new to VG PvP tanking

[thedudeabidesman]

Hi folks, I have a few PvP related questions for the class....I'm not new to PvP or PvP tanking, just the VG.

 

Which augments do I want to stack? Shield? Absorb?

What will make up my main damage rotation? Any abilities to specifically avoid?

Do I use shoulder cannon on CD?

Any thoughts on right side tank gear, left side dps gear?

I'm level 52 and starting to think about 60: what should be my first purchases? Tank relics? Mh?

 

Posting in the class forums also

 

Thanks for you help

[Capt_Beers]

Hi folks, I have a few PvP related questions for the class....I'm not new to PvP or PvP tanking, just the VG.

 

Which augments do I want to stack? Shield? Absorb?

What will make up my main damage rotation? Any abilities to specifically avoid?

Do I use shoulder cannon on CD?

Any thoughts on right side tank gear, left side dps gear?

I'm level 52 and starting to think about 60: what should be my first purchases? Tank relics? Mh?

 

Posting in the class forums also

 

Thanks for you help

 

Don't know much about tanking but I'm pretty sure you want Fortitude augments.

[NikSunrider]

Don't know much about tanking but I'm pretty sure you want Fortitude augments.

 

You want WHAT?

 

Fortitude is Endurance. Endurance is bad for tanks. At least, stacking it is.

And yes, I have heard about Zorz, and no, I don't give two kriffs.

 

A tank, even in PvP, should have tank-stat stats. Having high endurance might mean being able "tank" (no pun intended) more damage in some circumstances, but overall, it's not worth it. I will not go into the math here, (because that's annying and makes me look like a freak), but consider this from a healer's perspective: What is easer to heal? A tank who lost 80% health in 3 hits, or a tank who mitiaged those 3 hits and is sitting at 95% health...that he can seelf-ehal with a medpac?

 

Shoulder Cannon in tank spec is a little weaker than in DPS, so I prefer to use it as a defensive cooldown (because of the heals). As a tank, your primary role is harrassment and guarding, not outdoing the Hatred Assassin on the other team.

 

I don't think vanguard has much abilities that you should avoid, per se, except maybe Explosive Round - for the energy cost, I mean, you can use it, just not constantly - and Full AUto, if mobility is an issue. Ion Pulse is pretty good, and of course HiB and SS proc your Energy Blast, which gives you shield!

 

Speaking of shield, I'd go with shield augments, because as a VG, you're mostly shielding attacks.

[Glower]

NikSunrider

 

Dude... read how the guard or PvP medpacks works in PvP. Tanks in PvP is a pure meat-bags for three years already! The bigger hp pool - the better tank. Well you need to optimize your stats (end ... shield ... abs ................................. def for PT tanks), but right after endurance.

[Bryanseven]

I play Jug tank in pvp and what was said about endurance is true, shield and absorb are valuable stats, but defense is nearly worthless in pvp and as a tank in PVP your primary duty is to guard swap, so endurance is where it is at. I try to pick enough power surge etc so you aren't hitting like a wet noodle because sometimes you yolo cue and you will be without a healer, so being able to contribute some damage is a big boost to the team.

[DomiSotto]

Hi, I play a conservative set-up, and I am a noob. Anyone gives you a better advice, take it.

 

Basically, I treat my VGT as a Tampax. Sturdy, Absorbent and Inconspicuous.

 

As such, I stack Shield/Absorb, and Fortitude Augments. Shield Amplification and Reactive Warding for the relics. I plan to have a single Defense piece or whatever keeps me at 10%. This set took me through Levels 10-60 in regs w/o a simple complaint from anyone. I was Augmenting in midbies from ~ L30 onward.

 

I do intend to buy the AimPower/Surge MH though. I also am going to purchase the second Left side set, in the DPS flavor and the second set of relics just to see if there is any improvement over what the tanky tanking set does.

 

I don't use Shoulder Cannon on CD, as frankly I want to save it for when I have to hit that guy, who is capping and I am stunned. I normally end up Guarding nodes, no matter what happens in the beginning.

 

I have the Utilities that improve my HtL (duh) and allow the Adrenaline Rush to be activated when CC'd. That ability to do something while stunned, and having lots of ways to get out of the roots and stuns, survive roots and stuns is one big difference between this guy and everything else I own.

 

Despite having the carbofreeze and AoE CC, I also pack seismic grenades and use them, because you never know when 2 stealth comes calling or when healer just needs to take a break from doing HPS.

 

I love the Riot Gas/Explosive Surge combo.

 

Other than that, when I get into any zone where there is just no potential for me to be guarding nodes... (yeah) I try to swap guard as much as possible, taunt and use AoE on CD on those lovely groups of Ranged DPS.

 

Oh, and I love bringing the Sorcerers, Marauders and Mercenaries into the thick of things from their hiding places.

Edited January 28, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Capote]

Tanking in PvP can be a bit different from PvE. Most of times it is actually better to get high endurance mods/enhancements and even augments due to the amount of non-mitigable damage that you receive. Note that the math applied for PvE does not take into account the PvP environment ("bursty"combat, direct damage, damage from the guarded player and so on), and so it can be deceiving.

 

The tank powertech can do a lot of damage if you make smart use of your firestorm. Basically you want to always watch for its proc plus keep using rocket punch (for shield), rail shot (shield too) and heat blast (absorb). Remember to also use flame burst and flame sweep for the debuff and procs. I wouldn't say there is a specific rotation, but rather a priority list based on the fight. Remember that as a powertech you need to "keep hitting to proc shield and keep shielding to proc hits".

 

The use of shoulder cannon depends on your build. If you use it for healing (not the best option for PvP, in my opinion) then it is pretty obvious when should you use it. If you want it for damage/procs then try to use it with "bursty" skills to pressure the enemy.

 

Also, please remember to keep guarding and switching guard ALL THE TIME. This is what separates good tanks from bad tanks.

 

USE YOUR CCs WISELY.

 

It is pretty common to use DPS gear in arenas as a tank nowadays. As a powertech you can do a lot of damage that way, but you also have to consider that you are the tank that depends the most on gear for tanking. I have seen tanks using full tanking gear, half-half or even full DPS gear (not the shield, obviously) pretty effectively. Try testing it for your taste. I prefer to go full tank or use just a few DPS pieces in certain situations.

 

First buy for a tank is the shield =P.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Capote

[Spor]

Defensive stats are almost useless once people get geared and are 60. You do not shield crits and most DPS specs (that will be doing the damage you need to mitigate) will autocrit from skills in their trees. This makes stacking shield useless in PvP...same with absorb since you are not shielding anything to get the benefit from extra absorb. In the same light, defense does not work against most attacks in pvp either. As a tank, your best bet is to go high endurance. It will make you seem way more tanky in pvp.

 

In addition, the medpacs, adrenaline rush and shoulder rockets (if you have the utility) heal a percentage of your max health, so the higher your health, the higher the benefit from them.

 

You are going to want to get the tank set bonuses and then probably swap out for damage mods later. The tank set bonuses are actually useful, it lowers your cooldowns on taunts, it adds some flat damage reduction after certain skills and will make your shield and riot gas last longer. The defensive stat mods are not as useful though.

 

As far as skills. Use storm when you can and then explosive surge for free. Get the utility that makes it slow people. Other than that, it is situational. Try to get yourself in crowds and use ion storm when you can, it can do some decent aoe damage, granted you are not going to burst anyone down with it.

 

Your roll is not to kill people, it is to prevent people from dying. Swap your guard around and taunt when you have it up (assuming the target is hitting someone that is not you). Guard swapping (healers have priority if they are getting hit) is the best way to make your presence known. Also keep in mind that Riot Gas on where there is a big fight helps everyone on your team since it will give any enemy in it a miss chance on their target.

 

Try to save your CCs to buy time for other people to escape pressure and survive, particularly healers. The aoe stun is great for this. Also, use harpoon to pull persistent people off of your healers, it buys them time to heal up and can really frustrate the other team some times.

 

People can correct me or add where I missed if wanted.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Spor

[LeglessChair]

my answers in green

Hi folks, I have a few PvP related questions for the class....I'm not new to PvP or PvP tanking, just the VG.

 

Which augments do I want to stack? Shield? Absorb?

fortitude

What will make up my main damage rotation? Any abilities to specifically avoid?

use (the VG version of) firestorm, rocket punch, heat blast and flamesweep/flameburst lots

Do I use shoulder cannon on CD?

no

Any thoughts on right side tank gear, left side dps gear?

depends on the fight. you want to be tanky enough to survive but be able to put out enough pressure to help overpower the enemy

I'm level 52 and starting to think about 60: what should be my first purchases? Tank relics? Mh?

the absorb relic is good, the other two tank relics are meh imo. I'd focus on getting the set bonus first

Posting in the class forums also

 

Thanks for you help

Edited January 28, 2015 by LeglessChair

[Capt_Beers]

You want WHAT?

 

Fortitude is Endurance. Endurance is bad for tanks. At least, stacking it is.

And yes, I have heard about Zorz, and no, I don't give two kriffs.

 

A tank, even in PvP, should have tank-stat stats. Having high endurance might mean being able "tank" (no pun intended) more damage in some circumstances, but overall, it's not worth it. I will not go into the math here, (because that's annying and makes me look like a freak), but consider this from a healer's perspective: What is easer to heal? A tank who lost 80% health in 3 hits, or a tank who mitiaged those 3 hits and is sitting at 95% health...that he can seelf-ehal with a medpac?

 

Shoulder Cannon in tank spec is a little weaker than in DPS, so I prefer to use it as a defensive cooldown (because of the heals). As a tank, your primary role is harrassment and guarding, not outdoing the Hatred Assassin on the other team.

