediately a smash. I'm sure the five people he whitebarred were extremely thankful. Roar is not something that can be popped in the middle of a massive battle, either the target is already DoTted or one of the hundreds of brain dead juggs will leap to them immediately. Use it to prevent mobs of enemies from reaching an objective. Force choke is your hard stun, use it to take someone out of play and buy time for your team to catch up, or to get a free ravage off.

 

 

Know your enemy.

 

Each class poses a different challenge for a marauder. I'll be looking at the matchups in the context of a mob fight with carnage, because that's where and what you should be:

Mara: Be more skilled than them. With the excessive QQ I see, this shouldn't be hard.

Jugg: Most juggs are terrible, and you just have to watch their buff bar and react to their DCDs. Use roar if it won't be broken to negate their H2F. If they're good, run circles around them with predation and avoid their ravage. They'll get frustrated that a puny marauder is hurting them, so you can drag them out of the fray and into a group of friendlies where they'll be dropped quickly.

Sniper: Use force camo as your gap closer, and keep predation ready until when you're rooted. Most are marksman, so obfuscate will actually be useful. Saber ward is an option if you don't think you'll need it soon. Snipers are usually free kills to a decent marauder.

Operatives: They lack any good DCDs, so don't waste your burst during their roll and you should be able to handle them. Use cloak of pain to take the edge off their burst.

Sorcs: Oh boy. These guys' kiting ability is absurd, but with permanent 80% move speed you can lay the hurt on them. Stay at 10 meters to avoid bubble stun, and take a moment to sigh when they use their L2P H2F bubble of invincibility.

Sins: Another /sigh class, use force camo purge to get rid of their demolish and be sure to waste your force choke when they have deflection, a.k.a. "we're Bioware's favorite class" up. Another good cloak of pain candidate, as most sins are FoTM rerollers.

PTs: The burst is muy loco, do your best to end them in two rotations. If you can survive the gap between your 1st burst phase+force choke and your 2nd burst phase it should be an easy kill.

Mercs: These poor guys. I'd feel bad for how squishy they are, if they didn't pretend they weren't excellent in PvE. Dump their net just to spite them, another easy kill.

 

 

Utility Build:

Skillful-

Defensive Forms-Mandatory

Overwhelm- Also Mandatory

3rd point- Cloak or rage, inexorable, or maiming reach. This is largely personal preference and playstyle.

 

Masterful-

Defensive Roll- Very useful in AoE heavy mob fights that are common in regs

Phantom- Enhances Force camo as a ghetto combat stealth, and a gap closer. This point can also go into another 3rd point skill from before.

 

Heroic-

Unbound- Mandatory. You will suck if you don't use this.

Expunging Camo- Extremely useful. 45sec purge is not to be underestimated.

 

 

Hopefully this guide was a little helpful, or at least a little amusing.

Edited April 2, 2015 by qwopicus

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I hear a lot of people exaggerating the difficulties to be had with playing marauders in PvP. While they are certainly challenging, they aren't the useless punching bags that many claim. Here are the strategies I've used to both have fun, and carry my team with my marauder:

 

Predation is love, predation is life.

 

If you are using berzerk, you're doing it wrong. If you aren't using unbound, you're doing it wrong. Predation, with that utility, makes us go from the most easily kited class to one of the most difficult. You'll stick to your targets like cheeto dust to a neckbeard.

 

 

No, No, and more NO. Predation is not that useful, just no... Unbound is even MORE useless due to the fact that Undying and Relentless are NEEDED in order to stay alive in pressure situations in PvP!

 

 

No, seriously, stop using berzerk.

 

It cannot be overstated how idiotic it is. The only time berzark should ever be used is when you know that the target has no gap opener or kiting tools off cooldown, there is no danger of more enemies entering the fray, and your team doesn't need more mobility. The more knowledgable among you may recognize that this situation occurs exactly zero times in most PvP matches.

 

 

All 3 spec's Berserk is NEEDED to either DPS harder and put pressure on healers, or STAY ALIVE.

 

 

You are a team player.

 

Marauder is not a lone wolf class. If you go alone to grab that off node, or even worse guard your own, you'll get beaten like a redheaded stepchild. Stick with the mob. This also applies to predation: frenzy+predation at the beginning of a match gives your entire team a massive advantage in getting an early position at mid, getting to the voidstar doors before they're expected, or grabbing an easy huttball score. Just don't be the guy in my last match who used it in spawn in Alderaan Civil War, where it wore off before we got off the speeders.

 

 

This is about the only thing i can actually agree on with you, Predation at the beginning of the match, though I am guilty of using it to get to the node quickly in Hypergate.

 

If you're pugging, play carnage.

 

Carnage is the spec least dependent on berzerk to deal proper damage, and as you've seen: berzerk is bad, and you should feel bad if you use it. Additionally, like fury, it can execute a full burst phase from 10m. (Gore ->Devastating blast -> Vicious throw). Fury does well if there's another marauder on your team, or the enemies are brain dead (note: more brain dead than usual). And those are the only two marauder specs, I can't think of another one that we could play in PvP.

 

 

I used Anni in PvP for reg matches often before I got started in my Dark Reaver gear grind, it worked well when there was a decent healer, and those 9k Crit Annihilates were awesome, but Carnage is the PvP spec.

 

 

Your DCDs are precious.

 

Marauder DCDs are closer to assassins than juggernauts in application. They should be used as follows:

Saber Ward: Massive white damage incoming. Veng juggs, other marauders, marksman snipers, (arsenal mercs?) The F/T mitigation is good, but not that good.

Cloak of Pain: Your best DCD. Use it when you're going to move away from your healer, or the damage is a little too much to handle. 95% of enemies aren't smart enough to let it drop off you, so if you stay in combat you'll have 30 seconds of mitigation. This won't save you in that 3v1, but it buys you time and is versatile.

Obfuscate: Essentially a crappy, single target saber ward. Use it when a white damage burst phase approaches.

Undying Rage: Use it when multiple people are about to kick the piss out of you. 4 seconds is almost nothing, especially when sins get a functionally identical ability on a third of the cooldown. It will buy you time, or save you from huge hits.

Force Camo: Your second best DCD. The only thing that will save you if you're insane enough to play ranked. With Expunging camouflage and/or phantom, it gets even better. Use as a second gap closer, a way to sneak up on snipers, an aggro break, or a cleanse.

 

 

I'll give my 2$ on those.

 

Saber Ward: I'll agree on that one.

Cloak Of Pain: More like cloak of useless... 20% Damage Reduction is damn near placebo effect... If it was 35% and hit for like 2k ticks, it would be a perfect DCD.

Obfuscate: The most godly DCD in your arsenal next to Undying Rage, when that Veng Jugg is about to Ravage you, completely ignore his damage. If it was 50% overall accuracy, it would be even better.

Undying Rage: This DCD is GODLY if you know when to use it, you don't need any other Heroic Tier Utilities other than Relentless and Undying, these two are your bread and butter.

Force Camoflage: More like force uselessness. This thing doesn't do a gosh darn thing in PvP because the sheer amount of AOE in PvP...

 

 

 

Be careful with CC.

 

In a match yesterday I saw a Jugg use intimidating roar, and then immediately a smash. I'm sure the five people he whitebarred were extremely thankful. Roar is not something that can be popped in the middle of a massive battle, either the target is already DoTted or one of the hundreds of brain dead juggs will leap to them immediately. Use it to prevent mobs of enemies from reaching an objective. Force choke is your hard stun, use it to take someone out of play and buy time for your team to catch up, or to get a free ravage off.

 

 

You actually CC targets as a Marauder? Oh, because by the time you would have used a CC on a target, my target would have been DEAD.

 

 

Know your enemy.

 

Each class poses a different challenge for a marauder. I'll be looking at the matchups in the context of a mob fight with carnage, because that's where and what you should be:

Mara: Be more skilled than them. With the excessive QQ I see, this shouldn't be hard.

Jugg: Most juggs are terrible, and you just have to watch their buff bar and react to their DCDs. Use roar if it won't be broken to negate their H2F. If they're good, run circles around them with predation and avoid their ravage. They'll get frustrated that a puny marauder is hurting them, so you can drag them out of the fray and into a group of friendlies where they'll be dropped quickly.

Sniper: Use force camo as your gap closer, and keep predation ready until when you're rooted. Most are marksman, so obfuscate will actually be useful. Saber ward is an option if you don't think you'll need it soon. Snipers are usually free kills to a decent marauder.

Operatives: They lack any good DCDs, so don't waste your burst during their roll and you should be able to handle them. Use cloak of pain to take the edge off their burst.

Sorcs: Oh boy. These guys' kiting ability is absurd, but with permanent 80% move speed you can lay the hurt on them. Stay at 10 meters to avoid bubble stun, and take a moment to sigh when they use their L2P H2F bubble of invincibility.

Sins: Another /sigh class, use force camo purge to get rid of their demolish and be sure to waste your force choke when they have deflection, a.k.a. "we're Bioware's favorite class" up. Another good cloak of pain candidate, as most sins are FoTM rerollers.

PTs: The burst is muy loco, do your best to end them in two rotations. If you can survive the gap between your 1st burst phase+force choke and your 2nd burst phase it should be an easy kill.

Mercs: These poor guys. I'd feel bad for how squishy they are, if they didn't pretend they weren't excellent in PvE. Dump their net just to spite them, another easy kill.

 

 

Utility Build:

Skillful-

Defensive Forms-Mandatory

Overwhelm- Also Mandatory

3rd point- Cloak or rage, inexorable, or maiming reach. This is largely personal preference and playstyle.

