mighty_joe Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 If OP would demand his greatness to be rewarded more I would still think he is some kind of narcissist, but I would accept the merit of his argument. but demanding a noob he roflstomped not to be rewarded at all - and thus completely discouraging new people in pvp makes him just another jerk. so any following argument invalid ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtJeremy Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I don't agree with his assessment to reward people with absolutely nothing, but at the same time, when its objective based PVP, the people who contribute something to completing the objective should be rewarded more than a person who soloing in the corner away from any objective. They do, with Warzone medals. If you go straight TDM in a Warzone like Novare Coast or whatever you'll be hard pressed to hit the 8 medal cap for comms. It could be argued that it is very much easy to hit the 8 medal cap, but you'll need a lot of Deeps and kills which you'd probably not be very likely to get going off on your own trying to TDM kids when your team is going for the objectives. I'd like to see that cap pushed to 10 or 12 medals personally so they reward the people doing the objectives more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Your post is funny, nothing stops people, starting with Tatooine, to do Open World PvP in SWTOR... LOL! Obviously you've never tried huh?! The games engine prevents it. That's why Ilum was removed and OWPvP sucks. I used to try to get groups together but the lag killed any possible fun. Even WZ's are limited to 8v8 because of this games engine. Also...since SWTOR PvP is all about gear, any activity that doesn't aid in getting or improving a players gear, is unlikely to attract players, despite a players desire for PvP. Rewards are missing from OW PvP...as such, there's little reason to do it since time is limited for most players, and grinding out a new PvP set takes exponentially longer than any PvE set (I do both and I stand behind that statement 100%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FantaBuoy Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Is it frustrating when you lose a match because your team doesn't seem to know the word "objectives"? Yes. Should we punish people who have 0 objective points? No. Why? Simply because, as stated above by other people, there are plenty of situations in which you actively contribute to the game and don't get objective points because you weren't close enough to the node/objective. You did your job, but because you weren't doing your job inside a specific area, you don't get objective points. So, either you find a better way to distribute objective points, or you learn to deal with it, because IMO it's not worth punishing those who actually did something but didn't get points because they were more than X meters away from the node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 if you are that bad, you still dont deserve any reward and should probably not queue for pvp. either way. Sounds to me as if you were one of these gankers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaden_Antilles Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 It sure is frustrating when you're on a team that doesn't seem to know what to do. I've tried explaining the objectives and more often than not one or two players come around. It's the others that think by dying in the middle or away from the objective is how the game is played that get folks ticked off. These people are usually either: alts of good pvpers just messing around, or new players that aren't reading chat due to being overwhelmed or over immersed (i.e. tunnel vision) in their fight. A good solution for the new players is an introductory round for each pvp game type. Queue the new players against npcs that actually go for objectives but only pvp when attacked, with clear system messages on the screen about the objectives and tactics for that particular game type. Alas I don't see this ever happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turshek Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 LOL! Obviously you've never tried huh?! The games engine prevents it. That's why Ilum was removed and OWPvP sucks. I used to try to get groups together but the lag killed any possible fun. Even WZ's are limited to 8v8 because of this games engine. Also...since SWTOR PvP is all about gear, any activity that doesn't aid in getting or improving a players gear, is unlikely to attract players, despite a players desire for PvP. Rewards are missing from OW PvP...as such, there's little reason to do it since time is limited for most players, and grinding out a new PvP set takes exponentially longer than any PvE set (I do both and I stand behind that statement 100%). I"m perfectly aware of the engine limitations, the problems on Ilum... I even beta tested SWTOR in July 2011. I was answering from a design POV to one of thoses SWG fans and if you want to talk about the engine's problem here, we can also spend a lot of time talking about the lagfest that was SWG. I have no problem remembering the slideshow it was, how the characters position was often out of sync between servers and the client, how you could try to drag corpses and fail because they werent where you could see them... So, from this point of view, I don't see the differences between SWTOR and SWG, you can do Open World PvP but the engines failed to enable massive battles. As for your 2nd part, again my answer was about "No objectives other then the PvP itself" ie an OWPvP design with no progression, no reward... which doesn't appeal to many. The problem is not that much PvP gear (otherwise we would see more small scale OWPvP one month after the introduction of a new set of PvP gear until the next one) but the lack of rewards, progression, long term goal. While it's enough for a few players to know they killed some other players, many more prefer to have specific rewards, special abilities, conquerable