 

I don't think vanguard has much abilities that you should avoid, per se, except maybe Explosive Round - for the energy cost, I mean, you can use it, just not constantly - and Full AUto, if mobility is an issue. Ion Pulse is pretty good, and of course HiB and SS proc your Energy Blast, which gives you shield!

 

Speaking of shield, I'd go with shield augments, because as a VG, you're mostly shielding attacks.

 

The reason tanks in PvP take Fortitude augs is because Endurance and Power have no DR. All the other tank stats do and you can get plenty of them on your gear. So having more HP is a better use of your stat budget. Also if you take the SC heal it scales of off your max HP, so more HP = more heals.

[teclado]

Also NPCs in PVE don't crit, players do. I believe crits ignore shield. So, at a certain point, having a ton of shield / absorb starts to not look so good versus other players. A vanguard dps cell burst can crit for 15k or more. Even with all the shield and absorb in the world, that 15k is still going to do 15k. Having a bigger health pool gives the healers more time to apply heals and save your bacon. Having a smaller health pool increases the chance that you can be burst down before the heals even know you are in trouble.

 

I'm no expert on tanking, but my instinct would be to go for 50k+ health, then whatever the appropriate mix of shield / absorb / def is based on this. Add in power / surge mods for more dps as desired.

Edited January 28, 2015 by teclado

[Nekrall]

Also NPCs in PVE don't crit, players do. I believe crits ignore shield. So, at a certain point, having a ton of shield / absorb starts to not look so good versus other players. A vanguard dps cell burst can crit for 15k or more. Even with all the shield and absorb in the world, that 15k is still going to do 15k. Having a bigger health pool gives the healers more time to apply heals and save your bacon. Having a smaller health pool increases the chance that you can be burst down before the heals even know you are in trouble.

 

I'm no expert on tanking, but my instinct would be to go for 50k+ health, then whatever the appropriate mix of shield / absorb / def is based on this. Add in power / surge mods for more dps as desired.

 

We have a winner!

 

Stacking shield/absorb on a pt is good, but not for augments. You will live longer with a higher hp pool, a lot longer. Mitigation works well when you are tunneled, but auto crits surpass this so it is just better to take the hp.

 

Also, a quick tip. Shield/absorb works for damage received through guard; whereas, defense rating has no effect. Gear accordingly, gear your toon to your strengths, which should be pretty obvious with a quick look at the tanking tree for PTs/VGs.

[thedudeabidesman]

Wow, it's interesting to see the different opinions and approaches.

 

Consensus seems to be...

get my set bonus

endurance augments

stick with tank gear for the most part

avoid defense stat

 

Thanks for all the input

[AxeDragoneth]

Wow, it's interesting to see the different opinions and approaches.

 

Consensus seems to be...

get my set bonus

endurance augments

stick with tank gear for the most part

avoid defense stat

 

Thanks for all the input

Be sure to read the VG/PT class thread you made, too. /toolazytorepost

[Pantokratorx]

I only have a lowbie Tank VG, but my approach is that I use dps gear with shield off-hand. This way I do decent dmg and can survive pretty long. If I have a healer I can jump into 3-4 people and wreak havoc, though I have to be mindful rotating my DCDs. Also when people see that you are a tank VG they tend to ignore you because they think you dont do much damage.... then BAMMM HIB in your face! Also I prefer the availability of charge and pull, I have a lot more fun on Hutball maps, thats why I play this instead of AP. Edited January 29, 2015 by Pantokratorx

[Morath]

I have a quick question. I started tanking and really like the change. On the augments question I realize that Hp is good and the % gain on heals etc is a factor, however the difference in endurance between power Aug and End Aug is about 20 per Aug. 13 x 20 is is 260 or 2600 HP. Seems to me that is about 1 hit in pvp. Not sure it is worth changing them all out for that. Am I missing something?

 

Thx.

[Zoom_VI]

Also NPCs in PVE don't crit, players do. I believe crits ignore shield. So, at a certain point, having a ton of shield / absorb starts to not look so good versus other players. A vanguard dps cell burst can crit for 15k or more. Even with all the shield and absorb in the world, that 15k is still going to do 15k. Having a bigger health pool gives the healers more time to apply heals and save your bacon. Having a smaller health pool increases the chance that you can be burst down before the heals even know you are in trouble.

 

To be fair a tank should never get hit for 15k ever, armor should see to that.

 

On a side note crit doesn't actually bypass shield. Crit and shield are rolled on the same RNG roll so that you can never have both occur at the same time.

 

for instances a attacker with 25% crit hitting a target with 30% shield, there will be a 30% chance of a shield result, a 25% chances of a crit and a 45% chance of neither.

 

What people mistake as a bypass is when crit+shield > 100 at which point shield rating gets pushed off. However this only really happens if the attacker's crit chance is 70% or more.