 

Overwhelm is NOT mandatory, as your Ravage has quite the bit of reach when you start channeling it. I use Inextorable and Maiming Reach

 

Masterful-

Defensive Roll- Very useful in AoE heavy mob fights that are common in regs

Phantom- Enhances Force camo as a ghetto combat stealth, and a gap closer. This point can also go into another 3rd point skill from before.

 

No, and No. Interceptor and Displacment man. Interceptor neuters Sorc's Kiting, and Displacment is the bane of healers.

 

Heroic-

Unbound- Mandatory. You will suck if you don't use this.

Expunging Camo- Extremely useful. 45sec purge is not to be underestimated.

 

No and *********** NO. Expunging Camoflage is USELESS. and Unbound is the definition of COME KILL ME! Relentless and Undying if you want to stay alive in Regs, and Brooding with Undying for Ranked burst goodness.

 

 

Hopefully this guide was a little helpful, or at least a little amusing.

 

Read all of the bold ****.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[JackNader]

Decent guide. I don't agree with just about everything Kaos posted in bold.

[qwopicus]

I can't tell if you're serious or not. Show me a marauder who thinks predation is bad and I'll show you a serial scrub, who stays at the bottom of the leaderboards and doesn't help his team in any way. If you can't play carnage without berzerk you need to L2P.

 

I hope you're talking about ranked arenas when referencing undying rage. Because relying on a 6 second duration, 3 minute cooldown ability to do anything in regs aside from saving your *** once or twice a match is raw idiocy.

 

Force camo useless because it doesn't help against AoE? The 50% damage reduction might be useful, 80% if you stack defensive roll.

 

You must play naked players who spawn in at 30% health if you can kill them in one GCD, which is all it takes to CC them.

 

If you get a ravage off against a non-rooted target you play against the worst players in all of SWTOR. Inexorable and maiming reach are both good, as I mentioned.

 

If you take interceptor and maiming reach, you're doing it wrong. A 10m long duration snare AND healing debuff that costs 1 rage is better than that garbage talent. Displacement bane of healers? Are you high? It reduces accuracy, which does nothing to healers.

 

A 45second purge is very useful in a DoT heavy meta. And once again, I don't know how I can join the lobotomy server where you aren't slowed and rooted constantly, but I'd love if you gave me a key. If you're kited as a marauder, it's because you didn't take this utility and spam predation. I regularly kill lightning sorcs, the OP kiters themselves, with no issues. I really hope I'm being an oblivious idiot and you're trolling me.

 

@other person Decency is the father of legitimacy!

Edited April 2, 2015 by qwopicus

[Ld-Siris]

Predation is very useful with unbound, but shouldn't be spammed on "CD" as berserk is always the better choice.

 

I hate to break it to you, but force camo with expunge doesn't purge Player dots. It purges all cleansable effects. Dots are not cleansable. It would, however, have the potential to break CC IF we could use it during a CC, but we can't. Tho I take both phantom and expunge, because camo is an extremely good tool to both catch a target or get away from one. Hell, sometimes I use it just so I drop target from all those attacking me. And if you are say it's not good, because all the AOE, you do know that taking AOE damage does not take you out of it, right? Force camo is not stealth. Only you can break the camo early.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ld-Siris

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I can't tell if you're serious or not. Show me a marauder who thinks predation is bad and I'll show you a serial scrub, who stays at the bottom of the leaderboards and doesn't help his team in any way. If you can't play carnage without berzerk you need to L2P.

 

Carnage + Berserk is 90% of my kills, because the burst is so heavy, if the stars align (or i force them to align) I can hit a 14k Dev Blast, with a 12k Vicious Throw, which means whoever is my target is pretty close to toast. The only time i even think of Predation is when a match starts, then i never think of it again because the defence boost is mediocre at best due to the Force and DoT heavy meta, and the move speed boost is damn near useless for me due to the fact I run a slow heavy build with Interceptor and Maiming Reach. Also, I tend to get 12 - 15 medals on good matches and 9 - 12 on bad matches. Predation does not give Protection medals, so it does nothing to add to scoreboard values.

 

I hope you're talking about ranked arenas when referencing undying rage. Because relying on a 6 second duration, 3 minute cooldown ability to do anything in regs aside from saving your *** once or twice a match is raw idiocy.

 

I use a 6s 2m 30s CD Undying Rage.

 

Force camo useless because it doesn't help against AoE? The 50% damage reduction might be useful, 80% if you stack defensive roll.

 

Force Camo is useless due to the fact that the "purge" is not baseline.

 

You must play naked players who spawn in at 30% health if you can kill them in one GCD, which is all it takes to CC them.

 

I rarely if EVER CC a target on my Marauder and i've got around 5k kills in Reg matches. so... yea...

 

If you get a ravage off against a non-rooted target you play against the worst players in all of SWTOR. Inexorable and maiming reach are both good, as I mentioned.

 

I get plenty of Ravages off on non-rooted targets, sure they run away, but it still hurts them till about 15m.

