Getting tired of content difficulty, not because of the actual difficulty, but people

[E-Zekiel]

Here's the thing. I love difficult content. I do. I like that the new content is difficult - I do.

 

But what I'm not liking...is how the content is making people, and the kind of stuff that's being mandated by new content. It's making people into quitters, wanting to give up, etc. I like difficulty, but you know what burns me out? Is negative, defeatist attitudes. And I acknowledge that it's brought on by this new content.

 

The other issue I have is that there are SO MANY FIGHTS now, where if ONE person dies, the entire fight is completely boned. Completely. And then there are other fights - I just tried HM Rishi's bonus last night, that basically mandate two cleansers. So my group of tank, slightly undergeared marauder, sniper, sorc might as well just have not bothered instead of wasting all the time we did trying to beat it.

 

My other issue with it is...Excepting the boss and bonus boss, these bosses drop 184 gear. This means you should be able to get by with 184 gear or less, because when you do content in any video game, you should expect the rewards, assuming you are rewarded with gear, should be an upgrade to what you currently have equipped. This is only the case half the time - less than half if you don't do bonus bosses, and is not only NOT an upgrade, but isn't even on-par with what most people come to HM's with - 186's.

 

It's starting to stress me out because it's just too much BS all in one big ball.

 

I like the HM's, but it's like I have to run it with only ideal groups with friends who technically overgear (because their gear is higher than 184 - and in case of the friends who can clear it, more often than not they're in full 192+).

 

I like the difficulty, guys, I do, but something has to give. The rewards need to be better, or the fights need to be fine tuned to have a little less BS to them. I really, really dislike that if one person dies, there are so many fights that you might as well just /stuck at that point. I realize one could make the argument of "stop grouping with bads", but I don't really want to. I would like to at least be kind of able to carry one person in a group. Not all of my friends are good players, but I think three good players should be able to carry a bad fourth, and that's just not been the case in my experience. :/

[Heat-Wave]

You will be flamed by fanboys until the cows come home, but you're right...

 

There is fun/challenging, then there is frustrating/challenging...

 

I've now been able to clear more of the 3.0 content, being overgeared makes all the difference in the world... but I find that if I am not doing it with guildies, then I'm wasting my time...

 

I've been in GF for a long time now, I find myself going to click on it, only to think, "what's the point, the odds of getting a PUG that can clear HM 60 is low, waste of my time".

[Reno_Tarshil]

You will be flamed by fanboys until the cows come home, but you're right...

 

There is fun/challenging, then there is frustrating/challenging...

 

I've now been able to clear more of the 3.0 content, being overgeared makes all the difference in the world... but I find that if I am not doing it with guildies, then I'm wasting my time...

 

I've been in GF for a long time now, I find myself going to click on it, only to think, "what's the point, the odds of getting a PUG that can clear HM 60 is low, waste of my time".

 

This fanboy isn't going to flame him.

[Kadin]

My other issue with it is...Excepting the boss and bonus boss, these bosses drop 184 gear. This means you should be able to get by with 184 gear or less, because when you do content in any video game, you should expect the rewards, assuming you are rewarded with gear, should be an upgrade to what you currently have equipped. This is only the case half the time - less than half if you don't do bonus bosses, and is not only NOT an upgrade, but isn't even on-par with what most people come to HM's with - 186's.

This is the biggest issue I have myself. The rewards simply don't make the time invested worth it.

[Heat-Wave]

This fanboy isn't going to flame him.

 

I still can't figure you out... but that's ok...

 

Last night, ran 8m Ravagers with guildies, including 4 people who had never done it. We were all in teamspeak (god does that make all the difference), I was a tank, we wiped maybe 3 times the whole OP, but otherwise it went really smoothly. Two wipes on the second boss, once on the last one, otherwise a clean run.

 

That was fun, but to try it in HM, we'd need much better gear and many more runs to have everyone memorize it. The jump from SM to HM is rather steep in my mind. Maybe that is as it should be, but I am questioning why I'd run it again at this point.

 

I've now cleared it several times on 8m and 16m, I'm now in more 192 (and one 198) than I am 186 (and some of that 192 is the good token gear, the 186 is crafted good stuff, MK-2, etc.) I'm fully augmented on all 14 items in 186.

 

Now what? I can clear it over and over on SM, but that gear isn't quite good enough to do HM, unless perhaps everyone in the OP has it, and that group is harder to put together.

 

ToS is still too broken for my taste...

[Heat-Wave]

This is the biggest issue I have myself. The rewards simply don't make the time invested worth it.

 

If HM 60 FP GF daily rewarded 10 ultimate comms like it did before 3.0, then I think more people would run them.

 

I don't need more elite comms, that reward might as well not exist.

 

Other than the 1 or 2 bits of 192 that drop (which aren't great to begin with), I have no further reason to run them ever again.

[GopherLuV]

yea i'll give it to em, the bonus boss in rishi, is probably not downable without two cleansers and the healer needs 192+ full min/max... my fully 192 (resurrected) min/max commando, could barely hang on in there.. went through one compound 17 release, but couldnt recover from it with having to manage a cleanse as well, while making sure everyone is at the right stacks.. dulfy used two heals/two dps.. i see why... (also, had to be specced into cleanse reduction and my CD was at 8.3 seconds, almost as fast as you can get it, and it was still almost to long to do, especially if i wound up ONTOP of a GCD while the cleanse came off CD, it just doesnt work..)

[BrianDavion]

I still can't figure you out... but that's ok...

 

Last night, ran 8m Ravagers with guildies, including 4 people who had never done it. We were all in teamspeak (god does that make all the difference), I was a tank, we wiped maybe 3 times the whole OP, but otherwise it went really smoothly. Two wipes on the second boss, once on the last one, otherwise a clean run.

 

That was fun, but to try it in HM, we'd need much better gear and many more runs to have everyone memorize it. The jump from SM to HM is rather steep in my mind. Maybe that is as it should be, but I am questioning why I'd run it again at this point.

 

I've now cleared it several times on 8m and 16m, I'm now in more 192 (and one 198) than I am 186 (and some of that 192 is the good token gear, the 186 is crafted good stuff, MK-2, etc.) I'm fully augmented on all 14 items in 186.

 

Now what? I can clear it over and over on SM, but that gear isn't quite good enough to do HM, unless perhaps everyone in the OP has it, and that group is harder to put together.

 

ToS is still too broken for my taste...

 

lemme guess your wipes where all on Bulo? they need to do something with that boss, I'm not sure why BW has such a fetish for sliding in a really hard boss as the second fight and making the rest of a raid a comparitive cakewalk.

[Heat-Wave]

lemme guess your wipes where all on Bulo? they need to do something with that boss, I'm not sure why BW has such a fetish for sliding in a really hard boss as the second fight and making the rest of a raid a comparitive cakewalk.

 

You mean the last guy? Naa, he is pretty easy... It is those darn deck guns that hurt and sometimes can't be avoided no matter what you do. I was killed the first two times because I was tanking the bird and the bird did the knockdown thing just before the deck guns fired. Nothing you can do about that.

 

RNG as a game mechanic sucks.

[souloferdrick]

There was a time when I could wipe on raid bosses all night and not get frustrated or discouraged but those days are long gone now.

 

I wouldn't join a raid or party without the intent of seeing it through but people have less patience these days and Im not exactly going to fault them for it (ditching), especially if the rewards are subpar.

[Grayseven]

My problem with the current operations are mostly centered around the RNG elements that can wipe a group no matter how perfectly they are doing the mechanics.

 

With Bulo, it's the random jumping and random locations of the pirates. If they come out up top the first time, it can easily lead to a wipe if the tank can't get back to the boss and he starts firing into the raid. Or multiple lifters hit the same poor soul.

 

You get the same RNG stuff from Coratanni with the cannons.

 

Or the Underlurker rocks.

 

Then there are mechanics that require players to be in certain places with a game engine and/or server hardware that doesn't see the characters in the same location as their clients. I'd have thought that the Security Chief fight in Corporate Labs would have taught them a lesson about that or maybe they could have the server force an update before blasting the cross mechanic in Underlurker. Or the fact that 16man Torque SM has 5.8 million hp and is magnitudes harder than the 8 man.

 

I like challenges, but I do not like HM level challenges in SM ops. I like interesting and new mechanics, but not when those mechanics are inherently flawed because the games engine/hardware can't properly handle them.

 

Mostly, I dislike the complete lack of silence on these issues. Pages of dev responses to crap like CM bugs or PvP season 4 or class balance issues and not a single peep on whether or not they are aware of the operations issues or if those are intended and we just have to deal with it.

[Drexzil]

this game is going down hill fast. I can not even get into a 60 HM FP any more, the rewards are just not worth the time.

