12 x XP for class-missions

[ekwalizer]

I have never said they should tolerate that. I have never said people should not see efforts to be properly geared. If you'd pay attention, at all, you'd have noticed that my experience and what I have witnessed myself is that people do just that the more characters they have because of actual resources. Your uncanny ability to draw conclusions based on assumptions and then masquerading those as questions amuses me greatly. TL;DR: Feel free to kick that person with weak gear. Manual gear check done. Besides, no amount of gear can protect a group from a bad player. I'd rather have a skill check but then my guess is that you'd be in trouble or would you be? (see what I did there?)

 

You said:

I don't agree with gear checks on things.

 

I said:

So in your mind, 3 people should have to tolerate a level 50 in level 35 greens? The decision to kick them out should not fall to other players. They should have never been allowed into the content in the first place based on their gear.

 

Achieving minimum level (ie recommended) gear is not a problem in this game. It is practically given away.

 

 

That is all I was talking about. I never called you under-geared or a bad player. Why loose your venom on me? What I said, and will repeat since you seem to have missed it: The decision to evict another player based on lack of gear should not fall to the player-base. They should have never been there in the first place and it can be avoided entirely through a gear score.

 

Players should certainly retain the ability to kick bad players who are detrimental to the rest of the team. But content is gated more by gear than level. As such, gear and NOT level should be the gate to get into the content.

 

You, being of the opinion, that a gear-check is not needed does not negate the pure and simple fact, demonstrated many times every day across every server, that it should be used. The gear-check is actually in place, it is just left to the honor system.

 

If you directed your anger at me for stating that your logic is not sound; I at least backed up my stance with metrics. Thusfar, I simply know that you do not agree with gear-checks, what I do not know is why you do not approve of them.

 

Unfortunately for your position; every PvE encounter in this game has a gear check. I'm talking about solo and group content. Every mob in this game assumes you are in appropriate gear for the encounter. Some can be overcome by skill, most cannot.

Edited April 5, 2015 by ekwalizer

[ekwalizer]

Anyway, the spoiler in Ekwalizer's signature is a pretty good example. It's not exactly instantly gratifying the customers with a lump some of XP. The gradual progression through class missions and the higher legacy lvl you have, the more xp you gain through the class story as you complete it. But at legacy lvl 50 gaining 12x XP? I don't know about that lol.. I've been sitting at Max lvl 50 for over a year.

 

That (12XP at LL50) is a point that is certainly open for debate and shifting/removing altogether. I have been LL50 since May 2012. LL50 should mean something.

 

Maybe if you are LL50 the full 3xp kicks in regardless of how many chapter 3s you have completed(?). I have known several players with only one or two toons, but because they are max level they too have been LL50 for years. Legacy XP fills up quickly when you are doing end-game content. Then again, that might not work. I dinged LL50 before I finished my 5th level 50. And in those days we didn't even begin building Legacy Experience until we finished Chapter 1 for the first time.

 

My entire "proposal" is subject to debate, and I encourage it. Thank you for reading it and critiquing it.

Edited April 5, 2015 by ekwalizer

[Ratajack]

No, but this is a little different.. We're customers, so in this case yes. Customers investing time and money into their GAME. So absolutely give your customers rewards for time spent. Why should you have to repeat the same boring grind again if there is a legacy system. Unless there are some out there that have a passion for "the grind" itself and not so much the game.. Good for you

 

Anyway, the spoiler in Ekwalizer's signature is a pretty good example. It's not exactly instantly gratifying the customers with a lump some of XP. The gradual progression through class missions and the higher legacy lvl you have, the more xp you gain through the class story as you complete it. But at legacy lvl 50 gaining 12x XP? I don't know about that lol.. I've been sitting at Max lvl 50 for over a year.

 

Perhaps an item like an Heirloom gained after completing your class story, similar to an adaptive legacy headpiece (crown) that grants the character additional XP (on top of the CM XP boost, rested XP). Only to be worn by a new character of the Same Class.. For example, I just completed the Agent (sniper) Class quest, but I really want to lvl an OPERATIVE now. After aligning your family tree, your descendant adopts the traits and is able to repeat the Class story a little quicker with a legacy boost.

 

Paying customers?

 

Do you feel that you are entitled to more than you are paying to receive?

 

When you go the grocery store, do you expect to get a cart of groceries every day simply because you shopped there ONCE? Do you expect to get 2 carts of groceries for the price of one every time you shop there simply because they gave you a bonus ONCE? I don't.

 

You are paying the subscription to play the game as it is, as the devs designed it. The devs gave us a GIFT, a limited time bonus, above and beyond what we are paying to receive.

 

Yet, many seem to feel that they are ENTITLED to that gift all the time simply because BW was nice to us ONCE, for a limited time.

[DocDAM]

Well, it has all probably been said in the 24 pages(!) before me. Originally came for the stories, got hooked on the Achievements, Legacy, etc. But now that I'm completing my 4th playthru, I'd be all over 12XP. Whether that translated into less revenue ... depends on how much they charged for the 12XP.

[ekwalizer]

Well, it has all probably been said in the 24 pages(!) before me. Originally came for the stories, got hooked on the Achievements, Legacy, etc. But now that I'm completing my 4th playthru, I'd be all over 12XP. Whether that translated into less revenue ... depends on how much they charged for the 12XP.

 

And you could have been all over it from October to December for the price of a subscription.

[ekwalizer]

Bioware: "We'll be offering 12Xp for subscribers and returning subscribers to ramp up for the SoR expansion. Offer ends December 2nd (or some such)."

 

Customer: "You have to give me 12XP all the time or I'll quit!"

 

Real World parallels

 

Me: "I'm having a party at my place Friday night from 7PM until Midnight. There will be a band and free pizza and beer. If you want something specific you have to bring that."

 

Scenario 1:

Partygoer: "The party was great! You have to do it everyday or we can't be friends anymore!"

 

Scenario 2:

Missed the party: "I showed up for the party (at 3AM) what do you mean there is no more beer? This is an outrage!"

 

Edited April 5, 2015 by ekwalizer

[Ruskaeth]

Yes because real world parallels are always such a great idea. One could create umpteen examples of how the grind after 20 toons for the side quests is complete waste of time and how in real world that would be somehow arranged, but yeah, lets do those real world pseudo analogies, please, put some more real world comparison, pls?

[AdmiralTran]

Paying customers?

 

Do you feel that you are entitled to more than you are paying to receive?

 

When you go the grocery store, do you expect to get a cart of groceries every day simply because you shopped there ONCE? Do you expect to get 2 carts of groceries for the price of one every time you shop there simply because they gave you a bonus ONCE? I don't.

 

You are paying the subscription to play the game as it is, as the devs designed it. The devs gave us a GIFT, a limited time bonus, above and beyond what we are paying to receive.

 

Yet, many seem to feel that they are ENTITLED to that gift all the time simply because BW was nice to us ONCE, for a limited time.

 

Yes lol, For SWTOR that is. Thats a subscription man. Keep your Gamers (customers) interested, satisfied and coming back for more. The legacy system is a bit stale and could you some work to accommodate the new and long-term players. And with respect to the OP, I'm gonna just go ahead and stick with commenting on that for now sir.. Sorry, I would love to sit and compare apples and oranges but that just goes nowhere.. But I'll certainly keep that in mind the next time at Safeway and ever feel I'm just not getting what I paid for lol. But, I'm with ya and I understand, no one wants to see the other guy get everything handed to him/her that took others months or years of commitment.

 

Like I said, the legacy is in a pretty stale place right now and could use some fine tuning. 12xp was pretty awesome, but making it permanent for class quests in the form of a Cartel Purchase is a bit too much. For the recent expansion it made sense to increase the overall player population. Introducing something like this should be given in small bites, require some time (grinding) but ultimately make leveling a NEW character quicker. I will only say creating a new character of the same Class will grant you a legacy bonus, Ex. but if you've never lvl'd a Knight, you'd only be left with Rested XP or CM XP boosts.

[Djiini]

When someone gives you a birthday present or a Christmas present, do you think you are entitled to get another present every day, just because that someone gave you a present ONCE? I would hope not.

 

You pay people for your presents?

 

Also, not sure why you and Ekwalizer are acting like we're expecting it for free instead of asking to pay for it....

Edited April 5, 2015 by Djiini

[ekwalizer]

You pay people for your presents?

 

Also, not sure why you and Ekwalizer are acting like we're expecting it for free instead of asking to pay for it....

 

This guy doesn't want you to have it for free or as a paid option. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I know what I said, I was there when I said it.

Edited April 5, 2015 by ekwalizer

[ekwalizer]

Yes because real world parallels are always such a great idea. One could create umpteen examples of how the grind after 20 toons for the side quests is complete waste of time and how in real world that would be somehow arranged, but yeah, lets do those real world pseudo analogies, please, put some more real world comparison, pls?

 

You mean like how if you have a Bachelors of Arts in History you should just be granted a Bachelors of Science in Mathematics? Is that the "arrangement" you are talking about? Wait, no, that doesn't work, even if you do just take the Mathematics core requirements the University will still find additional requirements for you.

 

Is that direct enough comparison, grind for grind? Time spent for time spent?

 

I can't think of a single example of where it is just arranged, why don't you enlighten me with some examples since I have already provided some in opposition.

[EyesOfRed]

The Kotor 3 argument is completely valid. Side quests in kotor are optional, and I have burned through that game dozens of times in every way imaginable. The pacing is much faster, and even the side content is more character relevant.

 

I've already relented that 12x is too fast. 3x would match kotor 1 and 2 pacing the best IMO. I'd be happy if they just made the 25% boosts, 100% boosts instead. Or increase the existing legacy xp boosts. Double xp felt very fluid story wise.

[Djiini]

I've already relented that 12x is too fast. 3x would match kotor 1 and 2 pacing the best IMO. I'd be happy if they just made the 25% boosts, 100% boosts instead. Or increase the existing legacy xp boosts. Double xp felt very fluid story wise.

 

I'd definitely be satisfied with somewhere from 3x to 6x. I wouldn't mind doing SOME sidequests, you know? Just gets grating needing to do the vast, 99% of them on every character if I don't want to grind KDY or run a lot of PVP/GSF.

 

Double XP was pretty close though, yeah. I think 3x or 4x would be a good median.

[EyesOfRed]

I got curious and looked, because I assumed I play it faster than most. Kotor 1 average playtime is under 40 hours for first play through. Subsequent plays would go much faster.

 

40 hours to hit 50 (not 60) seems reasonable. Would be more like 30 for the speed run power levellers.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Furthermore, I think people desperately grasping for straws against 12 x EXP with class stories with whatever restrictions are super casuals who are afraid they will never meet said demands to be able to utilize it. I think envy is the key word here folks. "I resist because it might not ably to me, I have not grinded enough to qualify... so no one else should get the benefit even if they have grinded. QQ, QQ and more QQ... aaaaaw, lets try to make it look like people who ask for restrictions are the baaaad ones and hope this never happens at all... QQ... QQ."

 

Yeah sorry, but I know I have personally 8 lvl 60s, and am working on more, and only 1 level from LL50. And as far as I can see the only people QQing is the ones crying to make it permanent.

 

You have to love the projection on these people, calling people that wish to keep the game as it was meant to be played entitled, rather then the ones trying to demand that it be changed to meet their wanted play style and so forth. Or trying to say that people against 12x exp are trying to make people for it play the way the former want.

 

And Djiini, I will be more then happy to accept a I told you so if I am wrong, I hope you are man enough to do the same when you finally realize that just like the AC argument, this 12xp is not implemented as well.

 

**edit**

 

I'd definitely be satisfied with somewhere from 3x to 6x. I wouldn't mind doing SOME sidequests, you know? Just gets grating needing to do the vast, 99% of them on every character if I don't want to grind KDY or run a lot of PVP/GSF.

 

Yeah such a massive KDY grind, I have been leveling a sniper and you know how many KDY I have to grind a day...just 1. Then back to story. I have barely done any side quests, maybe 1 or 2 here or there. Done 1 kdy with a minor exp boost, and back to story, and you gain a few levels a day.

 

@ekwalizer

 

Well thought out exp boost system there, that would be something cool to implement.

Edited April 5, 2015 by lightSaberAddiCt

[Ruskaeth]

Yeah sorry, but I know I have personally 8 lvl 60s, and am working on more, and only 1 level from LL50. And as far as I can see the only people QQing is the ones crying to make it permanent.

Once you get to ~20 characters at level 60, ask yourself this: Do the side quests feel boring to you now? If not, fine, you really don't want experience gain boost at any point.

[Djiini]

And Djiini, I will be more then happy to accept a I told you so if I am wrong, I hope you are man enough to do the same when you finally realize that just like the AC argument, this 12xp is not implemented as well.

 

Not really, because as said, I can't be 'wrong' about what the best way to have fun is. Just like you guys can't be, which makes me just as dumb for perpetuating it.

 

But I enjoy arguing, because I'm a freak like that.

[Grayseven]

When you take the timing of the 12XP perk into account, IMO, it had nothing to do with the devs understanding "how god-awful boring and time consuming leveling toons after having done it a few times really is".

 

IMO, it was all about giving players that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" right before the new expansion with the increased level cap was released. This way those new players or those players that wanted to try new classes could do so and would likely be able to be 55 before SoR was released, thereby ensuring that as few players as possible were held back or prevented from getting to that new content.

 

When someone gives you a birthday present or a Christmas present, do you think you are entitled to get another present every day, just because that someone gave you a present ONCE? I would hope not.

 

The devs gave those mice a GIFT, in the form of a 12XP bonus. The mice now feel they are entitled to that 12XP on a permanent basis. In a nutshell, that is what this is all about. The mice feel entitled to get a gift everyday, simply because they got a gift ONCE.

 

No, they want the option to use something again that they were already given once because it's convenient. It wasn't advertised as a present no matter what the timing. Anyone with half a brain realizes it was to draw people into the expansion and most people easily realize it could once again draw people into the game.

 

It served a purpose and no one was hurt by the first bout of 12x xp but now, all of a sudden, all manner of ills will happen if you let people skip over all the boring side quests that long term players have already done multiple times.

 

You'd probably get better traction without constantly resorting to insults to anyone who doesn't follow your beliefs but you have a track record of fighting against things that have no bearing on you and using insults and hyperbole to argue instead of using logic and debate.

 

Again, I don't care either way but if 12x xp didn't hurt anything in the lead up to SoR then it won't hurt anything to offer it to people who want to take advantage of it. Since the xp was only good thru the Makeb story line players will still have to do it the normal way for the new expansion levels and if people can't learn to play a class from 55-60 they will never learn.

[ekwalizer]

 

@ekwalizer

 

Well thought out exp boost system there, that would be something cool to implement.

 

Much thanks

 

But I enjoy arguing, because I'm a freak like that.

 

You're in good company with me then

[ekwalizer]

No, they want the option to use something again that they were already given once because it's convenient. It wasn't advertised as a present no matter what the timing. Anyone with half a brain realizes it was to draw people into the expansion and most people easily realize it could once again draw people into the game.

Agreed.

 

It served a purpose and no one was hurt by the first bout of 12x xp but now, all of a sudden, all manner of ills will happen if you let people skip over all the boring side quests that long term players have already done multiple times.

 

Here is where it gets a bit murky. Can you truly hurt someone through a video game? I would argue no, not under most circumstances. Not using a minimum gear score requirement for the group finder, is however, detrimental to other players as we get lumped into random groups with severely under-geared players.

 

You'd probably get better traction without constantly resorting to insults to anyone who doesn't follow your beliefs but you have a track record of fighting against things that have no bearing on you and using insults and hyperbole to argue instead of using logic and debate.

 

Indeed.

 

Again, I don't care either way but if 12x xp didn't hurt anything in the lead up to SoR then it won't hurt anything to offer it to people who want to take advantage of it. Since the xp was only good thru the Makeb story line players will still have to do it the normal way for the new expansion levels and if people can't learn to play a class from 55-60 they will never learn.

 

I think we need to define "hurt". Did anyone suffer bodily harm as a result? Probably not. Did people lose time because under-geared players showed up ill-prepared for content? Most certainly.

[ekwalizer]

Once you get to ~20 characters at level 60, ask yourself this: Do the side quests feel boring to you now? If not, fine, you really don't want experience gain boost at any point.

 

I am in that boat. Yes I find it boring. But truth be told, you do not have to do them (true side missions).

 

You can KDY and your daily standard FP once per day. That will be 2+ levels right there per day. Just by doing your GF dailies you can skip 75% of all side missions. If you just do your class + some of the planet main arcs + GF dailies you don't have to do any extraneous side missions.

[FerkWork]

I am in that boat. Yes I find it boring. But truth be told, you do not have to do them (true side missions).

 

You can KDY and your daily standard FP once per day. That will be 2+ levels right there per day. Just by doing your GF dailies you can skip 75% of all side missions. If you just do your class + some of the planet main arcs + GF dailies you don't have to do any extraneous side missions.

 

At early levels maybe. With a max boost on FP and a XP boost KDY it seems to be like half a level increase in the 30's but I digress.

 

Things I would like to see:

1) Something to help level toons faster for progression raiders who toons may not be viable next week due to Dev's hitting the crack pipe when it comes to balance and may not get the chance to raid then. They don't need to learn their toons so it's a non issue. I'm leveling a Sin tank and have Jugg tank in storage in case BW decides to go on another nerfing spree.