 

If you take interceptor and maiming reach, you're doing it wrong. A 10m long duration snare AND healing debuff that costs 1 rage is better than that garbage talent. Displacement bane of healers? Are you high? It reduces accuracy, which does nothing to healers.

 

Oops, meant a different talent. the one that reduces the CD on the intterupt...

 

A 45second purge is very useful in a DoT heavy meta. And once again, I don't know how I can join the lobotomy server where you aren't slowed and rooted constantly, but I'd love if you gave me a key. If you're kited as a marauder, it's because you didn't take this utility and spam predation. I regularly kill lightning sorcs, the OP kiters themselves, with no issues. I really hope I'm being an oblivious idiot and you're trolling me.

 

Jesus Chist.. how many times do I have to tell people... EXPUNGING CAMOFLAGE DOES NOT REMOVE DOTS... It is simply a Movment Impairment remover. And I constantly kill Lightning Sorcs too, due to the fact that I use all of my move speed debuffs right. I play on The Harbinger, so that could mean something.

 

@other person Decency is the father of legitimacy!

 

Bold again.

 

Edit: I'm actually going to humble you and see how bad your little build is. Then, i'll screenshot the end results of the match, and then the end results of a match with my build, then compare.

 

Edit2: Well, nevermind, my printscreen button has decided to say F you i'm not going to work... But, rest asured, I did crappier with your build than I ever did with my build, due to the fact that you can't take 4 first tier utilities without sacrificing a 2nd or 3rd tier utility.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[JackNader]

Most of the marauders tools are situational. There is no perfect way to use anything.

 

For instance

 

Camo -

 

*Can be used as a gap closer

*Can be used to interrupt hard casted or channeled attacks

*Can be used as an escape and run or camo and sit on the same spot while your healer heals you up.

*Can be used defensively to mitgate the bulk of the damage done by Thermal detonator, Short duration DOT burst or the operative delayed internal damage burst.

 

Predation - It's not supposed to be spammed. It is supposed to be used wisely. In PvP it is far more beneficial than berserk. It buffs everyone on your team, increases survivability and gives you considerably more up time on targets. That translates directly into more damage. You only ever berserk when you know you can't be kited. ie. you have a pred up and your sitting at 30 stacks 10 seconds into it with a frenzy as backup on your bar. You are fighting a melee class, etc, etc.

[qwopicus]

My bad when I said force camo purged DoTs, I was confusing it with another ability. Still useful though, expunging camo wasn't one of the "mandatory" utilities I mentioned.

 

Bezerk doesn't change the power of your burst, just the speed. You merely get that 12k+14k combo 30% faster. It is not a game changer, merely an extra cherry on top. I think the entire issue is revealed when you say you don't use predation because it doesn't give medals: you're just a damage whore.

 

2 minutes 30 seconds is still nothing to rely on in regs. Hate to break it to you. You seem to have a lot of your ego invested in your build.

 

Number of kills doesn't matter, that's just a measure of how long you've played. Imagine how many more kills or wins you could have if you actually used CCs.

 

"It still hurts until 15m?" So you don't mind that the entire attack doesn't hit, and the enemy is completely outside of your range by the time it's done? I can't even.

 

Also yes, when I refer to predation "spam" I mean using it often, not using it whenever you see 30 on your buff bar. Berzerk is exceptionally situational in PvP. Damage means nothing when you can't get close enough to deal it.

Edited April 2, 2015 by qwopicus

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

My bad when I said force camo purged DoTs, I was confusing it with another ability. Still useful though, expunging camo wasn't one of the "mandatory" utilities I mentioned.

 

Bezerk doesn't change the power of your burst, just the speed. You merely get that 12k+14k combo 30% faster. It is not a game changer, merely an extra cherry on top. I think the entire issue is revealed when you say you don't use predation because it doesn't give medals: you're just a damage whore.

 

2 minutes 30 seconds is still nothing to rely on in regs. Hate to break it to you. You seem to have a lot of your ego invested in your build.

 

Number of kills doesn't matter, that's just a measure of how long you've played. Imagine how many more kills or wins you could have if you actually used CCs.

 

"It still hurts until 15m?" So you don't mind that the entire attack doesn't hit, and the enemy is completely outside of your range by the time it's done? I can't even.

 

Also yes, when I refer to predation "spam" I mean using it often, not using it whenever you see 30 on your buff bar. Berzerk is exceptionally situational in PvP. Damage means nothing when you can't get close enough to deal it.

 

Berserk absolutely boosts your burst power! (3% more damage IS a boost!) And Ravage will continue to channel till your target is around 15m away still ticking away with damage.

[qwopicus]

But being 15m away from your target with force charge on CD is a 100% damage loss.

 

I can't say anything to you, you've made up your mind. Please just leave the thread.

[Atlanis]

Best Tip: Reroll to another AC if you have any ambitions for Rated.

