12 x XP for class-missions

[Ratajack]

#1 What people should talk about is the threshold to open the 12 x class EXP, not if it should exist.

 

#2 Make it cost 1500 Cartel Coins per character (have to buy the perk for every character).

 

#3 Require Legacy level 50.

 

#4 Request x - amount of characters at max level to open it alongside Legacy level 50.

 

My opinion is that anyone with Legacy level 50 and all advanced classes on max level (rep or imp, as they are mirrors) has proven how grind savvy they are. It's not taken away from me at all if those players could only play the class story to level more characters. It's not like a fresh player could jump to max level then, is it now? And to everyone arguing that "people just don't want to do the work"... you are right. That's the whole point of 12x EXP. Doing those side quests, KDY or whatever to level might not feel like "fun but work" and game should be fun. I have duplicates of classes at 60. Nineteen characters at 60 on TRE for an example. I do not need this but I want to be vocal supporter of 12 x Class Exp unlock with suggested requirements, for an example.

 

The last time I checked 12XP was NOT a foregone conclusion and therefore we must address the "should it even exist" issue. It seems that the devs have so far decided that it should NOT exist, as we do not have it at this time. I happen to agree with their decision.

 

Let me guess. You "just happen" to meet those qualifications which you put forth.

 

One of the common themes in this thread and others like it, seems to be that anyone who wants to put forth "qualifications" for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" miraculously meet those requirements. It's almost as if they were simply trying to insure that THEY could have that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" while attempting to look like they were actually trying to address the concerns held by those against such a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", and also restrict others from having that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level".

 

IMO, if you want that new character, then out forth the minimal effort required to level it. It helps if you make judicious use of rested XP, the currently available XP boosts and the double XP weekends when they come around.

[Celwinn]

Why are people against 12x XP?

 

Does it hurt your game experience in anyway?

 

For those who have yet to experience all of the class stories (but don't want to level through the same planet story quest lines for the 100th time), this is a great way to do that.

 

And for the "argument" that it is fast and easy way to level, you do realize 12x XP gimps us right? We level through the planets quickly, thus skipping alot of Comms and Credits. Once we hit 47 (or the end of the story), we will have to spend more credits to gear our toons for Makeb.

[Ruskaeth]

The last time I checked 12XP was NOT a foregone conclusion and therefore we must address the "should it even exist" issue. It seems that the devs have so far decided that it should NOT exist, as we do not have it at this time. I happen to agree with their decision.

I guess you missed the big point about people petitioning for it to begin with. Please do take this fact with you: People rarely petition to get a feature already part of the game.

 

Let me guess. You "just happen" to meet those qualifications which you put forth.

I meet every qualification they could imagine if it can be acquired by grinding. You would not believe it if you saw my account. I especially wrote I have no use for 12 x EXP myself. You opt not to believe me and then build a straw house of arguments on that. Keep going genius: "He must be lying to acquire personal benefit!".

 

One of the common themes in this thread and others like it, seems to be that anyone who wants to put forth "qualifications" for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" miraculously meet those requirements. It's almost as if they were simply trying to insure that THEY could have that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" while attempting to look like they were actually trying to address the concerns held by those against such a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", and also restrict others from having that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level".

-yawn- So being for 12 x EXP automatically means I will benefit from it? I just think it's a sensible thing for people who have already grinded massively. At some point people who have already done the side quests 20 times just don't want to do them again because it's work and not fun gaming after it's too repetitive. You are right about one thing, they do not want to do the work. I however understand them and you opt not to understand them. They want to enjoy the story. By your logic, all complaints about story mode operations being too hard are invalid. People should do the work required to complete them!

 

IMO, if you want that new character, then out forth the minimal effort required to level it. It helps if you make judicious use of rested XP, the currently available XP boosts and the double XP weekends when they come around.

This is purely theoretical. I do believe there are a lot of people who would like to play the class quests again after having leveled over 20 characters to level 60, for an example. They might just not want to do the side quest grind and opt to stop playing and unsubscribe. Even I might enjoy playing some class quest for the story.

[Ruskaeth]

Why are people against 12x XP?

I can't bring my head around that either. There is however one thing to take into consideration with this: There are third parties leeching off people by offering leveling services for x-amount of real life currency. I have seen them spam on general. I really, really dislike that and perhaps 12 x EXP for class missions as a character perk would cause more CC being sold by BW instead of third party harvesting the benefits. I also think this should weight a lot when BW is making the decision.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[ekwalizer]

Why are people against 12x XP?

 

Does it hurt your game experience in anyway?

 

For those who have yet to experience all of the class stories (but don't want to level through the same planet story quest lines for the 100th time), this is a great way to do that.

 

And for the "argument" that it is fast and easy way to level, you do realize 12x XP gimps us right? We level through the planets quickly, thus skipping alot of Comms and Credits. Once we hit 47 (or the end of the story), we will have to spend more credits to gear our toons for Makeb.

 

Yes, it does hurt my game experience. We must endure a disproportionate number of level 50-60s queuing for HMFPs in level 35 greens.

 

How can you have seen anything for the "100th" time if you haven't completed all the stories? Seems more fitting to say "for the 4th (5th) (6th) (7th) (etc) time". I get exaggeration, but over-exaggeration tends to kill most points made in exaggeration.

[Ruskaeth]

Yes, it does hurt my game experience. We must endure a disproportionate number of level 50-60s queuing for HMFPs in level 35 greens.

That is one of the reasons why I want there to be restrictions to use the character perk. I would expect people with all advanced classes at max level would easily harvest leftover gear via Legacy Gear to their newly leveled characters. I know a lot of people who have dozen or more characters at 60 and they all transfer gear to their characters around lvl 50-55-60 to make things more pleasant. That might not be the norm, but I have seen it happen more than not. Ie. the restrictions should there be also to make sure people have resources to help their characters at lvl 50-60 to not be burden for other players.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[Ratajack]

That is one of the reasons why I want there to be restrictions to use the character perk. I would expect people with all advanced classes at max level would easily harvest leftover gear via Legacy Gear to their newly leveled characters. I know a lot of people who have dozen or more characters at 60 and they all transfer gear to their characters around lvl 50-55-60 to make things more pleasant. That might not be the norm, but I have seen it happen more than not. Ie. the restrictions should there be also to make sure people have resources to help their characters at lvl 50-60 to not be burden for other players.

 

Why would those players even be queuing for HM Fp's and OP's if their only concern is to see those stories?

 

Or are you saying that you are advocating a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" for reasons other than the stories, despite your earlier claims. Allow me to quote you:

 

I guess you missed the big point about people petitioning for it to begin with. Please do take this fact with you: People rarely petition to get a feature already part of the game.

 

 

I meet every qualification they could imagine if it can be acquired by grinding. You would not believe it if you saw my account. I especially wrote I have no use for 12 x EXP myself. You opt not to believe me and then build a straw house of arguments on that. Keep going genius: "He must be lying to acquire personal benefit!".

 

 

-yawn- So being for 12 x EXP automatically means I will benefit from it? I just think it's a sensible thing for people who have already grinded massively. At some point people who have already done the side quests 20 times just don't want to do them again because it's work and not fun gaming after it's too repetitive. You are right about one thing, they do not want to do the work. I however understand them and you opt not to understand them. They want to enjoy the story. By your logic, all complaints about story mode operations being too hard are invalid. People should do the work required to complete them!

 

 

This is purely theoretical. I do believe there are a lot of people who would like to play the class quests again after having leveled over 20 characters to level 60, for an example. They might just not want to do the side quest grind and opt to stop playing and unsubscribe. Even I might enjoy playing some class quest for the story.

[ekwalizer]

One of the common themes in this thread and others like it, seems to be that anyone who wants to put forth "qualifications" for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" miraculously meet those requirements. It's almost as if they were simply trying to insure that THEY could have that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" while attempting to look like they were actually trying to address the concerns held by those against such a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", and also restrict others from having that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level".

 

Rat,

 

I have to agree with Rusk on this one. I meet every qualification Bioware could possibly come up with; I'm legacy level 50 on all NA Servers. I can spend $13.00 to move one toon with a bank full pre-filled legacy gear and not worry about gear for any toon or their companion until max level. Not only can I do it, I have done it repeatedly.

 

I do not support direct-to-12XP, but I do support making our Legacies more meaningful.

 

Wouldn't you agree that Legacy Level 50 should mean something? It currently doesn't. Wouldn't you agree that those in the LL50 demographic have beyond demonstrated their understanding of and commitment to the game?

 

Before you try to call *me* lazy, take into account that right now, I am hap-hap-happily rolling new toons on a server that gives me no legacy bonus. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me lazy. And quite frankly, name calling is a sign of a weak argument or the inability to clearly articulate your point. You have, time and again made very valid, very truthful, very logical and very cogent arguments. I'm simply advising you to tone down the "lazy, light-speed", easy mode" rhetoric before your opinion is discounted prior to even being analyzed.

 

We wouldn't even be having this discussion had the provider not granted 12XP for a two month period in the first place. Bioware/EA made that decision, not these players. I'm sorry forum debating team mate, but that bell cannot be un-rung. This is a valid conversation to have and Bioware, not the pro-12ers opened it. The best we can do in this discussion is try to push it into acceptable terms. You jumping up and down screaming "NO!" is no different than them jumping up and down screaming "YES!".

 

Bioware already knows that their options are:

a.) Never implement permanent 12XP

b.) Only use it for marketing gimmicks (my preferred method)

c.) Implement it full time for all subscribers (my least favorite course of action)

d.) Implement it in such a manner that the most customers will accept and the least will object.

 

I am 100% fine with A and B. I outright reject and will oppose C. I suspect that you feel the same way. But if it is D, I'd like to have input into how it is handled. Wouldn't you?

 

This isn't a "hard-core" game. It doesn't even have ONE hard-core rules server. We openly give Bind on Pickup or previously bound item modifications to our other toons via legacy shells. As long as it is correctly implemented, 12XP will not ruin the game. If it never happens, great! But if it does happen, don't you want to have a voice in how to handle it properly?

[Ratajack]

Rat,

 

I have to agree with Rusk on this one. I meet every qualification Bioware could possibly come up with; I'm legacy level 50 on all NA Servers. I can spend $13.00 to move one toon with a bank full pre-filled legacy gear and not worry about gear for any toon or their companion until max level. Not only can I do it, I have done it repeatedly.

 

I do not support direct-to-12XP, but I do support making our Legacies more meaningful.

 

Wouldn't you agree that Legacy Level 50 should mean something? It currently doesn't. Wouldn't you agree that those in the LL50 demographic have beyond demonstrated their understanding of and commitment to the game?

 

I did not mean to imply that everyone who puts forth suggested requirements has ulterior motives. Many of those proposing "requirements" do have those ulterior motives, though. Some even want no requirements.

 

I also agree that LL50 should mean something and there should be more reward for having reached LL50. I just do not think that a 12 XP. or even a 6XP, boost is the proper reward, though.

 

Before you try to call *me* lazy, take into account that right now, I am hap-hap-happily rolling new toons on a server that gives me no legacy bonus. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me lazy. And quite frankly, name calling is a sign of a weak argument or the inability to clearly articulate your point. You have, time and again made very valid, very truthful, very logical and very cogent arguments. I'm simply advising you to tone down the "lazy, light-speed", easy mode" rhetoric before your opinion is discounted prior to even being analyzed.

 

Obviously, you are not averse to the effort of leveling those characters, so I would not use that term to describe you.

 

We wouldn't even be having this discussion had the provider not granted 12XP for a two month period in the first place. Bioware/EA made that decision, not these players. I'm sorry forum debating team mate, but that bell cannot be un-rung. This is a valid conversation to have and Bioware, not the pro-12ers opened it. The best we can do in this discussion is try to push it into acceptable terms. You jumping up and down screaming "NO!" is no different than them jumping up and down screaming "YES!".

 

Agreed. BW cracked that can of worms when they gave the mice that particular cookie.

 

Where we disagree is that it is the mice, however, are the ones who were not satisfied with a GIFT and chose to completely open and perpetuate that can of worms.

