12 x XP for class-missions

[FerkWork]

A feature does not have to "hurt" anybody who plays a game to be a possible detriment to said game. Let's remember that this is not some throwaway console kiddie game that you play for a week before being distracted by the newest glittering shiny that hits the shelves (or the download page). In order for an MMO to maintain sustainability and be successful, it needs a long term commitment from its core players. Adding features to it that essentially make it a throwaway console title work against that need.

 

 

 

I am all for giving players as many options as possible in playing a game and obtaining things within said game, but not if certain options and features work against the best long-term interests of the game.

 

Like how you threw kiddie on there. Lol this hatred for children is so weird. As an adult I don't get this demeaning of children by some on this forum. Why not this isn't a old fart geezer grind?

Edited April 6, 2015 by FerkWork

[TravelersWay]

Like how you threw kiddie on there. Lol this hatred for children is so weird. As an adult I don't get this demeaning of children by some on this forum. Why not this isn't a old fart geezer grind?

 

You are right. I know many children who are smarter and more mature than many of those of the console generation. By equating console players with children, I have insulted children across the world. I duly apologize to those children.

[Ghisallo]

Like how you threw kiddie on there. Lol this hatred for children is so weird. As an adult I don't get this demeaning of children by some on this forum. Why not this isn't a old fart geezer grind?

 

Having been a hardcore raider (and by hardcore I mean a 3am phone call to get out of bed and log in to kill a contested that just spawned) even I had to find you "something so raiders can...."

 

1. After an expac something will always be overtuned or undertuned. These do eventually get fixed (as we see with current overtuned classes getting the fixes they need in 3.2l

2. Unless something is completely broken though I have never seen a class in a game that is not viable, even keeping in mind #1. There is a difference between being viable and being competitive.

 

#1 always has and always will exist. At their base, again unless something is brokenly undertuned, there is a rarely a class that is not viable. In terms of being competitive, unless something is brokenly OP, there is rarely a time where the following factors do not or can not balance the scales.

 

1. The nature of the encounter.

2. Player effort/talent (had to love being a ranger in EQ2 that was always behind an Assassin because the class lead played a Sin in his "rl" raid guild.

 

Your "you try killing him" with all of one class is a straw man. Different classes not only bring different dps but different utility as well which can change raid wide dps, also having all largely one kind of dps will cause loses of dps due to scripts. Example a lot of disconnects and having all melee causes an issue. Movement and having all ranged that has a bunch of cast time attacks...same issue, different cause.

 

Also as a former Raid Lead and Class lead I would NOT want my raiders doing what you propose...in the long run it would hold the raid force back more. Of course I woukd want people playing as optimal a class as possible but you can't forget #1 above. If my raid force is based on FOTMs I have to stop, do a reset and regrind all the crap we already had on farm to gear up your new FOTM toon. Not fun.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ghisallo

[ekwalizer]

I am leveling those alts fyi if you bothered to read the rest of my post before you vomited your response. You try killing Revan HM with all Warriors or all Inquisitors. You just want to be the grouchy old man who wants to complain about entitlement. Why don't you get off your butt and do somethig productive.

 

Well junior, I already have. You see, long before you came along I already had 23 toons at max level. Before you start slinging mud at me, I recommend you read more than one post. Reading will be covered in 1st grade, so you can get back to me about this time next year.

[ivanhedgehog]

0/10.

Appropriate level PvP gear is adequate in most PvE scenarios. So that is a false narrative.

 

I'm pretty sure most people in the PvP community will take great offense with your assessment that PvP doesn't teach the necessary PvE skills. Not only does PvP teach PvE fundamentals, it reinforces them at a near constant rate. Where else will you find nearly every participant using interrupts, situation appropriate CCs, judicious use of their escape ability (ie use when necessary and saving it when you don't need to pop it), and focus fire. So that is a false narrative.

 

Forced Deleveling?

 

You should be less obvious in your trolling.

 

pvp does not teach pve skills. I have seen too many pvpers that were a detriment to a raid. they were always more concerned with topping the dps charts rather than doing what the strategy for the fight was. you are worried that people leveling too fast will hurt your ingame experience. I worry about pvp cowboys doing the same to mine. neither concern is entirely without merit, but neither concern should bother anyone else. no one is responsible for your ingame experience but you. if you dont want to team with noobs, form or join a guild and only team with known good players

[ivanhedgehog]

You mean like how if you have a Bachelors of Arts in History you should just be granted a Bachelors of Science in Mathematics? Is that the "arrangement" you are talking about? Wait, no, that doesn't work, even if you do just take the Mathematics core requirements the University will still find additional requirements for you.