objectives, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magira Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 And people wonder why pvp hasn't gained any traction with the main part of the community. It's this attitude right here. Nobody wants to play with people like you. Or at least not many. I don't think you deserve to log into the game, but you do anyway. The more this attitude hits the forums / gen chat / whatever the less likely the pvp community grows, and the less likely we get new maps. So keep up being part of the problem instead of part of the solution. My hat is off to you. As a matter of fact. I only play PVP and GSF and since the beta. In PVP very different people meet. Some are interested in class mechanics, another love the sandbox feel and others need PVP to compensate for deficits in offline life. Unfortunately, the last mentioned now constitute the majority and disgusting everything from the PVP does not correspond to their petty E-Pen attitudes. Fortunately, the situation in the GSF is completely different. Here are a community has formed, supported the newcomers and helps them to become good pilots. Both PVP, but the atmosphere could not be more different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vosxiss Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 You can't win a warzone without dps. If the enemy isn't dying, you won't be capping. It's entirely possible for a few people to land kills, and pave the way for you to do objectives. Btdubz, if a ranged is standing close enough to the node to be getting objective points, he's doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I"m perfectly aware of the engine limitations, the problems on Ilum... I even beta tested SWTOR in July 2011. I was answering from a design POV to one of thoses SWG fans and if you want to talk about the engine's problem here, we can also spend a lot of time talking about the lagfest that was SWG. I have no problem remembering the slideshow it was, how the characters position was often out of sync between servers and the client, how you could try to drag corpses and fail because they werent where you could see them... So, from this point of view, I don't see the differences between SWTOR and SWG, you can do Open World PvP but the engines failed to enable massive battles. As for your 2nd part, again my answer was about "No objectives other then the PvP itself" ie an OWPvP design with no progression, no reward... which doesn't appeal to many. The problem is not that much PvP gear (otherwise we would see more small scale OWPvP one month after the introduction of a new set of PvP gear until the next one) but the lack of rewards, progression, long term goal. While it's enough for a few players to know they killed some other players, many more prefer to have specific rewards, special abilities, conquerable objectives, ... We agree completely, SWG's performance, despite what others may think it was like. Neither game is that far ahead of the other in terms of larger scale PvP. SWTOR clearly has demonstrable issues...but like you said, SWG had them nearly as bad... (NGE seemed no worse than Ilum did to me). MMOs are about "stuff" and getting "stuff"...players like their rewards. Ego and pride drove old school PvP...not today's kids (gamers...I don't mean to imply people who like rewards are children). They want "stuff" for doing what they do. Whatever rewards "stuff" is where they'll be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magira Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) You can't win a warzone without dps. If the enemy isn't dying, you won't be capping. It's entirely possible for a few people to land kills, and pave the way for you to do objectives. Btdubz, if a ranged is standing close enough to the node to be getting objective points, he's doing it wrong. No. I get objective points still in 60m distance with my Assasin. This is my normal distance when im deffing and using the phase Walk. Also, I've been won several warzones with SAP, Force lift and phase Walk without ever having done damage. Edited February 11, 2015 by Magira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darslk Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I fully support objective play. Huttball is the best game type ever, and the first arena is better than Queshball. Anyhow, there are loads of times I've played objective the whole game and it just hasn't turned into objective points. Huttball is an easy one, if you're knocking people around, stunning, rooting, pulling etc. You can do a lot of objective play and not get many points. Guarding any node, except for Voidstar, is another case. Guarding out of range as an assassin/shadow is the way to go. Fighting in mid in AH can result in no objective medals, when you're actually trying to keep your team from dying (and give the other team points), kill their team (and get points), and prevent orb runs. Meanwhile, three newbies sit on the node and rack up points. Objective points does not mean you're playing good objective, and neither does a lack of objective points mean you're not playing the objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vosxiss Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 No. I get objective points still in 60m distance with my Assasin. This is my normal distance when im deffing and using the phase Walk. Also, I've been won several warzones with SAP, Force lift and phase Walk without ever having done damage. Voidstar defense isn't that long a range, neither is ACW if I remember correctly, novare might have a big range but idk. Anywho, if you won with nothing but CC, then someone else was doing the killing. DPS is underrated in warzones, they can't cap you from the graveyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magira Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 DPS is underrated in warzones, they can't cap you from the graveyard. DPS is overrated. Pure occupational therapy for classes that can neither defending nor Ninjainig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts