JPryde Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I am not in the least opposed to installing security. I am only opposed to not allow me the freedom to absolutely voluntarily turn this security feature off. I will promise you, that you will never ever see a complaint by me about having had an "accident" happen to me. And as I pointed out, the player who lost 6 million (the biggest loss to an accident that I ever heard off) does NOT ask for a mandatory irrevocable security as you ask for. He asks for a security measure which can be adjusted by any player as they deem fit.. And I wouldn't even mind, if that security would be set to "everything worth more than 100 credits" from the start, as long as I can turn it off or can set the treshhold so high that it will not affect my trades. You are trying to protect people who CAN protect themselves and do not want your protection. It's important (extremely important) to protect the bank accounts of players since credits are difficult to earn.... This is another statement I wish to challenge. I am raiding every day, I am not selling any crafts and I feel like credits are falling from the sky. There is absolutely no difficulty in gaining credits. Edited January 30, 2015 by JPryde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I am not in the least opposed to installing security. I am only opposed to not allow me the freedom to absolutely voluntarily turn this security feature off. I will promise you, that you will never ever see a complaint by me about having had an "accident" happen to me. And as I pointed out, the player who lost 6 million (the biggest loss to an accident that I ever heard off) does NOT ask for a mandatory irrevocable security as you ask for. He asks for a security measure which can be adjusted by any player as they deem fit.. And I wouldn't even mind, if that security would be set to "everything worth more than 100 credits" from the start, as long as I can turn it off or can set the treshhold so high that it will not affect my trades. You are trying to protect people who CAN protect themselves and do not want your protection. There already is several layers of security.. You get a purchase confirmation dialog box, most people disable this because it also is the same dialog on vendors. You can filter GTN listings by a price range. Really, why do you need more than this? Buying a whole set of wrenchs for your toolbox really isn't the best idea when you already have an adjustable wrench sitting right there in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Well here's a player reporting that he lost 6 million credits in a GTN accident. Not only that, another person in that same thread claims to have lost over 6 million credits in a GTN accident. That's kinda bad statistics for what's probably only 2 weeks time, wouldn't you say? Note your own use of the word "claims." And note again, assuming these things actually happened, these are not accidents in that they were beyond the control of the user. There is no way to "accidentally" pay more than one wants to pay on the GTN, as in "I clicked an item for 100k and 1 mil got deducted from my credit total." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblazer Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 While I understand the idea of trying to prevent accidents I am also a firm believer in having integrity and taking responsibility for your own actions. If you made a purchase by clicking through too quickly, no level of security will prevent that. While I feel that maybe just making the current system be more visible to what you are doing such as making the existing confirmation box simply highlight in red or another color the price you are paying if over a certain amount would be fine, make it stand out and may reduce some accidents but nothing can prevent accidents 100% of the time. Each person making a purchase needs to take the time, help themselves and read what they are doing before clicking OK. But forcing another pop up or something like that at all is not needed. I'm sorry but nothing they can do will be fool proof. Why? Because fools are so ingenious, they will find a way to still make the "accidental" purchase that this thread is suggesting on how to prevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnn Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Note your own use of the word "claims." ... Me using the the word "claims" was me being careful not to be mistaken for putting it forth as verified information. I'll just call that technical integrity and see if anyone gets the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Me using the the word "claims" was me being careful not to be mistaken for putting it forth as verified information Exactly. So are you basing your conclusions at least in part on unverified anecdotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnn Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Exactly. So are you basing your conclusions at least in part on unverified anecdotes? Since I have my own personal GTN experience to rely upon, along with a high level of technical understanding of how the software is working, I feel no need to verify any of that information. But you're free to go try to discredit the cold hard data if you like. It'd be an obvious waste of your time, because it's painfully obvious that the GTN's purchase confirmation feature is simply inadequate and that the reports are not only credible but extremely likely to be genuine. There are REAL reports of (major) GTN accidents in hand now, so what possible base of argument do you think is left? The need for Purchase Confirmation improvement is quite proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblazer Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 lol, I think this should be perfectly fix the problem, 1. Are you sure you want to purchase this item for x credits? a. choose yes then you get: 2. Are you really sure that you want to say yes to making this purchase item for x credits? a. yes, I'm sure 3. Now just wanted to confirm that you were sure that you were sure