The Clone Wars or Rebels

[phalczen]

Rebels can be a decent show, but in comparison to TCW its an embarrassment. And It continues to baffle me how the creators of the Clone Wars could go on to make a show that is so sub-standard in comparison. Its childish. And when I say childish I don't mean aimed at children (although in part it is) but that it feels as if its been made by children.

 

On top of that it has an evidently minuscule budget, the entire series (and apparently the galaxy) revolves around the backwater planet called Lothal that is basically a white-wash of cream coloured fields and mounds i.e. boring. And yet it appears that they lack the budget to animate other worlds, so instead they've chosen to shoe horn every aspect of the storyline to somehow tie in to the planet. For example for no particular reason the bad guys are all HQed there, it just so happens to be the location of a forgotten Jedi Temple and in the latest episode Grand Moff frikken Tarkin decided it was worth a visit. What next, Darth Vader? Emperor Palpatine decides to take a holiday? i wouldn't be surprised.

 

Simply put for all the good moments it has, which it does, it has an equal number of cringe worthy fails and disappointments to match. Unless you are a hardcore fan of Star Wars, I wouldn't recommend bothering.

 

Lothal has a Seinar Fleet Systems facility and a training academy and a submissive populace, perfect to justify the imperial presence and attract the rebels. Tarkin is next week isn't it? I agree with you it is rather boring, but the KOTOR version of Dantooine was pretty uninteresting too, imo.

What gets me is that after like three failed attempts by the Inquisitor to capture this Jedi Master and his padawan, wouldn't Vader have tended to this personally? I mean, we're 11 episodes into the season and Bail Organa, Lando Calrissian, and Yoda have already shown up, with Tarkin next week. It seems only fitting.

 

 

At least it utilizes more of the original trilogy soundtrack/music than TCW.

[light_senshi]

Tbh at this point, I'm just saying the Stormtroopers are just jobbing and of course main chars being protected by plot armor. Because in no way shape or form, were Stormtroopers EVER inept in the movies, if people actually took in the scenes they watched.

 

Which is funny, because as I see it. Lucas actually made the nameless bad guys actually a legit force in the movies, compared to other movies with bad guys who miss their targets because of plot and were incompetent.

 

Lucas actually wove in reasons as to WHY Stormtroopers were missing, not just because and then when the gloves came off, Stormtroopers were actually doing damage.

 

It's my understanding (and I'm hardly an expert) that the Imperial Stormtroopers were supposed to be the equivalent of special forces. Imagine your reaction if SEALS were portrayed as inept.

 

The animation style doesn't seem that much different than that used in the Clone Wars series, at least not to me. For me, it's more related to plot and reoccurring characters that's the big turn off. You can only stretch suspension of disbelief so far before the viewer can't accept it. And that's usually a different amount for each person.

 

Was it nice to see something other than the usual humancentric characters? Yes. I can't say the last time I saw a Twilek (for example) displayed as a hero/heroine rather than a simple piece of background.

[Wolfninjajedi]

It's my understanding (and I'm hardly an expert) that the Imperial Stormtroopers were supposed to be the equivalent of special forces. Imagine your reaction if SEALS were portrayed as inept.

 

The animation style doesn't seem that much different than that used in the Clone Wars series, at least not to me. For me, it's more related to plot and reoccurring characters that's the big turn off. You can only stretch suspension of disbelief so far before the viewer can't accept it. And that's usually a different amount for each person.

 

Was it nice to see something other than the usual humancentric characters? Yes. I can't say the last time I saw a Twilek (for example) displayed as a hero/heroine rather than a simple piece of background.

 

Yeah, Stormtroopers are pretty much special forces. Infact, they are noted as a special forces unit.

 

The Empire employs a number of special military units throughout the various branches that perform specialized tasks. Stormtroopers fall into this category by their very nature.

