This game has devolved into a complete money-spinning rip-off.

[TravelersWay]

The Sims + Second Life + StarWars skin =/= MMO just because masses of credulous little blinkered consumers need to convince themselves that they're getting any kind of real value for their money.

 

Wow, you just described SWG to a T!

 

games need to go back to the old system. pay to play with no cash shop, all items should be gotten in game as rewards. more so as a customer devs should make items that are both found in game and given freely as a thank you for supporting the game.

And yet, that old system has proven to be unsustainable, hence why we are where we are at with the current system:

Before cash shops became mainstream (F2P has been around as long, if not longer than the subscription model), your only choice for playing an MMO was to pay monthly, and hence everything added to the game was included in that, so it's only natural for many people to continue to assume that if they are paying a monthly fee, they should have access to everything that gets implemented in the game. What they fail to realize is that the price of the subscription has remained static over the last decade, while the cost of developing these games has increased exponentially.

Edited March 30, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Jefficous]

I just got done un-subing to the Game. Upon my way out I left Bioware a note on my reason for leaving.

 

In addition to the same message I left Bioware below there are many additional reasons as to why I left. Not all inclusive but to add a few more. The engine, framerate drop because of a poorly codded UI. FOREVER and a day to fix some key game breaking bugs. Any decent new content is on the Cartel Market while the released patch content is the same with no new flare to the game(edit-there has been good updates I.e Strongholds, and gsf are among my fav, but anything past that is new boring daily areas and raids with more buggs then i care to recount). No new ideas, nothing fresh its ALL THE SAME, patch after patch after patch. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, and the trolls will tell me im wrong for X,Y and Z, but myself and my wife who plays with me (both of us since launch). Will be taking our time and Money to an MMO that offers real content updates bringing new life with every patch. My only complaint is my Star Wars Fanboyism prevented me from realizing this sooner. I hope Bioware polices up there game so I can return one day. But i have now moved on. Below is my 1995 character message to Bioware over the reason I left.

 

"I have been playing since Open Beta. I pre-ordered the Collectors edition and have been a loyal dedicated sub since. I have enjoyed this game for a long time but as of recently it is starting to feel very stale. I WANT this game can succeed. But with the direction the game has been taking lately I have come to realize there are better MMO's out there with less game breaking bugs and cost less to enjoy. I will take the next few paragraphs to explain the issues I have with the game.

 

Story: Excellent class and planet story's with great voice acting. As of today I have played most of the Class missions and ALL of the Planet missions+many additional quest content. It is now dry for me and this aspect of the game no longer appeals to me as there has been very little attempt to continue these class story's.

 

PvP: I enjoyed the warzones, class balance was one of the best I experienced with any MMO, not perfect but good. As time has progressed PvP remains the same. Not many new warzones. And little to no attempt made to introduce World PvP or a type of battlegrounds bringing fresh life to PvP.

 

GSF: Favorite part of the game ATM. But with no future plans to add more to GSF content based on the most recent road map, this disappoints me.

 

Conquest: An awesome feature, but because the friends I play with are in a small guild and our shrinking server is preventing us from recruiting more. Conquest is a challenge and is becoming more of a frustrating grind.

 

Content/expansion/Cartel Market: Last expansion was short, felt like a daily area update. Newest raids remain bugged. YET the cartel market gets updated regularly with new stuff. (not bugged) I must pay more for a subscription that should provide me this content. The MMO i am switching to does not do this and offers all new armor/mounts/content to its subs for no additional cost.

 

I have more to share but the 2000 Character limit prevents me. Please contact me as I want to see this game succeed."

 

EMAIL PROVIDED TO BIOWARE OMITTED BECAUSE YALL SEND ME TROLLING EMAILS.

 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Jefficous

[Unchosen]

Many of the complaints about the CM just ring hollow.

Just use credits to buy the CM gear from the GTN and use the monthly CC sub reward for the unlocks.

Maybe some of you are just too lazy to earn the credits. Maybe some of you are just too impatient to save up the rewarded CC until you can afford to purchase what you want.

Maybe some of you just don't like the CM because you resent that other players are willing and able to buy cooler looking things than you.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Unchosen

[Papazmurf]

Many of the complaints about the CM just ring hollow.

Just use credits to buy the CM gear from the GTN and use the monthly CC sub reward for the unlocks.

Maybe some of you are just too lazy to earn the credits. Maybe some of you are just too impatient to save up the rewarded CC until you can afford to purchase what you want.

Maybe some of you just don't like the CM because you resent that other players are willing and able to buy cooler looking things than you.

 

I think many would argue the principle that someone had to buy those items with real money before they could purchase said items with in game credits. I don't think it's an issue. This latest pack has been hot, so people are definitely spending money. I think at the end of the day it become socioeconomic in terms of haves and have nots.

[Jefficous]

So I actually didn't read much of this topic except the OP until after I posted my 2 cents. And tho the OP and I are what I think complaining about two different areas of the game. His definitely is about the cartel market and how he feels about it. I feel mine is directed twords the bugs in the game and the lack of meaningful directions the game has been taking.

 

BUT after reading all 11 pages of this topic something has become clear to me. There are three people posting in this topic.

 

1) People quitting this game and posting there reasons for doing so.

 

2) Trolls, they have nothing better to do. Dont feed them please

 

3) Biowares/EA's Social Media team

 

I MEAN COMMON would any sensible subscriber argue that the buggy content they are getting is sufficient and this is acceptable. Lot of other MMO's Ive played don't release raid after raid with this many bugs. Some yes. But as game breaking as cortanni for example. Spending hours trying to kill the boss over and over. Just an example, many buggy raids in the past. Nothing new here.

 

And yet there are people saying this is ok. A by product of today and age of MMO's i'm sorry but try any other MMO and its not the case.

 

BIOWARE OR EA SOCIAL MEDIA TEAM! Whoever you are, STOP IT. There are issues making this game and your company look highly unprofessional. My Wife and I have already taken are money else were.

 

Closer before i avoid these forums until the end of this year., when i make my decision if its worth a second look.

 

Your new costume designer looks dumb. Ive been playing since open beta "my look" is already complete. Give me savable STAT GEAR SLOTS. So idk i can change between my pve/pvp sets by a click of a button. Doesn't that seem handy and awesome. OR Like swappable build with gear bound to them. So when i am needed for either Tank or DPS for a given raid instead of having to respec change around my UI, and change my gear.... 10 min later we start raiding. How about savable builds and STAT gear slots. This was in a game called Guild Wars (1) released April 28th 2005.

 

Common thinking of good ideas is not hard. You just have to wake up in the morning, drink some coffee and DO SOME WORK!

[SplashNOR]

Just because The Old Republic naively thought it was going to kill World of Warcraft doesn't mean comparing the two is any more viable than comparing apples and oranges.

 

Actually they can. WoW is dumbing down due to the console-generation. If BW made sure SWTOR appealed to both those needing a real challenge (NiM comes to mind) and those at the other end of the scale (XP-boosts etc.), they could outstrip Blizzard due to dumbing-down of their game (I heard this from a coworker who playes WoW).

 

So, if BW fixed the bugs and made sure they could add more players in each instance without much lag, you could be surprised.

[ammberae]

I too after being a subscriber since launch have just ended my subscription today. I loved the game when it first launched: the class stories were amazing, the combat was beautiful, and overall I had a wonderful time playing. Now I find myself dreading raid nights. I don't want to log into the game anymore, because frankly the moment I log in I am bombarded with spam, and to even get into content I enjoy I have to sometimes wait an hour or more to even play it. I play only healer and tank roles, mind you.

 

SPAM - From the moment I log in, credit farmers on the fleet from multiple sites clog the already quiet chat (prime time during week MAYBE 80 people on fleet). So I take the first few moments of logging in to report spam, and ignore the user. EVERYDAY I have to do this. I have dabbled in other MMO's that within the first few months of launch take care of ridding their paying customers from these annoying spams. I am fed up with having to wait for BW to address this problem, and it is a problem! I can't speak for everyone, but this does ruin my gaming experience.

 

BUGS- I used to enjoy raids back in the day. Like I said I have been playing since launch, but now I dread raid nights, because of the bugs I encounter every week. Every week we raid Ravagers (and ToS, but I am more frustrated with Rav) and Coratanni almost every week without fail since this ops was released resets forcing our raid to kill her multiple times or until we just give up for the night.

 

QUE TIMES - Many people have left the game. I will not say the server is dead (I hate when people say that) but there is not enough activity to be able to get into flashpoints, gsf, operations, ranked warzones, etc. without having to wait a very long time. There are no cross server ques, which make the wait even longer, and impossible if you are not logged in during peak times. I spend some game nights spending most of my time waiting on fleet, hoping to get a pop. I pay a subscription monthly fee to wait to play? I have realized that is a WASTE of my money.

 

I feel taken advantage of as a consumer. This is a service I pay for, many of you PAY for. If I feel like this service isn't worth the money I am paying it is my right as the consumer to voice why I am unhappy, because maybe my concerns will be heard and changes will be made to a VERY promising game. I am sad to go, but things will not be fixed as long as I (and other subscribers who have accepted this quality of service) dish out our money to them, essentially our consent that says these things are acceptable.

Edited March 30, 2015 by ammberae

[Djiini]

1) People quitting this game and posting there reasons for doing so.

 

2) Trolls, they have nothing better to do. Dont feed them please

 

3) Biowares/EA's Social Media team

 

 

That applies to pretty much every single thread in Gen Disc.

[midianlord]

Wow, you just described SWG to a T!

 

 

And yet, that old system has proven to be unsustainable, hence why we are where we are at with the current system:

 

At least SoE didn't try to nickel-and-dime its playerbase at every possible opportunity, every time you turned around.

 

More to the point, I'd like to believe that the playerbase wouldn't have stood for it if they did. (I didn't play SW: G...It remains one of my great gaming-regrets that I didn't.)

 

EVE-Online still maintains a subscription system...Yes, they've added a cash-shop, but it's not too popular, pure cosmetics, everything in it can be player-crafted (with some doing)/player-traded, and the cash-cost of the items are, at most, like USD 1.50. IE, actual micro-transactions, not the hilarious rip-off you people keep swallowing left/right/centre here.

 

It's not the only one, either, some still sub-only with no cash-shp as far as I can recall. (I CBA to check, to be honest, but whatever...)

 

What does that say about what is/is not "sustainable?"

 

More to the point, what does that say about us?

 

Ultimately, we get the games we deserve, and deserve the games we get.

 

Make a quality product --which SW: tOR no longer is even close to, if it ever was-- and they will come...And they will stay, too.

Edited March 30, 2015 by midianlord

[Ghisallo]

The only thing that makes me scratch my head when people leave or unsub...is one reason... FPS. I have played no games in a dedicated fashion other than MMOs. I dabbled in COD, DAO, that really is about it. Of all the MMOs I played the only ones that never had an FPS issue were the original GWs (where everything was instanced and you couldn't even jump over terrain) and WoW which was designed to be played on a toaster. MMOs before SWTOR and after have the issue.

 

So I have to ask...in this ONE regard...is it the games or us? I mean if you look at all the other crap an MMO has to deal with there is a lot more going on on the data side. When I say "is it us"? By this I mean "do we expect too much graphics side (to equal our SP and CO-OP games) BUT also expect all the extras that MMOs are expected to bring?"

 

Bit really if you have experience with MMOs...again other than WoW which is a toaster game... SWTOR is better than even a couple right now when it comes to Frame rate...Rift immediately comes to mind.

[Ghisallo]

At least SoE didn't try to nickel-and-dime its playerbase at every possible opportunity, every time you turned around.

 

More to the point, I'd like to believe that the playerbase wouldn't have stood for it if they did. (I didn't play SW: G...It remains one of my great gaming-regrets that I didn't.)

 

EVE-Online still maintains a subscription system...Yes, they've added a cash-shop, but it's not too popular, pure cosmetics, everything in it can be player-crafted (with some doing)/player-traded, and the cash-cost of the items are, at most, like USD 1.50. IE, actual micro-transactions, not the hilarious rip-off you people keep swallowing left/right/centre here.

 

It's not the only one, either, some still sub-only with no cash-shp as far as I can recall. (I CBA to check, to be honest, but whatever...)

 

What does that say about what is/is not "sustainable?"

 

More to the point, what does that say about us?

 

Ultimately, we get the games we deserve, and deserve the games we get.

 

Make a quality product --which SW: tOR no longer is even close to, if it ever was-- and they will come...And they will stay, too.

 

Are you FREAKING HIGH!!?!?!?!?

 

I remember clearing all Hard Mode raid content in Sentinels Fate...DoV dropped and I left to Rift... Went back last year or so...its was f2p right? They wanted me to pay just to equip the gear that I had earned from hours banging my head against the bosses in UD... 4 rune Theer. I couldn't play some of my alts because their classes, their races or BOTH were behind a pay wall. SOE was worse than anything EA ever dreamed of. Smedley needs to die in a fire.

[danielearley]

Having to pay cartel coins for EVERYTHING.

 

As a player who commits to a sub every month, I shouldn't have to pay cartel coins for packs then have to pay again to use the items on another character.

 

All pack drops should be account-wide. Minor cosmetic changes should be free to subs also, or have a minor credit cost.

 

Legacy unlocks with prohibitive credit alternative costs leave no real option but to spend coins on alts. It's ridiculous. I'm all for micro-transactions, but, for instance, 240 coins to unlock a color crystal for account is stupid. At least moderate the cost some for subbers, it's not like you're not getting your pound of flesh every month, is it?

 

The money-grubbing just puts MMO players off this game. That and the stupid amount of time devoted to new ways to screw more money out of the playerbase while glaring game bugs go unfixed because what devs Bioware have are busy coding a new jetpack and sundry other fluff crap.

 

I'm confused, you get coins which would enable you to do this if you Sub, I've had no issue unlocking Cartel items I buy for credits on the GTN. I don't actually feel the need to buy extra coins to buy packs as everything I want is on the GTN if I'm willing to pay the price for it in credits.

The majority of unlocks I've used have been between 40 and 100 coins, which as I get given 500 coins a month as a Sub is more than enough to open whatever I want.

With regards to the Cartel Market, I believe this has it's own developement team who are funded by a percentage of the incoming funds from the Cartel Market. The rest is Profits to Shareholders and further developement of the game. As the Cartel Market pays for the developement of the game I see no reason why it should not make money out of the people willing to buy cosmetic items.

[wjrasmussen]

Having to pay cartel coins for EVERYTHING.

 

As a player who commits to a sub every month, I shouldn't have to pay cartel coins for packs then have to pay again to use the items on another character.

 

All pack drops should be account-wide. Minor cosmetic changes should be free to subs also, or have a minor credit cost.

 

Legacy unlocks with prohibitive credit alternative costs leave no real option but to spend coins on alts. It's ridiculous. I'm all for micro-transactions, but, for instance, 240 coins to unlock a color crystal for account is stupid. At least moderate the cost some for subbers, it's not like you're not getting your pound of flesh every month, is it?

 

The money-grubbing just puts MMO players off this game. That and the stupid amount of time devoted to new ways to screw more money out of the playerbase while glaring game bugs go unfixed because what devs Bioware have are busy coding a new jetpack and sundry other fluff crap.

Blame it on the freeloaders who feel entitled to having a free to play game.

[midianlord]

Are you FREAKING HIGH!!?!?!?!?