 

Is that direct enough comparison, grind for grind? Time spent for time spent?

 

I can't think of a single example of where it is just arranged, why don't you enlighten me with some examples since I have already provided some in opposition.

 

but if you pay for a years subscription to field and stream magazine, its ok if they just send you the same month 12 times because thats what you paid for. your false sense of entitlement to new content is your own fault

[Ruskaeth]

pvp does not teach pve skills.

Then I suppose the PvPers you have seen have just been bad players. PvPers I have played with have known exactly how to do sustained alongside burst when needed, never stood in stupid and most important always knew when to use their defensive cool downs. I suppose you could say that "being bad in whatever does not teach pve skills". PvP prepares people more for PvE than PvE for PvP. Also, there is nothing wrong with wanting to top the DPS chart, as long as it does not make your other playing worse. That is one of the things creating the difference between good and bad dpses: Being able to deliver amazing DPS while doing all the other tasks flawlessly.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[Ghisallo]

0/10.

Appropriate level PvP gear is adequate in most PvE scenarios. So that is a false narrative.

 

I'm pretty sure most people in the PvP community will take great offense with your assessment that PvP doesn't teach the necessary PvE skills. Not only does PvP teach PvE fundamentals, it reinforces them at a near constant rate. Where else will you find nearly every participant using interrupts, situation appropriate CCs, judicious use of their escape ability (ie use when necessary and saving it when you don't need to pop it), and focus fire. So that is a false narrative.

 

Forced Deleveling?

 

You should be less obvious in your trolling.

 

I have to kinda call shenanigans on this one. PvP teaches PvP skills. Depending on the class the way you heal may be different, dps rotations can be different to provide more burst...heck you can be running a sub-class that is not optimal for PvE because it is better optimized for PvP and the purpose and manner in which you play "tanks" is also different. To boot, at least in raids, if all you do is PvP you have no familiarity with scripts.

[Ghisallo]

I don't agree with gear checks on things.

 

Now I will be honest...the whole "not enough experience" thing really won't bother me. Bad players will be bad players, good will be good imo.

 

That said...

 

If you have a transition to 12x xp, even if purchased/legacy earned, you basically need a gear check. The difficulty of the dungeons is set up with the old level progression and currency reward system in mind. If you increase the xp earning that much you WILL have people ridiculously undergeared for the content. During the last 12xp time I did Mandalorian raiders. I was wonder why the tank kept dying. I thought at first I was just sucking as a healer. Turns out I wasn't. The tank did not have a shield and was wearing gear that was 10 levels behind the FP, some of it was green and to make matters worse some of it was dps gear.

 

To avoid this you need a gear score of some sort...whether it be set a check based on non-stim primary stat for dps and heals, End and primary stat for tanks or a total item rating doesn't matter but it does become a necessity. If not you will have any of the following...

 

1. as I did, a completely failed run because the the tank was dropping below 50% health on trash and there simply aren't enough tanks around to make vote kick viable.

2. People whining on the forums about the following... Regardless of how polite and constructive the criticism was...

....2a. "some elitist meanie told me I was under gear for the instance. How can being in green gear, 10-15 levels lower than the instance, be under geared? I mean I wouldn't be able to queue if I was undergeared right?

....2b. Meanie players always dropping group on me.

....2c. Meanie players are always vote kicking me.

....2d. SWtOR's community sucks/has gone downhill (insert 2a-2c)

And many other variations on the above theme.

 

You will have players that are properly geared getting down right PO'd at the failed runs and in the end will lose players from both groups. You don't need to have a gear score on the character every player can see...just one the player can see to make sure they have the right score and the system can see to restrict entry.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ruskaeth]

Are there other MMOs with gear checks implemented? If so, how has it worked there?

[Ghisallo]

Are there other MMOs with gear checks implemented? If so, how has it worked there?

 

Rift has one. One of the ways they "gate" content to make sure people are properly geared is they have a stat called "hit". Hit is on the gear for multiple slots and each group/raid instance has a minimum required total hit to enter. If you can enter it does roughly translate into a % change to hit the mobs. Example if the zone has a requirement of 200 hit you can enter with 200 hit and have around a 95% hit rate. Between 210 and 220 you would get 100%. It does not have any effect on the damage you do IF you hit though. Its not perfect but it makes sure you don't have people in solo green drops or lower level gear, from getting into their version of a hard mode (they call them "experts")

 

Here though you would need no new stat, just use the item rating as follows. Let's say a FP is designed for people in 146 gear. You have the game check your 9 primary slots (armor + main and off hand). If the total rating for all 9 slots =1314 welcome to the FP... If not back to getting some more comms or drops from the previous instance.

[Ruskaeth]

I suppose that might not be too hurtful for only group finder queuing, but people should still be able to enter instances with their own groups with whatever gear. It's not so uncommon for people to take almost naked players to SM raids (rav/tos) for an example to gear them in a go with 192s. Thing like that should not be blocked with gear checks upon entering instances.

[Tilvius]

This may be a rant or what ever but I'm not here to start a flame war or anything. I'm just adding my experience and why I want 12x XP as I am a customer(subscriber) in the end of the day.

 

I'm going to start with a funny sentence. I really don't consider myself apart of the swtor community anymore...

What I mean by that is that I play alone. 99% of the time. My mates wont come back because of the current business model ( F2P ) and the fact that there isn't anymore Australian servers. So it's just me, myself and my lonely one man guild. Some say I should just start recruiting but with my "casualness" and time constraints, I just can't be stuffed to run one. Mates wanna play other games and I play with them. When I'm on my own, I'm in SWTOR.

 

Now I might take advantage of daily group finder quest but I hardly talk in chat. I I won't PvP because well... EA have shut down Australian servers like mentioned before, PvPing is horrible with bad ping. I can't help that.

 

If there is anything I love about this game, it's the story. I just feel that the 12x XP would benefit the casual players like myself that just want to play the game for its story. If this kind of boost was out I could see myself with alot of characters in Pubs side and Imps. I don't know, may not be a good reason to have it in but I feel like I would be able to accomplish alot more story telling with that boost.

 

I was hoping that the next patch will bring in 12 x XP. Upset that it isn't. I still support it though, and I'll wait for it.

[ekwalizer]

I suppose that might not be too hurtful for only group finder queuing, but people should still be able to enter instances with their own groups with whatever gear. It's not so uncommon for people to take almost naked players to SM raids (rav/tos) for an example to gear them in a go with 192s. Thing like that should not be blocked with gear checks upon entering instances.

 

When I was talking about a gear-score mechanic, all I meant was for the Group Finder. What a pre-made group wants to do it up to them. My point was that if the game is going to randomly assign 4 (or 16) players then a gear score check is necessary.

[TUXs]

pvp does not teach pve skills.

I disagree. I understand it doesn't teach PvE "rotations", but it creates extremely aware players. Players who understand that standing in something that looks bad, probably is. PvP teaches awareness and adaptability, learning to always be on your toes and forcing players to improvise in a way that PvE absolutely doesn't teach in any of the easy Ops...that's not a knock on PvE, it just isn't required.

 

So, I guess in a way you're correct, PvP doesn't teach a player to sit back and only focus on their best rotation, but PvP does teach skills that are invaluable to PvE.

[ekwalizer]

I disagree. I understand it doesn't teach PvE "rotations", but it creates extremely aware players. Players who understand that standing in something that looks bad, probably is. PvP teaches awareness and adaptability, learning to always be on your toes and forcing players to improvise in a way that PvE absolutely doesn't teach in any of the easy Ops...that's not a knock on PvE, it just isn't required.

 

So, I guess in a way you're correct, PvP doesn't teach a player to sit back and only focus on their best rotation, but PvP does teach skills that are invaluable to PvE.

 

Precisely where I was going.

[EllieAnne]

Bioware: "We'll be offering 12Xp for subscribers and returning subscribers to ramp up for the SoR expansion. Offer ends December 2nd (or some such)."

 

Customer: "You have to give me 12XP all the time or I'll quit!"

 

Real World parallels

 

Me: "I'm having a party at my place Friday night from 7PM until Midnight. There will be a band and free pizza and beer. If you want something specific you have to bring that."

 

Scenario 1:

Partygoer: "The party was great! You have to do it everyday or we can't be friends anymore!"

 

Scenario 2:

Missed the party: "I showed up for the party (at 3AM) what do you mean there is no more beer? This is an outrage

Or:

Hey you did four years of general ed work to get your high school diploma.

And you did two years of general ed work for your bachelor's degree.

So let's make you do two years of general ed for your master's. If you don't want that, then you are lazy and just want a light-speed way to get through your degree. After all, grinding out work is a part of every degree.