 

Bioware already knows that their options are:

a.) Never implement permanent 12XP

b.) Only use it for marketing gimmicks (my preferred method)

c.) Implement it full time for all subscribers (my least favorite course of action)

d.) Implement it in such a manner that the most customers will accept and the least will object.

 

I am 100% fine with A and B. I outright reject and will oppose C. I suspect that you feel the same way. But if it is D, I'd like to have input into how it is handled. Wouldn't you?

 

I agree with you with regards to A and B being the best two options, IMO. I also will oppose C.

 

With regards to D, however, we have already seen that many will not be satisfied with a requirement of legacy 50, and some will not be satisfied with ANY requirements. I think it is safe to say that those in favor of a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" will not be satisfied with any requirements they do not personally meet.

 

Those against such a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" would likely prefer as strict a requirement as possible, should it be implemented.

 

Does that "happy medium" even exist and if it does, where does BW find it? I don't know.

 

This isn't a "hard-core" game. It doesn't even have ONE hard-core rules server. We openly give Bind on Pickup or previously bound item modifications to our other toons via legacy shells. As long as it is correctly implemented, 12XP will not ruin the game. If it never happens, great! But if it does happen, don't you want to have a voice in how to handle it properly?

 

This is not a hard core game, true. Is the already overly casual nature of this game reason to dumb it down even further and hand those mice even more cookies, even though we already know it will never be enough for the mice?

 

Where do the mice's demands end? Can we ever expect those demands to end if BW continues to give the mice their cookies?

[ivanhedgehog]

Yes, it does hurt my game experience. We must endure a disproportionate number of level 50-60s queuing for HMFPs in level 35 greens.

 

How can you have seen anything for the "100th" time if you haven't completed all the stories? Seems more fitting to say "for the 4th (5th) (6th) (7th) (etc) time". I get exaggeration, but over-exaggeration tends to kill most points made in exaggeration.

 

people leveling in pvp(and pvp as a whole) hurts my gaming experience. they are undergeared for pve and dont know how to pve properly. maybe there should be a test administered at level 10,20,30,40,50. if you dont pass and show you know how to play "properly" you get deleveled 10 and have to do it over.

What the anti 12vers want is to tell you how you must play, but they are too lazy to make their own game. they want "light speed, easy mode' dev status. they dont want to put in the minimal time and money to be able to dictate to other players.

[Ratajack]

people leveling in pvp(and pvp as a whole) hurts my gaming experience. they are undergeared for pve and dont know how to pve properly. maybe there should be a test administered at level 10,20,30,40,50. if you dont pass and show you know how to play "properly" you get deleveled 10 and have to do it over.

What the anti 12vers want is to tell you how you must play, but they are too lazy to make their own game. they want "light speed, easy mode' dev status. they dont want to put in the minimal time and money to be able to dictate to other players.

 

Actually, we're not telling anyone how to play the game. That would be the devs. The devs would be the ones who set the rules, not me or anyone else against 12XP. We're simply asking the devs NOT to change their game. We're asking that the devs NOT cater to the "entitled, instant gratification, have to have it now and for as little effort or cost as possible" crowd.

 

Remember, we're not the ones demanding that the devs change the game to cater to our aversion to the minimal effort required to level those alts.

 

Feel free to create your own game with that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", unless you are too averse to the effort required to do so, that is.

[Clarian]

I meet every qualification Bioware could possibly come up with;

The trick with 12x xp, if they ever offer it, would be how to do it without losing money. (Or, technically, not losing money - but foregoing revenue.) The way to avoid losing money would be: restrict the purchase of it to people from whom it would mean getting more money from them rather than less. Nearly any kind of requirement would be better than nothing, but "better than nothing" might not be good enough - it could still mean losing money, just not as much.

 

Probably the best suggestion I've seen, is: bundle it with a 12-month subscription - either pre-paid, or just a commitment for 12 months that can't be cancelled.

 

The reason I think that's the best idea (so far) is that it's forward looking rather than backward looking. What matters here isn't what you've done in the past, but what you're going to do (or not going to do) in the future.

 

A legacy level requirement might not be so bad if it motivated a lot of people who weren't there yet to put a lot of time into the game to get there. But for the people who are already there, you could be foregoing revenue by giving it to them - so it would depend on what percentage of people are already there whether that would be worth it. Also, probably the majority of people who want 12x xp are by that fact already demonstrating they're not interested in putting a lot of time into the game, so they might well balk at that kind of requirement...

[Grayseven]

Actually, we're not telling anyone how to play the game. That would be the devs. The devs would be the ones who set the rules, not me or anyone else against 12XP. We're simply asking the devs NOT to change their game. We're asking that the devs NOT cater to the "entitled, instant gratification, have to have it now and for as little effort or cost as possible" crowd.

 

Remember, we're not the ones demanding that the devs change the game to cater to our aversion to the minimal effort required to level those alts.

 

Feel free to create your own game with that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", unless you are too averse to the effort required to do so, that is.

 

The Dev's already changed the game when they added in the 12x xp. Even if it were for a limited time, the simple fact remains that they understand how god-awful boring and time consuming leveling toons after having done it a few times really is.

 

I've done it both ways and continue to level a few character's here and there, mostly for mid-level PvP..."Logan's Run" toons that get deleted and start over once they out level mid's or lowbie PvP. Having 12x xp available won't affect my game any more or less than it will anyone else's, because what other people do doesn't hurt anyone else.

 

The tired argument about people not knowing how to play their class or entering end-game FP's with level 35 gear is hyperbole. That kind of stuff happens without 12x and won't happen any more or less with it. There will always be people who don't know how to play their class and it has nothing to do with how fast or easy they level and everything to do with how they approach the game.

 

There is no effort in leveling, only time spent. I don't care if people do it the long way or the short way, but I'm not going to get on a high horse and call people lazy or entitled if they want back something the Dev's already gave them once.

[Ratajack]

The Dev's already changed the game when they added in the 12x xp. Even if it were for a limited time, the simple fact remains that they understand how god-awful boring and time consuming leveling toons after having done it a few times really is.

 

I've done it both ways and continue to level a few character's here and there, mostly for mid-level PvP..."Logan's Run" toons that get deleted and start over once they out level mid's or lowbie PvP. Having 12x xp available won't affect my game any more or less than it will anyone else's, because what other people do doesn't hurt anyone else.

 

The tired argument about people not knowing how to play their class or entering end-game FP's with level 35 gear is hyperbole. That kind of stuff happens without 12x and won't happen any more or less with it. There will always be people who don't know how to play their class and it has nothing to do with how fast or easy they level and everything to do with how they approach the game.

 

There is no effort in leveling, only time spent. I don't care if people do it the long way or the short way, but I'm not going to get on a high horse and call people lazy or entitled if they want back something the Dev's already gave them once.

 

When you take the timing of the 12XP perk into account, IMO, it had nothing to do with the devs understanding "how god-awful boring and time consuming leveling toons after having done it a few times really is".

 

IMO, it was all about giving players that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" right before the new expansion with the increased level cap was released. This way those new players or those players that wanted to try new classes could do so and would likely be able to be 55 before SoR was released, thereby ensuring that as few players as possible were held back or prevented from getting to that new content.

 

When someone gives you a birthday present or a Christmas present, do you think you are entitled to get another present every day, just because that someone gave you a present ONCE? I would hope not.

 

The devs gave those mice a GIFT, in the form of a 12XP bonus. The mice now feel they are entitled to that 12XP on a permanent basis. In a nutshell, that is what this is all about. The mice feel entitled to get a gift everyday, simply because they got a gift ONCE.

[Ruskaeth]

Why would those players even be queuing for HM Fp's and OP's if their only concern is to see those stories?

 

Or are you saying that you are advocating a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" for reasons other than the stories, despite your earlier claims. Allow me to quote you:

a) I never said only reason to level one is to see the stories. I have over and over said repeating side quests is tiresome at best after doing those for the 20th time. But again, keep slicing, dicing and ignoring whatever parts do not fit to your straw grasping and do your best point about "lazy people" again, again, and again, and to remind us, dozen times more like you have already spammed this thread before. It almost looks like you have something personal to lose if 12x EXP is implemented...

