How not to chase a GS...

[DakhathKilrathi]

If the scouts eat GS of equal skill so easily, why don't we see often a 'scout swarm' counter to 'gunship wall' even with bomber absence?...

 

Because people are stupid.

 

No, really, that's the reason. I can successfully get a gunship wall moving on my own in my T2 Scout, assuming they don't have bomber cover (and possibly even if they do). If I can do that on my own, a scout swarm would in fact be a successful counter. Assuming comparable skill, numbers counter numbers. I can't tell you why people don't do it.

 

Note that "scout swarm" does not mean "fly at the gunships one at a time in a straight line from the front".

Edited February 26, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[RatPoison]

Holy hell. Well anyway...

 

He complains about gunships a bit too much, so I find what I said warranted. You outskilled him by a large margin, because if both of you were equals, he would have killed you much much faster.

 

You were right, and I apologize for calling your first post harsh... He's definitely got a thing for gunships.

 

...

 

Your video begins after a few seconds where you acquire the target. If you watch from about 40 seconds to 1:20, you'll see you are chasing the gunship the whole time. <insert text wall>

 

I liked the blow by blow, play by play analysis, but there are a couple of assumptions in there that are not exactly correct. The video speaks for itself, but as I wrote earlier... when it became abundantly clear that my team was clearly going to get squashed, and I was not going to receive any appropriate help... I put my effort to surviving the chase to drag it out for however long he wanted to follow me. This more or less starts after I got the first kill for our team and he locked onto me. The initial chase ahead of that, I tried but couldn't get him in front of me and recognizing that took my potshots at farther targets.

 

Much later into the chase, it was only missing a distortion field on a cluster, and subsequently eating a second cluster turning my hull red that my hand was forced and I had to either continue the slow death, or make my stand. I decided to make a stand and went off to collect an engine overcharge and do what I ultimately did.

 

As for how things played out in the end... as you and Drako now have pointed out.... I only was able to turn and face when I got as many cards as I could stacked in my favor, the engine overcharge was what I was looking for after going red. Selecting to get to the back of the map so he had nothing to duck and weave behind... having all my cooldowns ready, etc. Of course, I knew the scout wasn't running barrel roll, and by virtue of him boosting to keep up with me when I collected the overcharge... I would have a full engine pool while his would be something less. I stacked as many cards as I could in my favor and even still... in the end, luck influenced the outcome of the fight.

 

It would have been far smarter of me to have done this sooner rather than waiting till my hull went red, but I was enamored by his persistence and wanted to see how long it would last. And while clarifying that I spent most of this goofing around, I don't think this detracts from the point that a scout has the advantage once they've closed the gap on a gunship.

 

And to answer an earlier question... yes, my Mangler is mastered.

 

And maybe it's not the wisest practice, but I'll intentionally eat some clusters, if I've still got my shields up, to save distortion field for more desperate times.

 

Anyway, I am still waiting for someone to answer the basic question:

 

If the scouts eat GS of equal skill so easily, why don't we see often a 'scout swarm' counter to 'gunship wall' even with bomber absence?...

 

I've seen it plenty of times where one good scout pilot can disrupt a lot of gunships. A while back, Keenz was flying, dying, and getting pissed because he was getting slaughtered by some focused gunship love. He was the only scout out there flying it up while the rest of our team was fairly newbish. We won the match because while he had their attention, I was picking them apart.

 

But regardless... you've already answered your own question by virtue of this video. If you have one scout chasing each gunship with as much vigor as you did me... then the match will very easily be in the scout teams favor. I had to stack all those things in my favor to get a shot at winning. The odds of being able to do that time and time again in a match? I wouldn't be taking that bet in Vegas.

Edited February 26, 2015 by RatPoison

[Bolo_Yeung]

Well... nearly all people in GSF are stupid?... Thats a little strange thing to say.

 

Yes, you can break a GS wall made by moderately experienced pilots with single scout. Try to do it with *capable* GS wall. Maybe post a video.

 

Good luck. You'll need it .

[Ramalina]

HA! Try pressuring a GS in a strike. Jedi have the force, but sometimes having the sneaky is better.

 

Sneaking in is definitely an art, and quite difficult against a high level GS pilot, because they'll be watching the minimap so merely LOSing and approaching from outside their line of view isn't enough to surprise them.