 

- Taken from Imperial Sourcebook 2

 

The Imperial Army Troopers are the actual planet bound fighting forces, just a regular army. Although they are pretty awesome too. We just never see them in the movies(except for the AT-ST/AT-AT Imperial Army Pilots) because for the most part, it's all special missions for the Empire.

 

IE: DS plans, Battle of Hoth(although the Stormtroopers are also the shock/1st to fight force), Bespin and Endor.

[LordCJK]

CaulderBenson, first of all, my purpose was not to argue about Rebels. No, I utterly agree with your reasoning that ''Rebels'' is exactly what Disney wanted them to be. Yes,

Rebels' purpose is to get new kids into Star Wars. Hence the main focus being a young kid training to be a jedi. He's adopted into a family, flying on a starship, having adventures, etc.

I just don't get how it makes the show better for those in this topic. I'll comment on that again further.

I actually don't care.

Well, then you don't care for Star Wars as well. What can I say if you declare that you don't care if post-ROTJ story would be described only in ''preschool'' reading? Or, maybe, I misunderstood you.

You should be mindful and not ascribe opinions to someone else casually. It makes you sound foolish.

Easy, what is the need for an agression? Besides, I've ascriben nothing. I said that I was sure about it.

I didn't complain about the reading level.

What do you mean as ''didn't complain''? You have endured them or you actually liked as you would've liked a serious( as serious as the Episodes ) novel?

Rebels' purpose is to get new kids into Star Wars. Hence the main focus being a young kid training to be a jedi. He's adopted into a family, flying on a starship, having adventures, etc.

Disney is very wisely planning long-term with Star Wars. Rebels was the first part of that plan. I see fans wanting this show to be something it's apparently not intended to be. That's a foolish endeavor.

Well , only because the company politics are wise from a business point of view doesn't mean it is actually nice. In fact, usually it is contrary.

My only problem with that is already been explained. Since they retcon TFU, I deem the whole concept of Rebels to be pretty important to the story - to know how the rebellion was given birth to. It's almost as important as downfall of the Republic to the story of OT.

And yes, it is important to attract new audience to Star Wars. But I we're not discussing business plans or corporate strategies. Besides, it wasn't much of a problem back to the OT, was it? Many of us watched OT as kids and that's the reason we love Star Wars( in general ).

Disney apparently feels that the real magic of Star Wars is the original trilogy era, not the prequel era.

And there is nothing wrong with it. I'm not one of the many who hate PT, I like it very much, but the world and atmoshpere of the OT is much better. Yep, OT wasn't very serious, but who's asking for the darkness and tragedy all the way?

That's actually the second problem I have with ''Rebels''. I like OT very much. It's really exciting to get something major on the Empire's era. But then you know...

Well, I really wasn't commenting your post with intention to discuss the ''Rebels'' themselves, because I don't think I can judge the show without watching all of it( although still can't make myself to do it after first episodes ). So I assume it's either as you people here deem it to be or similiar to the first episodes. I mostly wanted to comment on the differences between ''good for company profit'' and ''simply good''.

Edited February 7, 2015 by LordCJK

[ImmortalLowlife]

For me It's simple... With rebels, my three year old twins both sit glued to the tv whenever it's on. As do my 13 & 12yr olds.... The big kids like TCW, the little ones...not so much. But the twins do know the rebels characters by name lol. I enjoy anything that keeps them quiet for extended periods of time I've got TCW on BluRay...every season. That's how much I enjoyed it. I'm not convinced one way or the other with rebels so far although they've had some cool moments... Like

Lando!

but I'm willing to give it a chance. But imho they've got a long way to go before I'll say anyone in "rebels" is better than Starkiller...

[VitalityPrime]

Well, after watching a couple episodes of Rebels...I can never say it will be better than TCW...but I can definitely say it has a lot of potential...particularly with it's characters and their growth.

 

I really do like that it focuses on one particular group of characters....unlike TCW.

