Action For The Ravager's Exploit

[Max_Killjoy]

As for those mentioning the punishments you outline yes there were a few of those but I thought those of us at least attempting to partake in meaningful debate on the issue managed to ignore them as much as many tried to ignore people running around calling everyone witch hunters who were just as bad really.

 

Your mistake (or deliberate device) there is to think that those of us using the term "witch hunter" were referring to everyone.

 

It was specifically used in reference to those (and there were a lot of those) who were:

 

• Falling back on a false dichotomy where the only choices were "angered by the exploit and in favor of punishment" and "one of the exploiters", so that anyone who so much as questioned the outrage or the types and extent of punishment, was accused of being "one of the cheaters", either as a rhetorical device or in genuine outrage.
  
• Stating that it was OK for the innocent to be caught up in the net as long as the "guilty" were caught
  
• Comparing anything else than full support for draconian punishment to defending heinous real-life criminal acts such as grand theft, murder, or rape
  
• Making statements that amount to saying that anyone who speaks up in defense of the accused must also be guilty, or are just as bad as the guilty
  
• Presuming guilt unless there was proof of innocence
  
• The like, and etc.
  

 

Perhaps after numerous times of being implied I was a witch hunter I implied you sure did seem to enjoy defending the guilty and may have been one of the guilty I did go as far as to apologise to you if that were the case and you were innocent but of course you kept going with it regardless of how rational other point of view were.

 

Regardless of how you might wish to remember the course of events, I specifically called you witch-hunter only after you made that accusation. Before that moment, you assumed I was lumping you in with those people.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[lexasaniaalex]

I didnt use that exploit or any others. But that..You didnt do anything with players who used it for about 3 years and now you decided to do it cause some bunch of crying barby girl players(your main sort of players right now) cry and cry and cry here at forums. You did it with this exploit cause of them. You did it with slot machine cause of them. You did it with many hard content, with pvp balance and other thing.

That useless sort of players that dont need anything apart from new CM crap. And you listen only them. Really?

 

Im a founder and was a subcriber almoust all day since that SWTOR launched. I have a Collection edition and i bought CC packs not a single time. But im unsubed and SWTOR is finally deleted from my PC. You are lazy devs that give your community unprepared content, boring conent at very little size at all last year. That SoR addon sucks like all content that you released at the last year(2014).

 

Its your fault that SWTOR had that exploit so maybe you will dismis who respond for that? Why only players? Its cause you laziness and that dumb forum community. And now i see so many "oh, thanks Eric"/" oh, I even didnt expect such arrangements - cool, ty guys! You really listen your communty" - oh lol.

ALL COMMUNITY TEAM including you Eric are most lazy asses! You dont communicate with players that ask you really important thing! You abandoned many cool blogs and you dont update any info at that site! YOU SUCK GUYS! You react only at stupid barby questions.

Ye, player that glad to such useless content like Stronghold and Guild ships deserve such poor trash game. You wasted so many resourcec for what? For place for new CM crap? Cause its all that you can do at Str and GSh. You should be ashamed. But you will not. You will continue feed your troll-forum-community. I really want good game at SW universe.

And i really want the same with SWGalaxy fate to SWTOR. Maybe someone esle can do something worthwhile but not such lazy devs that do nothing. SWTOR has very little players like now. I would even say very very very VERY little. And I guess that after that stupid step many people will leave SWTOR. So, good luck with couch potatoes community from that ugly forum. You(by you i mean SWTOR lazy devs and communty team) and such players deserve each other. But for how long that 'amazing' simbiosis will extend SWTOR's life?

Edited January 30, 2015 by lexasaniaalex

[Reno_Tarshil]