 

With a frontal approach, or any case where you expect the GS to see you coming the thing to do is use LOS for protection while flying in at full throttle, then boost just before you loose the LOS protection. You were in a very good position to do that and wasted at least 2 km worth of boost at the start without really needing to (unless a scout or strike that we don't see in the clip was pursuing you at the time). Having as much engine energy as possible at the start is vital, unless you're 100% sure you can burst kill before the GS has a chance to run.

 

With slightly better energy management he wouldn't have outrun you, with mastered Clusters the extra 300 or so damage per hit would have probably gotten you the kill, and if your BLCs and TT weren't mastered that also would have hurt your ability for a quick kill.

 

That said, your number one problem in terms of offense was off center shots. The tracking penalties on most of them would have been horrendous, and combined with the range penalties for BLCs you had a lot of low hit probabilities with low damage potential even if RNG had been unusually kind to you.

 

Centering shots while flying a curve is not easy. It takes tons of practice, and never becomes genuinely easy. So while it's worth practicing, it's also worth avoiding when avoidable. If I'm trying to line up a shot I'll often swing a bit wider in a turn (yeah, this after I criticized lag pursuit) to open up some distance behind the target and then turn hard to line up a short 1-2 km straight line boost where the target is nicely centered at the end of the boost.

 

That's what I meant when I was talking about trading distance for angles.

 

As for the meta, part of that is habit. If people in scouts get consistently thrashed by GS + Bomber combos they're less likely to fly a scout in games without many bombers even if they still keep one on their bar.

 

The other part is that there are certain fundamentals and gear requirements that you have to have down as a scout pilot in order to ruin a GS's day on a regular basis.

 

Sneaking/LOSing on the approach (or at least starting with energy parity or energy advantage), energy management, accurate gunnery, and situational awareness of other threats are the main ones and you have to be doing them all at the same time.

 

For gear you need to be able to burst kill, and that means upgrades. BLCs, Clusters, Quads, Pods, BO, TT, they really ought to be mastered for GS hunting. It's the difference between monster burst damage when RNG smiles on you and monster burst damage every time you properly execute an attack.

 

It's extremely rare for a full team to be made of pilots that can do all those things at the same time. So the weaker pilots get nailed and in order to fly against a wall of gunships and succeed when outnumbered you have to be a top notch scout ace.

 

The weak gunship pilots are even more vulnerable to opponents than weak scout pilots are, but the better gunships on their team are likely to provide a fair amount of defense for them in a way that the better scouts can't do for the weaker scouts, mostly because of range limitations on weapons. On a team basis an incompetent GS pilot is less of a handicap than an incompetent scout pilot. It's hanging back and taking the occasional shot vs. chain kamikaze suicide dives.

 

If you could guarantee the absence of bombers and of unskilled scout pilots there might well be a resurgence of battlescout swarms. Before bombers appeared there was no shortage of battlescout swarms, and gunships were a lot stronger against scouts back then than they are today.

[Bolo_Yeung]

*yawn* ok... ok... that is funny. So much people claimint scouts superiority, so little actually using them to break a GS wall

And yes, I have a 'thing' for the GS - because I want to play space flight simulator , not a game of chess, the 'deathball tactic is most of the times forcing.

Also, I like to laugh for all ppl claiming 'scout is OPed' and ... well... flying 'ballanced' GS

[nyghtrunner]

words...

 

Considering the fact that the scout should have an advantage when he gets close... even assuming skill/gear gap (gear, I am not sure, skill - working on it , though I have to admit that Saevius is better... for now ) the amount of time an focused single GS can evade an angry battlescout without any serious help from the team, - is pretty better than the opposite situation.

 

more words...

The bolded part is the issue at play here, to be honest. I've flown with, and against Saevius more times than I care to think about, and I'm truly not kidding when I say he very well might be the best overall gunner I've ever run into (at this point in our careers). That's not to stroke his ego, and it's not to sleight others. I have just seen him coldly dissect teams, even when he's being pressured, like they aren't even there.

 

One of the first times I truly "noticed" Saev, we were at loggerheads, and his team beat mine in a DOM on Denon. Because of him, and possibly 1 other solid pilot. Ran it back, got a TDM, and the match that, had I been recording, would have looked almost EXACTLY like your video (except the chase was over the B1-B3 area, rather than the B3-B5 area of that map). It took me a solid 3 minutes to figure out some semblance of a pattern to what he was doing, and another 1-2 to bag the kill. I did not get a single other kill while doing this, and even got a "not participating" notification. I believe he even landed a couple kills off of pot shots while I was chasing him.

