12 x XP for class-missions

[Djiini]

I don't see pushing back as being unnecessarily insulting. TUX was asking for reference material within the last 12 months, but refused to accept any of it. So, Ratajack prodded him to provide his own material ...

 

Before that, mate.

 

There's more to the thread than the last conversation that happened.

[ekwalizer]

Before that, mate.

 

There's more to the thread than the last conversation that happened.

 

Oh I know Ratajack has an "in your face" approach. But that doesn't make him wrong nor does it invalidate his views.

[Ashanor]

Putting 12x as a Legacy perk is definitely one of the options we discussed, among many. I believe that is what we had talked about in the past, (on a stream or at a cantina) that it was one of the possible options. As far as I know, it is not currently planned to implement that as a Legacy perk at this time.

 

-eric

 

Then get to planning!

[MandFlurry]

And no.

 

As I have pointed out, like a dozen times; I personally think that 12XP is too much. I would be more than happy to compromise at a more reasonable figure.

 

My stance has nothing to do with subscriptions. Whether you like it or not, you OPINION does not invalidate my OPINION and so on and so forth.

 

You ppl that are anit-12!@X don't really have a right to ur opinions, as 12X would Not Hurt, nor impact the way Non-12'ers play at all, All i do Notice is all this Bs you Anti-12X'ers are sayind/ crying has, again nothing to do with 12X, and all complaints about ppl saying there isn't enough Content happens all the time, and we DON'T even have 12X.

 

Stop ur damn crying , because FACT is it has Nothing to do with 12X xp if it ever got implemented. Also about ppl that might whine about not having enough Gear with 12X, again IS NOT the Ant-12X'ers problem, Nor does it have anything to do with them.

 

It will be solely up to 12X'ers responsibilities to take care of their Own Gear, no one elses. Any1 that would do 12X better have some 60's that can either craft gear, or do enough Dailies to make enough money for the ppl that do 12X to be able to Gear themselves appropriately.

 

Without 12X ppl still cry about Gear, when it's the players responsibility to get enough money for Gear.

 

Ppl complain with or without 12X Period, so all you Ant-12X'ers all you guys do is whine and complain about stuff that is already being complained about. Get over ur useless whinning and crying against 12X, it's useless when stuff is already being complained about.without 12X.

 

Ppl against 12X should make their Own Post with all the Gibberish.

[AdrianDmitruk]

You ppl that are anit-12!@X don't really have a right to ur opinions, as 12X would Not Hurt, nor impact the way Non-12'ers play at all, All i do Notice is all this Bs you Anti-12X'ers are sayind/ crying has, again nothing to do with 12X, and all complaints about ppl saying there isn't enough Content happens all the time, and we DON'T even have 12X.

 

Stop ur damn crying , because FACT is it has Nothing to do with 12X xp if it ever got implemented. Also about ppl that might whine about not having enough Gear with 12X, again IS NOT the Ant-12X'ers problem, Nor does it have anything to do with them.

 

It will be solely up to 12X'ers responsibilities to take care of their Own Gear, no one elses. Any1 that would do 12X better have some 60's that can either craft gear, or do enough Dailies to make enough money for the ppl that do 12X to be able to Gear themselves appropriately.

 

Without 12X ppl still cry about Gear, when it's the players responsibility to get enough money for Gear.

 

Ppl complain with or without 12X Period, so all you Ant-12X'ers all you guys do is whine and complain about stuff that is already being complained about. Get over ur useless whinning and crying against 12X, it's useless when stuff is already being complained about.without 12X.

 

Ppl against 12X should make their Own Post with all the Gibberish.

 

It's not just about "12xers don't have gear." They level so quickly they literally don't have enough time to learn their class before they cap.

 

12x was great for a slew of my level 50 alts, that I had already played with at 50 but then neglected post-RotHC, but I had already played those classes and had some familiarity with them. When 12x happened, however, it wasn't just people dusting off alts they left behind at the previous level cap. People made new alts (and who wouldn't? Even I made new opposite-faction mirror classes), and leveled so quickly they were still using a level 15 rotation at level 55, and wiping groups because they didn't know how to use the cooldowns they trained (or should have trained) in the 40s and/or they didn't meet enrage timers because they were so bad.