[Mowermanx]

My problem with the current operations are mostly centered around the RNG elements that can wipe a group no matter how perfectly they are doing the mechanics.

 

With Bulo, it's the random jumping and random locations of the pirates. If they come out up top the first time, it can easily lead to a wipe if the tank can't get back to the boss and he starts firing into the raid. Or multiple lifters hit the same poor soul.

 

You get the same RNG stuff from Coratanni with the cannons.

 

Or the Underlurker rocks.

 

Then there are mechanics that require players to be in certain places with a game engine and/or server hardware that doesn't see the characters in the same location as their clients. I'd have thought that the Security Chief fight in Corporate Labs would have taught them a lesson about that or maybe they could have the server force an update before blasting the cross mechanic in Underlurker. Or the fact that 16man Torque SM has 5.8 million hp and is magnitudes harder than the 8 man.

 

I like challenges, but I do not like HM level challenges in SM ops. I like interesting and new mechanics, but not when those mechanics are inherently flawed because the games engine/hardware can't properly handle them.

 

Mostly, I dislike the complete lack of silence on these issues. Pages of dev responses to crap like CM bugs or PvP season 4 or class balance issues and not a single peep on whether or not they are aware of the operations issues or if those are intended and we just have to deal with it.

 

I was going to reply with my views but after reading Grayseven's post, that pretty well sums up all my thoughts and opinions on the matter.

[Larsenex]

My problem with the current operations are mostly centered around the RNG elements that can wipe a group no matter how perfectly they are doing the mechanics.

 

With Bulo, it's the random jumping and random locations of the pirates. If they come out up top the first time, it can easily lead to a wipe if the tank can't get back to the boss and he starts firing into the raid. Or multiple lifters hit the same poor soul.

 

You get the same RNG stuff from Coratanni with the cannons.

 

Or the Underlurker rocks.

 

Then there are mechanics that require players to be in certain places with a game engine and/or server hardware that doesn't see the characters in the same location as their clients. I'd have thought that the Security Chief fight in Corporate Labs would have taught them a lesson about that or maybe they could have the server force an update before blasting the cross mechanic in Underlurker. Or the fact that 16man Torque SM has 5.8 million hp and is magnitudes harder than the 8 man.

 

I like challenges, but I do not like HM level challenges in SM ops. I like interesting and new mechanics, but not when those mechanics are inherently flawed because the games engine/hardware can't properly handle them.

 

Mostly, I dislike the complete lack of silence on these issues. Pages of dev responses to crap like CM bugs or PvP season 4 or class balance issues and not a single peep on whether or not they are aware of the operations issues or if those are intended and we just have to deal with it.

 

^^ This.

 

I posted a raging rant over in the Ops forums about the inability to complete the new HM's (Bloodhunt & Rishi) and the fact that the New ops are challenging and unforgiving. I think this post here pretty much sums up the problem.

 

I am actually going to cancel my sub, my girlfriends sub, and I am going to bring 5 friends of mine with me. All because its just not fun anymore.

 

There is ZERO and let me say it again, ZERO reason to cue up for the lvl 60 HM's. None! They are painful, likely to wipe, give you a repair bill and all to get 6 more elite coms over the 55 Hm's AND the gear is complete crap as well. Frankly the entire comms gear is crap and I just dont feel like its improving me in the least.

 

Again its the silence that speaks volumes.

 

Whats silly is my friend and I were talking about when we would form up 16 man raids 4x a week on fleet and there would be 4 to 5 each night forming up. Now there are NONE and really who wants that pain? The game went from FUN to (not) FUN very fast and I do not think the Dev team really cares or is listening. I would love to be proven wrong.

[g_land]

So they have fixed much of the lag issues with things like underlurker. It was pretty bad and that cross mechanic was atrocious prior to 3.1.

 

However, the rng on things like rocks on underlurker and deck guns on coratanni prevent it from absolutely being a "tank is bored standing in one place while everyone avoids mechanics while standing is a set place" boring.

 

As to difficulties of the 60 HM flashpoints in comparison to prior to 3.0. Most people forget that in a content cycle near the end things will be easier because of over gearing and a lot more people have been able to go through the instances due to large amount of time. At the beginning of a cycle, there is no dramatic overgearing so players have to be better and have more personal responsibility which leads to the content being run in guild groups more than pugs. Now is the lot from flashpoints not as rewarding as getting a comm equivalent piece drop from an op, yes. But are they so difficult that as the content cycle progresses they will maintain their current relative difficulty? No.