 

I saw his name going in, and said to myself, "Well, HE is not beating us again." And I spent the next 3-4 minutes chasing him while my team took the rest of his to task.

 

Because of this, I do not think it is AT ALL fair to start looking at this as any kind of microcosm of the GS : BS interaction. This is not normal. Saev is better than many of the other "aces" I've run into, who I still consider aces, and in some cases, I think are far better than I am. He is incredibly aware of his surroundings, who is shooting at him, and most importantly, where they are. Verain keeps saying he can't "see" you, and while it's true that you are not on his screen, I would wager money he knows exactly where you are in relation to him via the minimap. Maybe I give him too much credit, but bagging Saevius in his GS, even from ambush, without any help, is one of the most difficult things I have had the pleasure of doing in this game. It's a little easier for me now, since I've flown against him so much, and know some of his tendencies, but it's still something of a toss-up leaning in his favor to start, and if he has cover, I'm truly lucky to actually close the deal. If I'm unable to, he will kill me once he's somewhere I can't easily follow, or if someone peels me for even 5s. That's usually all the opening he needs.

 

If someone on his team ran cover for him, I would bet the result of the match in the video is totally different. It is not because GS. It is because Saevius. Most times, the best you can hope to do is effectively remove him from the match (which you did here). In some ways, if he has no real help, it's almost best to keep him running, because you will always know where he is.

 

Qwest, another pilot on JC, is almost as elusive, but not as offensively minded. Aimbot is I think a steadier shot, and largely more lethal, but is far more willing to trade himself for a possible kill shot on someone else, letting you take him off the field, and focus on the enemy team for 30-45s at a time. Verain is similarly elusive, but "feels" less deadly to me, even though he has much more of the offensive mind than someone like Qwest (To be fair, I don't have tons of experience flying against Verain, but chasing him feels in some ways a lot like chasing Saev).

 

The point being, I truly feel that you are looking at the absolute upper crust of GS pilots, and I truly do NOT think it is fair to use this example as any kind of representation of how hard it is for a BS to kill a GS. I know of your Ghost Squadron, and while some of you seem quite capable, there is a significant skill difference between what I've seen out of any of you, and a pilot like Saevius when he's locked in. Especially if he gets comfortable.

 

This is exactly what I meant when I said earlier that I doubt you realize just how effective you were at removing him in that video, and what a boon it was for your team. And honestly, there were 2-3 times in the video where you seemed to consider letting him go, and going after others. I can't tell you how correct you were to let those other targets go, and stay on Saev. I counted at least twice where you were probably 2-3s from death at range because you almost decided to let him go.

[RatPoison]

*yawn* ok... ok... that is funny. So much people claimint scouts superiority, so little actually using them to break a GS wall

And yes, I have a 'thing' for the GS - because I want to play space flight simulator , not a game of chess, the 'deathball tactic is most of the times forcing.

Also, I like to laugh for all ppl claiming 'scout is OPed' and ... well... flying 'ballanced' GS

 

Well, I'm sorry, but the evidence for your concern is in your video. I'm a very evasive flier, and what I did there is not atypical for me. If I'm focused on evading... there are very few scouts that can kill me quickly. But killing me or not... doesn't change the results produced here... You dominated the chase all the way up till the end and lost the fight only because of some bad luck.

 

You put 8 scouts doing this against 8 gunships... and while it may turn into a very slow match, it would take a lot of luck, I think, for the gunships to win... where all things are equal.

Edited February 27, 2015 by RatPoison

[nyghtrunner]

Well... nearly all people in GSF are stupid?... Thats a little strange thing to say.

 

Yes, you can break a GS wall made by moderately experienced pilots with single scout. Try to do it with *capable* GS wall. Maybe post a video.

 

Good luck. You'll need it .

And sorry, but I take issue with this.

 

Sriia is another extremely good pilot, and is I think equally skilled in a BS or GS. I assume he/she's being a little sarcastic with the "they're stupid" comment, but there's another portion of Sriia's comment that is extremely relevant.

 

Note that "scout swarm" does not mean "fly at the gunships one at a time in a straight line from the front".

To take a stab at answering your supposedly unanswerable question, I'd just say that while the tactic of 8 scouts v 8 gunners is correct, it requires coordination. The scouts need to be working together, and keeping all of the gunners busy. To do this, you practically NEED voice comms.

