My issue with Shadow of Revan as a Dark Side Sith (Potential Spoilers)

[The_Anf]

Hello,

 

So I recently just finished SoR with my full Dark side Sith Juggernaut, but I have to say I'm unconvinced by the story. I mean my character has left a trail of bodies and bloodshed across the galaxy on his journey to become the Emperors Wrath, I even have explained his bloodlust in my head as if you meet the Wrath you do not survive to tell the story...as that increases the fear of me.

 

Then I get to SoR and I'm just fine to let Theron, Satele, etc just leave...my character would NEVER do that...NEVER...even if to defeat Revan I needed their help I would have tried to slay them afterwards, and Darth Marr for even agreeing to a truce.

 

On my Jedi Guardian (Full light) it makes total sense...and the story flows and fits nicely...but on a Dark Side Sith it is quite poor and disappointing.

 

My 2 cents.

[Excise]

Eh, I don't think the story will ever accommodate the "can kill anyone and everyone" path. There's always going to be characters that are unkillable for story reasons.

[The_Anf]

I don't mean I have to kill EVERYONE...I just mean I never let a Republic member escape...and it is 100% out of character (based on the options I had all game) to be in tandem with the Shans.

 

Also is this prior or after Fatal alliances (book) as Theron didn't seem at all upset that Satele is there or visa versa they never even spoke.

[Darth_Wicked]

I needed their help I would have tried to slay them afterwards, and Darth Marr for even agreeing to a truce.

 

Fairly sure your Wrath's ego is overinflated, in addition to being completely delusional and dumb.

 

The Emperor is out to consume all life in the galaxy, and it seeks to eliminate allies and potential allies? Did it miss the part where the Emperor will kill it regardless?

 

Typical Sith.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[The_Anf]

No it didn't miss it, but as my Sith has said like 3894589 times in the story "I have yet to meet a challenge I cannot conquer"

 

My Wrath would have attempted to defeat Satele full stop...if I could have succeeded is a different matter...I bested Malgus but he lost to Shan so it would have been a good duel.

 

My issue is that my character (again based on the way the story had gone for him up until SoR) would not play nice with that coalition. Nor would have allowed Satele to leave an continue war against the Empire.

 

Nor would Jaesa who is a sociopath DS

[Darth_Wicked]

No it didn't miss it, but as my Sith has said like 3894589 times in the story "I have yet to meet a challenge I cannot conquer"

 

My Wrath would have attempted to defeat Satele full stop...if I could have succeeded is a different matter...I bested Malgus but he lost to Shan so it would have been a good duel.

 

My issue is that my character (again based on the way the story had gone for him up until SoR) would not play nice with that coalition. Nor would have allowed Satele to leave an continue war against the Empire.

 

Nor would Jaesa who is a sociopath DS

 

Then, as inferred earlier, your Wrath is shortsighted to say the least.

 

Again, the Emperor roams the galaxy once more, hell-bent in consuming it -- one way or another. Both Republic and Empire need their strongest people trying to get a bead on his location, in addition to plot his eventual downfall.

 

Striking down Darth Marr and Satele would accomplish... what exactly?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Leaveshill]

No it didn't miss it, but as my Sith has said like 3894589 times in the story "I have yet to meet a challenge I cannot conquer"

 

My Wrath would have attempted to defeat Satele full stop...if I could have succeeded is a different matter...I bested Malgus but he lost to Shan so it would have been a good duel.

 

My issue is that my character (again based on the way the story had gone for him up until SoR) would not play nice with that coalition. Nor would have allowed Satele to leave an continue war against the Empire.

 

Nor would Jaesa who is a sociopath DS

 

Well. I actually believe the Wrath might be able to defeat Shan. Why not? She's not really that "all powerfu"l, didn't she even claim to be weaker now than "earlier"? Or , "Not as strong as I was" or something like that. And Malgus was more powerful now(before his death) than when he bested her, twice, so why should she be impossible to best? *She surivies because of her master blocking Malgus' strike at the first duel, at the second she's disarmed and is saved by a tropper ; clearly bested and her victory is due to the tropper saving her.

 

Sure, Marr would be another case. That'd lead to the Wrath's own death in a matter of weeks anyways, as he'd be against the entire Dark Council with minimal support. And Marr isn't likely to go down easy, it's a reason he's a Dark Council member,and has been for like 40-50 years.

 

And; The post doesn't say that OP wants to be like;

"Oh, you want to help me? **** and die!!!", it's more like he wants the possibility to murder or try to murder his former allies at the end, after Revan is defeated. I can understand that, even though I'd personally be more "Sith knigh-ish" and let them go.

 

Anyways ; I don't feel like all the stories are "perfect" for every character. How's the Wrath supposed to, let's say, suddenly go from an enforcer, feared around for his brutal murders, to a silent assassin for Makeb? Why's, let's say, Darth Nox supposed to lead the attack on Tython? That attack should of course be lead by Wrath, as he's superior in terms of being the "front man" in a war. Hands down, I loved to solo it with Solomode but I know that it'd make much, much more sense for Wrath to storm the Jedi temple.

And likewise, Makeb makes more sense as Nox as you're a "silent assassin" as well, and the massmurders you commit are of course lore-wise something a force-user would do much better than a force blind.

 

When the game is based upon "one story", then some players and even classes will feel a bit "cheated" in terms of the story. Sometimes the story is perfect for a tropper, sometimes for a force users, sometimes for a lightsided character and sometimes not. I understand the issue, but I think that it'll always remain this way as long as it's no class-stories. (Or barely any).

 

After all, it'll be ony main story. I never felt like it was my coup of tea as an Sith Sorcerer to lead the forces to war at Balmorra, but as a Warrior I feel like was almost a class quest. Likewise, on Tattooine I can't see anyone but the Inquisitor pursue the artifact, while I prefer to see the bounty hunter or agent on Nar Shaddaa. (Talking about the planet-story lines, not the class). Every "planetary story line" will have it's flaws, as it's made for many different people and only some will feel like it's natural. This expansions are likewise. I enjoyed both RotHC and SOR, even with their flaws, but I must say that class quests are obviously very superior as it's specialized for the class and it's limits/strenghts, and often give much more freedom as you're actually "the most relevant character". People like Marr, Satele etc are more relevant to the story than our main characters, and are therefore a bit annoying at times as you want to carve your own path. Which they refuse by being there.

 

It'd be so much better if the SOR questline was halfed, and made like the "Normal" planetary quests, but with an added class story which actually "means" something. The little quest was nice but it's not really anything to brag about, it was too little.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Leaveshill

[The_Anf]

1- I'm fairly confident my Sith would believe he can challenge the emperor...he is afterall an ego maniac. The Emperor was defeated by a lone Jedi...my Sith would believe that makes the emperor weak.

 

2- Striking down Marr and Satele would elavate his personal status even further perhaps even putting him in control of the Dark Council over Marr

 

It may be short sighted but that would fit the story of the dark side warrior as that whole story has been reactionary the Wrath has never plotted his own course.

[Leaveshill]

1- I'm fairly confident my Sith would believe he can challenge the emperor...he is afterall an ego maniac. The Emperor was defeated by a lone Jedi...my Sith would believe that makes the emperor weak.

 

2- Striking down Marr and Satele would elavate his personal status even further perhaps even putting him in control of the Dark Council over Marr

 

It may be short sighted but that would fit the story of the dark side warrior as that whole story has been reactionary the Wrath has never plotted his own course.

 

Striking down Satele - would gain a lot of respect amongst other Sith.

 

Striking down Marr would get the entire council on Wrath's back, and Wrath would die in a few weeks, at best. It need not be a "fair fight", but he'd die. All his allies, expect maybe Jaesa, would leave him, and he'd die. Nobody would in the Council would allow him any power, and his former allies would all turn against him. So it'd be a tragic ending for the Wrath, in truth.

[Darth_Wicked]

1- I'm fairly confident my Sith would believe he can challenge the emperor...he is afterall an ego maniac. The Emperor was defeated by a lone Jedi...my Sith would believe that makes the emperor weak.

 

That was his Voice; it is unclear if it housed his full power or not.

 

In addition, he was weakened at the time.

 

2- Striking down Marr and Satele would elavate his personal status even further perhaps even putting him in control of the Dark Council over Marr

 

NOT only it would incur the wrath of the Dark Council and the full might of the Empire, but would ALSO contribute for both factions to focus solely on you, together with the Emperor.

 

As I said, shortsighted.

 

It may be short sighted but that would fit the story of the dark side warrior as that whole story has been reactionary the Wrath has never plotted his own course.

 

Judging from the consequences, it would fit no story at all.

 

The Wrath has no power base or allies to carve its own path; that much is obvious. Killing Darth Marr would only make matters worse, not to mention he is probably the Wrath's strongest ally.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[The_Anf]

I concede that the Wrath would be dumb to try to kill Marr without cause but Satele and Theron it is remarkable that I didn't try.

 

I mean surely Marr wouldn't have stopped me if I attacked Satele, plus I have Jaesa, Lana (who it remains to be seen if she would have helped) and potentially Marr vs Grand Master Satele.

 

Ending her would have been a very big victory in the war (we are still at war are we not?) and perhaps if Marr did join in striking down Satele that would be the notch on his belt needed to declare himself the new emperor.

 

My point is teaming up and HONOURING the truce at the end is very un-darkside and completely against character for the Wrath (DS) Jaesa and probably Marr.

[Excise]

Ultimately this comes down to the same reason you can't kill (or try to kill) Keeper, or Watcher Two, or Suresh, or Lana Beniko, or Jakarro, or Garza, or Mandalore, or any other random NPC.

 

Going after Satele and Theron but failing? Ehhhh I could see some dudes going for it. Trying to kill Marr also? That's loony toons.

 

Not everyone can be killable.

[The_Anf]

Ultimately this comes down to the same reason you can't kill (or try to kill) Keeper, or Watcher Two, or Suresh, or Lana Beniko, or Jakarro, or Garza, or Mandalore, or any other random NPC.

 

Going after Satele and Theron but failing? Ehhhh I could see some dudes going for it. Trying to kill Marr also? That's loony toons.

 

Not everyone can be killable.

 

Obviously but the option to attempt is really what I wanted not that I think BW should have allowed me to succeed maybe one of those we have a brief skirmish and Marr stops it or Satele escapes etc etc. My issue is story wise it didn't fit with the rest of the DS sith warrior.

 

On my LS Guardian it is perfect and makes sense (well as much sense as Revan being split in two)

[The_Anf]

I also understand that it would cost far too much $$ to make full expansions with different stories for each class I just think because of the monster they have created (8 different main stories) each class should have one indivdual 1 min cutscene, so we don't get as shoehorned.

[Celise]

Hello,

 

So I recently just finished SoR with my full Dark side Sith Juggernaut, but I have to say I'm unconvinced by the story. I mean my character has left a trail of bodies and bloodshed across the galaxy on his journey to become the Emperors Wrath, I even have explained his bloodlust in my head as if you meet the Wrath you do not survive to tell the story...as that increases the fear of me.

 

Then I get to SoR and I'm just fine to let Theron, Satele, etc just leave...my character would NEVER do that...NEVER...even if to defeat Revan I needed their help I would have tried to slay them afterwards, and Darth Marr for even agreeing to a truce.

 

On my Jedi Guardian (Full light) it makes total sense...and the story flows and fits nicely...but on a Dark Side Sith it is quite poor and disappointing.

 

My 2 cents.

 

*shuttle lands in the spaceport dock and the door unfurls open, you and Vette walk out and are greeted by a slave, a frail elderly male* Conversation happens *suddenly the slave is cut down, you then make a witty remark about how long it took to get to Dromund Kaas in a shuttle after Vette mentions it* "wow, it didn't take you long to start the Dromund

Kass death toll." "It was a long shuttle ride." "i get it, you were going through withdrawl" *Vette and you walk over the dead slave to the elevator*

 

stuff like that is worth replaying the SW for, its got some really good humor to it.

[IchibanSaru]

I view my Dark SIde 5 Marauder's outlook at the end of SoR as one of pragmatism. She (my character) understood that she might need these allies again in the future for the still obvious threat the Emperor poses. It would be foolish to destroy tools when the job is unfinished. Revan was simply a prelude to a greater threat and my Marauder sees that. She knows the alliance will be needed again. She's biding her time.

[fovzwk]

Ah I see your DS warrior is a defender of the "brainless Gorilla thumps his chest and strikes at everything around him in blind rage" way of thinking. Delightful.

 

Sure go ahead an attack the leader of the Republic troops while their whole army still camps outside. I'm sure this will not escalate in an massive battle that will only lead to needless losses and possible complete loss for the empire. Seriously Yavin no longer holds much interest to any side and those troops will be better spent in another batlle over a planet that still matters.

[Ghisallo]

Then, as inferred earlier, your Wrath is shortsighted to say the least.

 

Again, the Emperor roams the galaxy once more, hell-bent in consuming it -- one way or another. Both Republic and Empire need their strongest people trying to get a bead on his location, in addition to plot his eventual downfall.

 

Striking down Darth Marr and Satele would accomplish... what exactly?

 

Not only that but have a question.... Just how long do you think a Single Sith who doesn't make a lot of allies and have a large support system (as a Dark Side Jug is) would survive if he was SO sociopathic (and suicidal) as to say "Okay Darth Marr...you are the Darth of the Sphere of Defense of the Empire but I think your decision is crap so I am gonna chop your head off. Have at thee!!!!"

 

This kinda mind set wouldn't have seen the Jug make it to Korriban in one piece.

[Ghisallo]

Ah I see your DS warrior is a defender of the "brainless Gorilla thumps his chest and strikes at everything around him in blind rage" way of thinking. Delightful.

 

Sure go ahead an attack the leader of the Republic troops while their whole army still camps outside. I'm sure this will not escalate in an massive battle that will only lead to needless losses and possible complete loss for the empire. Seriously Yavin no longer holds much interest to any side and those troops will be better spent in another batlle over a planet that still matters.

 

Wouldn't even be a risk of war...Marr would take it as a personal insult and stomp the offending warrior as an "imperial matter".

Edited February 4, 2015 by Ghisallo

[ColaWindstar]

I get what you're saying, OP.

 

I mean, no, we don't have to be able to win a fight, but just the option of trying to fit our characters' natures. It might even be nice to have a reminder of our characters not being gods and it could go down something like this:

 

1. Darkside option to take a potshot/kill attempt on the otherside

2. You're own side stops you and gives you a warning B@#$%smack

3. You have the option to yield, argue your case, or even make an attempt on your own side as "tratiors"

4. You get SUPER B@#$%smacked so hard, you are instantly defeated (ala what happens if you don't kneel to Darth Jadus in the AI storyline)

 

If they want to rub salt in your wounds, on revival, you're saddled with a long lasting debuff of some kind that is your mark of shame for being an overzealous idiot.

[jovianus]

My issue with SoR as a Sith Inquisitor is that at the end I couldn't mercilessly mock Revan for being an abject failure who had accomplished nothing but bringing about the very danger he claimed to be trying to prevent, and weakening the galaxy in the process.

 

Followed by binding his Force Ghost and making him watch as I slaughtered every last Revanite on Yavin and made them thank him before they died.

 

*cough*

 

Yeah, I'm just really tired of Revan.

[Ghisallo]

I get what you're saying, OP.

 

I mean, no, we don't have to be able to win a fight, but just the option of trying to fit our characters' natures. It might even be nice to have a reminder of our characters not being gods and it could go down something like this:

 

1. Darkside option to take a potshot/kill attempt on the otherside

2. You're own side stops you and gives you a warning B@#$%smack

3. You have the option to yield, argue your case, or even make an attempt on your own side as "tratiors"

4. You get SUPER B@#$%smacked so hard, you are instantly defeated (ala what happens if you don't kneel to Darth Jadus in the AI storyline)

 

If they want to rub salt in your wounds, on revival, you're saddled with a long lasting debuff of some kind that is your mark of shame for being an overzealous idiot.

 

I think the point is "Dark Side" and "suicidal brain damaged ape" are not synonyms. If that kind of completely idiotic action really was in your characters nature you never would have gotten this far, rather your body would have been dumped in a tomb on Korriban.

[Ghisallo]

My issue with SoR as a Sith Inquisitor is that at the end I couldn't mercilessly mock Revan for being an abject failure who had accomplished nothing but bringing about the very danger he claimed to be trying to prevent, and weakening the galaxy in the process.

 

Followed by binding his Force Ghost and making him watch as I slaughtered every last Revanite on Yavin and made them thank him before they died.

 

*cough*

 

Yeah, I'm just really tired of Revan.

 

Just think...he is now a fully integrated Force Ghost, so we are pretty much doomed to see him again /wrist.

[The_Anf]

My point isn't that I think my Wrath should have succeeded in killing the Shans (or Marr)

 

its just that it doesn't fit the nature of how the story up until that had been for him to play nice with republic leaders...the only other time in the story that I can recall at the end my Sith put him down.

 

It just didn't fit to not at least have a dialogue or some sort of attempt to end the republic leadership...

 

also the Wrath would 100% want to test himself against Satele

[Kyrrant]

Nah, it doesn't bug me that much.

 

Sure, a mad-dog type Sith might consider ambushing the Shan's once Revan's dead, but they might be smart enough to recognize that Marr's not going to help them, and might actually defend the Shan's, making it a bit lopsided a fight... and he might've been cowed a bit, feeling the Emperor's power and recognizing that they might need the Jedi's help to not get eaten by Vitaite.

 

Besides, one could argue that, if you WERE the sort of Sith that would do that, Lana Beniko would never have approached you to begin with. She doesn't seem the sort to ask for help from an unreliable and potentially destabilizing force, and she seems a really, really good judge of character.

 

Nah, what bugs me is Shae Vizla, and how we're not allowed to kill her in the Blood Hunt instance. Yeah, she shows up to help us against Revan, but leaving aside the many, many reasons a Republic char would want her dead/imprisoned, she did try to kill us by blowing our ship out of the sky as we approached, just looking for a friendly chat.

 

And then she sic'd her minions on us.

 

And then she had us kill some monsters for her amusement.

 

And then she threw MORE minions at us...

 

...and then we leave without even acknowledging that a lot of our chars might want to kill her?

 

Most of my chars, at that point, would either kill her, or demand she surrender herself for incarceration (...and then presumably would have to kill her because she doesn't seem the type to surrender).

 

I'm just saying, not even giving us the chance to TRY, and have her ingeniously escape, was a huuuuge problem for me.