that you wanted to purchase this item x credits? a. Yes I'm really, sure. Then purchase is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Since I have my own personal GTN experience to rely upon, along with a high level of technical understanding of how the software is working, I feel no need to verify any of that information Your "technical understanding," even assuming it's legit, is irrelevant. You are still proposing a solution for a non-existent problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnn Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 I also saw a comment about someone losing 10+ million credits in a GTN accident a while back. I don't know about anyone else, but it'd probably take me at least 4 months to earn and save that many credits. Well considering the earn rate is probably maxing out around 150K/hour if you do dailies (and are experienced at them), we're talking about close to 70 hours of effort of credit grinding. SEVENTY HOURS. That would be averaging 30 minutes of dailies EVERY day for 4 months. And that's a generous estimate, because when I think about it, back when I actually tallied the monies from running the Black Hole dailies (including selling loot drops), it was only around 85K credits for about 45 minutes effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyltr Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I think the entire premise of OP's crusade is faulty. BW is under no obligation to protect people more than they are. With the same premise, if one person is stupid and walks into traffic, this premise would suppose that the government would be obligated to prevent 100% of people walking into the street. What is done? Nothing because its an acceptable loss. If someone can't read or understand a do not walk sign, or understand the difference between two numerals after a period and three numerals after a comma that is an acceptable loss. So far it feels like BW has thought about the "problem" and considers it acceptable losses. I don't really get why people think that BW is under any obligation to prevent them from doing dumb things. You walk into traffic you're gonna get hit and the city isn't going to station police at every intersection to make sure you don't do it again. Edited January 31, 2015 by Phyltr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnn Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Once you're willing to troll by using the term 'crusade' you're only accomplishing doing yourself a huge disservice, and have begun to slowly but surely make yourself an enemy towards reason and towards the rational point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Once you're willing to troll by using the term 'crusade' you're only accomplishing doing yourself a huge disservice, and have begun to slowly but surely make yourself an enemy towards reason and towards the rational point of view. Every reply that disagrees with you is not a troll. Your threads on this subject could reasonably be called a 'crusade' though I would prefer 'quixotic' considering the devs have already commented on this 'scam' which is now often softened to being an 'accident' but remains the same request. You are, evidently, pathologically unable to use all the tools already provided you in the game to sort and present the information in a manner to prevent these occurrences. Additionally, the extra layer of simple human attentiveness is being dismissed as well. You seek a solution to a problem that has been deemed to not exist. No matter how many times you call this a problem does not make it a problemin the developer's (or the other players who disagree with you) eyes. I get that YOU continue to think its an issue. And since YOU continue to post on the subject despite an overwhelmingly negative reception to your thoughts/concerns/ideas the response calling your continued actions a 'crusade' is an apt/fair comparison. And they aren't 'trolling'. They are disagreeing with you, and they, and many of the other players who have posted their complete lack of support for your solution to a non-existent problem just disagree with you. Now, if they start disagreeing with you on this issue in unrelated threads in an attempt to get you to post in that thread defening this (bad) idea... _then_ they are trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feargal Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Just stopping by to reiterate that a "mistake" is not an "accident." Faulty term leads to a faulty premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyltr Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Once you're willing to troll by using the term 'crusade' you're only accomplishing doing yourself a huge disservice, and have begun to slowly but surely make yourself an enemy towards reason and towards the rational point of view. You responded to a single word in my post and ignored the rest...it seems pretty clear you don't want to debate, you just want to shout as loudly as you can that you are correct and everyone else is wrong until you've berated people enough that they just roll their eyes and leave. I maintain the position that your premise that BW has a responsibility to protect its players is faulty and that these outliers do not present a significant enough issue. I maintain that these are acceptable losses and BW is under no obligation to hold your hand and make sure you don't do anything you'd regret. Again, why don't you have a personal police escort everywhere to make sure you don't harm yourself or others? Because that would be silly. The amount of time that the developers would need to spend to implement your solution is very likely much higher than the amount of money they would lose from people getting angry they mistook a comma for a period and unsubscribing. You also have to factor in people who would unsubscribe because of the added silliness of the GTN purchase process. I don't suspect that would be very high, but I suspect it would very closely mirror the amount they'd lose from people throwing a fit and unsubscribing because of a their own