BuriDogshin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Edit: If someone could please post this transcription to reddit, I'd appreciate it. I BioWare might delete this thread. From the video on Duly's site, starting 20 minutes 45 seconds: The idea of the slot machine ... was always for you to get reputation ... old Cartel market reputation. ... When we implemented the slot machine, you may have noticed that is had a much greater value as indicated by the drops that came out of it, the Jawa scraps ... Those drop rates, when I made the initial post, everything I said in there I never meant to mislead anybody although a whole lot of people feel that way and that was not intentional. What was there was not a bug, those were the rates that we intended to release it with, which is did not consider it an exploit or anything like that. But players certainly raised a lot of concern about what effect that could have on the economy, so we knew we had to take a look at it, and that's simply what I said. I think what I may have not stated that was we could make drastic changes to it. But then we put, we didn't know that yet until we looked at the data. So we looked at the data , we spent a lot of time looking at it, and the players were 150 thousand percent correct, in that the effects of getting the java scraps at that high of a drop rate was very impactful to not only the economy, but also, as I said in my post, we found that players were simply neglecting crew skills ... I think most people can sympathize it was probably not the intent of the slot machine. So we knew that we had made a mistake. And as we came by how much the drop rate changed we made a pretty bad mistake. So we adjusted those rates to a place where we felt comfortable that it would not have a severe impact like it did. And I know that some people may not feel this way, but we felt it was really important that we didn't want to take too much value away from the slot machines, we were changing what the value is, so that's why we put an exclusive mount that you can only get from the slot machine as a part of it. I know, I know, some people will make the argument against it, that 'what we really wanted to use the slot machine for was gaining those crafting materials, grade 11 materials is what I was using it for,' but simply put it was never our intention, it was 100% our mistake and <inaudible> Short version, we looked at data, and verified 100% that we were in a very very bad place. I can tell you that talking to our guys in analytics, I know a lot of players will look at 'I used the Slot Machine a hundred times, here's what happened." Understand that what we're looking at, we're looking at it across what happens when a million uses of the slot machine have happened. Someone might say put 500 or now 750 credits into a slot machine and get a walker. I am sure if someone got a walker for 750 credits they'd say that's pretty good value there. Whereas on the flip side you might put a lot more credits in and not get as much, and that's just balance and how it does it. But what were seeing is where the balance is now, over many many many uses, a player will actually only come out a little bit behind. I welcome any corrections to the transcription. There is no question that many things he says are completely untrue, such as "a player will actually only come out a little bit behind." So, the things that are not provably untrue, probably cannot be trusted. Whether Musco is intentionally telling a lie, being misled by others at BioWare, or just stupid, you cannot trust what he says. Edited January 24, 2015 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Wow, he just completely ignored the severe reduction in the Certificate drop rate as well as the other Scavenger Scraps and the increased loss ratio. Does he really think that we're not going to notice those? Does he think that if they ignore it, we won't still be mad about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) As I said in the other thread, dissapointed? Yep. Suprised? Nope. Yay gloss jobs..... (clarification for the inevitible dispute, dissapointmet for gloss job regarding certs.) Bioware, your losing affection points [•••√•••••••••|••••••••••••] Edited January 24, 2015 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahaylaCora Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Eric Musco, Bioware's firewall. They are avoiding to talk about the actual Slot Machine performance. It is a stupid toy where prizes are unworthy for the money invested in coins, light years away of the "fun toy" they intended. I can't trust no more in this development team. I like your signature, OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) From the video on Duly's site, starting 20 minutes 45 seconds: I welcome any corrections to the transcription. There is no question that many things he says are completely untrue, such as "a player will actually only come out a little bit behind." So, the things that are not provably untrue, probably cannot be trusted. Whether Musco is intentionally telling a lie, being misled by others at BioWare, or just stupid, you cannot trust what he says. Obviously Musco doesn't read the forums anymore, otherwise he would have seen the new analysis of the slot machine by several people, some of them who originally complained about it, that all deem it completely worthless after you cap your rep out. A player comes out massively behind, and every single person doing a statistical analysis has shown it. Edit: i mean seriously, did he say you could win a walker with spending only 750 credits? I mean theoretically it's possible, but the average across the player base is something like 75 M, that means that someone might win one with 750 credits but someone else might win one with 150 M credits.. I'm just incredulous he could even think to say that, do they really believe we are that foolish? Who is he, Mr Powerball Ray Charles, all it takes is one dollar to play and you too could be a millionaire? Edited January 24, 2015 by Draqsko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 From the video on Duly's site, starting 20 minutes 45 seconds: I welcome any corrections to the transcription. There is no question that many things he says are completely untrue, such as "a player will actually only come out a little bit behind." So, the things that are not provably untrue, probably cannot be trusted. Whether Musco is intentionally telling a lie, being misled by others at BioWare, or just stupid, you cannot trust what he says. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Obviously Musco doesn't read the forums anymore, otherwise he would have seen the new analysis of the slot machine by several people, some of them who originally complained about it, that all deem it completely worthless after you cap your rep out. A player comes out massively behind, and every single person doing a statistical analysis has shown it. the 3 pages of the forums atm are either: 1) WAAAA SLOTS WAAAAH, RAWR, QUITSMASH RAAAAAAGE!!!111 or 2) Some incredibly lush, well worded and elaborated theory on fixing slots, which in the end becomes point N°1 anyways. not much to read. And yeah. Legend status rep for a couple million machine, sucks; better off buying crates in coins, or for even more millions, off the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastiaanZ Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well they are going to have to turn this change around anyway ... don't care if they say they won't... they will have too unless they want a very angry and furious playerbase at their hand. They outright LIED to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Well they are going to have to turn this change around anyway ... don't care if they say they won't... they will have too unless they want a very angry and furious playerbase at their hand. They outright LIED to us. /cue I've been playing since 1975 beta tests, this and that, gonna quit over the slots, blablabla Edited January 24, 2015 by Tachenko_Yuri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Whether Musco is intentionally telling a lie Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) /cue I've been playing since 1975 beta tests, this and that, gonna quit over the slots, blablabla This is just not just about the slot machine. Although this small pebble is causing a landslide of sorts. And unfortunately coming in and gloating or making fun of it, is only adding to the flames sir. Best thing to do is stop and wait for an official response. Because quite frankly it's all in their hands now regardless of what they(the devs) say. Edited January 24, 2015 by grombrinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvalonBunny Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I hope the devs make an official response sooner rather than later. The community has seen enough from other sources and it would be better seeing it on the SWTOR forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 This is just not just about the slot machine. Although this small pebble is causing a landslide of sorts. And unfortunately coming in and gloating or making fun of it, is only adding to the flames sir. Best thing to do is stop and wait for an official response. Because quite frankly it's all in their hands now regardless of what they(the devs) say. 6 millions for the slot that I donated single-handedly to my guild SH, along with another bought by another guild member for I'm guessing some other mills. Me, neither this other guild member, neither the rest of our guild have made a fuss ever since the drop rates have changed, or " nerfed ". don't see why everyone is eviscerating each other about. Just get out there, do you crew skill missions, like, you know, what's happened for the last 3 years of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I hope the devs make an official response sooner rather than later. They already did. If people don't like it, that's another matter altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 From the video on Duly's site, starting 20 minutes 45 seconds: I welcome any corrections to the transcription. There is no question that many things he says are completely untrue, such as "a player will actually only come out a little bit behind." So, the things that are not provably untrue, probably cannot be trusted. Whether Musco is intentionally telling a lie, being misled by others at BioWare, or just stupid, you cannot trust what he says. I can't decide on what makes BW look for stupid. How they put out the slot machine and simply had no clue as to how it was going to affect things or how they think now it will only put players a "little behind" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staavis_SC Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 He completely ignored the fact that making changes of this magnitude to a real money transaction item is tantamount to fraud. At the very least, it was a swindle plain and simple. At least we know where we stand with Bioware. Once they have our money, it's basically "Go screw yourselves, we'll change what we want and you'll just have to take it." Well...SCREW YOU Bioware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calypsissmexy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I can't decide on what makes BW look for stupid. How they put out the slot machine and simply had no clue as to how it was going to affect things or how they think now it will only put players a "little behind" But this is accurate. After we blow one stack of coins, we never use it again. We're left only a little behind in creds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Sorry ERIC - Disagree with you... NERF to JAWA stuff is fine.... crappy odds that should be doubled, but expected them to be nerfed as mentioned. CARTEL CERTIFICATES? No mention of them.. So... WHY are they nerfed to hell? I WILL NOT buy any future CM Packs for Slot Machines based on the current odds. Sorry... going to keep my money next time after getting screwed. I was all set to line them all up in a row on my strong hold and let friends use them, but not anymore. Waste of time and money at this point. Not upset about JAWA, but insulted about CERT's nerf and the CRAPPY mount that is not worth the time/effort. I'll just spend 100k on same looking mount via YAVIN 4 vendors. Why waste my time on crappy odds for same thing. IF the Mount looked like last seasons PVP mount, then it might be worth it... right now.. NO.. its a POS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Wow, he just completely ignored the severe reduction in the Certificate drop rate as well as the other Scavenger Scraps and the increased loss ratio. Does he really think that we're not going to notice those? Does he think that if they ignore it, we won't still be mad about it? reading that, it is obvious these guys are clueless. and almost incoherent. I have started looking for a better game for me and my wife, we wont be renewing. they have no idea what they are actually doing and refuse to listen to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okimbored Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Personally I've decided to move on, I'll keep playing, for now (I'm waiting for another game to come out) I'll keep my Sub, again, "for now" F2P stinks. They will NEVER get another penny from me for cartel packs, I've seen enough lies to learn my lesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Personally I've decided to move on, I'll keep playing, for now Same. Wife and I are downloading FFXIV right now. Never tried it before. Never felt the need to look elsewhere before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 He completely ignored the fact that making changes of this magnitude to a real money transaction item is tantamount to fraud. At the very least, it was a swindle plain and simple. At least we know where we stand with Bioware. Once they have our money, it's basically "Go screw yourselves, we'll change what we want and you'll just have to take it." Well...SCREW YOU Bioware! champions online just did the same sort of thing. and the players over there are debating just when they will shut it down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staavis_SC Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 champions online just did the same sort of thing. and the players over there are debating just when they will shut it down See, I would fully expect that sort of thing from Cryptic. They are as shady as they come, and being a former player of STO and Champions both, I'm not at all surprised by that. Up until this point, I never felt that way about Bioware. Sure, I disagreed with some things they do, or questioned designed choices, but I still trusted them as a business with who I conduct transactions. Not now. Probably never again. I don't trust them any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPharohEclip Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well, this is what happens when a bunch of cry babies get on the forums and complain about ****, they are acting like this thing really was destroying the economy and making crew skills useless. I still used my crew skills while I played the slot machine, hoping to get more certificates.. not because I gave a **** about jawa junk which didn't drop all that much to have an impact anyways.. Just a bunch of people coming in here over reacting the situation. Now the machines are not fun anymore, it is a waste of time... you never get **** , not even a green scrap metal. Yea , if jawa junk dropped I would use it, but that is not why I was playing the slots... I only really got like 5 augments out of that slot machine in maybe 3 days of an hour a day of use. It wasn't that serious. I was playing the slots to get more certificates so I could buy a few things I wanted off the contraband vendor.... Now it looks like I will probably never get another certificate out of that machine, and a new mount... big whoop , nobody will ever get it anyhow with the drop rates they got here... And where does he get off saying that you only have to put 750 credits in that machine? IT takes alot more than 750 credits to have a chance at winning anything.. probably more like dropping 1 mill credits you might get a jawa junk and a certificate.. Not even enough to buy a mount off the contraband vendor..... This is an outrage, and now they are just going to ignore the problem that they have created , instead of re adjusting this machine so it actually is a fun dynamic of the game.. Right now it is just a boring credit sink that gives you no reason to use it, because the odds of winning anything are damn near impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomlash Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I'd feel more charitable towards BioWare if they hadn't: -released a massively broken item without running the numbers as to its effect -posted patch notes indicating a moderate nerf to the item -released devastating nerf to the item DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED by the patch notes of the previous day (they said they'd buff the rep item drop rate, but they actually nerfed it slightly) -after forum uproar over nerf, made hasty excuse at a community event but didn't even acknowledge the controversy via any official forum post, thereby losing control of the messaging pooch = screwed // BioWare = losing confidence of fanbase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts