When Did We As MMO gamers get so Greedy

[falkerman]

I dont build cars, but I expect any car I buy to start properly without waiting 49mins to get going, to not randomly just stop, to steer correctly and to have all modern features such as airbags, air conditioning, and such like.

 

I dont expect some 1970s piece of crap just because it was good enough then it should be now...

 

I expect the same things in my computer games.

 

Its called progress. Any new product has to compete with the current market, not some nostalgic view of how things were 7years ago.

 

 

What's with these idiots comparing cars to computer programs?

 

To answer your statement, dolt, I'll explain that cars have been around for 100 years, and yet every single year, there are dozens of recalls and malfunctions. Just because something has existed for a long time doesn't mean that perfection is guaranteed.

 

And you can expect all you want, but the reality is that nothing is perfect. WoW has been around for over 7 years now and there are still problems that people gripe about. Heck, every time they've released a new dungeon, raid, BG, zone, or they change class abilities or whatever... you get a slew of complaints about bugs and things that are broken. Don't believe me? Check the forums, it's lousy with complaints!

 

Have patience and enjoy what's given to you, instead of whining about what's not there yet.

[Merup]

So far I think that TOR is the best MMO to date, and it has not even been released for two weeks yet

[jestertron]

Since the Wrath of the Lich King expansion of World of Warcraft came out. 13 million people had a standard at that point of how a good mmo is to be developed, played, and serviced.

 

After that, nothing was the same or anything different/innovative was able to be released without the pickiest players in the world either boycotting or forum whining about it. Plus also when you pay to play a game, one expects to have the entire world given to them.

 

I remember a time of ************ that I wasn't in the Starcraft II beta and my reasoning was I was a Blizzard customer since 12 years old and a WoW subscriber for 5 years. One person stated the obvious: "your subscription just allows you the privilege to play their game. you shouldn't get anything special. you just play the game."

 

And she was right. Plus this game has been officially out for less than a week and we are still in it's free month. People need to calm the hell down and wait a couple of major patches later to make their professional gamer opinions.

[Rohanshot]

Is it just a conincidence that you posted this on Christmas?

[Darkercrab]

All I want is a civil debate, just sayin that so please no one lets go down the road of flame wars/insulting. It hasnt started yet, but im gonna be cautious xD.

 

Merry Christmas ^_-

Edited December 25, 2011 by Darkercrab

[Cameirus]

As per the poster above, to some point your right. But again, until you open a game to MASS testing, aka release you will never find every single tiny bug unless they had kept the game away friom us for another five years.

 

What? Like that huge public beta they had?

 

And do they not have a QA department.

 

Small example: if you tick the hide cover bar option it resets if you log out, change instance or go on a load screen....that got past testing did it?

[its_them]

I dont build cars, but I expect any car I buy to start properly without waiting 49mins to get going, to not randomly just stop, to steer correctly and to have all modern features such as airbags, air conditioning, and such like.

 

I dont expect some 1970s piece of crap just because it was good enough then it should be now...

 

I expect the same things in my computer games.

 

Its called progress. Any new product has to compete with the current market, not some nostalgic view of how things were 7years ago.

 

Post = win

 

Dont get me wrong im enjoying the game but you cant make no excuses for a game on a 100million dollar budget produced by a A+++ Studio for forgetting basic things a modern mmorpg should have

Edited December 25, 2011 by its_them

[Cameirus]

Door is that way. --->

 

yes it is. and I'll use it probably.

 

 

 

Think on that. Is it good that people are thinking of leaving so soon after launch? really. You can be as flippant as you want about it, but is that really a good sign?

[JudgeMentalOne]

Most of what you say I agree with.

 

However for correctness RIFT at release had 2 lvls of heroics, the raid rifts which were completely do-able for the most part, and a 20 man raid.

The only problem with the raid was that for the first few weeks to a month or so it was bugged and too easy.

 

Rift was also released with a system that let you have 4 "specs" and switch between them at any time as long as you weren't in combat and could stand still for the 2 second cast.

 

 

As said I mostly agree with what you say and all my complaints are quite small. However in this day and age its not really accptable to not include stuff that other games have. Just coz they didn't have it when they were released is no real excuse, they have now, so should you.

 

Also some of the things missing from the game are extremely basic fundamental things that make me wonder *** they were doing with all their time. No autostacking for you bank or inventory for example. its not gamebreaking, just a little annoying but its a basic thing that should have been in.

 

Another feature that should have been in was a customiseable UI. Warhammer, Aion, and RIFT all had one at launch, any thing new released now pretty much HAS to have one coz we're used to it, we expect it.

 

I love the game atm and can see myself playing for quite awhile, even if my complaints go unanswered. I just really hope they fix/polish/improve/add the many small basic things we've come to experct quickly as the game would be greatly improved by it.

