The bad news about Mercs being underpowered in survivability...

[Floplag]

is that its going to drive all of us that love the BH class to play PTs...

I'm not sure the current FOTM crowd wants that...you guys might not want to make it so obvious how weak we are and help gets Mercs some improvements

Just sayin... lol

[sithBracer]

So would you be willing to give up electronet, have your burst toned down by about 1/3 and make all your instants casts for that survivability?

[Taiketo]

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

[Master-Nala]

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

 

It's confounding to me. It's like the Merc players on this board have absolutely convinced themselves that Mercs are inferior in every way. Facts, reason, it just doesn't sink it.

 

This class needs a small survivability buff and it will be good.

[KainrycKarr]

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

 

 

Parses =/= pvp. Mercs are easily locked down with zero to do about it. Sorcs do just as much damage, with far more survivability.

[Taiketo]

Sorcs don't hit 14k demolition rounds or 12k railshots.

 

If you're perfectly min-maxed for power surge you MIGHT hit 10k with chain lightning on equal expertise players. Unlikely, though.

[Floplag]

So would you be willing to give up electronet, have your burst toned down by about 1/3 and make all your instants casts for that survivability?

 

Why should i? did any other class give up anything for theirs?

i mean this might make sense if we were head and shoulders, or to use your term 1/3 higher than others, but the facts are that we are not.

i can do higher burst on my PT or sniper than i can my merc... i dont play the current crop of fotm sorcs and sins but ive seen them do as much damage or more as well so... why should i give up anything to live as long?

Now IF IF IF giving us that results in those things, then yes, i would be willing to accept some measure of nerf.

 

i dont want to be godmode, i dont want to be fotm, i just want to not get globaled constantly, lol

[Floplag]

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

 

and how does that damage parse, assuming it were true, translate into anything when you die in 3 seconds?

[Floplag]

Parses =/= pvp. Mercs are easily locked down with zero to do about it. Sorcs do just as much damage, with far more survivability.

 

This. The rest is window dressing.

[foxmob]

ok. the op is overly dramatic and thinks that mercs are waaay worse than every other class in every way. so on and so forth. I think we can agree to treat most of his stuff as white noise, but this...

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

 

every time I hear someone cite parse numbers as a rationale for pvp viability, I look at their post and just laugh.

 

seriously man. c'mmon. dps isn't an issue. survivability is a HUGE issue. weakest self and team heals of any dps heal class. no escapes or dcds that can force focus swaps (which, again, both other healing classes have...even in dps spec). and sorcs can melt you in 2-4 gcds, as quick or quicker than a merc, but they still have their recourse to barrier and h2f. snipers....not so much.

 

I stated before that ranged should be predominately casters. they should do more dmg per attack, but they have to be mroe susceptible to interrupts. iunno. BW went the opposite way on this one. they made ranged much more mobile and gave them a lot more "cannot be interrupted" perks.

 

electro net stays. it's a 1-trick pony, and half the classes that get netted can break it and recover anyway. (troll ops) but it does often deter them from attacking for a while.

 

• the AC needs a legit dcd that they can rely on just like every other class (aside from snipers and PTs) has
  
• the dps AC should at the very least be able to spam their cast heal (which still cost resources). or if you wanna be a douche about it, don't let sorcs and ops cast heal more than once every 15s. game-breaking? no. just an obvious iniquity and QoL issue.
  

[PBoba]

Sorcs don't hit 14k demolition rounds or 12k railshots.

 

If you're perfectly min-maxed for power surge you MIGHT hit 10k with chain lightning on equal expertise players. Unlikely, though.

 

You must have missed the bit about being "locked down".

 

When the melee opens on your door we got no bubble-stun and troll-run to safety. Much less anything like heal to full.

 

Stuff parses or crits on undergeared bads. The only number that matters is ttk in ranked. At that is measured in a few globals, in solo. Give them something that removes them from combat - I say stealth like force camo, charged by supercharge gas.

 

And what about the PT /HO? The wayb that sorcs and sins all have the same good sht? Even if tha made them OP (hah), it is merc's turn.

Edited January 29, 2015 by PBoba

[Gyronamics]

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

 

AHAHAHAHA

 

Try to confuse defenseless single target PVE dummy bashing with PVP more.

 

To do high damage as a merc you need to spec into Innovative Ordinance, stand still a lot and hard cast a very strict rotation.

 

Your target then needs to do the following things:

 

 

• Never use an ability that resists tech, if your DoTs get resisted you are immediately behind on resources and DPS
  
• Never use an ability that dodges ranged, if your Mag Shot or DoTs get dodged you are immediately behind on resources and DPS
  
• Never interrupt, control or LOS you, massive loss of DPS
  

 

Oh wait, is that not suitable for the RNG of PVP?

 

Shock Horror as PVE DPS is revealed to have no bearing on PVP DPS.

 

The highest damage potential in PVP is from the hugely buffed multitarget skills: Force Storm, Suppressive Fire, Dotspreading <- merc is NOT a good class for dotspreading.

 

Get your facts right, blatantly ignorant of merc play

Edited January 29, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Saikochoro]

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

 

Just gotta say that dummy parses are probably one of the worst arguments you can bring up in a PVP debate. If the enemy team just stood there and used no defenses or attacks whatsoever, then yeah mercs can achieve the best DPS, but how often does that happen? Never. PVP is not a dummy parse.

 

Mercs can burst harder than sorcs, but they are nowhere near as good as sorcs. Lightning has some decent burst, but it has much better tools than mercs to be able to do damage. Mercs might get a few attacks off, but then they will be shut down, stunned, and focused to death and they can't do anything about it.

 

Come up with a better excuse than a dummy parse. That has got to be one of the lamest arguments I ever read in PVP threads.

[Taiketo]

I'm not saying mercs are fine. But they're not anything close to as bad off as marauders.

 

They have a lot of damage potential, 100% immunity to dots (at least commandos), and electro net. Yes, they can be cc'd and globaled, but the same can be said for every class. Even sorcs after barrier has been spent.

 

Electro net is a ridicously powerful ability. Electro netting a melee attacker when he's out of melee range is a free kill for the merc.

 

Yes, sorcs are better. Way better. Sorcs are crazy good at the moment. Mercs need buffs, for sure. But they don't need sorc survivability, not when they have way more burst potential. They shouldn't have their cake and eat it too.

[Master-Nala]

Mercs can burst harder than sorcs, but they are nowhere near as good as sorcs. Lightning has some decent burst, but it has much better tools than mercs to be able to do damage. Mercs might get a few attacks off, but then they will be shut down, stunned, and focused to death and they can't do anything about it.

 

What I find frustrating is not the hyperbole that gets used in these arguments. Mercs have some serious burst and like all ranged if left alone to freecast they are awesome. They have decent kiting tools as well.

 

The main problem is being focused in ranked. I am 100% with everyone that they need a buff here, but they do have tools to protect themselves. They just need improvement.

[Nekrall]

It's confounding to me. It's like the Merc players on this board have absolutely convinced themselves that Mercs are inferior in every way. Facts, reason, it just doesn't sink it.

 

This class needs a small survivability buff and it will be good.

 

It's their desire to blame everything else for their failures. Best part, they don't even introduce changes.

 

Most of these threads consist of "bioware, I'm losing games on x class, fix it".

 

Identify the problem, present a solution or multiple solutions. If not, ****.

[Mclyde]

So if yu wn't better survivability, then your burst should be exponentially decreased.

The problems are not marauders or Merc... the problems are Hatred sin and PT that combine extremely high burst and high survavibility. If every class get high damage + survivability... so what ? Give a 50% healing bonus for healer.

Yes Merc, for now, have to be used by very skilled player, but we can't afford to bring them at the same level of the others or it will become completely insane in the battlefield.

 

Fortunately there are Merc, Mara, operatives, and Shi-choo users, to have a chance to perform something in this game without a tank and 2 healer focusing on your *** (as attractiv as it could be)

 

Seriously maan... i just get 14K from a demolition charge 10 min ago in huttball. My best healing power is about 12K ! (every 30 sec max) Just die quickly with your demolishing sh***

What the **** with the damages since 3.0...

[Gyronamics]

Yeah well it's total balls toasted on a stick to say that merc has unreasonable damage in PVP.

 

When you play Innovative Ordinance it cannot be overstated that you CANNOT use abilities at random, CANNOT get mucked about and CANNOT get your limited resources wasted and still do good damage.

 

PVE is scripted, Dummies are defenceless, PVP says hi.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Nekrall]

Yeah well it's total balls toasted on a stick to say that merc has unreasonable damage in PVP.

 

When you play Innovative Ordinance it cannot be overstated that you CANNOT use abilities at random, CANNOT get mucked about and CANNOT get your limited resources wasted and still do good damage.

 

PVE is scripted, Dummies are defenceless, PVP says hi.

 

When you play any ranged class it cannot be overstated that you CANNOT use abilities at random, CANNOT get mucked about and CANNOT get your limited resources wasted and still do good damage.

 

Hurrrr

 

Durrrr

Edited January 29, 2015 by Nekrall

[Gyronamics]

Durrrr

 

When the comparison is with PVE damage which is entirely strict rotation then Durrrr it makes sense to underline and repeat why it is not the case in PVP.

 

Play merc and sorc then tell me sorc has resource issues kthx.

 

Hurrr

Edited January 29, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Natharon]

So you threaten to go pt as a way to blackmail bioware into buffing merc? LOL

[TUXs]

seriously man. c'mmon. dps isn't an issue. survivability is a HUGE issue. weakest self and team heals of any dps heal class. no escapes or dcds that can force focus swaps (which, again, both other healing classes have...even in dps spec). and sorcs can melt you in 2-4 gcds, as quick or quicker than a merc, but they still have their recourse to barrier and h2f. snipers....not so much.

The part I marked in yellow is where I think 99% of our issue is and I think you spelled it out perfectly.

[Nekrall]

When the comparison is with PVE damage which is entirely strict rotation then Durrrr it makes sense to underline and repeat why it is not the case in PVP.

 

Play merc and sorc then tell me sorc has resource issues kthx.

 

Hurrr

 

Play a ranked game before you complain on the forums.

 

Damage potential matters because if mercs can effectively pull those numbers without ways to shut them down you will see them become overtuned.

 

Mercs are currently the glass cannon ranged. I'm still waiting for any one of you merc players with iqs of room temperature to propose a fix instead of just moaning.

 

Durrrr

Edited January 29, 2015 by Nekrall

[Lattervane]

When the comparison is with PVE damage which is entirely strict rotation then Durrrr it makes sense to underline and repeat why it is not the case in PVP.

 

Play merc and sorc then tell me sorc has resource issues kthx.

 

Hurrr

 

You're an idiot if you think that Sorcs have the same resource issues as Mercs. Sorcs can cast virtually all day with no chance they are every going to run out of force. Mercs/Commandos on the other hand can easily reach 100 heat or 0 ammo if they are not careful on their rotation.

 

Sorcs .. spam forcestorm endlessly and have seemingly infinite resource to do it.

[BigDumbViking]

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

 

I've been wondering for a while now why in all the QQ on the forums about PT's, Assassins, and Sorcs... have there been no QQ's about Merc's.... I think their survivability is much better now than it has been in the past, and both Pyro and Arsenal are in very good places damage wise in wz's. The problem is that the FOTM crowed just hasn't jumped on the bandwagon yet.