[DarthDementor]

Clone Wars is better, at least for now. I also think that 12 episodes into its first season, it had become more exciting than Rebels is currently at this stage. TCW had had good episodes such as the Malevolence arc and Rookies to name a few. So far nothing memorable about Rebels springs to my mind. The cameos have been meh. The villains arent compelling, the protagonists have potential but so far nothing stands out about them.

 

George Lucas may have made some weird decisions but he seemed to have direction. Rebels seems to lack direction. Hopefully it will get bet better.

Edited February 9, 2015 by DarthDementor

[Beniboybling]

George Lucas may have made some weird decisions but he seemed to have direction.

I honestly think Lucas might be the missing link here, however I don't know just how involved he was in TCW, however he appeared pretty heavy handed, and contributed a lot of ideas, I think he would have made Rebels better.

[Galdos]

Yeah, Stormtroopers are pretty much special forces. Infact, they are noted as a special forces unit.

 

 

 

The Imperial Army Troopers are the actual planet bound fighting forces, just a regular army. Although they are pretty awesome too. We just never see them in the movies(except for the AT-ST/AT-AT Imperial Army Pilots) because for the most part, it's all special missions for the Empire.

 

IE: DS plans, Battle of Hoth(although the Stormtroopers are also the shock/1st to fight force), Bespin and Endor.

This both is and isnt exactly correct. Its been a hot topic of fans on what actually are Stormtroopers as different sources treat them very differently.

 

They are NOT Special Forces however. Imperial Stormtroopers are regularly deployed in large scale military actions that would see the waste of the skill set of Special Forces. (The Battle of Hoth is a great example in the original trilogy. Combing the deserts of Tatooine is another example)

 

However we know the Imperial Army exist and that Stormtroopers are far more dangerous (Timothy Zahn really hit this home)

 

Im in the belief that Stormtroopers are more like Marines to the Imperial Army being basic army personal. A step above but not in a whole different league.

 

 

This is one of those things that has always been very strange on how Stormtroopers are deployed.

[Wolfninjajedi]

This both is and isnt exactly correct. Its been a hot topic of fans on what actually are Stormtroopers as different sources treat them very differently.

 

They are NOT Special Forces however. Imperial Stormtroopers are regularly deployed in large scale military actions that would see the waste of the skill set of Special Forces. (The Battle of Hoth is a great example in the original trilogy. Combing the deserts of Tatooine is another example)

 

However we know the Imperial Army exist and that Stormtroopers are far more dangerous (Timothy Zahn really hit this home)

 

Im in the belief that Stormtroopers are more like Marines to the Imperial Army being basic army personal. A step above but not in a whole different league.

 

 

This is one of those things that has always been very strange on how Stormtroopers are deployed.

 

They do both, they do large scale battles and special missions. Battle of Hoth was a large scale, Death Star plans was special, Bespin was special, Endor was large scale/special, etc.

 

Although the term special missions, I'm sure were thinking of two different things here.

 

By the by, which novels have Zhan wrote that focus on Stormtroopers and how dangerous they are?

 

I have plenty of comics and a few novels(Allegiance and Choices of One to name a few) showcasing how awesome Stormtroopers are, but I'm wondering if I missed anything?

Edited February 10, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Galdos]

They do both, they do large scale battles and special missions. Battle of Hoth was a large scale, Death Star plans was special, Bespin was special, Endor was large scale/special, etc.

 

Although the term special missions, I'm sure were thinking of two different things here.

 

By the by, which novels have Zhan wrote that focus on Stormtroopers and how dangerous they are?

 

I have plenty of comics and a few novels(Allegiance and Choices of One to name a few) showcasing how awesome Stormtroopers are, but I'm wondering if I missed anything?

 

 

The Death Star plans? You mean that Tantive IV incident? Which would be a massive waste of the skills of Special Forces and their lives and would be better suited towards Shock Troopers. Not Special Forces.

 

Same with Bespin, thats a massive city they need to lock down and secure, not the job of a Special Forces unit but of a large scale military units.