[emartell]

They only release it because people accept it the way it is. If people didn't buy it or kicked up a stink about it and didn't support it, then they'd have to change their ways.

 

I'd love to say that was true because basics of supply and demand come into play but this isn't utopia.

 

It won't happen so why harp on it. They have been releasing MMOs at this level (or less) of completion for 15 years and so far this game has the highest initial subs of any game ever made. It's not a battle worth fighting

[Darkercrab]

Comparing cars to computers is hardly win, and Here....since I have to mention it again

 

Burning Crusade: 2-3 hour ques

 

Rift: 1-3 hour ques

 

Wrath: more ques

 

Cata: Oh GODS the ques

 

Welcome to an MMO, im sorry but theyve already addressed it, its on the front page. Kicking the dead horse does little more than make ones shoe stink.

[Darkercrab]

Most of what you say I agree with.

 

However for correctness RIFT at release had 2 lvls of heroics, the raid rifts which were completely do-able for the most part, and a 20 man raid.

The only problem with the raid was that for the first few weeks to a month or so it was bugged and too easy.

 

Rift was also released with a system that let you have 4 "specs" and switch between them at any time as long as you weren't in combat and could stand still for the 2 second cast.

 

 

As said I mostly agree with what you say and all my complaints are quite small. However in this day and age its not really accptable to not include stuff that other games have. Just coz they didn't have it when they were released is no real excuse, they have now, so should you.

 

Also some of the things missing from the game are extremely basic fundamental things that make me wonder *** they were doing with all their time. No autostacking for you bank or inventory for example. its not gamebreaking, just a little annoying but its a basic thing that should have been in.

 

Another feature that should have been in was a customiseable UI. Warhammer, Aion, and RIFT all had one at launch, any thing new released now pretty much HAS to have one coz we're used to it, we expect it.

 

I love the game atm and can see myself playing for quite awhile, even if my complaints go unanswered. I just really hope they fix/polish/improve/add the many small basic things we've come to experct quickly as the game would be greatly improved by it.

 

Again, Most of issues are minor at worst, yet people seem to believe it to be the sign of a Mass exodus, that the game somehow blows chunks.

 

Yes the UI Is prolly my largest gripe to, but common sense says thats going to be fixed up proper, heck Sith marauders need it given all the keybinds they stack up.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Darkercrab

[Cameirus]

What's with these idiots comparing cars to computer programs?

 

To answer your statement, dolt, I'll explain that cars have been around for 100 years, and yet every single year, there are dozens of recalls and malfunctions. Just because something has existed for a long time doesn't mean that perfection is guaranteed.

 

And you can expect all you want, but the reality is that nothing is perfect. WoW has been around for over 7 years now and there are still problems that people gripe about. Heck, every time they've released a new dungeon, raid, BG, zone, or they change class abilities or whatever... you get a slew of complaints about bugs and things that are broken. Don't believe me? Check the forums, it's lousy with complaints!

 

Have patience and enjoy what's given to you, instead of whining about what's not there yet.

 

Nice, constructive post, esp the insults, that really makes you look mature.....

 

 

But yes, my point exactly thank you.

 

In no other product would consumers accept such a poor quality at release, there would be recalls.

 

tell me how many new cars will sell without power steering? or a music system, or air conditioning for that matter? please.

 

 

As for cars and computer games, its called an analogy

[LogunOne]

It’s sad to see the features that this game brought to the MMO space lost on so many.

 

I’m not grinding, I’m not camping, I’m not crashing every 5 five minutes, falling through the world or blue screening.

 

I think most of you complaining must have never been part of a MMO launch before ….LOL

 

This game has to be breaking all MMO records on the amount of players being filtered into the game in the last 5 days, man I was expecting a disaster with servers crashing left and right but I think they’ve done a great job.

 

If you’re complaining about queues, know this there a necessary evil. Peoples play times greatly change after the first few weeks. If they opened enough servers to completely eliminate queues by the third week the servers would look empty.

 

Relax have a eggnog and know in about 2 weeks you’ll likely never see a Q again until the next expansion.

 

Happy Holidays

Edited December 25, 2011 by LogunOne

[Scar]

It's funny people would say "it's half finished"

 

Well it's been in development for 6 years. WoW has been in development for 12 years (6 of those concurrent with TOR so they shared the same access to the same technology). So yeah, maybe in that perspective, it is half finished.

 

Expecting it to have all the amenities isn't like the car analogy at all. All cars spend the same amount to time on the assembly line. So that's not an apt analogy at all.

 

Have a house built. Have one built in 6 months, and the other in 12, and come away expecting the same things in each house. You'll walk away disappointed there too.

[Deadxero]

Short answer: when MMO's turned into 3D facebook games and went main-stream.

[Darkercrab]

Nice, constructive post, esp the insults, that really makes you look mature.....

 

 

But yes, my point exactly thank you.

 

In no other product would consumers accept such a poor quality at release, there would be recalls.