 

Gear can't fix a level 15 rotation at level 55 (or 60). Only time spent playing the class and learning it can do that, and 12x (as much as I enjoyed it personally) circumvented that by an easily noticeable magnitude.

[ekwalizer]

You ppl that are anit-12!@X don't really have a right to ur opinions, as 12X would Not Hurt, nor impact the way Non-12'ers play at all, All i do Notice is all this Bs you Anti-12X'ers are sayind/ crying has, again nothing to do with 12X, and all complaints about ppl saying there isn't enough Content happens all the time, and we DON'T even have 12X.

 

Stop ur damn crying , because FACT is it has Nothing to do with 12X xp if it ever got implemented. Also about ppl that might whine about not having enough Gear with 12X, again IS NOT the Ant-12X'ers problem, Nor does it have anything to do with them.

 

It will be solely up to 12X'ers responsibilities to take care of their Own Gear, no one elses. Any1 that would do 12X better have some 60's that can either craft gear, or do enough Dailies to make enough money for the ppl that do 12X to be able to Gear themselves appropriately.

 

Without 12X ppl still cry about Gear, when it's the players responsibility to get enough money for Gear.

 

Ppl complain with or without 12X Period, so all you Ant-12X'ers all you guys do is whine and complain about stuff that is already being complained about. Get over ur useless whinning and crying against 12X, it's useless when stuff is already being complained about.without 12X.

 

Ppl against 12X should make their Own Post with all the Gibberish.

 

First and foremost, I reserve the right at all times to hold any opinion that I please. Frankly, you have no say in that. YOU do not have the right, privilege, influence, authority nor the means to dictate my opinion to me.

 

2. Spelling and grammar are your friends if you want anyone to take you seriously. This forum has a built in spell checker, so that's just lazy.

 

3. I have pointed out ad nauseam that during the previous 12Xp two month event, the group finder was plagued with players in gear 10-15 levels junior to the content. YES, it IS their responsibility, but the balance of power between responsible gamers and irresponsible games shifted into the negative long ago. So, yes that hurts me and it would hurt anyone grouped with them. "But but but ... they won't be using the group finder!" Nonsense. I used the group finder every day of the last event - and every day there was Joe Snuffy in his level 33 greens confused about why he got killed in the first pull of HM Black Talon.

 

4. Without a significant tie to the legacy system, 12XP will mass-produce un-useful idiots. Go hang out on Corellia, Rishi or Yavin for a while ... right now ... and see how many questions that should have been asked on Dromund Kass are asked on these planets. I literally just had to go through basic arithmetic, timezones and how a clock works to convice a player that 2XP wasn't starting in "2 hours". So, that negatively impacts not just me, but it hurts them because they instantly find their way onto my ignore list. "Oh but you are just one player!" I am. I am one player with 7x max level tanks just on my "home" server. Given the massive under-representation of tanks in this game, if you wind up on one of their ignore lists, the queue time increases.

 

5. Every point you made, I can counter by simply reversing the points and directing them back to the pro-12 camp.

Edited April 16, 2015 by ekwalizer

[Savej]

It's not just about "12xers don't have gear." They level so quickly they literally don't have enough time to learn their class before they cap.

 

12x was great for a slew of my level 50 alts, that I had already played with at 50 but then neglected post-RotHC, but I had already played those classes and had some familiarity with them. When 12x happened, however, it wasn't just people dusting off alts they left behind at the previous level cap. People made new alts (and who wouldn't? Even I made new opposite-faction mirror classes), and leveled so quickly they were still using a level 15 rotation at level 55, and wiping groups because they didn't know how to use the cooldowns they trained (or should have trained) in the 40s and/or they didn't meet enrage timers because they were so bad.

 

Gear can't fix a level 15 rotation at level 55 (or 60). Only time spent playing the class and learning it can do that, and 12x (as much as I enjoyed it personally) circumvented that by an easily noticeable magnitude.

 

I've leveled characters (the slow way) to "cap" without any fine understanding of how to play them in pvp or fps/hms/raids. I've also become good at dpsing with some classes without knowing much more than the first thing about healing or tanking with their healing/tanking specs. Solo pve doesn't teach you much - it's long and repetitive and you can even pick up bad habits from doing it (bad rotations, ignore key abilities because you didn't need them with your companion, etc). 12x just gets much of the long/repetitive stuff out of the way. Lots of people are currently in pvp and pve qs without great appreciations of the finer points of their classes and without decent gear (gear is just about irrelevant in lowbie tactical fps and pvp anyways) - it's not the end of the world.

 

Personally, I used 12x to "move" (rebuild) my legacy to (on) another server without actually paying BW $ to transfer all of my characters to the other server.

[ekwalizer]

I've leveled characters (the slow way) to "cap" without any fine understanding of how to play them in pvp or fps/hms/raids. I've also become good at dpsing with some classes without knowing much more than the first thing about healing or tanking with their healing/tanking specs. Solo pve doesn't teach you much - it's long and repetitive and you can even pick up bad habits from doing it (bad rotations, ignore key abilities because you didn't need them with your companion, etc). 12x just gets much of the long/repetitive stuff out of the way. Lots of people are currently in pvp and pve qs without great appreciations of the finer points of their classes and without decent gear (gear is just about irrelevant in lowbie tactical fps and pvp anyways) - it's not the end of the world.

 

Personally, I used 12x to "move" (rebuild) my legacy to (on) another server without actually paying BW $ to transfer all of my characters to the other server.

 

While I can only speak for my self, I'd guess that most of the anit-12ers would be fine with 12Xp being limited to game promotions. Based on my signature I am certainly not diametrically opposed to increasing the leveling rate. What I am opposed to is players doing ~65 quests to reach level 50+.

 

Leveling definitely does not force a player to learn their chosen spec, but the time spent is meant to afford them the opportunity to learn said spec. Ya can't legislate stupid, if they choose to level up by spamming their basic attack, that is on them. But the pain of that is felt by others.

 

I don't want to get into the "pit falls" of group finders. They are what they are, and they are a reality in this game. As such they cannot be ignored or discounted as a valid reason not to allow a permanent means of 12XP. I'll stop bringing up the group finder if Bioware implements a true gear check across the board for group finder based content.

 

I do have a question for you though. The only 12XP event to date, lasted the better part of 2 months; not a weekend, not a week, two months. Why didn't you "move" your legacy then? I understand not wanting to shell out a couple hundred dollars to move a full server of toons, but I would recommend moving at least one so that all of your current legacy perks transfer. Assuming you haven't already used a referral signature for character movement, the first one is free.

[MandFlurry]

It's not just about "12xers don't have gear." They level so quickly they literally don't have enough time to learn their class before they cap.

 

12x was great for a slew of my level 50 alts, that I had already played with at 50 but then neglected post-RotHC, but I had already played those classes and had some familiarity with them. When 12x happened, however, it wasn't just people dusting off alts they left behind at the previous level cap. People made new alts (and who wouldn't? Even I made new opposite-faction mirror classes), and leveled so quickly they were still using a level 15 rotation at level 55, and wiping groups because they didn't know how to use the cooldowns they trained (or should have trained) in the 40s and/or they didn't meet enrage timers because they were so bad.

 

Gear can't fix a level 15 rotation at level 55 (or 60). Only time spent playing the class and learning it can do that, and 12x (as much as I enjoyed it personally) circumvented that by an easily noticeable magnitude.

 

 

What ur talking about is mostly a LIE, because i'd say when i was doing 12X those players KNEW What They Were Doing, and most would put normal players, maybe even you and other Anti-12X players to shame at how good those players were.

 

What I hate most is Liars, and along most other Anti-12X'ers have No right to complain about this issue, when Fact is that the already bad players were doing 12X also, these/ those are the same players that were around before 12X.

 

12X had NOTHING to do with bad players, because they were already that way to begin with, and didn't care to learn how to play. Ppl have No right to blame 12X for bad players when they were already bad players before 12X.

 

StTOP BLAMMING an Event on a small group of of ppl that had nothing to do with the 12X Event.

 

 

If we do get 12X the only things that we should complain about is some ppl Over-Inflaltitng prices on Gear items that this Company won't cap prices on gougers, then again Gougers gouge at any special even that pertains to More Xp anyway.

Edited April 16, 2015 by MandFlurry

[Savej]

...

 

I do have a question for you though. The only 12XP event to date, lasted the better part of 2 months; not a weekend, not a week, two months. Why didn't you "move" your legacy then? I understand not wanting to shell out a couple hundred dollars to move a full server of toons, but I would recommend moving at least one so that all of your current legacy perks transfer. Assuming you haven't already used a referral signature for character movement, the first one is free.

