csmnstoica Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 When comparable gear and skill, the shield specialist loses 100% of the time to the other two disciplines. Its not even a fair contest. While Shield specialization harder hitting abilities top at 3-4k dmg (maybe 5k once in a full moon), its very common to take 11+k dmg from the Tactics/Plasmatechs. The defensive cool-downs are comparable and the shield/absorb does not compensate for the huge dmg disparity. There are numerous theorycrafters who proved that ION Cell reduces damage done by 20-30% instead of the 10% as per tool-tip. It is high time to correct this as its extremely tiresome to see me tickling a PT/T with low dmg while getting hit for over 10k constantly. It does not make me feel like a tank - au contraire. 0% chance to defeat some1 is bad design. You need to have at least 30% chance to defeat some1 to have a semblance of balance regardless of specc/role/gear/skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) When comparable gear and skill, the shield specialist loses 100% of the time to the other two disciplines. Its not even a fair contest. While Shield specialization harder hitting abilities top at 3-4k dmg (maybe 5k once in a full moon), its very common to take 11+k dmg from the Tactics/Plasmatechs. The defensive cool-downs are comparable and the shield/absorb does not compensate for the huge dmg disparity. There are numerous theorycrafters who proved that ION Cell reduces damage done by 20-30% instead of the 10% as per tool-tip. It is high time to correct this as its extremely tiresome to see me tickling a PT/T with low dmg while getting hit for over 10k constantly. It does not make me feel like a tank - au contraire. 0% chance to defeat some1 is bad design. You need to have at least 30% chance to defeat some1 to have a semblance of balance regardless of specc/role/gear/skill. The tooltip damage that people are going off is bugged and is saying a 20% penalty to damage. The attack only has a 10% penalty. Ion Storm does double the damage of a fully stacked Pulse Cannon, in half the time, with the same cooldown. Shield Specialist also gets a 35% resist chance when its battle focus is up, allowing said spec to negate a huge amount of damage the other 2 specs throw out in the first 15 seconds. Edited January 23, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Plasmatech shouldn't be hitting anyone for 11k. Plasmatech should never be used in a 1v1 and should never be used for any PvP you want to win in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenesi Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Maybe i'm misunderstanding, but aren't DPS supposed to kill everything that moves, tanks included? How else would you take them down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Maybe i'm misunderstanding, but aren't DPS supposed to kill everything that moves, tanks included? How else would you take them down? Actually no. Theoretically the way the trinity system is supposed to work in a 1v1 scenario is that tanks should always beat DPS, DPS should always beat healers, and healers should always beat tanks. In theory, however up until the past few patches it's been DPS beats everything 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxeDragoneth Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I have no problem beating the other two disciplines in 1v1 as a tank. It's close, but I can manage with proper cooldown rotations. I also hit 10k immolates in Pyro/Plasmatech so 11k isn't too farfetched... just very lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Actually no. Theoretically the way the trinity system is supposed to work in a 1v1 scenario is that tanks should always beat DPS, DPS should always beat healers, and healers should always beat tanks. In theory, however up until the past few patches it's been DPS beats everything 1v1. The trinity system is garbage, because it should all be player skill. The winner of any fight should be 90% the person behind the keyboard. Pyrotech is a dot heavy spec that puts out mostly elemental damage. That damage can't be shielded or mitigated, and it ignores armor completely. This is why they burn tank asses, get over it. Pyros die quickly to other single target damage specs. AP Has very little elemental damage, so everything they do can be mitigated by a good tank using their cooldowns intelligently. I've seen good tanks survive and win against AP, laughing at the fotm bads. It's a joy to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The trinity system is garbage, because it should all be player skill. The winner of any fight should be 90% the person behind the keyboard. Pyrotech is a dot heavy spec that puts out mostly elemental damage. That damage can't be shielded or mitigated, and it ignores armor completely. This is why they burn tank asses, get over it. Pyros die quickly to other single target damage specs. AP Has very little elemental damage, so everything they do can be mitigated by a good tank using their cooldowns intelligently. I've seen good tanks survive and win against AP, laughing at the fotm bads. It's a joy to watch. Oh please Pyro can't 1v1 a merc let alone a tank. Also as a addendum to my aforementioned statement, a tank should barely beat a DPS. But it still should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Oh please Pyro can't 1v1 a merc let alone a tank. Also as a addendum to my aforementioned statement, a tank should barely beat a DPS. But it still should. I dunno, Vanguards/Powertechs are weird in that their entire class is rock/paper/scissors: AP Beats Pyro due to AoE damage reduction and ridiculous burst, but is beaten by Shield Tech due to a 90% Kinetic Damage contribution, combined with Shield Tech being able to neuter APs defensive capabilities by cutting the self-heal value by 20% with Flame Burst. Pyro beats Shield Tech due to an 80% Elemental damage contribution with whats left of the damage having an unnaturally high crit rate anyway (which also bypasses shield chance), but its got no way to defend against the ridiculous burst of AP. Finally, Shield Tech DOES have a way to get past the ridiculous burst of AP, but its got the worst elemental defenses of all the tank classes - hell, Pyro almost has better elemental defenses than Shield Tech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Also keep in mind, ionized ignition and adrenalin fueled passive abilities are still borked on plasma tech. That probably doesn't change the outcome of a 1v1 duel, but it would make a pyrotech a LOT smoother and more survivable in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) The tooltip damage that people are going off is bugged and is saying a 20% penalty to damage. The attack only has a 10% penalty. Ion Storm does double the damage of a fully stacked Pulse Cannon, in half the time, with the same cooldown. Shield Specialist also gets a 35% resist chance when its battle focus is up, allowing said spec to negate a huge amount of damage the other 2 specs throw out in the first 15 seconds. Made different buids in pvp with shield tech in dps gear. Even with generator. The output of Ion Storm has guarantied ~9k were Pulse Gen might have 1200-1800k ticks . Actually produces more elemental dmg than any spec in game. Pyro falls for ST dps for the same reasons. Battle focus gets +35% defence chance not resist, in tooltip, so it s effective only against railshot. Edited January 25, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Made different buids in pvp with shield tech in dps gear. Even with generator. The output of Ion Storm has guarantied ~9k were Pulse Gen might have 1200-1800k ticks . Actually produces more elemental dmg than any spec in game. Pyro falls for ST dps for the same reasons. Battle focus gets +35% defence chance not resist, in tooltip, so it s effective only against railshot. Nope, its against everything. Tested against a sorc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digitus_Minimus Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Also keep in mind, ionized ignition and adrenalin fueled passive abilities are still borked on plasma tech. That probably doesn't change the outcome of a 1v1 duel, but it would make a pyrotech a LOT smoother and more survivable in PVP. well then lets look at the passive!!! defensive cooldowns given in the pyrotech / ap skill tree, lets start with Pyrotech: 15% dot reduction 2% internal / elemental reduction +30% damage reduction while Kolto is active + reducing its cooldown when taking damage (20 % selfheal if it is skilled with the shoulder cannon) AP: 30% aoe damage reduction 30% less damage from all source when stunned 30% defensive chance when activating sonic missile 3% passive defensive chance 20% chance to generate a shield that absorbs about 5-7k when taking damage that leasts up to 6 seconds and can occur every 10 seconds + reducing the cooldown of energy shield by 3 secs when taking damage (35% selfheal from shoulder cannon if skilled) if i look at that, AP sounds much more smoother than pyro, no matter against which class you play Edited January 26, 2015 by Digitus_Minimus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Nope, its against everything. Tested against a sorc I ll check that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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