I didnt use that exploit or any others. But that..You didnt do anything with players who used it for about 3 years and now you decided to do it cause some bunch of crying barby girl players(your main sort of players right now) cry and cry and cry here at forums. You did it with this exploit cause of them. You did it with slot machine cause of them. You did it with many hard content, with pvp balance and other thing. That useless sort of players that dont need anything apart from new CM crap. And you listen only them. Really? Im a founder and was a subcriber almoust all day since that SWTOR launched. I have a Collection edition and i bought CC packs not a single time. But im unsubed and SWTOR is finally deleted from my PC. You are lazy devs that give your community unprepared content, boring conent at very little size at all last year. That SoR addon sucks like all content that you released at the last year(2014). Its your fault that SWTOR had that exploit so maybe you will dismis people who respond for that? Why only players? Its cause you laziness and that dumb forum community. And now i see so many "oh, thanks Eric"/" oh, I even didnt expect such arrangements - cool, ty guys! You really listen your communty" - oh lol. ALL COMMUNITY TEAM including you Eric are most lazy asses! You dont communicate with players that ask you really important thing! You abandoned many cool blogs and you dont update any info at that site! YOU SUCK GUYS! You react only at stupid barby questions. Ye, player that glad to such useless content like Stronghold and Guild ships deserve such poor trash game. You wasted so many resourcec for what? For place for new CM crap? Cause its all that you can do at Str and GSh. You should be ashamed. But you will not. You will continue feed your troll-forum-community. I really want good game at SW universe. And i really want the same with SWGalaxy fate to SWTOR. Maybe someone esle can do something worthwhile but not such lazy devs that do nothing. SWTOR has very little players like now. I would even say very very very VERY little. And I guess that after that stupid step many people will leave SWTOR. So, good luck with couch potatoes community from that ugly forum. You(by you i mean SWTOR lazy devs and communty team) and such players deserve each other. But for how long that 'amazing' simbiosis will extend SWTOR's life?

 

Wall of Text crits you for 9001 damage (999 Absorbed).

[Max_Killjoy]

To the right of the letters on your keyboard, about half way down, there's a key that says ENTER or RETURN, assuming you're using fairly standard QWERTY keyboard.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

There were many threads on the forums where people said the payoff amounts had to be a bug, and so people using it were exploiting. There were enough people saying it that Musco felt he had to say "it's not an exploit". So my point is that "this mechanic is too good to be true" and "people are calling it an exploit" are NOT sufficient to be used as proof that someone knew they were doing something illegal and should be punished.

 

If it is too difficult let me spell it out for you. If you are going into an OP area, getting boss loot without fighting the boss, or being part of the OP...it is a exploit. Its not to difficult to figure out the difference.

[Pagy]

I do note a couple of other vocal minority on the pro exploit crowd missing from the discussion since Eric's announcement though, make your own assumptions based on that.

this quote pretty much says it all.

 

"pro exploit club"

then suggests they were exploiters.

 

classic

[Bachannal]

Way to make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Now that that's over, how about you stop wasting resources on this nonsense and direct them at identifying and fixing bugs in the game.

 

Seconded, thirded, fourthed, stamped and ratified.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Your mistake (or deliberate device) there is to think that those of us using the term "witch hunter" were referring to everyone.

 

It was specifically used in reference to those (and there were a lot of those) who were:

 

• Falling back on a false dichotomy where the only choices were "angered by the exploit and in favor of punishment" and "one of the exploiters", so that anyone who so much as questioned the outrage or the types and extent of punishment, was accused of being "one of the cheaters", either as a rhetorical device or in genuine outrage.
  
• Stating that it was OK for the innocent to be caught up in the net as long as the "guilty" were caught
  
• Comparing anything else than full support for draconian punishment to defending heinous real-life criminal acts such as grand theft, murder, or rape
  
• Making statements that amount to saying that anyone who speaks up in defense of the accused must also be guilty, or are just as bad as the guilty
  
• Presuming guilt unless there was proof of innocence
  
• The like, and etc.
  

 

Regardless of how you might wish to remember the course of events, I specifically called you witch-hunter only after you made that accusation. Before that moment, you assumed I was lumping you in with those people.

 

In your own memory of events where was the moderation in your own posts?

Why did you decide to repeatedly talk of a minority of people in favour of those sorts of punishments as though they were the majority?

Where were all your sensible suggestions on how to proceed if everyone else was so out of line?

Why did you bother reading and replying to all that content if it offended you so much? It certainly wasn't in defence of any one since all you really did was attack other people's view and throw fuel on the fire.

[Bachannal]

Hacking?! Calm down there soldier...nobody had to hack anything. If my cable company starts showing free HBO and does nothing to prevent me from watching it free for a month, I'll be damned if I'll pay them a month down the road for it. Nobody hacked this.

 

Exactly. If the cable company accidentally leaves 25 channels on for me that are premium, they can't come back and say "well you CHOSE to watch them, so now you owe us."

 

No. It's not my job as a PAYING CUSTOMER to check your code, to make sure you don't release buggy software, or to ensure you didn't leave an "exploit" open. (but let's call it what it was...a BUG, not an exploit)

 

I personally don't care, because I didn't do anything ban-worthy - but Bioware, this was YOUR FAULT from the get go, and it since you caused the mess, you should have fixed it correctly, rather than letting it fester and allow for this scenario to play out.