 

I remember clearing all Hard Mode raid content in Sentinels Fate...DoV dropped and I left to Rift... Went back last year or so...its was f2p right? They wanted me to pay just to equip the gear that I had earned from hours banging my head against the bosses in UD... 4 rune Theer. I couldn't play some of my alts because their classes, their races or BOTH were behind a pay wall. SOE was worse than anything EA ever dreamed of. Smedley needs to die in a fire.

 

I can't disagree, regarding your assessment of Smedley...The world of MMOs, regardless of what the future may or may not bring, would be infinitely improved with him gone therefrom. But...

 

The games you're ranting about aren't/are no longer sub/P2P --if they ever were? I haven't played them, sooo.....what does that have to do with my statement, which specifically regards SW: G and/or EVE-O?

 

SoE didn;t, as far as I know, do that in SW: G, is what I stated.

 

No, I'm not high --pardon: I'M NOT HIGH!!!!1111!!1ONEONE-- there, edited for modern forum-style!-- but maybe I should be if I'm going to spend more time on these forums?

[DiabloVS]

Actually, if you are referring to WoW, they have recently stopped adding new mount models in any form except for store mounts. Every single unique mount they make will cost you either $25 or $30. Also, WoW has no F2P version to max level. swtor has the best F2P model I have ever played. (though I am enjoying the game enough that I subbed)

 

Top MMOs don't need a f2p to max lvl, that's why they don't have it. This is for unpopular/failed at launch only.

[GrimRita]

Blame it on the freeloaders who feel entitled to having a free to play game.

 

I blame Bioware for not creating a game worth £9 a month. Without the 'freeloaders', you wouldn't have anyone to play with.

 

The servers are just 4 months were more or less dead (like they are now off peak) and the game is slowly returning to that state of 'deadness' again. Servers are 'light' for much longer which isn't a good sign and Q pops take even longer too.

 

As a subscriber, Bioware have actually added zero value recently with all the incoming content either being an expansion or just rehashed crap.

 

I just looked at the new ESO model and it is a BLINDER. I think Bioware need to change their outdated payment model. The game should welcome new players and invite them to stay - it doesn't.

[Ghisallo]

I can't disagree, regarding your assessment of Smedley...The world of MMOs, regardless of what the future may or may not bring, would be infinitely improved with him gone therefrom. But...

 

The games you're ranting about aren't/are no longer sub/P2P --if they ever were? I haven't played them, sooo.....what does that have to do with my statement, which specifically regards SW: G and/or EVE-O?

 

SoE didn;t, as far as I know, do that in SW: G, is what I stated.

 

No, I'm not high --pardon: I'M NOT HIGH!!!!1111!!1ONEONE-- there, edited for modern forum-style!-- but maybe I should be if I'm going to spend more time on these forums?

 

Sorry but all u said was "SoE never did..." EQ2 was part of SoE and so that is why I got my back up. If you didn't know about EQs model sorry but then I would also ask be specific about games to avoid the confusion.

 

The EQ franchise was the one I invested over 10 years into. When they went f2p it was all or nothing. My sub lapsed...I came back and all of my gear was in my bags. When I tried to put it on I wa s prompted to the cash shop. They limited not just races but classes and in EQ2 races had different stats bonuses making them better for specific classes. EQ2's model made SWTOR look like a legit free game.

 

In the end though SWTORs model is no different than any other game that has transitions from Sub to f2p. Imo it is actually more transparent. In Rift (as an example) yeah you don't have to pay cash to unlock the new earring slots but you needed to grind literally for months (because of the weekly currency cap)... "You don't need the new classes* so they charge for them... But yeah the new classes are actually optimal for many encounters so you do need em. Don't want to grind for the BiS seasonal essences for your sigil, just pull out the credit card. Heck I know people that were 100% raid ready as soon as they hit max level because you could buy the gear and upgrade pieces off the cash shop. It cost well over a hundred bucks to do it but they did and some hard core raid guilds required it for membership.