 

As a TEAM, it is correct to go to scouts, assuming equal skill. As an individual, which is what a LOT of GSF is, especially on JC, people have the misconception that it's correct to "fight fire with fire", and they swap to gunships.

 

But you give me voice comms with Tommm, Scrabs, Sriia, Keenz, I'sys, Drako, and Pincer against pretty much ANY other 8 gunners, and I wager the scouts win.

 

You shouldn't be so dismissive of Sriia's comment. There's even some validity to the "everyone's stupid" remark. A majority of pilots seem to not know that you don't have to fly in straight lines.

[Bolo_Yeung]

To take a stab at answering your supposedly unanswerable question, I'd just say that while the tactic of 8 scouts v 8 gunners is correct, it requires coordination. The scouts need to be working together, and keeping all of the gunners busy. To do this, you practically NEED voice comms.

As a TEAM, it is correct to go to scouts, assuming equal skill. As an individual, which is what a LOT of GSF is, especially on JC, people have the misconception that it's correct to "fight fire with fire", and they swap to gunships.

 

And thats exactly the problem - GS wall does not need much coordination, the amount needed can be easily done on chat. Without a voice 'battlescout team' doesn't have much chances...

... Now, how often do you have a voice coordinated double premade of ace battlescout pilots?

'The most OP ship' is 'most OP' in hands of the few people, that happen to have TS/mumble/whatever. Pure Gs wall or 'deathball' is a way to go for most of people - because there is not a hard counter for it - and for strike/scout team 'deathball' is a 'I win' button.

 

And so, instead of action, TDM turns into a game of chess (Domination as well, but thats a different story).

Seriously, I think that it would be more intresting with just T1 / T2 strike and T1 scout...

[RatPoison]

I disagree about the voice coms. The coordination for the scouts is as simple as everybody picking one gunship to chase around all game. And even at that, voice coms would likely be far more useful for the gunship pilots who... if they aren't getting lucky with picking off scouts when they're closing the gaps will be stuck trying to figure out how to help one another peel.

 

This is all hypothetical regardless.

 

I don't think people are going to disagree with the notion that once a scout has closed the gap, they have the advantage, and the video you have shows that very well.

[WiseStranger]

And thats exactly the problem - GS wall does not need much coordination, the amount needed can be easily done on chat. Without a voice 'battlescout team' doesn't have much chances...

... Now, how often do you have a voice coordinated double premade of ace battlescout pilots?

'The most OP ship' is 'most OP' in hands of the few people, that happen to have TS/mumble/whatever. Pure Gs wall or 'deathball' is a way to go for most of people - because there is not a hard counter for it - and for strike/scout team 'deathball' is a 'I win' button.

 

And so, instead of action, TDM turns into a game of chess (Domination as well, but thats a different story).

Seriously, I think that it would be more intresting with just T1 / T2 strike and T1 scout...

 

And I think it would be more interesting if your "friend" didn't "sponsor" your incompetence on these forums.

 

Nobody is interested in your excuses why you can't kill gunships. It's not the ship it's the pilot that controls that ship. Meaning if you can't beat someone it's not because their ship is OP, it's because you don't fly the optimal ship/build for the task AND/OR you're just that much worse as a pilot.

 

8 gunships vs 8 scouts (assuming equal skill and gear) won't require voice chat for either side. If scout pilots are just as good as gunship pilots they will be able to read the map and be smart about not going in one-by-one. They will also be smart enough not to engage in 2 vs 1 fights against any one gunship. If you can't fly a scout well enough to kill a gunship (and you demonstrated us you lack of good judgement when you engaged a vanished gunship in a straight line from 15 km with that video of yours) it doesn't mean that scouts are not good. It means that the problem is between the chair and the controls.

 

You bring that mythical team of strikes and scouts vs gunships and bombers. There is no such thing as a consistent team of strikes and scouts. There should be no single pilot above level 10 that has only 2 ships. If they are new they should play one game and with the quest reward get a type 1 gunship and type 1 bomber to the total of 4 ships. If they do something else as new pilots - they are just idiots and deserve what comes for them. A wall of gunships and bombers is countered by the team of 8 gunships (assuming equal level of upgrades) and team of 8 gunships is countered by you know what.

 

Bottom line - stop complaining and just get better as a scout. Can't wait for your sub to expire.

Edited February 27, 2015 by WiseStranger

[Bolo_Yeung]

I disagree about the voice coms. The coordination for the scouts is as simple as everybody picking one gunship to chase around all game.