[Skettitangles]

I agree with the guys saying predation beats berserk for pvp effectiveness. With the heroic utility buff to predation you can definitely stay on your target longer and enjoy greater mobility and survivability in regs. If you're an exceptional marauder with good knowledge of other classes weaknesses you can also compete in the current ranked arenas as the leaderboards show. I'm not quite up to that standard yet myself but can say that with persistence and a willingness to adapt you can definitely be enjoying regular warzones on your marauder even without great healing on your team. The argument for prioritising berserk over predation in regs could only be the case if you are queueing with a healer imo

[rasputko]

Utility Build:

Skillful-

Defensive Forms-Mandatory

Overwhelm- Also Mandatory

3rd point- Cloak or rage, inexorable, or maiming reach. This is largely personal preference and playstyle.

 

Masterful-

Defensive Roll- Very useful in AoE heavy mob fights that are common in regs

Phantom- Enhances Force camo as a ghetto combat stealth, and a gap closer. This point can also go into another 3rd point skill from before.

 

Heroic-

Unbound- Mandatory. You will suck if you don't use this.

Expunging Camo- Extremely useful. 45sec purge is not to be underestimated.

 

 

Hopefully this guide was a little helpful, or at least a little amusing.

 

Nice guide.....too optimistic in some areas IMO.

I like your utility choices, i think it's a good start for any new Mara.

I would like to add a bit:

 

Skillful:

- 3rd point: Inexorable, with the amount of slows, roots, etc....having a full rage bar is nice

It fits nice with Unbound Heroic Utility.

 

Masterful:

- Phantom can be good. Masterful Utilities are very situational for Maras/Sents.

You don't want Interceptor Masterful Utility against classes that have their version

of Inexorable Utility (PT's, Juggs) . It's very bad because some of your rotational abilities

will make their resource management a joke.

ON THE OTHER HAND I find Interceptor quite useful against most other classes...

Same goes for Defensive Roll (30% AOE dmg redu.) & some other stuff ...very useful in some cases

and then quite the opposite in the next match.

You could even make a case for 4+1+2 in some situations.

[qwopicus]

Most of the "gain resource when X" don't include slows, only stuns/mezzes/knockbacks/roots. That said, 4+1+2 is oftentimes a great choice, as the Masterful talents can be pretty overwhelming.

 

Switching out expunging camo for another utility is something I've experimented with recently. I'm currently running:

 

Defensive Forms

Overwhelm

Inexorable

Maiming Reach

Defensive Roll

Phantom

Unbound

 

I'm finding the free resource a better move than the purge, along with the 10m slow/healing debuff (really useful to nuke sages). I find I have predation ready to break a root if I need to camo out.

 

Update: I've given Fury a shot and really loved it, even without the proposed changes! If you take "Inexorable" I feel that berzerk is no longer needed, putting it even with carnage. Because of obliterate, staying on target within 10m is easier, so maiming reach is not as useful. Going to experiment more as I go.

Edited April 6, 2015 by qwopicus

[rasputko]

Most of the "gain resource when X" don't include slows, only stuns/mezzes/knockbacks/roots. That said, 4+1+2 is oftentimes a great choice, as the Masterful talents can be pretty overwhelming.

 

Switching out expunging camo for another utility is something I've experimented with recently. I'm currently running:

 

Defensive Forms

Overwhelm

Inexorable

Maiming Reach

Defensive Roll

Phantom

Unbound

 

I'm finding the free resource a better move than the purge, along with the 10m slow/healing debuff (really useful to nuke sages). I find I have predation ready to break a root if I need to camo out.

 

Update: I've given Fury a shot and really loved it, even without the proposed changes! If you take "Inexorable" I feel that berzerk is no longer needed, putting it even with carnage. Because of obliterate, staying on target within 10m is easier, so maiming reach is not as useful. Going to experiment more as I go.

 

Yea, my bad; slows are not included....I still think that Inexorable is worth a point. Juggs & PT's have the same passive under Skillful U and I take them too. I played Anni Mara so for every Force Charge, Ravage or Force Choke a PT vents 10 heat and a Jugg/Mara gets 4 rage, that's unavoidable...not to mention all the other roots, stuns, mezzes

"Free" resources are always nice.

...and Interceptor utility has no negative effects related to Inexorable; it's still a bad utility (Interceptor) against PT's IMO

Haven't played Fury in 3.0. It's the least played PVP spec from my experience. Not really sure why; it does look

more potent than Carnage & with the upcoming changes (3.2)...

[qwopicus]

I think the reason you never see it is because most maras (who are still with the class despite Bioware's incalculable idiocy) are pretty savvy within the game, and they know that Rage juggs are identical, but with a much better defensive arsenal.

 

And yes, interceptor is a crappy utility. Besides unbound and occasionally expunging camo, we have awful heroic utilities. Minor cooldown changes? A short root? A small extension to an ability with a 3min CD? Out of combat only abilities? Minor self heals on a 3min CD? All check.

[Bruceme]

here is a good Marauder tip...hide until you get your full pvp set w/augs.