 

Trust me. SWTOR isn't that bad. I used to say it was but when I saw what EQ2 did and where Rift has gone...SWTOR is actually quite transparent and it is the least annoying.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Ghisallo

[GalacticKegger]

Free is a 4-letter word that exists purely as a pull marketing mechanism. If one enjoys a game on its merits, then play it. If a game doesn't provide enjoyment on its merits, then it's time to find one that does. If one enjoys a game on its merits but would enjoy it more with cash shop vanity items or shortcuts, then pony up. Not complicated really. Edited March 31, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[steveerkcanjerk]

Basically you feel that because you pay $15 a month you shouldn't have to PAY to unlock the cartel item in collections?

 

Sounds like more Entitlement BS to me.

 

P.s. You want to see a true nickle and dime MMO go play some of the Korean ones who have P2W cash shops then come back and complain about TORS CM.

 

well sounds like you dont pay a sub. guess what i did i bought the game for 70 dollars. then i have been paying a sub since 2011 (early access). Dont you think i at least deserve legacy wide unlocks. Allow me to use credits in order to get specific items from the packs. or use my 500 coins to grab somthing specific multiply 14.99 by 48 thats how many months i sit here waiting for them to add some real content. by the way the = 719.00. And i am sorry all you f2p people if people pay money they should get stuff that is how economy works if you cant afford somthing you cant buy it at the store and live with what you can. If i buy a lambo does that mean everyone gets on no its my money. Bioware has not given me 719.00 dollars worth really close to falling off this game but its not entilment people have put some serious money into this game.

[Anaesha]

well sounds like you dont pay a sub. guess what i did i bought the game for 70 dollars. then i have been paying a sub since 2011 (early access). Dont you think i at least deserve legacy wide unlocks. Allow me to use credits in order to get specific items from the packs. or use my 500 coins to grab somthing specific multiply 14.99 by 48 thats how many months i sit here waiting for them to add some real content. by the way the = 719.00. And i am sorry all you f2p people if people pay money they should get stuff that is how economy works if you cant afford somthing you cant buy it at the store and live with what you can. If i buy a lambo does that mean everyone gets on no its my money. Bioware has not given me 719.00 dollars worth really close to falling off this game but its not entilment people have put some serious money into this game.

 

You freaking retarded or what? Unless they changed it in the 6 months I was gone for work f2p/prefs can't post on the forums so obviously I pay a *********** sub.

[steveerkcanjerk]

You freaking retarded or what? Unless they changed it in the 6 months I was gone for work f2p/prefs can't post on the forums so obviously I pay a *********** sub.

 

k for how long 1 year 6 months if you dumped that much money into somthing then what. congratz your subbed well guess what some of us have been here since launch and paying. unless you can tell me you subbed since launch like i did then you havent put as much money into a game that some of us enjoyed becuase it did not have a ton of f2p people running around it. You know the day when you can pay a sub which people made a big deal about but most serious players pay a sub anyway and then now we get content locked. you dont see wow locking out armor sets to people. i can undersand if this started out as a f2p but it did not. If you have been subbed since the lifecycle of this game well either you are lieing or dont value your money.

[Ghisallo]

k for how long 1 year 6 months if you dumped that much money into somthing then what. congratz your subbed well guess what some of us have been here since launch and paying. unless you can tell me you subbed since launch like i did then you havent put as much money into a game that some of us enjoyed becuase it did not have a ton of f2p people running around it. You know the day when you can pay a sub which people made a big deal about but most serious players pay a sub anyway and then now we get content locked. you dont see wow locking out armor sets to people. i can undersand if this started out as a f2p but it did not. If you have been subbed since the lifecycle of this game well either you are lieing or dont value your money.

 

Nice try to dodge the issue.

 

Well the person you attacked was referring to a few things. First the OP they were responding to complained about even a subscriber having to buy cartel coins for everything. First what armore sets are locked out to a subscriber? None. Yes you need coins to buy the fluff stuff on the shop BUT you can also shop the GTN and buy the stuff with credits. WoW makes you buy each expansion as well.