 

tell me how many new cars will sell without power steering? or a music system, or air conditioning for that matter? please.

 

 

As for cars and computer games, its called an analogy

 

Im sorry its called a flawed Analogy. You cant match up a computer game, coding etc with a car. You can't do that kind of idea justice and get a decent debate out of it.

[Seth_Blackmoore]

This is my first post on the official forums EVER!! and honestly probably my last but....

 

I just wanted to say to the OP..... I LOVE YOU!!! Why do all game forums turn into such whiny little whine whine whine whine fests? To all the Nay Sayers..... I LOVE THIS GAME!!!! And Bioware did an amazing job with it so far!! I would use some expletives to make my point more profound but there is not really a reason.

 

 

Thanks Bioware!!!

[Cameirus]

Comparing cars to computers is hardly win, and Here....since I have to mention it again

 

Burning Crusade: 2-3 hour ques

 

Rift: 1-3 hour ques

 

Wrath: more ques

 

Cata: Oh GODS the ques

 

Welcome to an MMO, im sorry but theyve already addressed it, its on the front page. Kicking the dead horse does little more than make ones shoe stink.

 

Rift, short queues, servers opening every 20mins or so, no waves, no shuttign down acess for 18hours, they worked non-stop to get it right.

 

Swtor - days long ega queues and still server queues that took days to fix.....

 

Queues are not my big thing, but lets be accurate.

 

 

Also, your arguement is that a game should just be like its competition? And I should play it why? Isnt the idea to be better than the others?

[Bravotwentynine]

They only release it because people accept it the way it is. If people didn't buy it or kicked up a stink about it and didn't support it, then they'd have to change their ways.

 

Even then people will still complain.....They will find a way. As i stated you cant please them all.

 

Even if they cramed every thing at start up into the game. Every mod, GUI fix, no bugs, no que people will still b@#ch about thing becuse they feel they need to.

 

Your one point is true if you dont like it dont buy it. Another thing about that is dont come raining hell to others because it not to your liking and expect them to follow you.

[OkuKeelus]

When?

 

When we grew up and got jobs, kids and responsibilities other than trying to find the next kegger

[its_them]

I have never had to wait in a que for WOW on any of the expansions.

 

You must play on one of the most popular servers or something.

 

PS DarkCrab save yourself any further embarrassment and refrain from posting..

Edited December 25, 2011 by its_them

[Darkercrab]

Rift, short queues, servers opening every 20mins or so, no waves, no shuttign down acess for 18hours, they worked non-stop to get it right.

 

Swtor - days long ega queues and still server queues that took days to fix.....

 

Queues are not my big thing, but lets be accurate.

 

 

Also, your arguement is that a game should just be like its competition? And I should play it why? Isnt the idea to be better than the others?

 

When Rift first released...LIke this game has, the ques were immense on many servers. Im comparing release, not weeks down the road. Game was playable for the most part yes, but there were a lot of nasty ques.

 

As per being accurate, all im saying is that people act as if its the end of the world, as if the game is an SNES cartridge and cant be fixed up with patches, thats all that annoys me.

 

Yes I want a better UI, Yes i want dual builds, but the game is playable, fun and accesable. To any mmo veteran that alone is amazing for a release. (age of conan etc, poor souls.

[Cancrizans]

Look.

 

Before WoW, a great success in the MMO market was 200k subs. WoW went and reached 13 million. What you call the traditional MMO community is -EXTREMELY- niche. All games that have tried to cater to it have crashed and burned, because there is no money there.

 

Yes, they all crashed and burned. That is why Ultima Online, the original Everquest and Asheron's Call, games like City of Heroes which still do live in-game community events, just to name a few, ARE STILL AROUND, some of them more than 10 years after launch.

 

In fact, the ones that HAVE crashed and burned are the ones who tried to rip a chunk off WOW's success and brought incomplete games to market, most of which followed a more "action-oriented" style in an attempt to appeal to a wider market.

 

There is plenty of room for the kind of MMO that appeals only to the traditional MMO player. While it may not get as huge as WoW in this day and age, I guarantee that a developer who isn't greedy could make a substantial profit by catering to this "niche" market.

[Vorodor]

Small example: if you tick the hide cover bar option it resets if you log out, change instance or go on a load screen....that got past testing did it?

 

Emphasis on small here. Coding takes a huge chunk of time even for seemingly minor fixes. How do you think the community would have reacted if the game had been pushed back so that you didn't have to re-hide the cover bar every time you logged back in or went through a loading screen.

 

As far as bugs go this one is miniscule. Is it annoying? Probably. Is it game breaking? Not even in the slightest. What it comes down to is that the devs are human and not code producing machines, and there are only so many hours in the day. Stuff gets prioritized and minor annoyances such as this get pushed back for more important fixes to go live. It'll get fixed, until then deal with it.