DrWeebs Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I've finally decided to main my sorc, as lightning spec is so fun to play. I thought it would be nice to have a thread with discussions on various things on how to get the most out of this spec in PVP. A few major points of discussion I wanted to bring up: Min/Maxing Gear - Augments: Mainstat vs. Power - Crit Chance: What is optimal? Since we have autocritting thundering blasts is going full power viable? - Surge DR, still worth going past given autocritting nature of our highest hitting skill? Rotation - What to use as filler rotation after Affliction>TB > Chain Lightning > Lightning Flash > Crushing Darkness... Lightning bolt? Force Lightning? Shock? I realize that we can get 2 free lightning bolts if using force speed, but assuming I'm saving that for kiting, should I hard cast lightning bolt? Channel force lightning? Shock can be useful if on the move still... I'm still looking for that optimal damage. Various 1v1 strats vs.: - Hatred Sins - AP PT's - Conceal Operatives - Vengeance Juggernauts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Check ktaps guide on dulfy. It is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTap Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Check ktaps guide on dulfy. It is spot on. I appreciate that! However, I don't really go into PvP in my guide at all as I'm neither the best pvper nor did I have enough time to do an entire pvp guide. The basic rotation and priority lists should be similar enough though. @OP, never use Force Lightning Edited January 22, 2015 by KTap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 OK let me elaborate a bit more. See KTap's guide for gearing BUT in pvp you need 0 accuracy. It should give you an idea of what is a good direction to gear your sorc. Also see KTap's guide for rotations. He explains them well and why things happen. This will give you a good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of your abilities, what is an optimal rotation and why is that. So yes no FL under ling. Also without double proc utility shock is definitely worse than bolt, it still can be used as a "finisher" sometimes being instant or if you have nothing better to do on the move. Some further differences are: Crushing darkness is not always possible. FS might be used more (or less) depending on the situation. Further points: - You are responsible for your survivability, particularly when there is no healer or healer is dead. - A lot of things is situational, so understanding your highest damage rotation is a good thing to have, but it will not always maintained as other things take priority (run, heal, delay your burst, etc.). Utilities: There are two that are must in pvp for ling: - Emersion - Force mobility for the rest I take: - tempest mastery - +3% damage reduction - +10% healing received - kb root - corrupted barrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarlson Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I have found that on my main quickbar I have room for one extra ability. Even with the chain shock it does less average damage than FL. Being instant still isn't useful since we have so much mobility now one extra instant in this case is simply a waste of a global. FL on the other hand in PVP can serve as a second 50% slow if your force slow is on CD and being at 35m still serves as a convenient interrupt if nothing else is up. It has some limited utility in PVP and therefore should be on your hotbar. It is not in your DPS rotation but the 50% slow is useful at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWeebs Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) So, lightning bolt looks like it is a ~1.4s hard cast with my current alacrity. It does ~half of the damage of a fully channeled force lightning which is ~2.8s. I was too lazy to do the full numbers, but essentially its either a hard cast or a channel for similar damage. The differences between the two that I see are: Slow: LB 30%, FL 50% Procs: LB can proc Chain lightning if it has been > 10s since last proc Mechanic: LB requires a hard cast (ignoring the free ones from force speed), FB is an instant effect but a channel. My issue with LB in highly contested PVP is that there is so much CC and so much mobility in PVP right now, getting off a hard cast is becoming increasingly more difficult. So, I will get to 1.2s on my LB and get stunned/interrupted/knocked back/LOS'd and I wasted 1.2s of time. With FL, I still get half of that channel before being cc'd/LOS'd. Also, the proc for chain lightning is only available every 10s, and I have a thundering blast every 9s + 1.4s hard cast, so I shouldn't need LB to proc CL. I noticed my DPS in both regular and ranked PVP went up slightly when I was using CL as my last resort filler (TB > CD (proc) > FL > CL > LB (proc) > CL, and using FS for AOE situations). When I'm allowed to free-cast LB seemed to be slightly better, but people recognize me/and I'm a sorc so I get marked and then hard-casting becomes very difficult to pull off sometimes. Am I missing something? I'm really new to this class, and don't usually play casters in MMO's, and I'm also just super bad so it is very possible I am missing something Edited January 22, 2015 by DrWeebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarlson Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) With force mobility you will rarely have to stand still for anything but FL including LB. It has other things it can proc such as alacrity, CL and force regen, will frequently proc to be instant from FS and also being dmged. I cant count the # of times I have cast LB 2 or 3 times in a row due to being hit. LB>CL>LB>LB or something like that as it procs so much. I cannot find anything hard in the few seconds I had to search but I would swear there is no rate limiter on procing it with how much it is up and instant cast. LB is great, cast it in place of FL and use FL for a second slow or quick interrupt on a cap. Found it, every 8 seconds. LB>CL>LB is such a frequent cast for me though all instant. Then lightning flash is up by then or TB. There is really no room for FL in the DPS rotation. It does nothing for you and receives no buffs. Only the slow is useful for utility. Also forgot LB procs forked lightning as well and the chance doubles under the effects of polarity shift. I think it also lowers the CD of PS by 1 every cast as well with PVP set bonus. Edited January 22, 2015 by skarlson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWeebs Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 With force mobility you will rarely have to stand still for anything but FL including LB. It has other things it can proc such as alacrity, CL and force regen, will frequently proc to be instant from FS and also being dmged. I cant count the # of times I have cast LB 2 or 3 times in a row due to being hit. LB>CL>LB>LB or something like that as it procs so much. I cannot find anything hard in the few seconds I had to search but I would swear there is no rate limiter on procing it with how much it is up and instant cast. LB is great, cast it in place of FL and use FL for a second slow or quick interrupt on a cap. Found it, every 8 seconds. LB>CL>LB is such a frequent cast for me though all instant. Then lightning flash is up by then or TB. There is really no room for FL in the DPS rotation. It does nothing for you and receives no buffs. Only the slow is useful for utility. Also forgot LB procs forked lightning as well and the chance doubles under the effects of polarity shift. I think it also lowers the CD of PS by 1 every cast as well with PVP set bonus. Alright, I'm gonna try this tonight and just take FL off my bar to force myself out of what sounds like possibly a bad habit, and use LB instead. Thanks for the tips. Now, about those hatred sins... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarlson Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I actually just returned from a hiatus so can't help you there. I haven't faced enough to even be motivated to think how do I face this particular discipline. A lot has changed since I played last with 3.0 rollout. Still getting comfortable with the new disciplines and still need to level some other characters such as my 55 mara. Much of what I have observed so far has been positive though. I think sorc healing is in a great spot for instance. Almost everything is castable on the move. I was doing 14-1500 hps without really being that good last night. I'm pretty certain I suck at healing since it has changed so much and I've only done a few matches give or take as heals so far. Can't wait to get normalized in "feel" for the role. Edited January 22, 2015 by skarlson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warstory Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I am on the fense I like how it feels in the rotation just to bad bonus dmg doesn't apply to it. It would be the perfect filler skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWeebs Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 With force mobility you will rarely have to stand still for anything but FL including LB. It has other things it can proc such as alacrity, CL and force regen, will frequently proc to be instant from FS and also being dmged. I cant count the # of times I have cast LB 2 or 3 times in a row due to being hit. LB>CL>LB>LB or something like that as it procs so much. I cannot find anything hard in the few seconds I had to search but I would swear there is no rate limiter on procing it with how much it is up and instant cast. LB is great, cast it in place of FL and use FL for a second slow or quick interrupt on a cap. Found it, every 8 seconds. LB>CL>LB is such a frequent cast for me though all instant. Then lightning flash is up by then or TB. There is really no room for FL in the DPS rotation. It does nothing for you and receives no buffs. Only the slow is useful for utility. Also forgot LB procs forked lightning as well and the chance doubles under the effects of polarity shift. I think it also lowers the CD of PS by 1 every cast as well with PVP set bonus. BTW, do you use crushing darkness after lightning flash lowers its cast time? It's usually 1.2-1.4s cast time after FL depending on alacrity at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarlson Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I do when I remember but often I forget. Sometimes there isn't time for a standing cast so I have to skip it anyways. If I can fit it in I will do so though, if I remember. Still getting used to the new discipline priority so I don't always. I am also not certain if that is optimal. I just kind of assumed it was but I don't remember if it was in the list of priorities on dulfy or not when I was looking for advice on that kind of stuff from the math people. Edited January 22, 2015 by skarlson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebutthat Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Min/Maxing Gear - Augments: Mainstat vs. Power - Crit Chance: What is optimal? Since we have autocritting thundering blasts is going full power viable? - Surge DR, still worth going past given autocritting nature of our highest hitting skill? Going full power is viable. I go main. It makes me feel warm inside knowing I have a slightly better chance of getting crits on all those afflictions I tab out, fork lightnings that are procing, and for all those people grouped up in force storm. At the end of the day I think the damage output is going to be such a small difference based on what i've read from the number crunchers. Rotation - What to use as filler rotation after Affliction>TB > Chain Lightning > Lightning Flash > Crushing Darkness... Lightning bolt? Force Lightning? Shock? I realize that we can get 2 free lightning bolts if using force speed, but assuming I'm saving that for kiting, should I hard cast lightning bolt? Channel force lightning? Shock can be useful if on the move still... I'm still looking for that optimal damage. I use Force Storm as a filler. Affliction->TB->Chain Lightning ->LF->CD->Force Storm. If your targets move, it's an easy reclick until your ready to dump more damage with your main rotation. In PVP, I only hard cast LB if I'm somewhere free casting and/or I have polarity shift activated as it causes the fork. I rarely/if ever use shock. Various 1v1 strats vs.: - Hatred Sins - AP PT's - Conceal Operatives - Vengeance Juggernauts I mean, all these classes you need to kite. Force Slow and get ready to speed away, use knock backs, and don't forget to get a WW cast off. That's an undisturbed TB! Just knowing the classes capabilities will help you out a lot. With sins, just watch for their phase walk and when they stealth out. Immediately start dark heal spams. With Juggs, watch for enraged defense. Either Whirlwind if they're not dotted with affliction or just use your bubble. AP PTs, it's all about surviving those 7 shoulder rockets. Get static barrier up, don't sprint too soon if you're pulled (a lot like to carbonize you immediately after), and to hammer out as much damage as possible and bubble as close to 0% as possible. If you do it right, you're bubble will get you to full pretty much and you can throw another blast at them. If you can get them to blow their DCD's before you barrier, you're gold. Concealment Ops are pretty much on par with Deception Sins. In my opinion, best Dueling classes in the game. You're going to get opened up on, know that they have multiple means to cc/slow you, and it's really going to come down to your burst vs theirs. If they stealth, sap, out of combat heal...it's really going to just be GG, because they can dictate when to reengage the fight, and a lot of their important cd's are way shorter than Force Barrier, so you won't get a second one. These are some things I do, and I'm pretty successful in PVP. Although as of late i'm finding I still prefer madness in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxei Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Is it worth it to have shock in your rotation with the shock utility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebutthat Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I don't.I don't use shock at all...so I don't take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarlson Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I don't.I don't use shock at all...so I don't take it. Piggyback. CL, instant LB and LF are often up at the same time. By time you get through all of that TB will be up again as will CD. You will have time for a stand still LB here plus CD. Most of the time you should be moving. Shock with the talent does actually do more average damage than LB but comes with none of the perks of LB and the average damage is only part of the story since 50% of the time it will be less damage. Not worth it imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurestone Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I don't.I don't use shock at all...so I don't take it. Shock breaks up your rotation and cast queue, and it's energy damage so it gets heavily mitigated by armor and def/abs stats. If you absolutely need kill the target right now, like it has to be this GCD otherwise the target will recover, and none of your instants are off CD, just use Force Slow. Believe it or not, Force Slow can crit for 4.3k on a well geared toon. If it doesn't crit it still gives a 2k-ish kinetic damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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