 

For the subscriber NOTHING has changed since launch...the only difference is if you want extra exp boosts and fluff that were not around at launch then you have to pay with cartel coins. The only difference that exists for a subscriber is the perception, created by their own mind, that says... "Hey there is something new that I want and I want it for free because I pay a sub and that f2p person doesn't."

 

Now if this game was like Rift where people can spend money to be OPs/raid ready the minute they hit max level by buying a full set of gear off the Cartel, or where a person buying 149.00 expac gets lots of beneies vs the person playing "for free" or with the basic 20 buck collectors edition I could see a point...that isn't the case in SWTOR though. Objectively there is little to no reason for a subscriber to complain.

 

As for people who are f2p complaining they REALLY need to look in detail at the hybrid sub/f2p games out there. They all do the same stuff, just sometimes differently. Okay f2p person can jump right into rift without paying a dime BUT want to have all equipment slots unlocked...not back slots, rather equipment slots (2 eating slots) you need to pay OR you need to grind over 100k of their version of basic comms. Yes you have a higher weekly cap BUT the rate at which you win them is A LOT slower. Add to this that subscriber have numerous character buffs such as exp earning etc.

 

EQ2? At one point even if you earned the fabled gear as a subscriber when they went f2p if your sub lapsed you logged in naked and had to pay to out you gear back on. I hear that changed but you still have limits like not being able to use all tiers of spells/abilities. In EQ2 you have 3 tiers of every spell... adept, expert and master. Only Sub's can use Master...so if you want to do anything in a dungeon/FP better be silver(their version of preferred) and if you want to raid/Ops you better be a subscriber (what they call gold).

 

They ALL do this. The only real difference with SWTOR that I can find is that they are the most transparent about the plus and minuses. So my take away is that some people live by the old saying "ignorance is bliss."

Edited March 31, 2015 by Ghisallo

[steveerkcanjerk]

Nice try to dodge the issue.

 

Well the person you attacked was referring to a few things. First the OP they were responding to complained about even a subscriber having to buy cartel coins for everything. First what armore sets are locked out to a subscriber? None. Yes you need coins to buy the fluff stuff on the shop BUT you can also shop the GTN and buy the stuff with credits. WoW makes you buy each expansion as well.

 

For the subscriber NOTHING has changed since launch...the only difference is if you want extra exp boosts and fluff that were not around at launch then you have to pay with cartel coins. The only difference that exists for a subscriber is the perception, created by their own mind, that says... "Hey there is something new that I want and I want it for free because I pay a sub and that f2p person doesn't."

 

Now if this game was like Rift where people can spend money to be OPs/raid ready the minute they hit max level by buying a full set of gear off the Cartel, or where a person buying 149.00 expac gets lots of beneies vs the person playing "for free" or with the basic 20 buck collectors edition I could see a point...that isn't the case in SWTOR though. Objectively there is little to no reason for a subscriber to complain.

 

As for people who are f2p complaining they REALLY need to look in detail at the hybrid sub/f2p games out there. They all do the same stuff, just sometimes differently. Okay f2p person can jump right into rift without paying a dime BUT want to have all equipment slots unlocked...not back slots, rather equipment slots (2 eating slots) you need to pay OR you need to grind over 100k of their version of basic comms. Yes you have a higher weekly cap BUT the rate at which you win them is A LOT slower. Add to this that subscriber have numerous character buffs such as exp earning etc.

 

EQ2? At one point even if you earned the fabled gear as a subscriber when they went f2p if your sub lapsed you logged in naked and had to pay to out you gear back on. I hear that changed but you still have limits like not being able to use all tiers of spells/abilities. In EQ2 you have 3 tiers of every spell... adept, expert and master. Only Sub's can use Master...so if you want to do anything in a dungeon/FP better be silver(their version of preferred) and if you want to raid/Ops you better be a subscriber (what they call gold).

 

They ALL do this. The only real difference with SWTOR that I can find is that they are the most transparent about the plus and minuses. So my take away is that some people live by the old saying "ignorance is bliss."