 

Try doing your jobs properly for once next time.

[Frybert]

 

I didnt use that exploit or any others. But that..You didnt do anything with players who used it for about 3 years and now you decided to do it cause some bunch of crying barby girl players(your main sort of players right now) cry and cry and cry here at forums. You did it with this exploit cause of them. You did it with slot machine cause of them. You did it with many hard content, with pvp balance and other thing. That useless sort of players that dont need anything apart from new CM crap. And you listen only them. Really? Im a founder and was a subcriber almoust all day since that SWTOR launched. I have a Collection edition and i bought CC packs not a single time. But im unsubed and SWTOR is finally deleted from my PC. You are lazy devs that give your community unprepared content, boring conent at very little size at all last year. That SoR addon sucks like all content that you released at the last year(2014). Its your fault that SWTOR had that exploit so maybe you will dismis people who respond for that? Why only players? Its cause you laziness and that dumb forum community. And now i see so many "oh, thanks Eric"/" oh, I even didnt expect such arrangements - cool, ty guys! You really listen your communty" - oh lol. ALL COMMUNITY TEAM including you Eric are most lazy asses! You dont communicate with players that ask you really important thing! You abandoned many cool blogs and you dont update any info at that site! YOU SUCK GUYS! You react only at stupid barby questions. Ye, player that glad to such useless content like Stronghold and Guild ships deserve such poor trash game. You wasted so many resourcec for what? For place for new CM crap? Cause its all that you can do at Str and GSh. You should be ashamed. But you will not. You will continue feed your troll-forum-community. I really want good game at SW universe. And i really want the same with SWGalaxy fate to SWTOR. Maybe someone esle can do something worthwhile but not such lazy devs that do nothing. SWTOR has very little players like now. I would even say very very very VERY little. And I guess that after that stupid step many people will leave SWTOR. So, good luck with couch potatoes community from that ugly forum. You(by you i mean SWTOR lazy devs and communty team) and such players deserve each other. But for how long that 'amazing' simbiosis will extend SWTOR's life?

 

 

 

 

Tab and Enter are your friends.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

this quote pretty much says it all.

 

"pro exploit club"

then suggests they were exploiters.

 

classic

 

*shrug* Couldn't really find a better term for the likes of you other than troll. You are and were probably worse than max because even when questioned on if all that happened was the removal of any illegally gained gear you didn't even want to see that occur.

How does that not make you part of the pro exploit club ( pro being in favour of, not being professional at doing it )? It's not even a punishment, just a return to the status quo if possible.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Exactly. If the cable company accidentally leaves 25 channels on for me that are premium, they can't come back and say "well you CHOSE to watch them, so now you owe us."

 

No. It's not my job as a PAYING CUSTOMER to check your code, to make sure you don't release buggy software, or to ensure you didn't leave an "exploit" open. (but let's call it what it was...a BUG, not an exploit)

 

I personally don't care, because I didn't do anything ban-worthy - but Bioware, this was YOUR FAULT from the get go, and it since you caused the mess, you should have fixed it correctly, rather than letting it fester and allow for this scenario to play out.

 

Try doing your jobs properly for once next time.

 

They could decide to cut your service and not give you cable again though ... just saying.

[LordArtemis]

The sanctions seem to run the gambit. At least from what I have read...it is coming from folks that can't post here mostly it seems.

 

Hard to say if what they are saying is accurate, but it looks like it is still ongoing. Looks like a good portion of folks are affected, including a few well known forum members.

 

Obviously I can't name specifics, names, or the source of the information.....but I expect most can figure out the latter.

[Ichikai]

Permanent suspension hurts everyone. It will ultimately resort in less players which is not good for BW, the exploiters and the game's population.

Especially considering it is partially BW's fault for letting it go on this long, and for not taking action in the past concerning well-known exploits.

 

I would've gone for public shaming for those.

 

Oh well.

[Max_Killjoy]

this quote pretty much says it all.

 

"pro exploit club"

then suggests they were exploiters.

 

classic

 

Notice that it's not "anti-draconian", or "anti-overreaction" or even "anti-punishment"?

 

No, it's "pro-exploit", which just continues the nonsensical false dichotomy that you're either pro-punishment, or you're somehow "the enemy" or "the opposite".

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Notice that it's not "anti-draconian", or "anti-overreaction" or even "anti-punishment"?

 

No, it's "pro-exploit", which just continues the nonsensical false dichotomy that you're either pro-punishment, or you're somehow "the enemy" or "the opposite".

 

Except yet again, as you've done a few times in other threads and been called on it and ignored addressing the fact you were called on it, you are putting words in other peoples mouths.

 

"Pro exploit club" != anyone that is not pro-punishment is the enemy. However if you also think that not even removing the gear that people CHEATED ( Eric used this word so now so can we with the utmost certainty that it's correct in the eyes of Bioware who, as many have said, are the only point of view/opinion that matters ) to get really does make you "pro exploit" in that if you want people to keep the gear they got you are in favour of them exploiting. I don't see any other way to interpret this personally.

Do you have any logic or facts to refute this or are you just going back to your old, tired witch hunter routine again?

[lexasaniaalex]

Wall of Text crits you for 9001 damage (999 Absorbed).

 

 

I edited it special for you and the same trolls that was told at my post. Enjoy.

[Pagy]

You are and were probably worse than max because even when questioned on if all that happened was the removal of any illegally gained gear you didn't even want to see that occur.

i don't think that's what i said, but makes no difference because i still agree there's no point. i said if gear was taken and i was guilty that *I* would quit.

i never said bw doesnt have the right, i never said other people should too. i can only speak for myself and what i would have done.

any time someone posts something you just take it to the extreme it's like you don't comprehend the words you are reading.

also, "illegally"? cripes dude.

my indifference about what other people have in the way of pve gear comes from the fact it doesnt matter to me. at all. its doesnt affect me. at all.

How does that not make you part of the pro exploit club ( pro being in favour of, not being professional at doing it )? It's not even a punishment, just a return to the status quo if possible.

this is exactly what he was talking about. its always so adversarial and black vs white with you.

because i'm opposed to stern punishments because i value following precedents set by bw in the past, that means all of a sudden i'm "pro exploit" ?

 

this is a silly tactic you are using. is someone that opposes capital punishment "pro murder" ?

I don't see any other way to interpret this personally.

you can start by reading the words i actually use.

you are in favour of them exploiting.

^ for example, i never said this. this is a product of your wild imagination and wild assumptions.

 

watch, let's perform an experiment.

i dont think gear should be removed because i really dont care and is a waste of bw resources.

i think people should not have exploited.

 

ok go. i'm excited to see you twist this.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Pagy

[ElQuesoGrande]

Quick question: Do you guys condone having 4-5 different spammers selling credits on gen chat every single day? Just a thought

[Nickious]

The sanctions seem to run the gambit. At least from what I have read...it is coming from folks that can't post here mostly it seems.

 

Hard to say if what they are saying is accurate, but it looks like it is still ongoing. Looks like a good portion of folks are affected, including a few well known forum members.

 

Obviously I can't name specifics, names, or the source of the information.....but I expect most can figure out the latter.

 

Would care to discuss such suspicions within a PM? Color me curious.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Nickious

[Max_Killjoy]

watch, let's perform an experiment.

i dont think gear should be removed because i really dont care and is a waste of bw resources.

i think people should not have exploited.

 

ok go. i'm excited to see you twist this.

 

That's pretty much my opinion -- people shouldn't have done it, but it also didn't do any harm, and BW's resources would have been far better spent just plugging the bug and moving on to work on other bugs instead of wasting 2 weeks playing junior detectives over some people being "naughty" and sneaking an extra pixel-cookie out of the infinity jar.

 

 

Quick question: Do you guys condone having 4-5 different spammers selling credits on gen chat every single day? Just a thought

 

IMO, gold spammers are probably more disruptive to an enjoyable game experience than the Ravagers ravagers.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[VincentBedok]

I love how this is being called an exploit...

 

My thoughts:

WEEK 1: Oh man, people are getting max level gear by cheating the system! I hope the Admins do something...

AFTER WEEK 1: Well, it's not patched, guess it's not an exploit, might as well get some gear.

 

I realize I haven't been banned yet & am effectively telling on myself. However, this needs to be said. I realize that online gaming is a lot different than computer security, but an exploit is an exploit, and should be handled appropriately by the developers/system admins. Which, in this situation, that obviously wasn't what happened.

 

Early last year I was at work and got an email about Heartbleed. The data center I worked at only had 2 Information Security positions, one being myself, and the other being on vacation. I was at work for nearly 3 straight days, working to fix, or at least mitigate, an exploit that most of the world didn't even know about at the time. During that time I had a batch script running across INIP analyzing each individual request, instantly banning any IP that failed the check. I rushed to integrate a temporary fix into each individual network tier across every data hall, hoping it would work until OpenSSL released a bugfix. I only had this job 2 months when that happened.