 

We are discussing to different things you are right. My original post was referring to someone who referred to them as Special Forces like that of Navy SEALs which is not accurate as the Empire already has elite commando units that would do that job. I mean you would never picture a Navy SEALs unit being tasked with forcing a massive city with potential millions of people into a quarantine/martial law, while searching for a group of wanted terrorist

 

 

In the Thrawn Trilogy they do it more as a comparison. A few people will comment about how they are far more dangerous the regular army units.

[Wolfninjajedi]

The Death Star plans? You mean that Tantive IV incident? Which would be a massive waste of the skills of Special Forces and their lives and would be better suited towards Shock Troopers. Not Special Forces.

 

Same with Bespin, thats a massive city they need to lock down and secure, not the job of a Special Forces unit but of a large scale military units.

 

We are discussing to different things you are right. My original post was referring to someone who referred to them as Special Forces like that of Navy SEALs which is not accurate as the Empire already has elite commando units that would do that job. I mean you would never picture a Navy SEALs unit being tasked with forcing a massive city with potential millions of people into a quarantine/martial law, while searching for a group of wanted terrorist

 

 

In the Thrawn Trilogy they do it more as a comparison. A few people will comment about how they are far more dangerous the regular army units.

 

Well more like finding the plans on Tatooine.

 

Ah, yeah they aren't that. I suppose a better term would be high profile missions.

 

Ah I see. I think I have some of those comparisons. Although tbh, I wanna see more regular Army Troopers and the like, it's a shame that they don't appear much. I got a few comics in which they appear, they are pretty awesome. I hope the new EU shows more of em.

[Beniboybling]

Well more like finding the plans on Tatooine.

 

Ah, yeah they aren't that. I suppose a better term would be high profile missions.

 

Ah I see. I think I have some of those comparisons. Although tbh, I wanna see more regular Army Troopers and the like, it's a shame that they don't appear much. I got a few comics in which they appear, they are pretty awesome. I hope the new EU shows more of em.

If they still exist in the EU. Even from the EU as it stands it would be easy to assume that Stormtroopers made up the bulk of the Imperial Military, Rebels isn't exactly contradicting this with Stormtroopers stationed on Lothal.

[Wolfninjajedi]

If they still exist in the EU. Even from the EU as it stands it would be easy to assume that Stormtroopers made up the bulk of the Imperial Military, Rebels isn't exactly contradicting this with Stormtroopers stationed on Lothal.

 

Even in the old EU, Stormtroopers were seen everywhere, yet the Imperial Army was still around, Rebels showing them doesn't really mean much. Hilarious that really and they should still exist, given they appear in the movies(abit moreso as the AT-ST drivers, AT-AT ones).

 

Plus in the new EU as of Vader's new 1st comic issue.

 

 

General Tagge survived the DS destruction, he was an Imperial Army General. So we could possibly see the Imperial Army still around.

 

 

Plus it's not like they can't appear in other EU material anyway, even if they don't appear in Rebels. I hope they are still around though, because that's one of the things that made the GE different than the GAR. They didn't have just one set of troops that did everything, they had a shock force(Stormtrooper Corps) and planetary ground force(Imperial Army), along with their Navy.

 

That and in the movies, you saw different uniforms. Green, Black and Blue, so they could still be around.

 

Making the Empire exactly like the GAR where they just have 1 fighting force isn't creative, it's gotta be different than just a simple appearance change.

 

Also in the novel Tarkin, COMPNOR and Imperial Intelligence was mentioned. It's not a stretch to figure, that the Imperial Army won't be mentioned or included in the EU at some point.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Nydus]

I haven't seen Rebels yet. It took me many, many years (and a few episodes) to get into Clone Wars but it was quite enjoyable by the conclusion. That makes me think that Rebels has an opportunity to iron out any kinks that it might have to start with.

 

RE Asoka - As with Clone Wars in general, I didn't care for her that much to start with but she became quite an interesting character when she began to get out from under Anikan. I would like some closure on her character...