 

I have many characters on four servers and the first thing I did when moving to a new one was transfer one for the legacy/presence buffs. But I also like having all crafting skills and various alts available of my main class for event rep farming and a few other things.

 

For my part I'm basically done leveling alts (1-55). I will occasionally level one to revisit the class stories or do lowbie pvp (less cc spam, fewer premades - it's a fun break from regs at max) but this subject doesn't matter much to the greedy/selfish gamer in me. Nonetheless I do feel strongly that the same options I exercised should be available to others and I think many/most of the concerns raised about 12x repercussions or whatever are just hogwash. But if anything, the selfish gamer in me does want more players running around with max level characters (faster qs) and not running around leveling alts.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Savej

[Edzew]

It's not just about "12xers don't have gear." They level so quickly they literally don't have enough time to learn their class before they cap..

 

you do know there are people now reaching max level, leveling the slow way that have no clue how to play their class right?? it dont matter how fast or slow you reach max level there will always be people that have no clue how to play their class for end game content. its up to the vets, guild members, and experienced players to teach them.

 

 

the reason you saw so many more people that didn't know how to play their class during the 12x XP was because there WAS MORE PLAYERS at that time. its kinda common since, the more players you have in game the more people you will have that wont know how to play their class. the fewer players you have the fewer people you will have not knowing how to play their class.

 

so what would you rather have?? more players in game or fewer players in game??

 

the more you have in game will help sustain the longevity of the game! if you keep having fewer and fewer players in game the game wont last and die off.

[Edzew]

 

2. Spelling and grammar are your friends if you want anyone to take you seriously. This forum has a built in spell checker, so that's just lazy.

.

 

i think a lot of people are posting from their phone so grammar and spelling isn't always that great, especially with auto correct on.

[Ruskaeth]

Maybe Devs will introduce 12 x Exp in some form to shut Rataspammer up?

[ekwalizer]

you do know there are people now reaching max level, leveling the slow way that have no clue how to play their class right?? it dont matter how fast or slow you reach max level there will always be people that have no clue how to play their class for end game content. its up to the vets, guild members, and experienced players to teach them.

 

So your solution to this is to create more?

 

 

The reason you saw so many more people that didn't know how to play their class during the 12x XP was because there WAS MORE PLAYERS at that time. its kinda common since, the more players you have in game the more people you will have that wont know how to play their class. the fewer players you have the fewer people you will have not knowing how to play their class.

 

So what would you rather have?? more players in game or fewer players in game??

 

And where are these people now?

 

The more you have in game will help sustain the longevity of the game! if you keep having fewer and fewer players in game the game wont last and die off.

 

That is not even remotely verifiable. The first three financial quarters of 2014 SWTOR raked in 106 million dollars. Anecdotally, SWG lasted for many years after the population exodus.

[ekwalizer]

I have many characters on four servers and the first thing I did when moving to a new one was transfer one for the legacy/presence buffs. But I also like having all crafting skills and various alts available of my main class for event rep farming and a few other things.

 

For my part I'm basically done leveling alts (1-55). I will occasionally level one to revisit the class stories or do lowbie pvp (less cc spam, fewer premades - it's a fun break from regs at max) but this subject doesn't matter much to the greedy/selfish gamer in me. Nonetheless I do feel strongly that the same options I exercised should be available to others and I think many/most of the concerns raised about 12x repercussions or whatever are just hogwash. But if anything, the selfish gamer in me does want more players running around with max level characters (faster qs) and not running around leveling alts.

 

Fair enough, but has there been something stopping them from doing just that since December 2011?

[Ruskaeth]

So your solution to this is to create more?

Bit of an elitist are you? More people at 60?! You are literally suggesting people playing multiple classes on level 60 makes them worse players. This must be your first MMO.

[ekwalizer]

If we do get 12X the only things that we should complain about is some ppl Over-Inflaltitng prices on Gear items that this Company won't cap prices on gougers, then again Gougers gouge at any special even that pertains to More Xp anyway.

 

You don't have the right to complain about that because credits and price gouging existed before 12XP. See what I did there?