 

THAT IS HOW YOU HANDLE AN EXPLOIT. 4 weeks this Ravagers "Exploit" was available. I know it's only a game, but as IT guys, we have a job. From my perspective Bioware failed at handling this in every way possible.

[zalio]

I love how this is being called an exploit...

 

My thoughts:

WEEK 1: Oh man, people are getting max level gear by cheating the system! I hope the Admins do something...

AFTER WEEK 1: Well, it's not patched, guess it's not an exploit, might as well get some gear.

 

I realize I haven't been banned yet & am effectively telling on myself. However, this needs to be said. I realize that online gaming is a lot different than computer security, but an exploit is an exploit, and should be handled appropriately by the developers/system admins. Which, in this situation, that obviously wasn't what happened.

 

Early last year I was at work and got an email about Heartbleed. The data center I worked at only had 2 Information Security positions, one being myself, and the other being on vacation. I was at work for nearly 3 straight days, working to fix, or at least mitigate, an exploit that most of the world didn't even know about at the time. During that time I had a batch script running across INIP analyzing each individual request, instantly banning any IP that failed the check. I rushed to integrate a temporary fix into each individual network tier across every data hall, hoping it would work until OpenSSL released a bugfix. I only had this job 2 months when that happened.

 

THAT IS HOW YOU HANDLE AN EXPLOIT. 4 weeks this Ravagers "Exploit" was available. I know it's only a game, but as IT guys, we have a job. From my perspective Bioware failed at handling this in every way possible.

 

Exactly. When 3.0 was released, BW knew about what is now called the "Ravager's Exploit". They must have known that inevitably there will be some people who will take advantage of this exploit. Yet they did nothing about it. I'm not saying that those who participated in it should not be punished in some form, but this whole sorry mess could have been avoided. Of course it's not possible to release a game that is 100% bug free, but come on, the Ravager's Exploit was pointed out when it was on the PTS. Releasing a new expansion right before the end of the year during the holidays and not being able to do anything about it for weeks after was just poor planning.

 

Releasing an expansion where you know there are major bugs and exploits, and knowing that some people are going to participate in it, and know that eventually you may have to take the step of suspending/banning players for it, why even go there? Why not do something to prevent it from happening in the first place?

[Bachannal]

They could decide to cut your service and not give you cable again though ... just saying.

 

 

No they cannot, it's illegal for them to do anything of the sort if you're paying your bill. I've had it happen with Comcast, and they don't have a leg to stand on in terms of charging you if they do that. And they do it frequently in places like Apt. complexes where all of the cable nodes are all contained in a single box.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

my indifference about what other people have in the way of pve gear comes from the fact it doesnt matter to me. at all. its doesnt affect me. at all.

 

I hear a lot of this not caring business yet here you supposedly sticking up for the poor hard done by cheaters.

 

Either you do care or just enjoy a little bit of conflict. Either way, your choice.

 

this is exactly what he was talking about. its always so adversarial and black vs white with you.

because i'm opposed to stern punishments because i value following precedents set by bw in the past, that means all of a sudden i'm "pro exploit" ?

 

this is a silly tactic you are using. is someone that opposes capital punishment "pro murder" ?

 

Is it really so hard for you to answer such a simple question? How does it not make you part of the pro exploit club?

 

You weren't opposed to stern punishments, you've basically been opposed to any punishments and anyone that thinks there should be any form of punishments.

 

Add to this there have been plenty ( a majority more ) reasonable posters who've been truly against "excessive" punishments that I've had no problems with what so ever and even managed to have constructive discussions on the topic.

Not you though no. As adversarial as you think I am you are just as bad if not worse. You choose how you post and how you react and act to people the same as I do though I don't intentionally try and go around winding people up over and issue I supposedly don't care about as you do ( thus troll ).

 

you can start by reading the words i actually use.

 

Or you can stop being so obtuse and just answer the question.

 

i dont think gear should be removed because i really dont care and is a waste of bw resources.

i think people should not have exploited.

 

Imagine a world where you posted this nearly a month ago and went and did something else because you don't really care.

 

I find this "not caring" reasoning of yours to be the most humorous to date, whilst it might very well be true if you want to blatantly admit to being a troll.

 

I for one do care and thus will defend my point of view.