[Meheew_Tore]

Something that helps with surviving is Min-Maxing your gear. You'd be surprised how much better any class can do once you get your gear to 25% crit 74-75% surge and the rest into power

 

That being said do as I say not as I do because my marauder is basically running a full power alacrity set because I wanted to see what it did plus I find it hilarious that while in carnage with a Fatesealer relic I can get my alacrity up to 44% which goes really well with what I intended my marauder to be which was ludicrously fast :3

[KalElc]

I'm to lazy to give a input to this Thread. Edited April 9, 2015 by KalElc

[Saikochoro]

I snipped the stuff I didn't want to comment on

 

If you are using berzerk, you're doing it wrong. If you aren't using unbound, you're doing it wrong. Predation, with that utility, makes us go from the most easily kited class to one of the most difficult. You'll stick to your targets like cheeto dust to a neckbeard.

 

I agree that predation is very useful with unbound. It solves a lot of the mobility issues that can plague a mara, but berserk is not useless. All 3 mara specs use berserk to boost their damage, and they should use berserk. Sometimes you will have to decide what is more important: mobility or more damage. Sometimes predation takes priority and other times berserk does.

 

Marauder DCDs are closer to assassins than juggernauts in application. They should be used as follows:

Saber Ward: Massive white damage incoming. Veng juggs, other marauders, marksman snipers, (arsenal mercs?) The F/T mitigation is good, but not that good.

Agree. It is a good overall cooldown with emphasis on white damage.

 

Cloak of Pain: Your best DCD. Use it when you're going to move away from your healer, or the damage is a little too much to handle. 95% of enemies aren't smart enough to let it drop off you, so if you stay in combat you'll have 30 seconds of mitigation. This won't save you in that 3v1, but it buys you time and is versatile.

A very good cooldown because it offers a long term damage reduction as people keep attacking you, but I rate camo higher.

 

Obfuscate: Essentially a crappy, single target saber ward. Use it when a white damage burst phase approaches.

A very underrated cooldown IMO. Very good against white burst damage. I will use this before trying to use saber ward.

 

Undying Rage: Use it when multiple people are about to kick the piss out of you. 4 seconds is almost nothing, especially when sins get a functionally identical ability on a third of the cooldown. It will buy you time, or save you from huge hits.

Undying is better now that health cost is removed, but cooldown is too long. It is very useful in focus situatins. Sins do not have a functionally identical ability. If you are referring to shroud it does nothing against white damage. If you are referring to deflection is does nothing against yellow damage. They would have to use them both at the same time.

 

Force Camo: Your second best DCD. The only thing that will save you if you're insane enough to play ranked. With Expunging camouflage and/or phantom, it gets even better. Use as a second gap closer, a way to sneak up on snipers, an aggro break, or a cleanse.[

This is the best DCD of maras IMO. Short enough cooldown to be used often. Great in focus situations. It can be used as a gap closer, but I usually try to run around LOS objects to get to a ranged toon instead. It gets you out of the fight and give you damage reduction for that TD that is still attached to you.

 

Each class poses a different challenge for a marauder. I'll be looking at the matchups in the context of a mob fight with carnage, because that's where and what you should be:

Mara: Be more skilled than them. With the excessive QQ I see, this shouldn't be hard.

Pretty much

 

Jugg: Most juggs are terrible, and you just have to watch their buff bar and react to their DCDs. Use roar if it won't be broken to negate their H2F. If they're good, run circles around them with predation and avoid their ravage. They'll get frustrated that a puny marauder is hurting them, so you can drag them out of the fray and into a group of friendlies where they'll be dropped quickly.

If they are equally skilled they will give you a hard time. They have good yellow and good white damage mitigation and they can still hit hard. If they are less skilled or being focused by others the mara will win.

 

Sniper: Use force camo as your gap closer, and keep predation ready until when you're rooted. Most are marksman, so obfuscate will actually be useful. Saber ward is an option if you don't think you'll need it soon. Snipers are usually free kills to a decent marauder.

I have to completely disagree with your last sentence in this one. I can't remember the last time a marauder killed my sniper unless my sniper was already below 20% health and had no cooldowns. Snipers are more dangerous to maras than most classes. Sure you have saber ward, but a sniper can keep you at bay even with unbound. If you are lucky enough to get to them and use obsfucate it won't do you much good as I won't waste an ambush on it. If I'm casting ambush and you disappear I will cancel the cast. Sometimes I will cast it to get you to use camo so I don't worry about it later. If you happen to reach me I knock you back. If you happen to reach me again I will roll away and root you. Not to mention knockback and possible snare on penetrating blasts. If for some reason I think it will be fun to face tank you I can use evasion/shield probe/cc to play with you. No sniper of equal skill to the marauder should lose to a marauder.

 

Try to run around LOS objects as your gap closer. If they are in a mob wait till they focus on someone else. Obsfucate and saberward are good against snipers that is true. Big lesson is don't get caught in the open by a sniper and don't try to 1v1 them.

 

Operatives: They lack any good DCDs, so don't waste your burst during their roll and you should be able to handle them. Use cloak of pain to take the edge off their burst.

Operatives are another class that suited well to killing marauders. If you find yourself in a 1v1 with them you most likely will lose. If in a mob you begin fighting one then you have a better chance. I use ravage as a feint on them. Ravage will force them to use a cooldown or cc as they aren't going to just eat it. Once they use evasion (which is probably what they will use) I can proceed to gore + devastating blast + vicious throw without worrying about vicious throw being mitigated. Most dps ops are concealment so they can roll through your burst. They also have more rooting options than maras do. Many of them will stay on the outskirts of mobs, but if you find them in a mob then they are easier to kill.

 

Lesson don't get caught in the open by an operative. Also don't try to 1v1 an operative unless you know that you are better than them.

 

Sorcs: Oh boy. These guys' kiting ability is absurd, but with permanent 80% move speed you can lay the hurt on them. Stay at 10 meters to avoid bubble stun, and take a moment to sigh when they use their L2P H2F bubble of invincibility.

Predation with unbound does help the encounters with sorcs. Don't just leap straight in save it to use after they create distance.

 

Sins: Another /sigh class, use force camo purge to get rid of their demolish and be sure to waste your force choke when they have deflection, a.k.a. "we're Bioware's favorite class" up. Another good cloak of pain candidate, as most sins are FoTM rerollers.

Camo will not purge dots, but since demolish is a relatively short, hard ticking dot the damage reduction of camo will help. You are better off keeping up cloak of pain though. Obsfucate works well as they won't be able to proc demolish or use their burst moves with the accuracy debuff. Saber ward works as well. Don't think that them popping shroud means you have to bide your time as the only thing it prevents is devastating blast/raging burst/dots. Deflection is actually more annoying than shroud is against a mara.

 

PTs: The burst is muy loco, do your best to end them in two rotations. If you can survive the gap between your 1st burst phase+force choke and your 2nd burst phase it should be an easy kill.

PTs are a pain. Obsfucate is again worth while to mitigate rail shot. Choke them when they pop hydraulics.

 

Mercs: These poor guys. I'd feel bad for how squishy they are, if they didn't pretend they weren't excellent in PvE. Dump their net just to spite them, another easy kill.

IMO mercs are the only ones I would consider easier kills for maras.

 

 

Utility Build:

Skillful-

Defensive Forms-Mandatory

Overwhelm- Also Mandatory

3rd point- Cloak or rage, inexorable, or maiming reach. This is largely personal preference and playstyle.

Agree. In addition to the first two I usually take inexorable as the constant roots/knockbacks/cc help me maintain a lot of rage. Lowering cooldown on unleash is also useful.

 

Masterful-

Defensive Roll- Very useful in AoE heavy mob fights that are common in regs

Phantom- Enhances Force camo as a ghetto combat stealth, and a gap closer. This point can also go into another 3rd point skill from before.

I usually use those as well.

 

Heroic-

Unbound- Mandatory. You will suck if you don't use this.

Expunging Camo- Extremely useful. 45sec purge is not to be underestimated.

I also often use these as well. Though it needs to be noted that expunging camo does not purge dots, but rather cleansable affects. So, basically you will be free of roots and snares upon using camo. It makes it better for getting away.

 

Hopefully this guide was a little helpful, or at least a little amusing.

 

Comments in red. Agreed with a lot of stuff. Have a different opinion on some stuff as well.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Saikochoro

[waterboytkd]

Good tips. Agreed with most/all of it.

 

I take Inexorable, because rage is good. Plus, faster CC break is nice.

 

I actually don't hate Interceptor, either. It seems piddly, but if we're forced to start our burst from further than 4m away, it helps us get on target to land a massacre as our 3rd attack in the Gore window.

[steveerkcanjerk]

I hear a lot of people exaggerating the difficulties to be had with playing marauders in PvP. While they are certainly challenging, they aren't the useless punching bags that many claim. Here are the strategies I've used to both have fun, and carry my team with my marauder:

 

Predation is love, predation is life.

 

If you are using berzerk, you're doing it wrong. If you aren't using unbound, you're doing it wrong. Predation, with that utility, makes us go from the most easily kited class to one of the most difficult. You'll stick to your targets like cheeto dust to a neckbeard.

 

 

No, seriously, stop using berzerk.

 

It cannot be overstated how idiotic it is. The only time berzark should ever be used is when you know that the target has no gap opener or kiting tools off cooldown, there is no danger of more enemies entering the fray, and your team doesn't need more mobility. The more knowledgable among you may recognize that this situation occurs exactly zero times in most PvP matches.

 

 

You are a team player.

