FerkWork Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) OR, you can L2P without easy mode DPS and Defense. Again, I am not saying remove the bubble, I just get tired of seeing people say crap like what you just said. Go look at the leaderboards. Snipers?slingers for example. better Armour, supposedly good DPS, and yet.... they are the first targeted and killed in most every clued in ranked engagement because they go down quick and easy and the ratings reflect this. Sents/Mara's supposedly have better armour and supposedly good damage, but again... Sorcs top them with supposedly 'weak' defense. Sorcs perform out of scale with their role. PTs/Vanguards are super crazy overperforming, but all of this crap about L2P is just that, its crap. Its the standard line made by any player of a class that is currently outperforming because the confirmation bias is strong with them. When the statistics clearly indicate that a class is performing well in excess of other classes its not a case of every single player of every other class just needing to L2P. My post was directed towards the OP and the complete removal of it but I guess the last part can apply to your QQ. Easy mode? Hardly it's nice once in a while but once used your screwed. Gosh I wish we had a 12 second CC immunity and stealth but you don't see me complaining. Just because we are no longer easy prey doesn't make it OP. You want easy mode. Again I say L 2 P Edited March 7, 2015 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 ..........................It was intended to serve as a spell to protect a sage in pve, not to make them invincible in pvp..... Says who? You are new to PVP right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 ..........................It was intended to serve as a spell to protect a sage in pve, not to make them invincible in pvp..... Yeah, because becoming untargetable is SO USEFUL in PVE! I can barely count the times it's saved my Sorcerer compared to PVP! Oh, wait, no. I confused that with something that's actually true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus-SUON Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) while bubble is a stupid skill to have, the bubble isnt the problem in the meta. Its the utility enduring bastion. It's complete **** after a bubble how sorcs are able to heal to full. Even if you stun/mezz them after bubble they will break force speed and still heal to at least 75%. Off heals need a huge nerf not the removal of the bubble. Edited March 7, 2015 by Ursus-SUON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVengeant Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) 1: "...Sages get focused more than any other class" PLEASE, cite some real factual information about this, rather than just spewing a bunch of BS through the computer. I always have to give a good laugh to you people who spew fake information and claim it has some evidential backing. How could you possibly know which class gets focused more than any other? Have you done statistics or analysis on every single occurrence of pvp and every fight? 2. Clearly you didn't follow any of the thread, nor did you even read my example, because I never indicated I was kill farming. I was clearly talking about arena, and even mentioned that, and arena is all about OBJECTIVE. You can't farm kills in Arena because it only lasts several minutes and once they're dead, that's it. Please learn to read Nice mature reply. Facts? My mains is a Sorc and Sage, always has been. Always will be. I PVP every day, on all classes. I can tell you for a FACT from my experience, I get focused most: by a good 25% more amount, on Sorc/Sage. And who do I say to focus if I am another class? Sage/Sorc. Numbers aren't needed. Everyone I PVP with agree's with me on it as well, and I PVP in one of the top guilds. What else is not needed is your near-rude reply. Barrier is needed in 4v4 as well. Because again, Sages/Sorcs get focused right off the bat. 90% of the time if I do 4v4 I get focused as that class, where as I don't much in other classes. I read just fine. You are also leaving out the impact of it not being there in PVE, it is needed there as well. Saved my butt many many times. However, I was able to reply without childishness and argumentative tone. If more people would do that this game and the enjoyment of it would be better for all. Edited March 7, 2015 by DarthVengeant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Hell just watch the streams when Hilary was doing PVP as a healer they focused on her the moment they saw her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) while bubble is a stupid skill to have, the bubble isnt the problem in the meta. Its the utility enduring bastion. It's complete **** after a bubble how sorcs are able to heal to full. Even if you stun/mezz them after bubble they will break force speed and still heal to at least 75%. Off heals need a huge nerf not the removal of the bubble. Sigh... You mean Corrupted Barrier, Enduring Bastion is the absorb shield that you get at the end of Barrier. And the off-heals aren't really as potent as you imagine. If you sit there and let a Sorc cast Dark Heal over and over, you're bad and should feel bad. To the OP: Learn to play. I usually am more tactful with these posts, but there's just too much stupid in this thread. Every class gets an escape power. Some of them (i.e. BH and Troopers) have ones that suck (KO/AR), but hopefully they will get improved. Edited March 7, 2015 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo_Pan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Imho, pvp ruins any MMO. Just sayin'......