 

Lastly... @grayseven the pirates on bulo are not random, they spawn as a function of where the person who has aggro is standing

[Pirana]

You need to figure out mechanics, and how they function. If you cannot do that, then you will fail. These are not for the casual gamer, that's what Story Mode is for. (barring bugs)

 

Do the rewards for the HM content blow? Pretty much.

 

Other than that. Learn.

 

Edited February 19, 2015 by Pirana

[Sala]

I have to agree with the OP. Difficult and more challenging content is what Hardmode and Nightmare mode are for. When many of the players can't complete the weekly GF 16m, then you know there's an issue.

 

ToS is the supposed to be 1 of the 2 choices you have at the end of the revan story, by means of completing it. That right there shows the problem, only die hard very good raid groups can get past underlurker, much less even think about a 16m.

 

Ravagers 16 was impossible on Bulo, then fixed and is now impossible on Torque. 2 months after the release of this content and it's still not fixed.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love the SoR expansion, love the new content but there are major issues that have no been addressed whatsoever, that should have taken priority.

 

For those of us who have already ran the other ops, TFB, SNV, DF, DP, they're not even worth it now. That leaves us only with Ravagers and ToS.

 

I won't complain about hardmode stuff, that is where the major challenge should be. Storymode ops should not be broken like this.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Sala

[Halinalle]

It's not a new thing. When KDY was released SGO caused many groups to wipe because you just can't dps adds fast enough especially if you're a tank. Yes, everyone ignored the adds. Then they said it's bugged because there was so much incoming damage. After few tries they started to leave, one by one without saying anything other than "Bug! Bug!". It didn't matter if you tried to explain the fight.

 

Do you know what's sad about it? it's the second easiest boss in the game.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Halinalle

[DisIzMe]

You need to figure out mechanics, and how they function. If you cannot do that, then you will fail. These are not for the casual gamer, that's what Story Mode is for. (barring bugs)

 

Do the rewards for the HM content blow? Pretty much.

 

Other than that. Learn.

 

Yeah, Pug gf fp. Learn. Riiiight.

Try to do Rishi bonus boss with one healer, even in a non-pug group in which there is no other "fast" cleanser - all your learning will not help you there. It needs specific set-up with at least 2 "fast" cleansers - why to hell it is in random gf then?

[Mavolio]

...with one healer, even in a non-pug group in which there is no other "fast" cleanser - all your learning will not help you there. It needs specific set-up with at least 2 "fast" cleansers

 

A majority of other games have 5 man grouping(s) and ever since I started this game it always bugged me that we have 4 man groups. I seem to get the feeling that we're actually missing the "fifth wheel" in the group with some of these fights now a days especially with the way the mechanics have been tweeked.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Mavolio

[TX_Angel]

As to difficulties of the 60 HM flashpoints in comparison to prior to 3.0. Most people forget that in a content cycle near the end things will be easier because of over gearing and a lot more people have been able to go through the instances due to large amount of time. At the beginning of a cycle, there is no dramatic overgearing so players have to be better and have more personal responsibility which leads to the content being run in guild groups more than pugs. Now is the lot from flashpoints not as rewarding as getting a comm equivalent piece drop from an op, yes. But are they so difficult that as the content cycle progresses they will maintain their current relative difficulty? No.

 

But you're missing the point... there is no reason to run HM 60 FP, easy or hard... Nothing you get from them is worth anything... more elite comms? meh, dime a dozen... 10 from 55 HM FP is a far better way to earn those, it is faster with fewer troubles... SM Ravagers is a better way to earn them... Weeklies on various daily areas is a better way to earn them...

 

If HM 60 FP gave 10 or 16 ultimate comms instead of elites, it would get some interest, but as it stands, they are completely pointless. Even the comms gear for ultimate comms is pretty crappy, but a lot of people don't know that and would run them to get "ultimates"

[Pirana]

Yeah, Pug gf fp. Learn. Riiiight.

Try to do Rishi bonus boss with one healer, even in a non-pug group in which there is no other "fast" cleanser - all your learning will not help you there. It needs specific set-up with at least 2 "fast" cleansers - why to hell it is in random gf then?

 

So, in other words you can't.

[TX_Angel]

So, in other words you can't.

 

Well aren't you a bright ray of sunshine?

[Fleurdelis]

I think the devs need to play their own content and see how screwed it is then maybe we could get some fixes.

[Ruskaeth]

ToS is still too broken for my taste...

 

How is it broken?