Joonbeams Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The first iteration of slots were broken. That simply cannot be disputed. You don't even need metrics. It has nothing to do with forum whining (we're not THAT powerful people). It has nothing to do with getting "rich" in-game. Those slots drastically broke drop rates for crafting missions and rendered the crafting missions in-game totally pointless. The guaranteed junk yields from slots for the relatively low costs literally DESTROYED an entire aspect of the game (crafting/crafting missions). Anyone who cannot see that this was a game-breaker is in complete denial. I cannot help you. But that can all be true and it still be true that the "fix" broke something else. Current slot yields now render slot machines totally pointless. Even for the exceedingly rare mount (that's not better, and may be worse even than what's in game) there is no real point in playing slots right now (no this isn't like Vegas where there is a rare chance at a windfall). Slot machines, now, today, are useless. But it's unlikely this will remain the case. This current fix was crucial to get done ASAP or risk permanently damaging a core game-mechanic. But if BW wants slots to be at all enjoyable or serve any purpose going forward, there will need to be another "fix" to make it so there can be something to play for: blue gear and items, maybe rare purple items and gear, mounts, maybe even credit booms, companion gifts, etc. If there is no chance at winning anything other than maxed-out reputation, then the slots are totally pointless. My guess is this will change going forward. Lastly, for those who say they were "swindled," I just...well...just...smh. Your argument goes like this: "I paid real-life money, for a chance to win an in-game/fake money item. I did that because I saw that I could get a ton of fake money or mats with it." You literally gambled real money for a chance at an in-game item that could give fake money. (And you didn't use fake money to buy the item in-game, you had to use real money?) Umkay. But you lose regardless. Those who bought the packs BEFORE Eric's 'working as intended' post, did so at great risk that this may be a broken mechanic and with no official word from BW that it was not. It certainly "felt' broken to those with a clue (see above). But in any event, you cannot claim that BW "swindled" you into anything at this point. Those who bought the CM packs AFTER the post conveniently omit this core 'caveat emptor' disclaimer: ... With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun! -eric You (alllegedly) spent your real money KNOWING changes were coming. There was no grey area here - Eric said changes would be made. So you cannot claim to be swindled now that changes were made. But lastly, even if you allege to have been swindled nonetheless, you had several days to rack up stacks and stacks and stacks of junk, certificates, and piles of credits. So, at what point do we say you got your "value"? You've likely already gotten millions of fake money credits worth of stuff (remember that was your goal - to get fake money for your real money). Tl;dr - slots were breaking a core game mechanic and needed fixing. That's now fixed, but slots are worthless. Slots now need fixing again to make them have some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 that does bring up a good point, I mean I knew this was probably going to be nerfed from the start, and that post, though it said it WAS INTENDED, did say they will make changes accordingly, but in the MEANTIME to have fun. I am not trying to offend anyone or sound condescending but I do not understand why people spent so much real life money for this, I just used the ones on a guildship yesterday knowing it was about to be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Did you miss Eric's post where he listed the changes that were to be made, but failed to mention the changes to Certs or the increased loss chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Did you miss Eric's post where he listed the changes that were to be made, but failed to mention the changes to Certs or the increased loss chance? Yes, but this is a separate point. I already conceded that the changes here broke the slots completely. I expect that won't last. Still not "swindling" tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafr Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 core game mechanic... What core game mechanic are you talking about? The operations glitches, the drops, stucks, lag, disconnects, or it's almost nonexistent craft. You might be thinking about EVE, for example, when you talk about craft, not swtor. 0/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Wow guys, we definitely needed another thread because the other 20 are not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Clearly this post was partially directed at me for my thread so I'll ask you one thing. When Musco announced the changes coming today and stated that the Jawa junk drop rate would change, did he also show that the overall fail rate would almost double and cert drop rates would also be nerfed into oblivion? Nope. Kinda left out those points wouldn't you agree? Now please, tell me again how I spent real money on something in game for 'fake' stuff is wrong. Because you know, I'm the only one who does this and I need to learn apparently. You admit that the nerf was too much but people like myself don't have a right to complain about it. I'm a tad confused by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksilvante Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 A greater point could be made that the entire mess was not more than to keep players having a fit about the stuff the devs are NOT fixing i.e. bugged missions come to mind (*cough* Big Guns to name one of the smallest). To me that is what people should be bent about, not the soon to be fixed nerf to their money makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halcyon_havoc Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) You don't speak for all of us. We knew and understood the junk rate needed to be adjusted. I don't think anyone's disputing that bit. I didn't buy it to make "fake money" but for the intended purpose to help with crafting mats and rep and Certs to buy the embargoed items I wouldn't otherwise have access to without spending MORE cash in the CM. But maybe that is the point. Edited January 21, 2015 by halcyon_havoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danw Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The slot machine was not broken, they even said that, LOL The issue is 2 parts, 1. Jawa Vendors selling blue and purple Grade 11's. 2. Slot machine jawa item drops didn't need to be changed, only sorted properly... ...instead of a random green, blue, purple, it needed to be 70% green, 20% blue, 10% purple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarathAnno Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I fail to see how having easy access to raw materials hurts crafting? I know I for one did more crafting as the result of the slot machines rather then less. What it hurt was people who made credits farming mats and people who had stockpiled mats at higher prices. But if you were converting mats into goods then it probably helped you. True it drove down prices but I was able to more then make up for it in volume. Now an argument could be made that it made it to easy to gear up when you hit 60. But since you can easily afford a whole set of 186 gear the moment you ding if you save your basic coms and Bioware just started handing out whole sets of 192 companion gear for doing an easy weekly I don't think that holds much water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 core game mechanic... What core game mechanic are you talking about? The operations glitches, the drops, stucks, lag, disconnects, or it's almost nonexistent craft. You might be thinking about EVE, for example, when you talk about craft, not swtor. 0/10. Troll fail. Try again. Crafting is woven into every aspect of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 core game mechanic... What core game mechanic are you talking about? The operations glitches, the drops, stucks, lag, disconnects, or it's almost nonexistent craft. You might be thinking about EVE, for example, when you talk about craft, not swtor. 0/10. Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Clearly this post was partially directed at me for my thread so I'll ask you one thing. When Musco announced the changes coming today and stated that the Jawa junk drop rate would change, did he also show that the overall fail rate would almost double and cert drop rates would also be nerfed into oblivion? Nope. Kinda left out those points wouldn't you agree? Now please, tell me again how I spent real money on something in game for 'fake' stuff is wrong. Because you know, I'm the only one who does this and I need to learn apparently. You admit that the nerf was too much but people like myself don't have a right to complain about it. I'm a tad confused by this. Didn't notice your specific thread. Honestly. To your first question tho, I've already conceded that the fix broke something else. But you didn't spend real money to get a greater chance at more certificates, right? Let's keep it real. To your second point, no one is saying its wrong to spend real money. We all (most) do it. I'm specifically addressing the point that some make that they were "swindled". That's ridiculous on its face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 t. I already conceded that the changes here broke the slots completely. congrats on joining the ranks of the humble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I fail to see how having easy access to raw materials hurts crafting? I know I for one did more crafting as the result of the slot machines rather then less. What it hurt was people who made credits farming mats and people who had stockpiled mats at higher prices. But if you were converting mats into goods then it probably helped you. True it drove down prices but I was able to more then make up for it in volume. Now an argument could be made that it made it to easy to gear up when you hit 60. But since you can easily afford a whole set of 186 gear the moment you ding if you save your basic coms and Bioware just started handing out whole sets of 192 companion gear for doing an easy weekly I don't think that holds much water. I agree with most of this. I would just point out that there is no reason to run a single crafting mission with v1.0 of slots. None. The math was clear that you get higher yields for less time/money BY FAR from slots. Given that the devs spent a great deal of time and money instituting a crafting system (yes, that's part of this game) and economy, slots in v1.0 were clearly rendering pointless all that dev work and gameplay (yes, it's gameplay for many here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 congrats on joining the ranks of the humble. That was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 The slot machine was not broken, they even said that, LOL The issue is 2 parts, 1. Jawa Vendors selling blue and purple Grade 11's. 2. Slot machine jawa item drops didn't need to be changed, only sorted properly... ...instead of a random green, blue, purple, it needed to be 70% green, 20% blue, 10% purple I don't disagree in theory. But frankly, I'm not sure of any way to address the crafting missions concerns without a major nerf to drops. And it's not just about grade 11s. It was far to easy to get any level mat with the slots. Anyway this point isn't my main gripe. My main issue is to show that the slots can be BOTH broken in v1.0 and broken (for a different reason) in the v1.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just want to know why the folks with the Wookie avatars are the reasonable ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSStember Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Very well said, Joon. Nice post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyTremor Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Great Point on One Condition: Put a CAP on GTN. It is hurting gameplay having to spend half your gametime farming for credits to pay the astronomical prices that are placed on GTN for Hilts, Mods, Enhancements. If you did this I would see less of a problem with nerfing the Slot Machine. But, heaven help, you can do something for the majority of the community rather than the minority of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Great Point on One Condition: Put a CAP on GTN. It is hurting gameplay having to spend half your gametime farming for credits to pay the astronomical prices that are placed on GTN for Hilts, Mods, Enhancements. If you did this I would see less of a problem with nerfing the Slot Machine. But, heaven help, you can do something for the majority of the community rather than the minority of it. price fixing never fixes anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwarzchild Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I fail to see how having easy access to raw materials hurts crafting? I know I for one did more crafting as the result of the slot machines rather then less. What it hurt was people who made credits farming mats and people who had stockpiled mats at higher prices. But if you were converting mats into goods then it probably helped you. True it drove down prices but I was able to more then make up for it in volume. Now an argument could be made that it made it to easy to gear up when you hit 60. But since you can easily afford a whole set of 186 gear the moment you ding if you save your basic coms and Bioware just started handing out whole sets of 192 companion gear for doing an easy weekly I don't think that holds much water. This is on point in my opinion. It didn't break anything, it added another avenue to get materials. If you were still leveling you could level and use the crew skill missions. If you had nothing to do you could farm your fun box. All in all, it made crafting way more accessible to the masses. This open door access to crafting hurt the "core" gameplay of a small portion of the community who then decided to break the internet just as we're doing today about it. They got what they wanted. However... "But it's unlikely this will remain the case. This current fix was crucial to get done ASAP or risk permanently damaging a core game-mechanic. But if BW wants slots to be at all enjoyable or serve any purpose going forward, there will need to be another "fix" to make it so there can be something to play for: blue gear and items, maybe rare purple items and gear, mounts, maybe even credit booms, companion gifts, etc. If there is no chance at winning anything other than maxed-out reputation, then the slots are totally pointless. My guess is this will change going forward." OP I think this is a really good compromise. But watch out if you start on the path of gear crafters will again be up in arms because they can't sell that stuff anymore. I would like to see the jawa junk included to some degree, but that's just me. I really like the credit booms, comp gifts, and mounts. I definitely like those prize ideas. I'd +1 this as a great compromise. First constructive idea I've seen all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLazarillo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Great Point on One Condition: Put a CAP on GTN. It is hurting gameplay having to spend half your gametime farming for credits to pay the astronomical prices that are placed on GTN for Hilts, Mods, Enhancements. If you did this I would see less of a problem with nerfing the Slot Machine. But, heaven help, you can do something for the majority of the community rather than the minority of it. Caps on the GTN just means people will sell their items via methods other than the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Tl;dr - slots were breaking a core game mechanic and needed fixing. That's now fixed, but slots are worthless. Slots now need fixing again to make them have some point. Almost no one missed these points. You clearly have not read any of the other 27,987 threads on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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