And when - assume - one csout would kill his trget, the gunship in question respawns. Before victiorious scout can reacquire his target, respawned GS has a free shot time. Assume he manages to score 1-2 hits, that means 1-2 scouts practically disabled,

 

I don't think people are going to disagree with the notion that once a scout has closed the gap, they have the advantage, and the video you have shows that very well.

 

1vs1 - yes. 8v8 - not so simple as this.There will be always a moment of breath and good gunship pilot will use it to score a quick ion hit (or, as I said before, respawned one, temporarily without scout on his tail, giving another teammate a moment of breath... what happened when I left you for a moment?

 

However, this is purely hypothetical situation. I agree. We won't see a full scout team, for the reasons I posted above. What matters is the fact that GS+bombers combo (with variable numbers of either, depending on sutuation) beats aby other combination in TDM - and in long term, domination as well... turning, in the process, a space battle into turn based strategy (thats why I do hate GS dominated battles by the way...).

 

So mich of speaking of 'the most OP ship'.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Bolo_Yeung

[Asbetos]

Wow the amount of ignorance and ego you keep displaying really amazes me Urt. You have EVERYONE in the topic proving you wrong with completely objective tactical, strategical and mathematical arguments and you're STILL sticking to your story with absolutely no argumentative backup.

[Yojiro]

Assume he manages to score 1-2 hits

 

This is all based on assumption. Actually, most of the "proof" you base yourself on in this thread-spanning GS-crusade of yours is based on assumption - no real evidence. No numbers. Time to start turning to the cold, hard facts - those two hits the GS score? How many SHOTS will that actually translate to without divine RNG intervention? Run the numbers like the people with the math arguments did, time and time again.

 

You are also ASSUMING the scouts are within GS range the moment the GS spawns, that they are in the open and complete and utter numbskulls. And you are ALSO ASSuming that the rest of the community doesn't know what they are talking about (people like Drakko, Verain, Asbetos)

Edited February 27, 2015 by Yojiro

[Bolo_Yeung]

Wow the amount of ignorance and ego you keep displaying really amazes me Urt. You have EVERYONE in the topic proving you wrong with completely objective tactical, strategical and mathematical arguments and you're STILL sticking to your story with absolutely no argumentative backup.

 

FYI: Ignorance is *not* equal to saying somehing different than anyone else is saying

And 'proving me wrong' - how so?

 

The only serious answer I got for my question (why aren't there swarms of scouts countering GS walls?) was something that generally was close to my own opinion. People who contradicted this were saying something like 'nah, scouts will own gunships without voip') or 'you just plain suck' etc. That speaks something about them.... but that's a different story.

 

This is all based on assumption. Actually, most of the "proof" you base yourself on in this thread-spanning GS-crusade of yours is based on assumption - no real evidence. No numbers(...)

And counter -arguments? The only serious counter was Dracolich's information about evasion boost from EO,

 

But - if you consider yourself a good scout pilot and have good toons on Jedi Convenant, Red Eclipse or Progenitor - let's see how fast will you kill me (I - in GS, you - in 'most OPed' battlescout) - and how much hits I will manage to score before.

 

Sure, there is an option of camping all spawn sites, but again, gunship/bomber combo is much better in this tactic than scouts. And a single scout can't cover all 3 spawns anyway...

 

Edit: why am I assuming 1-2 hits in post before?

 

After death, I can still see position of enemies on my map. In TDM, I have 3 spawnpoints, choosing of course one away from 'my' battlescout position.

Since all other scouts are occupied in meantime by chasing remaining gunships, they have to know that my GS is not 'covered' and dangerous. In majority of the cases they won't, this leaving me only one scout to be afraid of.

The moment I appear on my 'friend' radar is the moment I have something to shoot at in range. In best case 6-9 seconds before 'my scout' close the distance, meaning 4-6 shots with Wingman and ion rail.

109% accuracy + 6% from crewman + 20 from Wingman = 135% accuracy, against scouts' 10+9+9+5 = 33 base % + disto / RI bonuses (and since I am far away, I can pretty easily keep enemy ship in center, reducing tracking penalty to negligibly low values) Since the RI is up about 1/3 of the scout flightime and DF - 30/45%, I have a high (102%-tracking) chance of hit - and even with full DF+RI it is still 50%. Assume half of my shots were plain off-target and half of the shots were on DF+RI combo (I can , as Drakolich said, pay attention to buffs to prevent it) - it will give that 1-2 shots.

 

Now, chasing scouts won't have full engine pool, so the energy drain stops them. Friendly gunships can breathe for a second, possibly taking advantage and scoring hits against other scouts, starting a chain reaction. The tides have turned...

 

Feel free to tell me how would you deal in this situation. However please accept the fact that I do not consider 'becayse I say so' as a valid argument.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Bolo_Yeung

[Yojiro]

Any answer serious in this thread, you mean? I've seen numerous threads in which you continue to hammer down on this pointless Anti-GS crusade with everyone else repeatedly putting you down with numbers. And yet you carry on with your droning, like a little kid covering his ears and going "LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

 

As for that little challenge of yours - please, feel free. On the Progenitor I can go toe to toe with Etri when he's on his GS (a fact of which I am quite happy to have achieved) and he's BY FAR out of your league when it comes to flying a GS. Don't overestimate yourself - the video you posted is proof enough. You are not god's gift to GSF.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Yojiro

[Yojiro]

However please accept the fact that I do not consider 'becayse I say so' as a valid argument.

 

Oh the irony!!!

[RickDagles]

Evasion Scout BLC/Cluster missile tips:

 

-only charge a gunship with a full engine bar, do not try to chase him around when you have almost zero engines. If your initial attack does not work, find LoS, recharge, and then take another charge at him.

-HOLD your cluster missile lock instead of releasing it. He has 2 missile breaks so it's not really worthwhile shooting your missiles on a good pilot until he blows both cooldowns. If he pops DF too early then great, start locking another cluster and then shoot it immediately. If he does not blow DF then zoom in and kill him up close with BLC while holding the cluster. His evasion will be very low without the aid of DF.

-it's a personal preference but consider swapping out running interference for wingman and changing your targetting telemetry T4 perk to 5% evasion dispel. You'll get 25% more accuracy which makes it hard to miss BLC shots. The problem with the evasion scout is that it still gets raped by railgun sentry drones.

-another personal preference - select 500m extra range on cluster missiles as well at the larger firing arc copilot. Select the level 5 DoT perk instead of double volley. I like this setup better because it's easier to keep the cluster missile lock tone held on the enemy, and when the missile does land it prevents him from regenerating shields for 12 seconds rather than 6 seconds.

 

 

 

I've flown with OP several times, he is a very good teammate and one of the better pilots on The Red Eclipse. I don't think this video is a true representation of his overall skill.

Edited February 27, 2015 by RickDagles

[Bolo_Yeung]

Any answer serious in this thread, you mean? I've seen numerous threads in which you continue to hammer down on this pointless Anti-GS crusade with everyone else repeatedly putting you down with numbers. And yet you carry on with your droning, like a little kid covering his ears and going "LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

Then why are you still here? Why do you feel so compelled to reply?

 

As for that little challenge of yours - please, feel free. On the Progenitor I can go toe to toe with Etri when he's on his GS (a fact of which I am quite happy to have achieved) and he's BY FAR out of your league when it comes to flying a GS. Don't overestimate yourself - the video you posted is proof enough. You are not god's gift to GSF.

 

Sure.

Edit: overseen the sig When are you up on Progenitor?

My characters on Progenitor: Urteon, Kapitanbomba (Rep), Rei-ko (imp)

Edited February 27, 2015 by Bolo_Yeung

[Verain]

Then why are you still here? Why do you feel so compelled to reply?

 

You're not the only person we're responding to, when we respond to you. The fact that your points have been responded to by many community members, the fact that your interpretation of events and facts that you lived through was corrected, because you read them wrong when they happened to you... is important.

 

We've done all we can. You can understand or not, it is up to you. But someone else stopping into the thread will not share your bias on entrance, and hopefully not on exit either.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Verain

[RatPoison]

And when - assume - one csout would kill his trget, the gunship in question respawns. Before victiorious scout can reacquire his target, respawned GS has a free shot time. Assume he manages to score 1-2 hits, that means 1-2 scouts practically disabled,

 

1vs1 - yes. 8v8 - not so simple as this.There will be always a moment of breath and good gunship pilot will use it to score a quick ion hit (or, as I said before, respawned one, temporarily without scout on his tail, giving another teammate a moment of breath... what happened when I left you for a moment?