 

Marauder is not a lone wolf class. If you go alone to grab that off node, or even worse guard your own, you'll get beaten like a redheaded stepchild. Stick with the mob. This also applies to predation: frenzy+predation at the beginning of a match gives your entire team a massive advantage in getting an early position at mid, getting to the voidstar doors before they're expected, or grabbing an easy huttball score. Just don't be the guy in my last match who used it in spawn in Alderaan Civil War, where it wore off before we got off the speeders.

 

 

If you're pugging, play carnage.

 

Carnage is the spec least dependent on berzerk to deal proper damage, and as you've seen: berzerk is bad, and you should feel bad if you use it. Additionally, like fury, it can execute a full burst phase from 10m. (Gore ->Devastating blast -> Vicious throw). Fury does well if there's another marauder on your team, or the enemies are brain dead (note: more brain dead than usual). And those are the only two marauder specs, I can't think of another one that we could play in PvP.

 

 

Your DCDs are precious.

 

Marauder DCDs are closer to assassins than juggernauts in application. They should be used as follows:

Saber Ward: Massive white damage incoming. Veng juggs, other marauders, marksman snipers, (arsenal mercs?) The F/T mitigation is good, but not that good.

Cloak of Pain: Your best DCD. Use it when you're going to move away from your healer, or the damage is a little too much to handle. 95% of enemies aren't smart enough to let it drop off you, so if you stay in combat you'll have 30 seconds of mitigation. This won't save you in that 3v1, but it buys you time and is versatile.

Obfuscate: Essentially a crappy, single target saber ward. Use it when a white damage burst phase approaches.

Undying Rage: Use it when multiple people are about to kick the piss out of you. 4 seconds is almost nothing, especially when sins get a functionally identical ability on a third of the cooldown. It will buy you time, or save you from huge hits.

Force Camo: Your second best DCD. The only thing that will save you if you're insane enough to play ranked. With Expunging camouflage and/or phantom, it gets even better. Use as a second gap closer, a way to sneak up on snipers, an aggro break, or a cleanse.

 

 

Be careful with CC.

 

In a match yesterday I saw a Jugg use intimidating roar, and then immediately a smash. I'm sure the five people he whitebarred were extremely thankful. Roar is not something that can be popped in the middle of a massive battle, either the target is already DoTted or one of the hundreds of brain dead juggs will leap to them immediately. Use it to prevent mobs of enemies from reaching an objective. Force choke is your hard stun, use it to take someone out of play and buy time for your team to catch up, or to get a free ravage off.

 

 

Know your enemy.

 

Each class poses a different challenge for a marauder. I'll be looking at the matchups in the context of a mob fight with carnage, because that's where and what you should be:

Mara: Be more skilled than them. With the excessive QQ I see, this shouldn't be hard.

Jugg: Most juggs are terrible, and you just have to watch their buff bar and react to their DCDs. Use roar if it won't be broken to negate their H2F. If they're good, run circles around them with predation and avoid their ravage. They'll get frustrated that a puny marauder is hurting them, so you can drag them out of the fray and into a group of friendlies where they'll be dropped quickly.

Sniper: Use force camo as your gap closer, and keep predation ready until when you're rooted. Most are marksman, so obfuscate will actually be useful. Saber ward is an option if you don't think you'll need it soon. Snipers are usually free kills to a decent marauder.

Operatives: They lack any good DCDs, so don't waste your burst during their roll and you should be able to handle them. Use cloak of pain to take the edge off their burst.

Sorcs: Oh boy. These guys' kiting ability is absurd, but with permanent 80% move speed you can lay the hurt on them. Stay at 10 meters to avoid bubble stun, and take a moment to sigh when they use their L2P H2F bubble of invincibility.

Sins: Another /sigh class, use force camo purge to get rid of their demolish and be sure to waste your force choke when they have deflection, a.k.a. "we're Bioware's favorite class" up. Another good cloak of pain candidate, as most sins are FoTM rerollers.

PTs: The burst is muy loco, do your best to end them in two rotations. If you can survive the gap between your 1st burst phase+force choke and your 2nd burst phase it should be an easy kill.

Mercs: These poor guys. I'd feel bad for how squishy they are, if they didn't pretend they weren't excellent in PvE. Dump their net just to spite them, another easy kill.

 

 

Utility Build:

Skillful-

Defensive Forms-Mandatory

Overwhelm- Also Mandatory

3rd point- Cloak or rage, inexorable, or maiming reach. This is largely personal preference and playstyle.

 

Masterful-

Defensive Roll- Very useful in AoE heavy mob fights that are common in regs

Phantom- Enhances Force camo as a ghetto combat stealth, and a gap closer. This point can also go into another 3rd point skill from before.

 

Heroic-

Unbound- Mandatory. You will suck if you don't use this.

Expunging Camo- Extremely useful. 45sec purge is not to be underestimated.

 

 

Hopefully this guide was a little helpful, or at least a little amusing.

 

haha learning to play mara. but all those poor maras who thought my merc was an easy kill lol.

good guide tholl but i pug just fine in my fury spec.

Edited April 23, 2015 by steveerkcanjerk