Edited April 6, 2015 by EllieAnne

[DarthDymond]

Bioware: "We'll be offering 12Xp for subscribers and returning subscribers to ramp up for the SoR expansion. Offer ends December 2nd (or some such)."

 

Customer: "You have to give me 12XP all the time or I'll quit!"

 

Real World parallels

 

Me: "I'm having a party at my place Friday night from 7PM until Midnight. There will be a band and free pizza and beer. If you want something specific you have to bring that."

 

Scenario 1:

Partygoer: "The party was great! You have to do it everyday or we can't be friends anymore!"

 

Scenario 2:

Missed the party: "I showed up for the party (at 3AM) what do you mean there is no more beer? This is an outrage!"

 

 

 

No one is putting a gun to BW's head, there are just people saying 'When [Feature X] is available, I find this game enjoyable enough to subscribe. When [Feature X] is not available, I do not find this game enjoyable enough to subscribe."

 

That's about as straightforward customer feedback as you get (provided they're being honest).

Edited April 6, 2015 by DarthDymond

[Ruskaeth]

No one is putting a gun to BW's head, there are just people saying 'When [Feature X] is available, I find this game enjoyable enough to subscribe. When [Feature X] is not available, I do not find this game enjoyable enough to subscribe."

Not even that on most cases I think. I have seen very little of "I will unsub if not implement" regarding this. However, this might keep some people subbed slightly longer. I don't see it as a permanent solution to keep submoneys from someone who is getting too restless while playing. It's just a QoL improvement.

[Ratajack]

No one is putting a gun to BW's head, there are just people saying 'When [Feature X] is available, I find this game enjoyable enough to subscribe. When [Feature X] is not available, I do not find this game enjoyable enough to subscribe."

 

That's about as straightforward customer feedback as you get (provided they're being honest).

 

Given the fact that non-subscribers cannot post on the forums, I would have to say that even those "who don't this game enjoyable enough to subscribe without 'feature X' " are still subscribing. That kind of makes them hypocrites, wouldn't you say?

 

It could also be paraphrased like this:

 

"Without feature X, I will not level any more alts, since I am too averse the the minimal effort required to do so. This means I will not be a presence in the lower level areas so the starter planets and lower level planets will appear under populated. If you give me feature X, I will level those alts. I will then be a brief presence on the starter planets and lower level planets, even though I will not deign to socialize with any of the rabble. Those lower level planets will seem to be more populated."

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ratajack

[Ratajack]

Or:

Hey you did four years of general ed work to get your high school diploma.

And you did two years of general ed work for your bachelor's degree.

So let's make you do two years of general ed for your master's. If you don't want that, then you are lazy and just want a light-speed way to get through your degree. After all, grinding out work is a part of every degree.

 

 

Would you expect to be handed a master's degree simply because you had a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree? Would you expect to be able to get that master's degree without doing the necessary work to obtain it simply because you had a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree? Would you expect to be able to far less than half (closer to 10%, actually) of the necessary work to obtain that Master's degree simply because you had a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree?

 

Why would you expect to be able to have that new alt for doing only about 10% of what is required to obtain that new character just because you have a few characters already?

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ratajack

[EllieAnne]

Would you expect to be handed a master's degree simply because you had a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree? Would you expect to be able to get that master's degree without doing the necessary work to obtain it simply because you had a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree? Would you expect to be able to far less than half (closer to 10%, actually) of the necessary work to obtain that Master's degree simply because you had a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree?

 

Is that what I said or do you need to continue to lie about what people say?

Did I say you should not do ANY work for a master's degree or did I say you should not HAVE TO REPEAT GENERAL EDUCATION CLASSES for your master's.

 

Or are you going to be to lazy to answer my questions?

[EyesOfRed]

the point is if you have 1 degree, it requires considerably less time to get another. gen eds counting for both.

 

side quests, and planetaries are like gen eds. apply to all (or most) classes. no need to repeat, thanks.

[TUXs]

Not even that on most cases I think. I have seen very little of "I will unsub if not implement" regarding this. However, this might keep some people subbed slightly longer. I don't see it as a permanent solution to keep submoneys from someone who is getting too restless while playing. It's just a QoL improvement.

 

Agreed. I'm glad they'll be adding it!

[EllieAnne]

And as pointed out, non-subs cannot post on the forums. How many of those WOULD sub if they knew they could eventually work up to 12xXP?