2) Better Legacy system use: Not only XP but other perks as well. Further reduction of RB CD among other things.

3) A better leveling system that challenges the player. The idea that leveling is some experience that teaches you is absurd in its present state. All fights in leveling have been nerfed to the ground. And KDY just adds to the bad pool. Make the fights in both KDY and leveling challenging!

 

Side note: It sounds like the same railing against young people that old people of every generation does. I worked in the coal mines, you don't deserve a warm blanket. I sweated for my food in the slave pens of Ziost while the Emperor beat me, so you don't deserve to ask for dessert! Its like every article DAE think generation whatever are entitled? I have a feeling these people have the same views on life and are the same people who think that assistance to the poor by the government is entitlement (lol starve the poor) It drives me nuts both in game and real life. It's a game BW will do what it wants to make money. Go back to yelling at clouds ya geezers.

Edited April 6, 2015 by FerkWork

[ekwalizer]

At early levels maybe. With a max boost on FP and a XP boost KDY it seems to be like half a level increase in the 30's but I digress.

 

Things I would like to see:

1) Something to help level toons faster for progression raiders who toons may not be viable next week due to Dev's hitting the crack pipe when it comes to balance and may not get the chance to raid then. They don't need to learn their toons so it's a non issue. I'm leveling a Sin tank and have Jugg tank in storage in case BW decides to go on another nerfing spree.

2) Better Legacy system use: Not only XP but other perks as well. Further reduction of RB CD among other things.

3) A better leveling system that challenges the player. The idea that leveling is some experience that teaches you is absurd in its present state. All fights in leveling have been nerfed to the ground. And KDY just adds to the bad pool. Make the fights in both KDY and leveling challenging!

 

Wait, what? Progression raiders don't need to learn their toons?

 

Is there something that stops you right now from leveling those alts? Is there something that makes 3.X raiders different than 1.X or 2.X raiders? We have seen heavy nerfs with every installment of this game. The nerfbat "coming to a toon near you" doesn't make you special. Just because Marauders recently got nerfed for the very first time or because Sins are about to catch their first nerf doesn't mean that they will be unplayable. Most of us have dealt with nerfs over the last three years.

[TravelersWay]

Again, I don't care either way but if 12x xp didn't hurt anything in the lead up to SoR then it won't hurt anything to offer it to people who want to take advantage of it. Since the xp was only good thru the Makeb story line players will still have to do it the normal way for the new expansion levels and if people can't learn to play a class from 55-60 they will never learn.

I think we need to define "hurt". Did anyone suffer bodily harm as a result? Probably not. Did people lose time because under-geared players showed up ill-prepared for content? Most certainly.

A feature does not have to "hurt" anybody who plays a game to be a possible detriment to said game. Let's remember that this is not some throwaway console kiddie game that you play for a week before being distracted by the newest glittering shiny that hits the shelves (or the download page). In order for an MMO to maintain sustainability and be successful, it needs a long term commitment from its core players. Adding features to it that essentially make it a throwaway console title work against that need.

 

Side note: It sounds like the same railing against young people that old people of every generation does. I worked in the coal mines, you don't deserve a warm blanket. I sweated for my food in the slave pens of Ziost while the Emperor beat me, so you don't deserve to ask for dessert! Its like every article DAE think generation whatever are entitled? I have a feeling these people have the same views on life and are the same people who think that assistance to the poor by the government is entitlement (lol starve the poor) It drives me nuts both in game and real life. It's a game BW will do what it wants to make money. Go back to yelling at clouds ya geezers.

 

I am all for giving players as many options as possible in playing a game and obtaining things within said game, but not if certain options and features work against the best long-term interests of the game.

[FerkWork]

Wait, what? Progression raiders don't need to learn their toons?

 

Is there something that stops you right now from leveling those alts? Is there something that makes 3.X raiders different than 1.X or 2.X raiders? We have seen heavy nerfs with every installment of this game. The nerfbat "coming to a toon near you" doesn't make you special. Just because Marauders recently got nerfed for the very first time or because Sins are about to catch their first nerf doesn't mean that they will be unplayable. Most of us have dealt with nerfs over the last three years.

 

I am leveling those alts fyi if you bothered to read the rest of my post before you vomited your response. You try killing Revan HM with all Warriors or all Inquisitors. You just want to be the grouchy old man who wants to complain about entitlement. Why don't you get off your butt and do somethig productive.

Edited April 6, 2015 by FerkWork