[Beniboybling]

IRE Asoka - As with Clone Wars in general, I didn't care for her that much to start with but she became quite an interesting character when she began to get out from under Anikan. I would like some closure on her character...

Ahsoka is supposed to be featuring in Season 2 of Rebels...

[Nydus]

Ahsoka is supposed to be featuring in Season 2 of Rebels...

 

Having not watched the show, I'm not sure how I feel about that . If they are bringing her back to resolve the character that would be fine, but if it is just to add her to the show...

 

...well, that is all fine and good but what happens when it too eventually gets cancelled. Lets finish off a story arc please.

 

- Arcada

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ahsoka is supposed to be featuring in Season 2 of Rebels...

 

Hope she finally ends. Fighting the Inquistor would be interesting and would further solidify him as an actual threat, because now he's just so...ugh. Well ok the newest episode, did re-establish him as an awesome character but still.

 

Or...seeing as Vader is gonna appear. Perhaps Ahsoka vs Vader?

Edited February 11, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[VitalityPrime]

Hope she finally ends. Fighting the Inquistor would be interesting and would further solidify him as an actual threat, because now he's just so...ugh. Well ok the newest episode, did establish him as an awesome character but still.

 

Or...seeing as Vader is gonna appear. Perhaps Ahsoka vs Vader?

 

Either way I'm not keen on her surviving in Rebels, because then that's already breaking yet another thing like TCW did.

 

That would not solidify him...that would ruin Ahsoka's character.

 

I think Ahsoka...as seen at the end of TCW, could take the Inquisitor.

 

So she should easily be able to take him now.

 

However, her sacrificing herself at the hands of Vader and some stormtroopers (ie. being killed in a fight against Vader and some stormtroopers)...to allow the rebels to escape or something...would make for a great ending for her.

Edited February 11, 2015 by VitalityPrime

[Beniboybling]

Hope she finally ends. Fighting the Inquistor would be interesting and would further solidify him as an actual threat, because now he's just so...ugh. Well ok the newest episode, did re-establish him as an awesome character but still.

Lol Ashoka would slap the Inquisitor around like a plebian. Edited February 11, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

Lol Ashoka would slap the Inquisitor around like a plebian.

 

How do you know? We may not have seen the full extent of the Inquistor, he could be better than what we actually see of him, or could improve. He's pretty much toyed with Kanan throughout, whose to say he isn't better than what he appears as? Or that he won't become better?

 

Sheesh you guys don't have much faith for this guy, it's called character development ya know.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Wolfninjajedi]

That would not solidify him...that would ruin Ahsoka's character.

 

I think Ahsoka...as seen at the end of TCW, could take the Inquisitor.

 

So she should easily be able to take him now.

 

However, her sacrificing herself at the hands of Vader and some stormtroopers (ie. being killed in a fight against Vader and some stormtroopers)...to allow the rebels to escape or something...would make for a great ending for her.

 

How does it ruin her character? The Inquistor could be better than what is shown or could become better.

 

Although that last bit, yeah that would be good.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

How do you know? We may not have seen the full extent of the Inquistor, he could be better than what we actually see of him, or could improve. He's pretty much toyed with Kanan throughout, whose to say he isn't better than what he appears as?

Ahsoka > Inquisitor.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ahsoka > Inquisitor.

 

You don't know that.

 

As of right now? Possibly yes, but as the series goes on? We don't know.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

You don't know that.

 

As of right now? Possibly yes, but as the series goes on? We don't know.

 

Seriously though, Ahsoka has been described as an advanced Padawan, had an excellent lightsaber instructor and has showings that put her on Jedi Knight level and in some respects above. The fact that she could hold her own against the likes of Grievous and Asajj Ventress strongly indicates that in her prime she'd be above an Inquisitor.

 

I'm expecting pretty impressive showings from Ahsoka, if her record is anything to go by. I also think if Ahsoka is going to die in combat, it would most certainly be against Vader as opposed to the Inquisitor, for a more poignant death.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Beniboybling