 

However, this is purely hypothetical situation. I agree. We won't see a full scout team, for the reasons I posted above. What matters is the fact that GS+bombers combo (with variable numbers of either, depending on sutuation) beats aby other combination in TDM - and in long term, domination as well... turning, in the process, a space battle into turn based strategy (thats why I do hate GS dominated battles by the way...).

 

So mich of speaking of 'the most OP ship'.

 

The short response is that you're wrong. And the primary problem with your argument... beyond just making up the hypothetical to fit the outcome you want is presenting it in a format that you are the scout pilot and I am the gunship. And this is not meant as an insult, but you are not at or near the ceiling for what a battlescout can do. Even with that as your handicap, when my hull turned red ... I had to stack the deck to just get a chance to win, just a chance. You put any seasoned pilot into a gunship, and this becomes no contest.

 

Additionally, for when I am facing off against better to great scout pilots... I rarely get a jump on them. Once I've entered into range, unless they're distracted and/or I land my first shot plus no cover... odds are, I'm going to be in for a chase and looking for peels.

 

Again, I'm not trying to knock on yours or anybody's ability, but if we're going to have this type of conversation the differences in upgrades and pilot ability has a significant role in the overall outcome. All this video demonstrates is that once a scout has closed the gap on a gunship, the gunship has slim odds of winning.

Edited February 27, 2015 by RatPoison

[Drakkolich]

But - if you consider yourself a good scout pilot and have good toons on Jedi Convenant, Red Eclipse or Progenitor - let's see how fast will you kill me (I - in GS, you - in 'most OPed' battlescout) - and how much hits I will manage to score before.

 

I happen to have an almost but not quite mastered Flashfire on republic side on Progenitor and one a little over halfway requed up on Jedi covenant empire side. I'd love to take you up on this, could you tell me which of these servers you have the best Gunship on to oppose them and we can setup a time to queue against each other?

[Bolo_Yeung]

The short response is that you're wrong. And the primary problem with your argument... beyond just making up the hypothetical to fit the outcome you want is presenting it in a format that you are the scout pilot and I am the gunship. And this is not meant as an insult, but you are not at or near the ceiling for what a battlescout can do.

In short you say that you're *far* better than me - well, Possible... However, I am feeling the same way when facing a scout in GS myself - and when we met, we can try scout vs scout, or your scout vs my gunship to reverse roles.

 

Even with that as your handicap, when my hull turned red ... I had to stack the deck to just get a chance to win, just a chance. You put any seasoned pilot into a gunship, and this becomes no contest.

You meant 'put any seasoned pilot into a scout' I suppose?.... Again, I know it also from GS side. As I said, I will be later today on JC, we can test how the 'scout vs gunship' scenario will look. Or tomorrow. Whatever.

 

 

Again, I'm not trying to knock on yours or anybody's ability,

Didn't you just do it?

 

Additionally, for when I am facing off against better to great scout pilots... I rarely get a jump on them. Once I've entered into range, unless they're distracted and/or I land my first shot plus no cover... odds are, I'm going to be in for a chase and looking for peels.

but if we're going to have this type of conversation the differences in upgrades and pilot ability has a significant role in the overall outcome. All this video demonstrates is that once a scout has closed the gap on a gunship, the gunship has slim odds of winning.

 

Yes. In the most unfavorable scenario for the gunship - 1 vs 1 with both pilots aware of each other and no external help. 8v8 is a little different story, isn't it? And when enemy scouts focusing on you, in most of the matches you use your teammates for cover (this is not meant to offend you, it is exactly a tactic that should be done - this is about teamplay after all).

[Bolo_Yeung]

I happen to have an almost but not quite mastered Flashfire on republic side on Progenitor and one a little over halfway requed up on Jedi covenant empire side. I'd love to take you up on this, could you tell me which of these servers you have the best Gunship on to oppose them and we can setup a time to queue against each other?

 

Progenitor: Rei-ko on Imperial side, Urteon on Republic (those are mastered). I san go in right now if you wish.

JC: Blueghost'three. Nearly mastered T1, a little behind T3.

 

PS. sorry for double post, my mistake (quote instead of edit)

Edited February 27, 2015 by Bolo_Yeung

[RickDagles]

IMO comparing GS and Scout in a 1v1 situation is pointless. Even if the GS is better than the Scout in this situation, you are not taking into account that the scout has better overall DPS and has easier access to DO and other pickups. Also, I think the Scout has more use in Domination than GS. I mean, the GS can be very useful with ion railgun AoE, but he is also probably the worst ship at staying on a node. And that can mean a lot.