[ekwalizer]

Bit of an elitist are you? More people at 60?! You are literally suggesting people playing multiple classes on level 60 makes them worse players. This must be your first MMO.

 

No and No.

 

I guess I should have been more clear. I was asking if that players solution to bad players is mass-producing bad players.

[Edzew]

So your solution to this is to create more?

 

 

 

 

And where are these people now?

 

 

 

That is not even remotely verifiable. The first three financial quarters of 2014 SWTOR raked in 106 million dollars. Anecdotally, SWG lasted for many years after the population exodus.

 

 

to create more players??? yes!!! this game needs more players!!! why would it need less?? again amount of time in game leveling dose not = knowing how to play your class! and again what would you rather have?? more players or very few players??

 

 

they are in the same place as 12x XP is... gone why stick around if the reason you are here in the first place is gone??

 

 

huh?? what?? you dont think its verifiable that if you have more players in game (when i say players i mean subscribers) that it would be better for the game?? and if the game keeps loosing players that it wont die out and get shut down?? o yea sure SWG lasted for a LONG time after the NGE hit BUT you could go hours without ever seeing another player on a once highly populated planet, it would be like going to fleet and not seeing another player for an hour!!! but then again SWG even with the NGE was something special and unique. this game?? not so much.

[EllieAnne]

No and No.

 

I guess I should have been more clear. I was asking if that players solution to bad players is mass-producing bad players.

 

I seriously don't get this. So you want more low-level players to increase planet populations/grouping opportunities/etc. We point out that players not knowing their class is independent of 12xXP but at east 12xXP will get more alts on those planets even if for a little while*. But you're not satified with that so what is YOUR solution for getting what you want viz. more low-level players that know their class?

 

 

 

*The first 12xXP being temporary is not a good indicator of what players will do if it were to be permanent so you don't feel like you have to rush through the class missions.

[Djiini]

No and No.

 

I guess I should have been more clear. I was asking if that players solution to bad players is mass-producing bad players.

 

Mass producing (bad) players is a solution to there not BEING ENOUGH PLAYER, not to there being bad players.

[TheWookiee]

I get the premise behind wanting 12XP on the class missions, but this is something that should be left for special occasions. If it could come back once a year for a couple of weeks, that would be great.

 

I would, however, like to see the legacy XP bonuses be revised and increased a bit. Remove the class xp, warzone, spaceship, exploration, etc. boost and make it an all inclusive xp buff for everything that can be turned on and off like the class buff.

[SelinaH]

You don't have the right to complain about that because credits and price gouging existed before 12XP. See what I did there?

Well, technically, he/she has the right to complain about anything concerning the game. That doesn't mean the complaints have merit.

 

I still find it puzzling that people get angry about "overpriced" crafted leveling gear. If it costs too much, why not make it yourself?

[ekwalizer]

to create more players??? yes!!! this game needs more players!!! why would it need less?? again amount of time in game leveling dose not = knowing how to play your class! and again what would you rather have?? more players or very few players??

 

they are in the same place as 12x XP is... gone why stick around if the reason you are here in the first place is gone??

 

huh?? what?? you dont think its verifiable that if you have more players in game (when i say players i mean subscribers) that it would be better for the game?? and if the game keeps loosing players that it wont die out and get shut down?? o yea sure SWG lasted for a LONG time after the NGE hit BUT you could go hours without ever seeing another player on a once highly populated planet, it would be like going to fleet and not seeing another player for an hour!!! but then again SWG even with the NGE was something special and unique. this game?? not so much.

 

I guess that is just where we are going to disagree. Those players that left after 12XP didn't like the game enough to stick around afterward, so there is no guarantee that any would stick around after they have met their own personal leveling goals.

 

Edit: Most of them didn't even stick around on the character(s) they leveled.

 

I do not support a plan to mass-produce bad players in the name of generating more "potential" players. There was no long standing population gain as a result of 12XP. Therefore there is no indication that a permanent 12XP solution would result in a higher permanent player base.

Edited April 16, 2015 by ekwalizer

[ekwalizer]

Well, technically, he/she has the right to complain about anything concerning the game. That doesn't mean the complaints have merit.

 

I still find it puzzling that people get angry about "overpriced" crafted leveling gear. If it costs too much, why not make it yourself?

 

I said it because twice on this page he has said that the anti-12ers "don't have the right" to their opinion.