Shout-Out to Maras who PVP

[Bryanseven]

Hey thanks for the shout out,,,and yeah playing carnage marauder right now is a little like crawling naked up a mountain of barbed wire and broken glass and when you finally reach the top...four seconds later you die.

 

Also Ilysia for class rep...pretty sure Gundarz quit.

[Nekrall]

LOL sounds like you never played a Mara before. Nobody was pushing accuracy to 100% and if you were that explains why you fail....

 

 

Wake me up when you find a class that has a dedicated rootbreak(with anti-Snare), two anti-snare counters, two roots and two snares(that counters getting snared).

 

Signature.

 

I used two initiative enhancements which pushed my accuracy to 99.14%. Rest power surge. The other capable marauders ran with either 2 like I did, or 3. With 3, accuracy was over 100%, around 100.15. Remember, Ataru form used to give 3% accuracy, and narrow hatred (carnage talent) gave 3% as well. Now there is no spec/utility option to increase accuracy for any class.

 

Rootbreaks for marauders: obliterate (smash), Force camo (heroic utility, 45 second cooldown), Predation (heroic utility, fury cost)

 

Marauder roots: force charge (can be parried with low accuracy), obliterate (can be parried with low accuracy), crippling slash (requires two uses for a 3 second root, and heroic utility).

 

Other classes completely outshine marauders in regard to mobility, control, and defensive capabilities. I would have to write an essay to explain this to you, and you wouldn't listen anyway. Many other classes even have blanket immunity to all control effects, or root immunity during the use of abilities which break roots (force speed, hydraulics). No other class needs to sacrifice damage for mobility, and no other class is forced to burn two heroic utilities on root breaks; one of which, causes the marauder to sacrifice damage to utilize.

 

Where can I find you on the leaderboards?

Edited January 22, 2015 by Nekrall

[L-RANDLE]

Please enlighten me on "all these classes that have more mobility".

 

Maras got just as much as everyone else, and again regardless of what U do, the overwhelming majority of Maras didn't stack accuracy that high, but I'm happy for you being in the scoreboard...

[MiaowZedong]

So you telling me a 91%+ CHANCE TO HIT is that much different from 93-94% CHANCE TO HIT or did the magical sorc drum up some Defense Rating CD?

 

Probability adds/=fixed percent adds.

 

And yeah, no wonder BW has issues ..

The increase in expected DPS from 91 to 94% accuracy is greater than the increased in expected DPS from 0 to 3% alacrity. The increase in expected burst is far more. And of course, it increases reliability of the rotation since attacts that miss don't proc anything (for Carnage that basically means if your Massacre misses, you can't move on with your rotation, you have to hit Massacre again). Additionally, all dual wielders benefit more from accuracy since the off-hand hits have lower accuracy so each percentage point of accuracy functions as a larger multiplier on the off-hand (which is particularly important for Carnage which gets the most off-hand damage of any spec).

 

So yes, the change is bad for Carnage.

 

Not that it makes a huge difference, mind you. It's just the "someone is wrong on the internet" effect that makes me correct you.

Edited January 22, 2015 by MiaowZedong

[Saikochoro]

That's what I was forgetting. Root break on camo. Thanks for reminding me.

[Nekrall]

Please enlighten me on "all these classes that have more mobility".

 

Maras got just as much as everyone else, and again regardless of what U do, the overwhelming majority of Maras didn't stack accuracy that high, but I'm happy for you being in the scoreboard...

 

The majority of marauders didn't use even 2 initiative enhancements? Right.

 

Flat accuracy for carnage marauders was 97%. That is higher than you get with 3 initiative enhancements currently. That is a huge drop considering defense rating has not come down.

 

Juggs: Unstoppable cc immunity, charge reset on push, charge cooldown reduction utility, chilling scream speed increase utility. If smash, obliterate is a root break in addition. Juggs also gained a usable range decrease on saber throw, and a 3 second root utility on the ability. Reliable ravage root paired with cc immunity. Intercede root break and leap.

 

Powertechs: Hydraulics. 1 masterful utility, 1 heroic utility. Gives hydraulics a 25 second cooldown with a 10 second uptime (15 second cooldown). 85% movement speed increase, immune to roots/slows for the duration. 2 hard stuns, 30m range on det/rail shot, grapple, utility to slow by 50% on flame burst/magnetic blast/flame sweep, skillfull tier.

 

Assassins: Force shroud blanket cc immunity except for leg shot/charge roots/low slash. 5 Second duration, reapplied when stealth with a masterful utility I believe. Force speed utility (masterful) 15 second cooldown, breaks roots on activation, immune to roots for duration. Deflection utility, immune to all control effects for the duration (12 seconds). Force slow, creeping terror root (madness), knockback root (utility).

 

Those are just the melee classes and I am sure I missed a few things. Very simple heavy handed immunities paired with either higher damage potential than marauders, more DcDs, or both. None of these classes need to sacrifice damage for mobility.

 

Marauders need to use two heroic utilities for their root breaks while other classes either have the ability built in, or at the masterful tier, or at the heroic or masterful tiers to increase the effectiveness.

 

The force camo root break is on a 45 second cooldown, this used to be standard for carnage.

 

The predation root break can be used at 30 stacks of fury; thus, sacrificing the use of berserk, and you are not immune to roots while predation is up.

 

Obliterate has a short range and is exclusive to smash.

 

Crippling slash (heroic utility) requires two uses to root for 3 seconds while assassins can do this from 30 meters while applying a DoT.

 

Even the ravage root marauders have is unreliable because if a player stands in a full marauder ravage they are a joke unless the mara is whitebarred.

 

Deadly throw was taken out of the game and given to juggs, while marauder's heroic utilities were significant portions of the tree, many of which should be standard to the ability (force camo should break roots without a utility point, brooding should be passive).

 

Marauders came out having less with the expansion since they were a class with 3 damage trees. Not a tanking, not a healing tree. They are the class which has to make sacrifices for mobility, the easiest class to kite with our root breaks in mind, and need mobility/defensive changes terribly.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Nekrall

[headshot_hendo]

The majority of marauders didn't use even 2 initiative enhancements? Right.

 

Flat accuracy for carnage marauders was 97%. That is higher than you get with 3 initiative enhancements currently. That is a huge drop considering defense rating has not come down.

 

Juggs: Unstoppable cc immunity, charge reset on push, charge cooldown reduction utility, chilling scream speed increase utility. If smash, obliterate is a root break in addition. Juggs also gained a usable range decrease on saber throw, and a 3 second root utility on the ability. Reliable ravage root paired with cc immunity. Intercede root break and leap.

 

Powertechs: Hydraulics. 1 masterful utility, 1 heroic utility. Gives hydraulics a 25 second cooldown with a 10 second uptime (15 second cooldown). 85% movement speed increase, immune to roots/slows for the duration. 2 hard stuns, 30m range on det/rail shot, grapple, utility to slow by 50% on flame burst/magnetic blast/flame sweep, skillfull tier.

 

Assassins: Force shroud blanket cc immunity except for leg shot/charge roots/low slash. 5 Second duration, reapplied when stealth with a masterful utility I believe. Force speed utility (masterful) 15 second cooldown, breaks roots on activation, immune to roots for duration. Deflection utility, immune to all control effects for the duration (12 seconds). Force slow, creeping terror root (madness), knockback root (utility).

 

Those are just the melee classes and I am sure I missed a few things. Very simple heavy handed immunities paired with either higher damage potential than marauders, more DcDs, or both. None of these classes need to sacrifice damage for mobility.

 

Marauders need to use two heroic utilities for their root breaks while other classes either have the ability built in, or at the masterful tier, or at the heroic or masterful tiers to increase the effectiveness.

 

The force camo root break is on a 45 second cooldown, this used to be standard for carnage.

 

The predation root break can be used at 30 stacks of fury; thus, sacrificing the use of berserk, and you are not immune to roots while predation is up.

 

Obliterate has a short range and is exclusive to smash.

 

Crippling slash (heroic utility) requires two uses to root for 3 seconds while assassins can do this from 30 meters while applying a DoT.

 

Even the ravage root marauders have is unreliable because if a player stands in a full marauder ravage they are a joke unless the mara is whitebarred.

 

Deadly throw was taken out of the game and given to juggs, while marauder's heroic utilities were significant portions of the tree, many of which should be standard to the ability (force camo should break roots without a utility point, brooding should be passive).

 

Marauders came out having less with the expansion since they were a class with 3 damage trees. Not a tanking, not a healing tree. They are the class which has to make sacrifices for mobility, the easiest class to kite with our root breaks in mind, and need mobility/defensive changes terribly.

 

Agreed

[PBoba]

No other class needs to sacrifice damage for mobility

 

Small correction: concealment operatives are in the same boat in this respect (for mobility read: running away to save your skin, and/or keeping on target). Largely the same boat, overall, except we can look after ourselves better in this respect.

 

Doesn't diminish your point though. Hopefully marauders get some baseline help with roots soon. The comparison of where different ACs get to spend their utility points is very unbalanced.

Edited January 23, 2015 by PBoba

[foxmob]

I'm not any good on one anyway, but my little experience PVPing at end game regs with mara told me very quickly that maintaining effective range on anyone was problematic. that said, when they do adjust mara mobility (which they most certainly should), I do hope they do something to curtail their burst. They still hurt like hell in carny if given half the chance, and they do have decent survivability. it just isn't functional survivability atm cuz they cannot use that up time to productively engage opponents the way VGs can.

[aq_swagga]

Buff please, back isn't strong enough!

http://assets.enjin.com/wall_embed_images/1421222646_1974-DPS-COMBAT.png

 

Jk i had 3 healers on my team, but a mobility and target control buff is needed. Stun immunity is out of the question, though root immunity tied to transcedence/predation or rebuke/cloak of pain via utility and bringing back our ranged root would help A LOT.

[Nekrall]

Small correction: concealment operatives are in the same boat in this respect (for mobility read: running away to save your skin, and/or keeping on target). Largely the same boat, overall, except we can look after ourselves better in this respect.

 

Doesn't diminish your point though. Hopefully marauders get some baseline help with roots soon. The comparison of where different ACs get to spend their utility points is very unbalanced.

 

Yeah, I left out operatives from the list because I'm not educated enough in regard to which utilities they have. Don't see too many dps ops even though they can put up some nice numbers now.

 

Do they have anything to allow root breaks on roll?

[DomiSotto]

Aww, hang in there, fireflies, it’ll get better. The guard always goes to you. And if you are on top of your game, hats off!

[calamatiesend]

Please enlighten me on "all these classes that have more mobility".

 

Maras got just as much as everyone else, and again regardless of what U do, the overwhelming majority of Maras didn't stack accuracy that high, but I'm happy for you being in the scoreboard...

 

Yes we did actually..... I guess you did not play ranked or any competitive pvp as a carnage mara. Nek is one of the most experienced pvp maras around, when he talks about his experiences they are pretty spot on.

[Saikochoro]

Yeah, I left out operatives from the list because I'm not educated enough in regard to which utilities they have. Don't see too many dps ops even though they can put up some nice numbers now.

 

Do they have anything to allow root breaks on roll?

 

Nope no root breaks on roll, which is good. They should not have root break on roll. We can cleanse some roots and have countermeasures for force roots. We have better mobility than maras, but do have to give up some damage for survivability. I'm totally fine with that though.

[L-RANDLE]

Yes we did actually..... I guess you did not play ranked or any competitive pvp as a carnage mara. Nek is one of the most experienced pvp maras around, when he talks about his experiences they are pretty spot on.

FYI I know "who he is" and I can read his sig:rak_03:.

but on a serious note:

 

1. Static nodes+small arena boxes~=mobility moot.

 

 

2.

..... that said, when they do adjust mara mobility (which they most certainly should), I do hope they do something to curtail their burst. They still hurt like hell in carny if given half the chance, and they do have decent survivability.

Between the lines, this means that the AC as a whole doesn't get baseline like that because the burst comparatively high. You can't have it both ways. In this current meta, you need to spec it.

 

3. Accuracy... If you want to argue removing it from the spec, fine, BUT, my response was pointing at someone thinking adding GEAR was somehow required now that it was removed. And no, that's false. Gear adds pale in comparison to the 6% add for Canies stance. You can't make that up reasonably with gear alone, so there is no point in trading it at these minor levels. Additionally, there is no way, in a WZ you can tell me that 91%(worst case) accuracy is anything substantially different than 100%. Its like surrendering when you have 18 and the dealer is showing a 6 or saying 56%/44% isn't a "coin flip" (for all the gamblers out there). There isn't enough globals (sample size) in a WZ to say otherwise.

 

4. Posting "Rating" or comparing a class to other classes KNOWN to have balance issues is almost equivalent to posting scoreboard numbers to justify whether something is ok or not. I know full well that Maras have issues, but considering they are not nearly as "bad" as other ACs, you can't blindly claim buffs are needed. The issues pre3.0 was energy management and survivability. One was somewhat resolved, one wasn't. Therein lies the problem.

 

/dropsmic

Edited January 23, 2015 by L-RANDLE

[foxmob]

Between the lines, this means that the AC as a whole doesn't get baseline like that because the burst comparatively high. You can't have it both ways. In this current meta, you need to spec it.

 

sorry. maybe it's just late, and I went back to work today, but I don't understand what you're saying here. can you give it another go? (not trolling)

[gofortheko]

Playing a Mara/Sent is the biggest lol in the game atm.

[Nekrall]

FYI I know "who he is" and I can read his sig:rak_03:.

but on a serious note:

 

1. Static nodes+small arena boxes~=mobility moot.

 

 

2.

Between the lines, this means that the AC as a whole doesn't get baseline like that because the burst comparatively high. You can't have it both ways. In this current meta, you need to spec it.

 

3. Accuracy... If you want to argue removing it from the spec, fine, BUT, my response was pointing at someone thinking adding GEAR was somehow required now that it was removed. And no, that's false. Gear adds pale in comparison to the 6% add for Canies stance. You can't make that up reasonably with gear alone, so there is no point in trading it at these minor levels. Additionally, there is no way, in a WZ you can tell me that 91%(worst case) accuracy is anything substantially different than 100%. Its like surrendering when you have 18 and the dealer is showing a 6 or saying 56%/44% isn't a "coin flip" (for all the gamblers out there). There isn't enough globals (sample size) in a WZ to say otherwise.

 

4. Posting "Rating" or comparing a class to other classes KNOWN to have balance issues is almost equivalent to posting scoreboard numbers to justify whether something is ok or not. I know full well that Maras have issues, but considering they are not nearly as "bad" as other ACs, you can't blindly claim buffs are needed. The issues pre3.0 was energy management and survivability. One was somewhat resolved, one wasn't. Therein lies the problem.

 

/dropsmic

 

Paraphrasing: You can't claim buffs are needed by accurately comparing them to other melee classes, and proving that they are in a bad spot. Righhhhhhhhhhhhtttttt.

 

As for accuracy, yes there is a huge difference between 91% and 97% flat for a spec that uses primarily white damage, an off-hand, and no cooldown to increase accuracy.

 

That is a flat damage nerf of 6%. At 91%, an inquisitor has a 19% chance to parry every attack. Other classes have a 14% chance to parry without the use of any DcDs. Yes, 6% is a substantial difference.....it is a difference of 6%. Suddenly everything dependent on RNG now doesn't matter? Let's all run around with 1% crit chance because " there is no way, in a WZ you can tell me that 1%(worst case) crit is anything substantially different than 20%".

 

No reading comprehension, no desire to improve or expand your knowledge of the game, just stuck in your little bubble.

 

I'll leave you with a parting gift.

 

Edited January 23, 2015 by Nekrall

[aq_swagga]

Here's a couple fun screenshots to add to the thread. Nothing too impressive, I don't take a lot of solo/4v4 screens, guess I should start.

 

Both regs, one reg arena vs 2 healers. Good situations for damage. Some maras told me they have been able to pull 3k, not too sure if that's true since I haven't seen screens, or the conditions where they did so. Still, a lot of classes can pull close to 3k, or 3k+ in legitimate ranked games.

 

Here you go

 

http://i.imgur.com/9MOV3KJ.jpg?1

 

http://i.imgur.com/HEOGI83.jpg?1

 

Very nice, 2400 dps is quite a lot for maras/sents these days! I don't really like Concentration/Fury, so i haven't really bothered to play it. Pretty much exclusively playing combat as of right now.

I have not been able to break 2k in combat yet, although I would love to see high carnage/combat dps screenshots from people!

 

That video is hysterically accurate!

Edited January 23, 2015 by aq_swagga
THAT VIDEO LOL

[JeffrenBrek]

You the real MVPs.

[Zadtro]

Group speed boost from mara is really useful when a team is interested in objectives, the only problem is if you are in a warzone without a tank and healer you just get kill farmed xD

[L-RANDLE]

Paraphrasing: You can't claim buffs are needed by accurately comparing them to other melee classes, and proving that they are in a bad spot. Righhhhhhhhhhhhtttttt.

 

As for accuracy, yes there is a huge difference between 91% and 97% flat for a spec that uses primarily white damage, an off-hand, and no cooldown to increase accuracy.

 

That is a flat damage nerf of 6%. At 91%, an inquisitor has a 19% chance to parry every attack. Other classes have a 14% chance to parry without the use of any DcDs. Yes, 6% is a substantial difference.....it is a difference of 6%. Suddenly everything dependent on RNG now doesn't matter? Let's all run around with 1% crit chance because " there is no way, in a WZ you can tell me that 1%(worst case) crit is anything substantially different than 20%".

 

No reading comprehension, no desire to improve or expand your knowledge of the game, just stuck in your little bubble.

 

I'll leave you with a parting gift.

 

 

Or maybe you can learn, read it slowly. that. just. about.every. single. attack. in this game has a base 100%+1% accuracy. Whether white or yellow... I know dat math doh!

 

So basically your entire last paragraph is invalid since you don't even understand that basic concept.

 

As for the first part, you compared three AC, out of the 8, how about compared to the rest? Yeah sounds like to me they are one of the more "mobile" ACs in the game.

 

 

U gon learn to-day...

 

@foxmob

 

It's similar to swinging a hammer with two hands or swinging a sledgehammer, with one arm tied behind your back. If you make contact with the hammer it hurts, if you make contact with the sledge it more than hurt. In other word, if you free up their mobility to Jugg/Sin levels, it's like letting them use two hands on the sledgehammer... No bueno...

Edited January 23, 2015 by L-RANDLE

[AngusFTW]

Watchman/anni will do 3k+ with the correct game IMO cause yolo dots i've personally done 2.7/2.8+ a few times.. The other specs can both do over 2k pretty easily as well. Done it a few times as combat... Any experienced sentinel/mara player will do these numbers if they the majority hadnt quit the class xD..

 

Just need dem heals but its kinda always been a bit like that even before 3.0.. ;P

 

Problem is other classes do the same stuff except better... why take a carnage/combat over a ap pt for example? or a watchman over serenity? ;_;

 

Also 2k isnt actually that much anymore all dps classes can do past 2k in pvp.. i mean when things are parsing way above 4k in pve it's to be expected.. I mean i got excited about 2k in the first week of 3.0 maybe The people that say "x class is fine" then posts a ss of them doing like 1.6k dps is always a laugh..

Edited January 23, 2015 by AngusFTW

[Nekrall]

Or maybe you can learn, read it slowly. that. just. about.every. single. attack. in this game has a base 100%+1% accuracy. Whether white or yellow... I know dat math doh!

 

So basically your entire last paragraph is invalid since you don't even understand that basic concept.

..

 

No, all white damage for marauders runs off melee accuracy. The only move that a carnage marauder has with 100%+ accuracy is devastating blast. The reason for this is that it runs off force/tech accuracy, which is baseline 10% higher than melee/ranged.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Nekrall

[L-RANDLE]

No, all white damage for marauders runs off melee accuracy. The only move that a carnage marauder has with 100%+ accuracy is devastating blast. The reason for this is that it runs off force/tech accuracy, which is baseline 10% higher than melee/ranged.

 

Yes, BUT, there are two classifications of "melee accuracy", and there only there, you shall find the master.

 

Regards,

Shonuff