mistake. BW would almost certainly come out with a net loss from implementing your idea, not to mention that it would take away dev time from coding things that a majority of people would like to see. BW is under no obligation to hold your hand, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 This high level of devastating event as a result of the inadequacy of the Purchase Confirmation process is unacceptable. The Purchase Confirmation needs to be redesigned to be closer to 100% reliable to alleviate this hardship that player after player is forced to endure. Your hyperbole is as over-the-top as you constant repetition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well, your idea was laid out (in detail). The devs are able to read it. Many other players stated, that your solution would go way ahead of what is necessary and would even be a change for the worse for some players. If the ammount of players who see your proposed change as a change for the worse is larger than the ammount of players in favour of your idea, then it is the logical step not to implement your idea, no matter how convinced you are in its glorious usability. So with that in mind, we should stop this at this point, as you are not going to convince the "other people" and you obviously not even accept to step down only a fraction from what you see as the necessary measure. So how about, we now make new threads about the following problems (irony warning): 1- "Accidents" in reingineering important gear. 2- "Accidents" in overwriting better augments with older ones (do not let yourself be stopped by the warning message that is already in place... as it does not stay for 5 secs!!) 3- "Accidents" in selling expensive or even unique items. 4- "Accidents" with destroying expensive or even unique items (just a single popup is not enough protection!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rankyn Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 So how about, we now make new threads about the following problems (irony warning):5. "Accidents" in leaving off a 0 when listing your expensive item on the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 5. "Accidents" in leaving off a 0 when listing your expensive item on the GTN. Yeah, we should demand an additional mandatory popup for each 0 missing from 100 billion down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnn Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 This solution is obviously still needed. You can see all over the GTN where good samaritans are repeatedly posting a single unit of a material, for 1 BILLION credits which is impossible to overlook. No one would go to that much trouble every two days unless there was a REAL problem going on. To alleviate this problem and the hassle players are willing to deal with just to help alleviate part of that problem, this enhancement to the Purchase Alert dialog should be implemented so that accidental GTN purchases become a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anniahilus Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Necromancer raised the dead horse so he could beat it again. Let it go ... it's not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnn Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Necromancer raised the dead horse so he could beat it again. Let it go ... it's not going to happen. . You're not only weak at protecting other players, you're also very, very bad at math. . . . . Protecting players being, of course, the necessity of this suggestion. . Anyone not on board with that important and necessary purpose is nothing but a .CENSORED. . If there was no necessity for the game to protect players... there wouldn't be a Purchase Alert in the first place, now would there? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnn Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 The beauty of this solution is that then players don't have to worry about whether they clicked on a multi-million credit purchase on accident. The enhanced Purchase Alert will do all the work for them (how it's supposed to be actually). The popup will show the price in a bright impossible-to-miss color, and the 'OK' button won't be clickable when they immediately try to click it to dismiss the window. If the player had the Purchase Alert switched off, the Purchase Alert would pop up anyway because it's such an expensive item and warrants an alert... just in case the click was on accident. It might also be interesting to have a Preferences checkbox titled "Alert for purchases of stacks" that would cause a purchase alert to pop up when purchasing a stack of 2 or more items. It'd be OFF by default of course. The cost of protecting the playerbase from the random mistaken purchases that happen to unsuspecting players here and there on a regular basis... is that the entire playerbase will have to have the obligatory Purchase Alert for the more expensive purchases. I believe this is a small price to pay for peace of mind and a safe GTN environment. Just look at how many postings there are in the materials category for 1 billion credits, intentionally put there to make it impossible for anyone to accidentally buy any of the less obvious mega-overpriced stacks of materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 This solution is obviously still needed. Evidence needed. I did not see any thread and did not see anything in game suggesting that anyone did fall for any such "scam" and would support a suggestion like yours. Your claim is still as unsupported as it was on the first page. You are convinced that this change is needed. That much is totally fair. It does however not automatically become an universal truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekwalizer Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 1. Stop pulling statistics out of your fourth point of contact. 2. ALL failures are a direct result of the buyer not paying attention to what they are doing and this is in NO way Bioware's problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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