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoofa Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 This kind of thread annoys me. I play a sage. I'm not a "great PvP player" but I can hold me own, always learning etc. But when I'm running around in full ranked PvP gear and still taking 13k, 14k hits and someone waltz's in demanding the removal of the only saving grace, the only emergency defence we have, it is damn annoying. We have the ability to stop incoming attacks for a period of time on a long cooldown. As soon as we pop the shield you should be concentrating on the healer and not allowing them the chance to heal us back up, we then exit the shield in the same, usually near death, condition we entered it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I laugh at people who QQ about force bubble... It is easy to counter When it ends... Stun the sorc... Dps down again... Slow... Dps... Stun... dps... Dead Sorc (As long as you haven't White barred them... !!) I play a Sorc as well as every other class... force bubble is definately not OP People just need to learn tactics... Which they are too lazy to do If you can't be bothered to figure them out your self... Ask someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couver Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) You could try, like, adapting. If you think 'PREVENTING DEATH ONCE EVERY ~10 MINUTES' is god mode, you have a really interesting view on the world.Not that I'm on board with the OP, but tell us, how exactly would you "adapt" to it? Okay, in that case I want heroic moment able to be used in pvp...So you want Sages/Sorcs to have Heroic Moment AND Force Barrier? You didn't think that out too well, did you? Edited March 8, 2015 by Couver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilc Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 while bubble is a stupid skill to have, the bubble isnt the problem in the meta. Its the utility enduring bastion. It's complete **** after a bubble how sorcs are able to heal to full. Even if you stun/mezz them after bubble they will break force speed and still heal to at least 75%. Off heals need a huge nerf not the removal of the bubble. Trooper got a ridiculous nerf to off heals, so idk how sage off heals is? We don't even get medical probe anymore in a dps spec (that's right, all we have is advanced medical probe on a 13 second CD), it's only available in heal spec. I can't believe the day came when they removed off healing from the game entirely and disallowed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilc Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Not that I'm on board with the OP, but tell us, how exactly would you "adapt" to it? So you want Sages/Sorcs to have Heroic Moment AND Force Barrier? You didn't think that out too well, did you? I did, but you clearly didn't read the part where I said Okay, in that case I want heroic moment able to be used in pvp, but it cannot be used within 5 minutes of force barrier being used. I like how you try to twist my words like a ten year old and only include the part that makes me look bad, but completely leave out the important part of my post. Edited March 8, 2015 by xilc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couver Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) I did, but you clearly didn't read the part where I said I like how you try to twist my words like a ten year old and only include the part that makes me look bad, but completely leave out the important part of my post. I didn't twist your words at all. Nowhere did I say they could pop them together nor did I take what you said out of context to imply that you did. I just think that it's silly that you have a problem with one of their abilities, so your solution would be to give them another one. The only thing reminiscent of a 10 year old was your comprehension of that of a 10 year old's in understanding how ridiculous that is. Edited March 8, 2015 by Couver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilc Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 I didn't twist your words at all. Nowhere did I say they could pop them together nor did I take what you said out of context to imply that you did. I just think that it's silly that you have a problem with one of their abilities, so your solution would be to give them another one. The only thing reminiscent of a 10 year old was your comprehension of that of a 10 year old's. Quote: xilc: Okay, in that case I want heroic moment able to be used in pvp... Couver: So you want Sages/Sorcs to have Heroic Moment AND Force Barrier? Couver: You didn't think that out too well, did you? No, you clearly took what I said out of context, because the entire message hinged on the pivotal point that they can not use them within 5 minutes of each other. If they sacrificed the use of heroic moment to use force barrier, or likewise the other way around, the entire scenario could turn out quite differently. How does your point even make any sense whatsoever that I am incorrect for thinking it a smart idea to give them another ability, if they are both independent and unrelated events? This is really about common sense, more than it is about logic. If both can't be used within the same time period, then HM has no effect on FB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrr_hypernova Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 just going to say this but heroic moment in pvp is the most stupid idea ive heard scine the last new bioware starwars game inside info. if you think chainspaming every classes top end abilitys gaining a healing factor and depending on if unitys counts as a heroic ability 80 precent damage resistance is comparable to being immobile and invincible for 8 seconds you should never ever be asked about balance ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocknrollmartian Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) This thread reads like a lot of sorc players and PVEers whining lol Sorc is far from the 'squishiest class' in PVP, even a DPS-spec sorc/sage has offhealing head-and-shoulders above a merc's offheals, and ten times the ability to keep opponents off of you. Static Barrier alone is much, MUCH more useful than any other class's offheals for a sorc DPS, not to mention you also have an insta-cast HOT with a negligible resource cost and a short CD, an insta-cast 15-20% heal with no resource cost and a relatively short CD, dark heal.. not to mention a knockback that can be talented to root, a slow, force speed, whirlwind (which should be insta-cast if you're a PVPer with any sense), self-heals and an immo if you're madness, an AOE immo if you're lightning, an AOE blind if you talent it (most PVPers do); basically more than enough mitigation, self-healing, and movement-impairing abilities to shut down any melee and to get away from another sorc or a sniper's focus fire. I've played most classes at max level and sorc was nowhere NEAR the 'squishiest class'. Any of you insisting this is so - play a mercenary. Trash offheals with significant CDs and resource costs and cast times, jet boost as your only meaningful 'get off me' button (unless you're wasting electronet on kiting), and two defensive CDs barely even worth the effort of pressing the buttons when you're under focus fire in ranked 4v4. Not to mention they're the only class in the game without an ability that forces a hard-switch to another target (what barrier does). Even marauders, whose DCDs are also lacking, have an immunity ability to get pressure off of them. Arsenal suffers most as much of its rotation during CD downtime has to be hardcasted from a stationary position. Bodyguard fairs slightly better but the incredibly stationary nature of its abilities force merc healers to kite for self-preservation; facetank enemy teams, and nothing else. Though by the logic of everyone in this thread, I suppose because mercs have heavy armor (which means literally nothing against most burst-oriented classes btw; PT railshots pierce 60-90% armor, sorc burst is 100% force-based and not affected by armor, sin burst is at least partially force-based and MM snipers get sunders and armor pen built in to their burst) this isn't important. Also, to the PVEers - force barrier was added to the game to counter the PVP meta of 'kill the sorc/sage', not for any PVE-oriented reasons. The problem is PVP seems to revolve around an ever-increasing arms race of survivability and DCDs and a few classes like merc, marauder and to an extent, sniper, are being left in the dust. Leaderboards don't lie, and I doubt the entirety of the game's PVP community needs to 'L2P'. Edited March 8, 2015 by Rocknrollmartian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couver Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Quote: No, you clearly took what I said out of context, because the entire message hinged on the pivotal point that they can not use them within 5 minutes of each other. If they sacrificed the use of heroic moment to use force barrier, or likewise the other way around, the entire scenario could turn out quite differently. How does your point even make any sense whatsoever that I am incorrect for thinking it a smart idea to give them another ability, if they are both independent and unrelated events? This is really about common sense, more than it is about logic. If both can't be used within the same time period, then HM has no effect on FB.... It doesn't matter when you feel they should be able able to use it within x skill (really a stupid argument anyways and I already regret being part of it) so no, I didn't take what you said out of context. Your beef is with a skill they have that gives them survivability, so your counter to it is to give them another skill which would give them even more survivability. Btw, 5 seconds of immunity while still being able to attack, heal, play objectives etc is far better than 8 seconds of immunity while being able to do absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionSol Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 OP DPS ruins PVP Cloaking ruins PVP Stuns ruins PVP PVP ruins PVP give us a break, people complain so many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabakla Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) I dont think any serious pvper would even respond to this threat ... seriously?! (i am not a serious pvper btw ) I will give u points ir u are trolling ... u did get some in ur bait .. So if u are trolling 7/10 If u are serious .......... (PS: I still remember a time when sorc/sage healing was completely useless and mocked upon in pvp especially in ranked .. do u still remember this guys?) Edited March 8, 2015 by Jabakla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 PVP ruins PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 PVP ruins PVP. Winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrr_hypernova Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 pvp players in a nut shell rock is op nerf it buff scissors papers fine sincerely scissors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazmurf Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 pvp players in a nut shell rock is op nerf it buff scissors papers fine sincerely scissors. Pretty much, though no one will ever admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPepssi Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yeah, why should the squishiest DPS class IN THE ENTIRE GAME get some kind of defensive utility! I call hax! Seriously, every other DPS in the game has medium or heavy armor (with the exception of Assassin/Shadow, which get...stealth, I guess? I don't play one). Get /over/ it. Also, you're full of it, I was like the fourth or fifth post and I saw you say to remove it. Seconds =/= Minutes. Squishy? Are you *********** kidding me? Your self heals more than make up for your squish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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