 

k ill rebutle each paragraph 1 at a time here

 

1. your first paragraph, it is really annoying as a sub to have to buy coins were are my 14.00 a month going to all these years. would it kill them to not make us cough up tons of coins and credits in game we already giving the real money for what there have been months when they did not add to the game and we still paid. This is more of a community issue then anything else and yes i understand there are alot of f2p/sub games out there that are better and worse then swtor but if you see some of their sub benefits greatly out weigh swtor. Really we pay a sub to get annoyences lifted like unify colors that is not when i purchased this game as a sub that should not count as a feature that was part of the vanilla game. Next what armor sets are locked you say well this can actually dump into a different topic of economics here. yes you can buy armors at insane inflated prices because the demand is higher then supply which is bad for any economy. next is the fact that once packs are gone they are gone. And lets not forget you have to pay 10k for each mod and move it to another. Also if they become locked basically when the packs are gone and count all the armors you can actually get ingame that look unique and awsome.

 

2. really nothing has changed since launch you got to be kidding me. Like how about the fact our 500 coins cant buy ****. we have to pay out the *** even as subs in order to get cool looking gear. They add a generic set for all the classes in the game at each new expansion there arent really that many things you can get with just a sub. This also delvs into another topic because if subs did not have to use coins like they are f2p people to get new content. And i dont mind paying for large expansion but you got think about this how stupid is it to pay 14.99 a month only that the next update adds a new pack with a chance to get somthing you want. our coins cant even effectivly be used becuase its random chance this is worse then some nexon games. And let me explain somthing to you here about fluff. Armor customization in a MMORPG <--- see that, thats the type of game you are playing customization is super important. It matter how you look for you and other people especially on a rp server. Looking a certain way in these types of games is part of the experiance and since they put all armors behind pay walls which comes down to the scam this thread is about is stupid, does not matter if you are sub or not they are locking you out by doing limited time packs and random chances of getting things. Then it bounces on the ingame economy which has gone to **** because of this system. Even subs get ****ed over in this situation no one but the devs win. fluff is like color dyes and stuff like that but actual sets of armor which will never be available once the pack is gone is called being locked out at a certain point. then you deal with an inflated economy were some people got lucky that they got packs that dropped a specific piece of gear. Making crafter relevant by putting schematics if the different armors would fix this situation but thats not happening cause crafting is useless. so this issue actual effects the rest of the game.

 

3. After playing many free to play games at least a vast majority of the armors, or weapons are on a market for direct purchase. they are all random drops from packs you need to pay for. So you say they do it differently and they do it more fairly. And i am not saying making it pay to win but stop locking even sub out of things by limited time packs, allow people to directly buy what they want if they got the money. You do realize that your 500 coins a month dont get you jack **** on the store. You cant even do some legacy unlocks with 500 coins (of items you already spent tons of ingame credits or coins to obtain).

 

4. i attacked the portion of his post of the fact he is saying subs feel entilited but i ask him is it to much to ask for to make the most out of your money and have it be fair. 14.99 for a whole year is alot of money to dump into 1 game and for everyone doing that it is like buying 2 new games a year but they dont give the amount of content to equal that and they lock what they do make with very transparent methods if you think about it.

[Papazmurf]

I suppose 13 pages in, it's too late so say:

 

inb4 apologists say "don't like it, then quit!"

[wjrasmussen]

I blame Bioware for not creating a game worth £9 a month. Without the 'freeloaders', you wouldn't have anyone to play with.

 

The servers are just 4 months were more or less dead (like they are now off peak) and the game is slowly returning to that state of 'deadness' again. Servers are 'light' for much longer which isn't a good sign and Q pops take even longer too.

 

As a subscriber, Bioware have actually added zero value recently with all the incoming content either being an expansion or just rehashed crap.

 

I just looked at the new ESO model and it is a BLINDER. I think Bioware need to change their outdated payment model. The game should welcome new players and invite them to stay - it doesn't.

 

I solo around in the game. I don't need the freeloaders. They are a negative imo.