 

b) I replied to someone who worried that people would queue with crap gear at those levels if 12x EXP for class missions was a thing. What I said was based on my own experience and what I have seen. You are trying to take things out of context, notice the "trying" and give it emphasis. How is it working for you now?

 

Furthermore, I think people desperately grasping for straws against 12 x EXP with class stories with whatever restrictions are super casuals who are afraid they will never meet said demands to be able to utilize it. I think envy is the key word here folks. "I resist because it might not ably to me, I have not grinded enough to qualify... so no one else should get the benefit even if they have grinded. QQ, QQ and more QQ... aaaaaw, lets try to make it look like people who ask for restrictions are the baaaad ones and hope this never happens at all... QQ... QQ."

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[ekwalizer]

I did not mean to imply that everyone who puts forth suggested requirements has ulterior motives. Many of those proposing "requirements" do have those ulterior motives, though. Some even want no requirements.

 

I also agree that LL50 should mean something and there should be more reward for having reached LL50. I just do not think that a 12 XP. or even a 6XP, boost is the proper reward, though.

 

Agreed. BW cracked that can of worms when they gave the mice that particular cookie.

 

Where we disagree is that it is the mice, however, are the ones who were not satisfied with a GIFT and chose to completely open and perpetuate that can of worms.

 

Bioware already knows that their options are:

a.) Never implement permanent 12XP

b.) Only use it for marketing gimmicks (my preferred method)

c.) Implement it full time for all subscribers (my least favorite course of action)

d.) Implement it in such a manner that the most customers will accept and the least will object.

 

I am 100% fine with A and B. I outright reject and will oppose C. I suspect that you feel the same way. But if it is D, I'd like to have input into how it is handled. Wouldn't you?

 

I agree with you with regards to A and B being the best two options, IMO. I also will oppose C.

 

With regards to D, however, we have already seen that many will not be satisfied with a requirement of legacy 50, and some will not be satisfied with ANY requirements. I think it is safe to say that those in favor of a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" will not be satisfied with any requirements they do not personally meet.

 

Those against such a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" would likely prefer as strict a requirement as possible, should it be implemented.

 

Does that "happy medium" even exist and if it does, where does BW find it? I don't know.

 

This is not a hard core game, true. Is the already overly casual nature of this game reason to dumb it down even further and hand those mice even more cookies, even though we already know it will never be enough for the mice?

 

Where do the mice's demands end? Can we ever expect those demands to end if BW continues to give the mice their cookies?

 

I'm just saying, let's tone down the rhetoric and not be so quick to assign the same motivation to all pro-12ers.

 

I fully agree, some players sense of entitlement will never be satiated. I could make references to lunatics running the asylum or negotiating with terrorists but we are on the same sheet of music for this point. Brilliant Christmas present analogy by the way. Spot on.

[ekwalizer]

I always laugh when I see the "I just want to play my KOTOR3 story" argument. Let me break down why that argument is patently and indisputably a false equivalency (and as such deserves no weight):

 

Both KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 were chock full of side quests to augment the XP needed to level up. Every one of the jedi-making side quests in KOTOR2 was optional. But I'm sure most of those same players would argue that those quests are instrumental in developing their character. In KOTOR 1 you get your choice of 3 starter classes and 3 prestige classes. Any path you choose still offers Male/Female/Light/Dark decisions. KOTOR2 is the same way, but the prestige class options are 6 rather than 3. I don't recall Bioware or Obsidion patching in "12XP" so players of the KOTOR franchise could just do the "story" arc. After all, there is only a one required mission per planet. In this game you have no less than 3 required missions per planet (excluding Quesh which is 1).

 

"But, but but, this time through KOTOR2 I want to play a female consular who turns to the darkside". Well, you have to play through the entire game again with no bonus from the developers.

 

So if players are making the KOTOR3 argument, they have to accept the leveling mechanism for the rest of that franchise. Neither KOTOR1 nor KOTOR2 offer accelerated leveling without the use of cheat commands. Why should their "KOTOR3" be treated differently?

 

And before someone asks. No, you cannot have cheat codes.

[ekwalizer]

people leveling in pvp(and pvp as a whole) hurts my gaming experience. they are undergeared for pve and dont know how to pve properly. maybe there should be a test administered at level 10,20,30,40,50. if you dont pass and show you know how to play "properly" you get deleveled 10 and have to do it over.

What the anti 12vers want is to tell you how you must play, but they are too lazy to make their own game. they want "light speed, easy mode' dev status. they dont want to put in the minimal time and money to be able to dictate to other players.

 

0/10.

Appropriate level PvP gear is adequate in most PvE scenarios. So that is a false narrative.

 

I'm pretty sure most people in the PvP community will take great offense with your assessment that PvP doesn't teach the necessary PvE skills. Not only does PvP teach PvE fundamentals, it reinforces them at a near constant rate. Where else will you find nearly every participant using interrupts, situation appropriate CCs, judicious use of their escape ability (ie use when necessary and saving it when you don't need to pop it), and focus fire. So that is a false narrative.

 

Forced Deleveling?

 

You should be less obvious in your trolling.

[ekwalizer]

That is one of the reasons why I want there to be restrictions to use the character perk. I would expect people with all advanced classes at max level would easily harvest leftover gear via Legacy Gear to their newly leveled characters. I know a lot of people who have dozen or more characters at 60 and they all transfer gear to their characters around lvl 50-55-60 to make things more pleasant. That might not be the norm, but I have seen it happen more than not. Ie. the restrictions should there be also to make sure people have resources to help their characters at lvl 50-60 to not be burden for other players.

 

This is what I do. But 12XP for subscribers means all subscribers. The guy who just subscribed with no legacy support toons is who I am talking about. That person will find their way into a HMFP queue with me and I will either have to carry them if I can or kick them if I can't.

 

The team should not have to make the decision that John Q Public "can't" contribute to the team. There certainly needs to be an average gear score requirement for every tier of the Group Finder - ie Level 50 SM should be average 126. Level 50 HM should be average 140 (Available via Basic Comms at level 50). Level 55 SM should be average 148 (172s are available via Basic Comms at level 55). Level 55 HM should be average 156 (nearly a full set is given for the Oricon story, but like I said 172s are available as soon as you hit 55). Level 60 SM should be average of 178 (which is given freely from SoR). Level 60 HM should be average 186 (available via crafting at 58 or Basic Comms at 60). If you don't meet it, tough luck you shouldn't get the option to queue via GF, get better gear. There is absolutely no reason why someone should be allowed to join a Hard Mode without the requisite gearscore. But that is a different conversation for a different thread.

[Ruskaeth]

This is what I do. But 12XP for subscribers means all subscribers. The guy who just subscribed with no legacy support toons is who I am talking about. That person will find their way into a HMFP queue with me and I will either have to carry them if I can or kick them if I can't.

 

The team should not have to make the decision that John Q Public "can't" contribute to the team. There certainly needs to be an average gear score requirement for every tier of the Group Finder - ie Level 50 SM should be average 126. Level 50 HM should be average 140 (Available via Basic Comms at level 50). Level 55 SM should be average 148 (172s are available via Basic Comms at level 55). Level 55 HM should be average 156 (nearly a full set is given for the Oricon story, but like I said 172s are available as soon as you hit 55). Level 60 SM should be average of 178 (which is given freely from SoR). Level 60 HM should be average 186 (available via crafting at 58 or Basic Comms at 60). If you don't meet it, tough luck you shouldn't get the option to queue via GF, get better gear. There is absolutely no reason why someone should be allowed to join a Hard Mode without the requisite gearscore. But that is a different conversation for a different thread.

I don't agree with gear checks on things. And I have never said 12x should be for all subscribers. I have advocated strict restrictions and very expensive CC cost. Why you might ask? I sort of share the sentiment about "fast and lazy" and want to make sure people have grinded their grind before they enjoy the extremely Cartel Coin expensive character perk of 12x EXP. As for entitlement, I don't feel like I am entitled to it but doesn't hurt to ask. I am most likely the worst customer for BW, never having bought a single Cartel Coin and still toying with my hundreds of millions of credits, easily bored with all the possible toys and with 19 toons at lvl 60 on single server for an example. For me, the whole 12 x EXP is rather irrelevant but it might make me a) buy a server transfer b) then buy the character perk on other server (2 things BW can bill) and level another one there for fun. I will not do that if I have to grind all the side quests that have now become boring for me after doing those over 20 times. And even then, a huge maybe.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[ekwalizer]

I don't agree with gear checks on things. And I have never said 12x should be for all subscribers. I have advocated strict restrictions and very expensive CC cost. Why you might ask? I sort of share the sentiment about "fast and lazy" and want to make sure people have grinded their grind before they enjoy the extremely Cartel Coin expensive character perk of 12x EXP. As for entitlement, I don't feel like I am entitled to it but doesn't hurt to ask. I am most likely the worst customer for BW, never having bought a single Cartel Coin and still toying with my hundreds of millions of credits, easily bored with all the possible toys and with 19 toons at lvl 60 on single server for an example. For me, the whole 12 x EXP is rather irrelevant but it might make me a) buy a server transfer b) then buy the character perk on other server (2 things BW can bill) and level another one there for fun. I will not do that if I have to grind all the side quests that have now become boring for me after doing those over 20 times.

 

So in your mind, 3 people should have to tolerate a level 50 in level 35 greens? The decision to kick them out should not fall to other players. They should have never been allowed into the content in the first place based on their gear.

 

Achieving minimum level (ie recommended) gear is not a problem in this game. It is practically given away.

[Ratajack]

So in your mind, 3 people should have to tolerate a level 50 in level 35 greens? The decision to kick them out should not fall to other players. They should have never been allowed into the content in the first place based on their gear.

 

Achieving minimum level (ie recommended) gear is not a problem in this game. It is practically given away.

 

From this an other threads, we already know that there is a portion of the player base who simply refuse to level alts due to the fact that they are too averse to the minimal effort of leveling those alts.

 

Are you really surprised that there is also a portion of the player that won't bother to put forth the effort to gear their characters.

 

I would be interested to see the Venn diagram for those two groups.

[ekwalizer]

Certainly not surprised by it. Just have to break their "logic" when I see them make the argument.

[Ruskaeth]

So in your mind, 3 people should have to tolerate a level 50 in level 35 greens? The decision to kick them out should not fall to other players. They should have never been allowed into the content in the first place based on their gear.

 

Achieving minimum level (ie recommended) gear is not a problem in this game. It is practically given away.

I have never said they should tolerate that. I have never said people should not see efforts to be properly geared. If you'd pay attention, at all, you'd have noticed that my experience and what I have witnessed myself is that people do just that the more characters they have because of actual resources. Your uncanny ability to draw conclusions based on assumptions and then masquerading those as questions amuses me greatly. TL;DR: Feel free to kick that person with weak gear. Manual gear check done. Besides, no amount of gear can protect a group from a bad player. I'd rather have a skill check but then my guess is that you'd be in trouble or would you be? (see what I did there?)

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[AdmiralTran]

When someone gives you a birthday present or a Christmas present, do you think you are entitled to get another present every day, just because that someone gave you a present ONCE? I would hope not.

 

 

No, but this is a little different.. We're customers, so in this case yes. Customers investing time and money into their GAME. So absolutely give your customers rewards for time spent. Why should you have to repeat the same boring grind again if there is a legacy system. Unless there are some out there that have a passion for "the grind" itself and not so much the game.. Good for you

 

Anyway, the spoiler in Ekwalizer's signature is a pretty good example. It's not exactly instantly gratifying the customers with a lump some of XP. The gradual progression through class missions and the higher legacy lvl you have, the more xp you gain through the class story as you complete it. But at legacy lvl 50 gaining 12x XP? I don't know about that lol.. I've been sitting at Max lvl 50 for over a year.

 

Perhaps an item like an Heirloom gained after completing your class story, similar to an adaptive legacy headpiece (crown) that grants the character additional XP (on top of the CM XP boost, rested XP). Only to be worn by a new character of the Same Class.. For example, I just completed the Agent (sniper) Class quest, but I really want to lvl an OPERATIVE now. After aligning your family tree, your descendant adopts the traits and is able to repeat the Class story a little quicker with a legacy boost.